[sage-devel] Re: more licensing discussion - Blender
Hello Harald, Hello Marshall, I strongly recommend the book The Essential Blender from Roland Hess. Its quite certain from page 1 that mathematics and Blender are the same. You can only master them and learn by doing it.Also the chapters are very nice and independent away from the intro chapters. Unfortunately the book isnt mentioning python at all up to the last page,to praise it there but whats the point you are done with the book. But I assume any good pythonbook will do as reference beside working with The Essential Blender Gottfried www.51552.eu www.wirtschaftswunder.co.uk On Jun 4, 10:00 am, Harald Schilly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 4, 1:32 am, David Joyner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to learn a bit about Blender too. If you have a book you'd recommend, please let me know. I've played around with blender and it's amazingly cool if you understand how it works (the UI), but this takes some time. I don't think a book will do it, because you need to learn the movements (hands, eyes, ...) to interact. So, my strong advice, search for screencasts! There are a lot of them and after you learned the keys g,r,space,s and some more you are ready to start with them. A book (even written tutorials) is too static. H --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: more licensing discussion - Blender
Thanks for the recommendation. For my purposes, discussion of python scripting is by the most important thing, and there doesn't seem to be quite as much systematic instruction out there on that. However, in the wikibook Blender 3D: Noob to Pro, there is a mostly complete chapter on scripting that I found helpful in getting oriented: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Blender_3D:_Noob_to_Pro#Python_Scripting ...although it trails off at about the point I'm really excited about - my immediate goal is to use Sage to calculate some mesh objects and Ipo curves, and dump that into Blender via a python script. Cheers, M. Hampton On Jun 5, 3:41 am, Kutoma Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Harald, Hello Marshall, I strongly recommend the book The Essential Blender from Roland Hess. Its quite certain from page 1 that mathematics and Blender are the same. You can only master them and learn by doing it.Also the chapters are very nice and independent away from the intro chapters. Unfortunately the book isnt mentioning python at all up to the last page,to praise it there but whats the point you are done with the book. But I assume any good pythonbook will do as reference beside working with The Essential Blender Gottfried www.51552.eu www.wirtschaftswunder.co.uk On Jun 4, 10:00 am, Harald Schilly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 4, 1:32 am, David Joyner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to learn a bit about Blender too. If you have a book you'd recommend, please let me know. I've played around with blender and it's amazingly cool if you understand how it works (the UI), but this takes some time. I don't think a book will do it, because you need to learn the movements (hands, eyes, ...) to interact. So, my strong advice, search for screencasts! There are a lot of them and after you learned the keys g,r,space,s and some more you are ready to start with them. A book (even written tutorials) is too static. H --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: more licensing discussion - Blender
On Jun 4, 1:32 am, David Joyner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to learn a bit about Blender too. If you have a book you'd recommend, please let me know. I've played around with blender and it's amazingly cool if you understand how it works (the UI), but this takes some time. I don't think a book will do it, because you need to learn the movements (hands, eyes, ...) to interact. So, my strong advice, search for screencasts! There are a lot of them and after you learned the keys g,r,space,s and some more you are ready to start with them. A book (even written tutorials) is too static. H --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: more licensing discussion - Blender
I have a small grant this summer to work on 3D visualization of geometric-algebraic objects (e.g. Groebner fans), and I have decided to learn the basics of Blender. Its amazingly small and very python friendly, so hopefully I can get some experience interfacing with it with Sage. -M. Hampton On May 30 2007, 12:18 am, William Stein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/29/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Man, typed faster than I read. There's no free lunch. Or polytopes. Regardless, YafRay is more promising than I originally thought. If only we could get John Stone to work with the YafRay people. His parallelism round objects with their beautiful textures meshes... My impression is that YafRay also has extensive support for parallelism. -- William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: more licensing discussion - Blender
I would like to learn a bit about Blender too. If you have a book you'd recommend, please let me know. On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Marshall Hampton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a small grant this summer to work on 3D visualization of geometric-algebraic objects (e.g. Groebner fans), and I have decided to learn the basics of Blender. Its amazingly small and very python friendly, so hopefully I can get some experience interfacing with it with Sage. -M. Hampton On May 30 2007, 12:18 am, William Stein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/29/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Man, typed faster than I read. There's no free lunch. Or polytopes. Regardless, YafRay is more promising than I originally thought. If only we could get John Stone to work with the YafRay people. His parallelism round objects with their beautiful textures meshes... My impression is that YafRay also has extensive support for parallelism. -- William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: more licensing discussion - Blender
Its funny you ask - I'm something of a book addict, so my first thought was to buy some books on blender. But (as with Sage!) there really is plenty of documentation and tutorials on the web. You just have to wade in and start doing them, and it takes time. I'm not sure there is a whole lot out there on the sort of python scripting I want to do, but whatever is out there is probably online. If anyone out there thinks that there is a useful book on blender (especially if it has some content relating to python), please weigh in. -M. Hampton On Jun 3, 6:32 pm, David Joyner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to learn a bit about Blender too. If you have a book you'd recommend, please let me know. On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Marshall Hampton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a small grant this summer to work on 3D visualization of geometric-algebraic objects (e.g. Groebner fans), and I have decided to learn the basics of Blender. Its amazingly small and very python friendly, so hopefully I can get some experience interfacing with it with Sage. -M. Hampton On May 30 2007, 12:18 am, William Stein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/29/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Man, typed faster than I read. There's no free lunch. Or polytopes. Regardless, YafRay is more promising than I originally thought. If only we could get John Stone to work with the YafRay people. His parallelism round objects with their beautiful textures meshes... My impression is that YafRay also has extensive support for parallelism. -- William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: more licensing discussion - Blender
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 4:28 PM, Marshall Hampton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a small grant this summer to work on 3D visualization of geometric-algebraic objects (e.g. Groebner fans), and I have decided to learn the basics of Blender. Its amazingly small and very python friendly, so hopefully I can get some experience interfacing with it with Sage. Hi, I'm just curious why you call Blender Amazingly small? I looked into blender a lot for Sage, when we were looking very hard for a suitable 3d rendering system. It's not amazingy small in my opinion. It's source distribution is so big it would be bigger than anything else in Sage. I'm not knocking blender at all -- it's a great program. I'm just curious what you meant. - William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: more licensing discussion - Blender
I meant in comparison to its commercial competitors, like Autodesk's 3d studio max, which are roughly 2GB (I'm not sure exactly). The binary is much smaller than those programs. As a component of Sage, it would be big, so its probably destined to be an optional spkg at most. But I think its very impressive considering all it does - much more than just rendering. -Marshall On Jun 3, 7:56 pm, William Stein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 4:28 PM, Marshall Hampton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a small grant this summer to work on 3D visualization of geometric-algebraic objects (e.g. Groebner fans), and I have decided to learn the basics of Blender. Its amazingly small and very python friendly, so hopefully I can get some experience interfacing with it with Sage. Hi, I'm just curious why you call Blender Amazingly small? I looked into blender a lot for Sage, when we were looking very hard for a suitable 3d rendering system. It's not amazingy small in my opinion. It's source distribution is so big it would be bigger than anything else in Sage. I'm not knocking blender at all -- it's a great program. I'm just curious what you meant. - William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: more licensing discussion
There is also Yafray. It is used as one of the rendering engines by blender and seems to be very good. Look here http://www.blender.org/features-gallery/gallery/images/ and scroll down a bit to External renderers. I *think* Yafray only has meshes so sage would have to create the geometric objects like spheres etc..., presumably not a big deal. For function plotting meshes are ideal. Michel On May 29, 12:33 am, William Stein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/28/07, Robert Bradshaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm just glad those are the only two sticky issues. I think we're fine with jsmath, as you said it's not linked--just distributed and run (separately) on the user's browser. We don't have to place license restrictions on the browser... Yep, that should be fine. Hopefully the author of Tachyon gets back to us--I would be surprised if he didn't free it up. The problem is that he's never responded to any email I've ever sent him. I suggest we wait a few days, and if he doesn't response then: (1) people on sage-devel who really like Tachyon could write their own emails to him asking in their own words that he consider removing the obnoxious licensing clause, and , (2) we try even hard to figure out if distributing Tachyon with SAGE is actually a copyright violation. It's not completely 100% crystal clear to me, since SAGE does no C library linking with Tachyon. And fortunately the Tachyon license is the BSD license (not something like the lame gnuplot license), so it's not restrictive. That said, we very well might want to do some C library linking with Tachyon in the future, and it would be very bad to not have this option. -- William Stein Associate Professor of Mathematics University of Washingtonhttp://www.williamstein.org --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: more licensing discussion
What email have you been using for John Stone? On May 28, 4:33 pm, William Stein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/28/07, Robert Bradshaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm just glad those are the only two sticky issues. I think we're fine with jsmath, as you said it's not linked--just distributed and run (separately) on the user's browser. We don't have to place license restrictions on the browser... Yep, that should be fine. Hopefully the author of Tachyon gets back to us--I would be surprised if he didn't free it up. The problem is that he's never responded to any email I've ever sent him. I suggest we wait a few days, and if he doesn't response then: (1) people on sage-devel who really like Tachyon could write their own emails to him asking in their own words that he consider removing the obnoxious licensing clause, and , (2) we try even hard to figure out if distributing Tachyon with SAGE is actually a copyright violation. It's not completely 100% crystal clear to me, since SAGE does no C library linking with Tachyon. And fortunately the Tachyon license is the BSD license (not something like the lame gnuplot license), so it's not restrictive. That said, we very well might want to do some C library linking with Tachyon in the future, and it would be very bad to not have this option. -- William Stein Associate Professor of Mathematics University of Washingtonhttp://www.williamstein.org --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: more licensing discussion
On 5/29/07, Hamptonio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What email have you been using for John Stone? [EMAIL PROTECTED] He hasn't responded yet. Please feel free to consider emailing him if you personally like Tachyon3d being in SAGE. His webpage is: http://jedi.ks.uiuc.edu/~johns/ On May 28, 4:33 pm, William Stein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/28/07, Robert Bradshaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm just glad those are the only two sticky issues. I think we're fine with jsmath, as you said it's not linked--just distributed and run (separately) on the user's browser. We don't have to place license restrictions on the browser... Yep, that should be fine. Hopefully the author of Tachyon gets back to us--I would be surprised if he didn't free it up. The problem is that he's never responded to any email I've ever sent him. I suggest we wait a few days, and if he doesn't response then: (1) people on sage-devel who really like Tachyon could write their own emails to him asking in their own words that he consider removing the obnoxious licensing clause, and , (2) we try even hard to figure out if distributing Tachyon with SAGE is actually a copyright violation. It's not completely 100% crystal clear to me, since SAGE does no C library linking with Tachyon. And fortunately the Tachyon license is the BSD license (not something like the lame gnuplot license), so it's not restrictive. That said, we very well might want to do some C library linking with Tachyon in the future, and it would be very bad to not have this option. -- William Stein Associate Professor of Mathematics University of Washingtonhttp://www.williamstein.org -- William Stein Associate Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://www.williamstein.org --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: more licensing discussion
On 5/29/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Man, typed faster than I read. There's no free lunch. Or polytopes. Regardless, YafRay is more promising than I originally thought. If only we could get John Stone to work with the YafRay people. His parallelism round objects with their beautiful textures meshes... My impression is that YafRay also has extensive support for parallelism. -- William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: more licensing discussion
I'm just glad those are the only two sticky issues. I think we're fine with jsmath, as you said it's not linked--just distributed and run (separately) on the user's browser. We don't have to place license restrictions on the browser... Hopefully the author of Tachyon gets back to us--I would be surprised if he didn't free it up. - Robert On May 27, 2007, at 6:29 PM, William Stein wrote: Hi, I just carefully went through all the SAGE components auditing their licenses and updating the COPYING.txt file that is included with SAGE (which has a table of all components, their licenses, etc.). The result is listed below. There are only two questionable components: (1) jsmath -- it's under the Apache 2.0 license whose GPL compatibility is in legal limbo. (2) tachyon3d -- it's under the original BSD license with the advertising clause. * Regarding jsmath, possibly the non-GPL compatible nature of license probably doesn't matter, because the SAGE server never runs jsmath -- it's only run by the user's web browser when they view the output of SAGE. * The Tachyon3d license, on the other hand might be a problem, because Tachyon3d's license is not GPL-compatible and SAGE includes and uses Tachyon as a key component. However, all communication is via pipes and the file system -- no C library dependence. Note that the licenses for tachyon3d and jsmath are both OSI approved open source licenses.So I do not know whether SAGE's inclusion / use of either one is a potential copyright violation. I just can't tell, since IANAL. SOFTWARE LICENSE -- bzip2BSD (customized) cddlib GPL clispGPL ec Watkins (BSD-ish) gmp-ecm LGPL ellsea GPL extcode GPL flintqs GPL freetype GPL gap GPL gd Custom (BSD-ish) gdmodule Custom (BSD-ish) genus2reduction GPL gfan GPL givaro GPL gmp LGPL gnuplotpyLGPL gsl GPL iml GPL ipython Modified BSD ipython1 Modified BSD jsmath Apache License 2.0 (see note below) note: -- jsmath is never run by SAGE or linked with SAGE at runtime -- lcalc (Rubinstein) GPL linbox LGPL matplotlib Modified Python license maxima GPL mercurialGPL moinmoin wikiGPL mpfi GPL mpfr LGPL mwrank GPL networkx LGPL ntl GPL numpyModified BSD omalloc GPL (part of Singular; see below) palp GPL pari GPL pexpect MIT (or X11) License pycrypto No restrictions pyopensslGPL pysqlite Modified BSD python Python License quaddouble Modified BSD readline GPL sage GPL sage_scripts GPL sagex/pyrex GPL (pyrex has no restrictions) simon-2descent GPL singular GPL sqlite Public Domain (no restrictions) sympow Modified BSD ** tachyon Original BSD without advertising clause (thus tachyon's license is GPL incompatible!) ** termcap GPL twisted Custom (Modified BSD) twistedweb2 MIT Free Software licence weaveSciPy License (=Modified BSD) zlib Custom (Modified BSD) zodb3ZPL -- William Stein Associate Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://www.williamstein.org --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL
[sage-devel] Re: more licensing discussion
On 5/28/07, Robert Bradshaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm just glad those are the only two sticky issues. I think we're fine with jsmath, as you said it's not linked--just distributed and run (separately) on the user's browser. We don't have to place license restrictions on the browser... Yep, that should be fine. Hopefully the author of Tachyon gets back to us--I would be surprised if he didn't free it up. The problem is that he's never responded to any email I've ever sent him. I suggest we wait a few days, and if he doesn't response then: (1) people on sage-devel who really like Tachyon could write their own emails to him asking in their own words that he consider removing the obnoxious licensing clause, and , (2) we try even hard to figure out if distributing Tachyon with SAGE is actually a copyright violation. It's not completely 100% crystal clear to me, since SAGE does no C library linking with Tachyon. And fortunately the Tachyon license is the BSD license (not something like the lame gnuplot license), so it's not restrictive. That said, we very well might want to do some C library linking with Tachyon in the future, and it would be very bad to not have this option. -- William Stein Associate Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://www.williamstein.org --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
