Re: [sage-support] Re: Server Wars!
calcp...@aol.com wrote: Well, I use the ftp site to share files with my students (pdfs, mp4s, assorted apps, etc). So, I think I need a dedicated ftp server after all *HTH, A. Jorge Garcia http://calcpage.tripod.com http://calcpage.tripod.com/ Teacher Professor Applied Mathematics, Physics Computer Science Baldwin Senior High School Nassau Community College* I'll make a few comments on various points made by others on this thread. As someone else pointed out, you can have multiple servers running on the same machine. Each service has a standard port (port 21 for ftp, port 22 for ssh, port 23 for telnet, port 80 for HTTP, port 443 for HTTPS. Sage uses port 8000 by default). There are 2^16 -1 ports, so in principle you could have 2^16 -1 different types of servers running, or 2^16 -1 servers of the same type running on different ports. Except in cases where the highest levels of security are needed, or the amount of traffic is very high, it would be a huge waste of resources to dedicate one physical computer to each of these. Just run all services on the one bit of hardware. There is no anonymous ftp equivalent for SSH. The whole idea of secure shell (SSH) is to provide a very high level of security. The whole idea of anonymous ftp is you let anyone get the data. The two are as different as chalk and cheese. The fact the standard Sage server uses HTTP, does not prevent you running a normal web server on the same machine too, as long as they use different ports (80 and 8000 are different of course). In fact, Apache allows you to run multiple web sites, all on the one server, using the same port, using something called a 'VirtualHost'. Things get more complex when security is more of an issue. Allowing root access via via telnet or ftp is a particularly bad idea. Instead of anonymous ftp, if students need to get at files, I'd just stick them in a directory where Apache servers files from. That's more convenient than ftp for most people, as they can use a browser. You can browse my files here http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/kirkby/Solaris-fixes/ despite the fact other parts of http://sage.math.washington.edu/ are more typical of what you see on a web server. If you want students to upload data, I would give them accounts on a machine with an ssh server and tell them to use ssh. Whilst uploading can be done via a web site, it is in my opinion not as secure and is a lot more hassle to implement. In any case, getting students to use ssh is no bad thing. It will introduce them to something which they might not have used before and is actually very useful. Dave -- To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-support] Re: Server Wars!
As someone else pointed out, you can have multiple servers running on the same machine. Each service has a standard port (port 21 for ftp, port 22 for ssh, port 23 for telnet, port 80 for HTTP, port 443 for HTTPS. Yes, of course, I just mean I'm not going to be able to drop ftp. Thanx, A. Jorge Garcia http://calcpage.tripod.com Teacher Professor Applied Mathematics, Physics Computer Science Baldwin Senior High School Nassau Community College -Original Message- From: Dr. David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.net To: sage-support@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 6:04 am Subject: Re: [sage-support] Re: Server Wars! calcp...@aol.com wrote: Well, I use the ftp site to share files with my students (pdfs, mp4s, assorted apps, etc). So, I think I need a dedicated ftp server after all *HTH, A. Jorge Garcia http://calcpage.tripod.com http://calcpage.tripod.com/ Teacher Professor Applied Mathematics, Physics Computer Science Baldwin Senior High School Nassau Community College* I'll make a few comments on various points made by others on this thread. As someone else pointed out, you can have multiple servers running on the same machine. Each service has a standard port (port 21 for ftp, port 22 for ssh, port 23 for telnet, port 80 for HTTP, port 443 for HTTPS. Sage uses port 8000 by default). There are 2^16 -1 ports, so in principle you could have 2^16 -1 different types of servers running, or 2^16 -1 servers of the same type running on different ports. Except in cases where the highest levels of security are needed, or the amount of traffic is very high, it would be a huge waste of resources to dedicate one physical computer to each of these. Just run all services on the one bit of hardware. There is no anonymous ftp equivalent for SSH. The whole idea of secure shell (SSH) is to provide a very high level of security. The whole idea of anonymous ftp is you let anyone get the data. The two are as different as chalk and cheese. The fact the standard Sage server uses HTTP, does not prevent you running a normal web server on the same machine too, as long as they use different ports (80 and 8000 are different of course). In fact, Apache allows you to run multiple web sites, all on the one server, using the same port, using something called a 'VirtualHost'. Things get more complex when security is more of an issue. Allowing root access via via telnet or ftp is a particularly bad idea. Instead of anonymous ftp, if students need to get at files, I'd just stick them in a directory where Apache servers files from. That's more convenient than ftp for most people, as they can use a browser. You can browse my files here http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/kirkby/Solaris-fixes/ despite the fact other parts of http://sage.math.washington.edu/ are more typical of what you see on a web server. If you want students to upload data, I would give them accounts on a machine with an ssh server and tell them to use ssh. Whilst uploading can be done via a web site, it is in my opinion not as secure and is a lot more hassle to implement. In any case, getting students to use ssh is no bad thing. It will introduce them to something which they might not have used before and is actually very useful. Dave -- To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URL: http://www.sagemath.org -- To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-support] Re: Server Wars!
Yes, but I personally would drop the ftp and only use ssh/sftp and Sage. In any case, those services operate through different ports so you can use the same physical server for all 3. OK, but how do I emulate anonymous ftp with sftp? HTH, A. Jorge Garcia http://calcpage.tripod.com Teacher Professor Applied Mathematics, Physics Computer Science Baldwin Senior High School Nassau Community College -Original Message- From: David Joyner wdjoy...@gmail.com To: sage-support@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, Nov 14, 2009 11:03 am Subject: [sage-support] Re: Server Wars! On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 10:52 AM, calcp...@aol.com wrote: BTW, I currently have 3 Linux servers at school. One is an ftp server to share files with my students. Another is an sftp server where my students can login to save their work. And another is down right now and was an apache server. I should be getting that last one repaired soon and am thinking of making it a SAGE server. My question is, can I combine all 3 services (ftp, sftp, SAGE) on one physical server? That way I will only need 2 servers (one more as a mirror, backup, failsafe) Yes, but I personally would drop the ftp and only use ssh/sftp and Sage. In any case, those services operate through different ports so you can use the same physical server for all 3. HTH, A. Jorge Garcia http://calcpage.tripod.com Teacher Professor Applied Mathematics, Physics Computer Science Baldwin Senior High School Nassau Community College --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URL: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~--- -- To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-support] Re: Server Wars!
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:59 PM, calcp...@aol.com wrote: Yes, but I personally would drop the ftp and only use ssh/sftp and Sage. In any case, those services operate through different ports so you can use the same physical server for all 3. OK, but how do I emulate anonymous ftp with sftp? I don't know. Maybe you can create some kind of web interface? If it is only to submit Sage assignments then you can just use the Sage server. HTH, A. Jorge Garcia http://calcpage.tripod.com Teacher Professor Applied Mathematics, Physics Computer Science Baldwin Senior High School Nassau Community College -Original Message- From: David Joyner wdjoy...@gmail.com To: sage-support@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, Nov 14, 2009 11:03 am Subject: [sage-support] Re: Server Wars! On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 10:52 AM, calcp...@aol.com wrote: BTW, I currently have 3 Linux servers at school. One is an ftp server to share files with my students. Another is an sftp server where my students can login to save their work. And another is down right now and was an apache server. I should be getting that last one repaired soon and am thinking of making it a SAGE server. My question is, can I combine all 3 services (ftp, sftp, SAGE) on one physical server? That way I will only need 2 servers (one more as a mirror, backup, failsafe) Yes, but I personally would drop the ftp and only use ssh/sftp and Sage. In any case, those services operate through different ports so you can use the same physical server for all 3. HTH, A. Jorge Garcia http://calcpage.tripod.com Teacher Professor Applied Mathematics, Physics Computer Science Baldwin Senior High School Nassau Community College --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URL: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~--- -- To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URL: http://www.sagemath.org -- To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-support] Re: Server Wars!
Well, I use the ftp site to share files with my students (pdfs, mp4s, assorted apps, etc). So, I think I need a dedicated ftp server after all HTH, A. Jorge Garcia _http://calcpage.tripod.com_ (http://calcpage.tripod.com/) Teacher Professor Applied Mathematics, Physics Computer Science Baldwin Senior High School Nassau Community College In a message dated 11/17/2009 8:14:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wdjoy...@gmail.com writes: I don't know. Maybe you can create some kind of web interface? If it is only to submit Sage assignments then you can just use the Sage server. -- To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URL: http://www.sagemath.org
