[sage-devel] Re: Problem reading this list with slrn
Dear Dima, Indeed it now works. I didn't change anything, just tried again. So, problem solved... Thank you! Simon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/c0138de5-d1bd-4563-a165-03565650a398%40googlegroups.com.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: drop python2 compatibility in 9.1 ?
On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 2:37 AM Matthias Koeppe wrote: > > On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 12:01:42 PM UTC-5, Frédéric Chapoton wrote: >> >> So here is my proposal. >> >> * Starting from now, we allow ourselves to move on, using 9.1 betas and >> further releases for external python3 updates, including switch to ipython7, >> which seems to me the most urgent matter. But we also do not introduce >> python3-only code in our own code base if we can avoid it. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this, but it might be agreeable to me: I'm completely okay with adding Python 3 only dependencies and even *code/features* so long as it's done without breaking backwards-compatibility. When it comes to sage-the-distribution (which I sense is where most of this friction is coming from, and yet another reason to better separate sage from the sage-the-distribution), if there are dependencies you want to update that are Python 3-only I'd say go for it, but make it a separate SPKG so that previous versions of the dependency can still work on Python 2 builds. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAOTD34YdumAcpD%3DM_xqvJc5WrycB9vpNqurQyfLOLR3V4LzEPA%40mail.gmail.com.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: drop python2 compatibility in 9.1 ?
On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 9:42 PM Nils Bruin wrote: > > On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 9:01:42 AM UTC-8, Frédéric Chapoton wrote: >> >> So here is my proposal. >> >> * Starting from now, we allow ourselves to move on, using 9.1 betas and >> further releases for external python3 updates, including switch to ipython7, >> which seems to me the most urgent matter. But we also do not introduce >> python3-only code in our own code base if we can avoid it. >> > > I think for development and stability, we should take heed of the fact that > trac has some recent tickets addressing issues with py3 that are only being > uncovered now. The reality is that prior to 9.0, sage/py3 got only very > limited testing outside doctests and developers working on it. Doctests by no > means cover the full functionality of sage, and I would expect that in the > next few months a lot more issues will be found. I'd be a little hesitant > dropping py2 support under those conditions: being able to drop back on py2 > in these situations for a while seems like a decent mitigation strategy, and > would probably help with debugging. > > I think similar thinking led to the original proposed and published strategy > on the wiki, and it still makes sense. In practice, sage/py3 is not really a > proven product yet; just because people won't start really using it until > there's actually an official release with it. > > I appreciate the good intentions of "not introducing py3-only code in our > own code-base if we can avoid it", but how much does that help? If there's > one such change in a file that gets loaded into sage upon start-up, or which > needs to be parsed during build, the possibility of running sage on py2 is > gone, isn't it? > > I agree it's perhaps frustrating that the process of moving sage from py2 to > py3 hasn't completed with py2 falling out of support, but having a first > official release based on py3, while being the biggest step (and a big > applause for everybody who contributed to this herculean task!) is > unfortunately not the completion. The bug reporting and fixing that follows > it shouldn't just be ignored. ^ This says it better than I could. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAOTD34b-%3DW%2Biah4Cd0-nhNFNu1rs9Qq095cyhRM_g_U02q62Kg%40mail.gmail.com.
Re: [sage-devel] drop python2 compatibility in 9.1 ?
On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 11:49 AM Dima Pasechnik wrote: > > On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 7:44 PM Frédéric Chapoton wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > I would like to suggest that the sooner we drop Python 2 support the > > better. We still need to handle the upgrade to ipython7 and the > > compatibility with python 3.8. All this will be made very difficult if we > > insist on maintaining a codebase that is both compatible with python 2 and > > python 3. > > > > So, please vote : > > > > Do you agree that sage release 9.1 (and most of the 9.1.betas) will not be > > kept compatible with Python 2 ? > > As far as I am concerned, the sooner py2 is dropped on the "main" > branches, the better. > > This does not preclude making separate maintenance releases for py2, if need > be. This I would be okay with, and I have always said we should have maintenance branches, but the release manager doesn't want to do that so *shrug* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAOTD34Y64sQ4agZvZQYGF3EEykFw2dO-cAQ7biOTmb%2B04DY82w%40mail.gmail.com.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: drop python2 compatibility in 9.1 ?
On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 10:41 AM Timo Kaufmann wrote: > > Am Montag, 13. Januar 2020 17:33:56 UTC+1 schrieb E. Madison Bray: >> >> On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 9:24 AM Antonio Rojas wrote: >> > >> > El viernes, 10 de enero de 2020, 14:54:24 (UTC+1), E. Madison Bray >> > escribió: >> >> >> >> That seems like the obvious approach to me. As it is I've long felt >> >> that Sage should be more flexible in its dependencies where >> >> possible/necessary. With most Python packages it's easy as most have >> >> a .__version__ and its not so hard to define some variable >> >> like IS_RPY_2 and just have two separate branches. I have things like >> >> that all over the place in other packages to support e.g. different >> >> Numpy versions or work around version-specific bugs. >> > >> > >> > I've opened https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/28988 for rpy. But at this >> > point the major issues are python 3.8 and ipython 7, and I don't see how >> > one could support several versions of them without forking hundreds of >> > doctests. Both updates require multi-thousand-lines patches, due to >> > changes in dict sorting and hashes. >> >> That remains a fault of over-reliance on doctests. > > > What else should we rely on? Also, doctests are not the only things that fail > with current python3 libraries. Normal unit tests. The annoying thing about Sage's doctest-centric testing framework (which is otherwise good) is that it tends to lead people to thinking they can't write unit tests. But in fact there are unit tests in Sage, and they're just invoked through the doctest runner by writing "doctests" that run a unit test suite. >> I don't think >> downstream packaging is a good enough reason to push sage to rush >> things in such a way that is not well-communicated to the user >> community. If you need to have a multi-thousand-line patch then so be >> it. A patch is a patch. > > > That is unfortunate. I agree that "a patch is a patch", but in my view the > conclusion should be the opposite: Upstream should strive for no patches to > be necessary (except maybe to work around very distro-specific quirks). No > 5000 line patches and no 5 line patches. > > For me this decision means that sage on nixos will likely be stuck on python2 > for a while, and I can only hope that the python2 infrastructure keeps > working for long enough. Well, all the more reason to maintain Python 2 support a little longer than to rush and break things. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAOTD34YreBJwmQS97R5%2Bn2YmpDxeTR8OJ_42Y7G3nQZCktH6Mw%40mail.gmail.com.
[sage-devel] Re: Problem reading this list with slrn
In gmane.comp.mathematics.sage.devel, you wrote: > --=_Part_51_958209824.1579206122762 > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="=_Part_52_1707108526.1579206122762" > > --=_Part_52_1707108526.1579206122762 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Hi Dima, > > On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 9:08:54 PM UTC+1, Dima Pasechnik wrote: >> >> the story is here, in fact: >> >> https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2020/01/06/whatever-happened-to-news-gmane-org/ >> > > Thank you! > > As it seems, the only mentioning of "news.gmane" in my home directory in a > file whose name starts with "." is in .bashrc. However, changing > export NNTPSERVER="news.gmane.org" > to > export NNTPSERVER="news.gmane.io" > and sourcing .bashrc did not solve the problem. I still get "Failed to > initialize server." --- but indeed it mentions news.gmane.io instead of > news.gmane.org. > > So, what else can I do? I am replying to this message via slrn :-) I've started it as $ NNTPSERVER=news.gmane.io slrn and it is all there (this is a email reply to sage-devel@googlegroups.com, NNTP followup doesn't seem to work, but it was already the case, anyway; one gets there by hitting r (reply) in slrn interface) Dima > > Best regards, > Simon > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-devel" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/58f885d7-95a1-47c0-8c4d-ffab6672f543%40googlegroups.com. > > --=_Part_52_1707108526.1579206122762 > Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Hi Dima,On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 9:08:54 P= > M UTC+1, Dima Pasechnik wrote: rgin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">= > the story is here, in fact: ttps://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2020/01/06/whatever-happened-to-news-gmane-org/= > " target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3Dhttps:= > //www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Flars.ingebrigtsen.no%2F2020%2F01%2F= > 06%2Fwhatever-happened-to-news-gmane-org%2F\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\= > x3dAFQjCNEXweFYJEP6-rKkgPmTrk1QZoj-OA;return true;" onclick=3D"this.hr= > ef=3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Flars.ingebrigtsen.n= > o%2F2020%2F01%2F06%2Fwhatever-happened-to-news-gmane-org%2F\x26sa\x3dD\x26s= > ntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEXweFYJEP6-rKkgPmTrk1QZoj-OA;return true;">ht= > tps://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2020/01/06/whatever-happened-to-news-g= > mane-org/=C2=A0Thank y= > ou!As it seems, the only mentioning of news= > .gmane in my home directory in a file whose name starts with .&= > quot; is in .bashrc. However, changing=C2=A0 export NNTPSERVER= > =3Dnews.gmane.orgto=C2=A0 export NNTPSERV= > ER=3Dnews.gmane.ioand sourcing .bashrc did not solve= > the problem. I still get Failed to initialize server. --- but = > indeed it mentions news.gmane.io instead of news.gmane.org.<= > /div>So, what else can I do?Best regards, iv>Simon > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= > quot;sage-devel group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= > mail to mailto:sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com;>sage-dev= > el+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.c= > om/d/msgid/sage-devel/58f885d7-95a1-47c0-8c4d-ffab6672f543%40googlegroups.c= > om?utm_medium=3Demail_source=3Dfooter">https://groups.google.com/d/msgi= > d/sage-devel/58f885d7-95a1-47c0-8c4d-ffab6672f543%40googlegroups.com. r /> > > --=_Part_52_1707108526.1579206122762-- > > --=_Part_51_958209824.1579206122762-- > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/20200117100231.GA21890%40hilbert.lan. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[sage-devel] Re: Problem reading this list with slrn
In gmane.comp.mathematics.sage.devel, you wrote: > Hi Simon, > > one can also do all the communication with google groups via email. > For this, of course, it's desirable to have an archive of all the > messages in a mail reader format. > There are various downloaders of messages from google groups available > to create such an > archive, e.g. https://github.com/icy/google-group-crawler > > Perhaps we should create such archives for all sage- groups, host them > on sagemath.org > and update them regularly? test with news.gmane.io server > > Dima > > > > On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 8:22 PM Simon King wrote: >> >> Hi Dima, >> >> On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 9:08:54 PM UTC+1, Dima Pasechnik wrote: >>> >>> the story is here, in fact: >>> https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2020/01/06/whatever-happened-to-news-gmane-org/ >> >> >> Thank you! >> >> As it seems, the only mentioning of "news.gmane" in my home directory in a >> file whose name starts with "." is in .bashrc. However, changing >> export NNTPSERVER="news.gmane.org" >> to >> export NNTPSERVER="news.gmane.io" >> and sourcing .bashrc did not solve the problem. I still get "Failed to >> initialize server." --- but indeed it mentions news.gmane.io instead of >> news.gmane.org. >> >> So, what else can I do? >> >> Best regards, >> Simon >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "sage-devel" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/58f885d7-95a1-47c0-8c4d-ffab6672f543%40googlegroups.com. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-devel" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAAWYfq0FR7OvoPGfNLu8rbxFS%3DvuFaXit%3DjUC6FSCKMODO2-Sg%40mail.gmail.com. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/20200117095657.GA21839%40hilbert.lan. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [sage-devel] Problem reading this list with slrn
Hi Simon, one can also do all the communication with google groups via email. For this, of course, it's desirable to have an archive of all the messages in a mail reader format. There are various downloaders of messages from google groups available to create such an archive, e.g. https://github.com/icy/google-group-crawler Perhaps we should create such archives for all sage- groups, host them on sagemath.org and update them regularly? Dima On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 8:22 PM Simon King wrote: > > Hi Dima, > > On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 9:08:54 PM UTC+1, Dima Pasechnik wrote: >> >> the story is here, in fact: >> https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2020/01/06/whatever-happened-to-news-gmane-org/ > > > Thank you! > > As it seems, the only mentioning of "news.gmane" in my home directory in a > file whose name starts with "." is in .bashrc. However, changing > export NNTPSERVER="news.gmane.org" > to > export NNTPSERVER="news.gmane.io" > and sourcing .bashrc did not solve the problem. I still get "Failed to > initialize server." --- but indeed it mentions news.gmane.io instead of > news.gmane.org. > > So, what else can I do? > > Best regards, > Simon > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-devel" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/58f885d7-95a1-47c0-8c4d-ffab6672f543%40googlegroups.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAAWYfq0FR7OvoPGfNLu8rbxFS%3DvuFaXit%3DjUC6FSCKMODO2-Sg%40mail.gmail.com.
