Re: [Samba] What project should I use ?
- Original Message - From: Chris Croswhite [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 12:06 AM Subject: RE: [Samba] What project should I use ? Have you looked at Samsung Connect (HP sold off OpenMail to them). It is a groupware product that can replce exchange in that it supports outlook and has several clients that run on KDE, Mac OSX, and web. I have used OpenMail and was supprised by the speed. As a follow on to this, I've reviewed all of the Exchange replacements recently. The worst I have to say really is SuSe mail server( http://www.suse.com/us/business/products/suse_business/email_server/ ) but it looks like it has some promise, SCO's Volution (VMS - http://www.caldera.com/products/volutionmsg/ ) isn't far behind and is quite expensive (and looks like it isn't about to change). Samsung Contact isn't too bad, but for the features it provides and the fact that it's just a follow on from HP's Openmail, they shouldn't really charge for it at all. The best of the lot really is GMS (Gordano Messaging Suite - http://www.ntmail.co.uk/Home/Case_Studies.htm ) which unlike the others has been built from scratch and is well worth paying for. There are some promising looking products in the OSS community aswell (RM-EMS - http://sourceforge.net/projects/rhems/ , Kroupware - http://kroupware.kde.org/ and Courier - http://www.courier-mta.org/) It can also be acheived using the freely available singular parts (most of the commercial projects are based on free components with a few scripts to tie them together and a web based management interface). If you want to do it this way I'd suggest, OpenLDAP, Cyrus-IMAP and Exim. HTH Shaolin Simo Sorce said: Forget it! It's not a real exchange replacement, just a bounce of free software tied together and a few script/windows programs to migrate out profiles no MAPI support afaik Simo. On Wed, 2002-12-11 at 23:43, Sykora, Dale wrote: Kevin/Seth, You might want to look at Suse Openexchange Server. I haven't used it, but it looks like it was designed to replace MS Exchange. http://www.suse.com/us/business/products/suse_business/openexchange/index.ht ml Dale -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba
RE: [Samba] What project should I use ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Collins, Kevin wrote: My $0.02 worth on the SAMBA issue, I'd look to OpenLDAP and SAMBA as being the central authentication process. Never actually done it, but I've been pondering it as well. There's a good article in this month's Linux Journal about OpenLDAP. You might want to pick up a copy of it. (I tried finding it online, but they didn't post it.) btw...that article does not cover Samba details at all. It say somethign to the effect of configuring Samba would take more space than we have in this article. cheers, jerry -- Hewlett-Packard- http://www.hp.com SAMBA Team -- http://www.samba.org GnuPG Key http://www.plainjoe.org/gpg_public.asc ISBN 0-672-32269-2 SAMS Teach Yourself Samba in 24 Hours 2ed You can never go home again, Oatman, but I guess you can shop there. --John Cusack - Grosse Point Blank (1997) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://quantumlab.net/pine_privacy_guard/ iD8DBQE9+KgXIR7qMdg1EfYRArtiAJsEz2Qkm2OVItbgOd0GFhDGhhiVIACgyuHr /fNRQGoARjBEFBFI0Q37mps= =8iYE -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba
Re: [Samba] What project should I use ?
John H Terpstra wrote: Ext2fs is by far the fastest file system on Linux. And this is great if you don't mind occasional hours-long fscks and also a distinct possibility losing every file on the drive if the system crashes at a bad moment. (I've known of a number of cases of the latter happening with ext2 filesystems, and it isn't pretty!) Ext2 is fast, but IMO, it is the Achilles heel of any Linux system that uses it. It is simply not up to the needs of serious, enterprise- level or mission-critical computing. (I know this sounds like flame bait, but I had to say it.) Ext3fs is the slowest, ReiserFS is in between them. I think ext3 definitely needs some more development work, including bug fixes. But maybe someday it will be worthy of consideration. I'm not as up to speed on journaling filesystems as I'd like to be, but I read recently that ext3 is the only one that can journal regular data as well as metadata. (Or at least attempts to ... IIRC, there was a bugfix for that code recently!) And of course, that kind of filesystem reliability does not come without a price. My point (obviously?) is that as usual, there are tradeoffs between speed and data integrity. Faster is not always better. One of the things I want to do soon is to benchmark XFS and JFS against Ext2fs and Ext3fs. Please feel encouraged! I'd love to see the performance figures for both XFS and JFS. Jay Ts -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba
Re: [Samba] What project should I use ?
On Thu, Dec 12, 2002 at 09:15:35AM -0600, Gerald (Jerry) Carter wrote: On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Collins, Kevin wrote: My $0.02 worth on the SAMBA issue, I'd look to OpenLDAP and SAMBA as being the central authentication process. Never actually done it, but I've been pondering it as well. There's a good article in this month's Linux Journal about OpenLDAP. You might want to pick up a copy of it. (I tried finding it online, but they didn't post it.) btw...that article does not cover Samba details at all. It say somethign to the effect of configuring Samba would take more space than we have in this article. On p. 55: The details of Samba configuration are outside the scope of this article. Or, it would take more space to cover OpenLDAP and Samba than it did to mention them together on the front cover. :-) Jay Ts -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba
Re: [Samba] What project should I use ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Jay Ts wrote: On p. 55: The details of Samba configuration are outside the scope of this article. Or, it would take more space to cover OpenLDAP and Samba than it did to mention them together on the front cover. :-) yeah. does seem kind of silly to mention them on the front and then skip over it in the article. I wonder how many people that issue for the OpenLDAP+Samba details. cheers, jerry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://quantumlab.net/pine_privacy_guard/ iD8DBQE9+LNcIR7qMdg1EfYRAs/oAKCmKWZ7YjFFjRsRS33K0R0QLiUGfwCgvT7I aHkF0fs07TCENhgByoqKRnY= =Sm4l -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba
RE: [Samba] What project should I use ?
I KNOW this is not relating directly to SAMBA, but since the subject was raised =) And for me, finding an application to do the job of EXCHANGE directly affects the decision to use SAMBA. (Unless I plan on integrating Exchange into a UN*X network) Samsung Contact isn't too bad, but for the features it provides and the fact that it's just a follow on from HP's Openmail, they shouldn't really charge for it at all. Major Question for Contact (for all servers actually): Can Outlook run in Corporate Mode? MS Outlook must continue to run in Corporate Mode, if not I lose most of its functionality. (Bynari Insight Connector has been put down in this thread, so I won't use that to get the functionality). The best of the lot really is GMS (Gordano Messaging Suite - http://www.ntmail.co.uk/Home/Case_Studies.htm ) which unlike the others has been built from scratch and is well worth paying for. %Repeat Samsung Contact question% I contacted GMS by phone. I wasn't expecting the strong UK accent though =P . The sales rep. said that Outlook 2000 was fully compatible, but I would still like to hear this from someone who has used it. There are some promising looking products in the OSS community aswell (RM-EMS - http://sourceforge.net/projects/rhems/ , Kroupware - http://kroupware.kde.org/ and Courier - http://www.courier-mta.org/) It can also be achieved using the freely available singular parts (most of the commercial projects are based on free components with a few scripts to tie them together and a web based management interface). If you want to do it this way I'd suggest, OpenLDAP, Cyrus-IMAP and Exim. HTH Shaolin I have looked at the Kroupware project but it is still in some of the planning stages. It has government support, that's very promising (Germany). I am looking to migrate in the next 6 months, or less. Thought about brewing my own, but I still would not have Outlook in Corporate Mode. I even thought of transitioning all desktops to Linux or *BSD and using an OSS Client (e.g. evolution). But Linux and the OSS Community is not quite ready to support the legal community. WARNING *** GOING FURTHER OFF TOPIC Reasons: *Fully stable and powerful Word-Processing Program (Legal documents can get very complex). *Case management system. There will probably never be an OSS one. But I am not aware of one that even runs on UN*X, and I am not about to write one. *Host of other legal applications, that use some other proprietary database. (e.g. SoftPro, Bankruptcy Pro, different software depending on the type of law practices.) If the wine project could manage to get access and all of the MS Windows Database drivers to transfer over then we would be in luck, as most of these apps are VB or VisualC frontends connected to some cheap database. *Transcript Management Apps. The one we use has an Access Backend. (By the way ACCESS SUCKS). *List goes on... OKAY I AM DONE RANTING Thanks for the dedication to OSS -- Intrepid -- __ http://www.linuxmail.org/ Now with POP3/IMAP access for only US$19.95/yr Powered by Outblaze -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba
RE: [Samba] What project should I use ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Only commenting on the exchange server replacement. I heard bynari is in financial trounble. Someone recently reccomended HP openmail, actually HP sold it to someone a few years ago. I think samsung? I may be wrong. Seth - -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Intrepid One Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Samba] What project should I use ? I am going to list my current plans for rebuilding a Law Firm's network. I hope that someone will be able to tell me which project (samba or samba-tng) would be a better choice, or if staying with MS is the only choice. If my plan could be changed for the better, input would be greatly appreciated: A lot of this information is useless for my questions, but I am throwing it in anyway. - CURRENT SETUP (to be replaced/updated) 1 Server (Proliant 1600: P2-450 (single), RAID5 SCSI storage) *MS Win2000 Server *File and Print Services (file size ranges from 1kb to several 100mb). Currently around 10gb in shared files. *MS Exchange 5.5 Server (Public Store 2.5GB; Private Store 3.0GB). 50 Desktop Users (Compaq Deskpro's w/ P2-300 up to Compaq Evo P4's. DeskPro P2-450 is the most common) *MS Win98-WinXP *WordPerfect 8 *MS Office 97-2000 *MS Outlook (running with Exchange in Corporate Mode) *Several Database Applications 10 Laptop Users *WinME-XP *WordPerfect 8 *MS Office97-2000 *MS Outlook (running with Exchange in Corporate Mode Offline Folders) *Offline Files or Briefcase to keep files on laptop and backed up on server *Several Database Applications Network Hardware: *HUBS (evil slow junky hubs, to be replaced of course). *ISDN (I know... what the heck were they thinking? ISDN? 60 users and an overloaded Exchange Server). (Also soon to be replaced with sDSL or T1). - PLANNED REPLACEMENT (I will focus more on things relating to SAMBA, and some holes will be left as I don't know exactly how to do some things with SAMBA yet, or at least I don't know the best route.) *ALL Clients will be moved to MS Win2000 (wanted to go with OpenSource Software all around but that is not a viable solution for a law office at this time) Main File/Authentication Server (Microsoft would call it a PDC) *Linux or *BSD for OS (probably RedHat Linux as they offer the most corporate support). *Nice powerful system with RAID5 storage, redundant parts, blah blah. Still won't need to be as expensive as a new Win2000 Server. *Will handle authentication either through UN*X password system w/ SAMBA duplicating that(passwords could be pushed to the other servers) or thru' a pam or ldap design. Backup File/Authentication Server *Automated (through scripting) backup of main file server. *Backup Tape System (probably an Ultrium drive). *Backup as many services as possible for Main Server. Test Server *Name says it all. Used to test experimental projects/code. Mail Server *Here is where things get more complicated. I am not asking the SAMBA team for total help here as mail services are not in SAMBA's view. I will be keeping the Exchange 5.5 Server or replacing it with Bynari InsightServer (unless someone knows a better product). I MUST have a single login. *After connecting to the Main Server they should not have to put in another password (for email or backup files). *Exchange uses a directory system (not very compliant but it exist) and most alternatives use LDAP. Therefore I will have to use OpenLDAP at some point in the authentication scheme. That long (hope I don't get made into a troll) email leads up to a few questions. Samba or Samba-TNG or stay with Micro*leech*soft? What is the best route for a single authentication across multiple UN*X servers? Any other experiences with moving an office with my structure to all OSS (Open-Source Software) in the server room. Major Concerns: Single Authentication Seamless Change from users point of view. Thank You - -- Intrepid - -- __ http://www.linuxmail.org/ Now with POP3/IMAP access for only US$19.95/yr Powered by Outblaze - -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 8.0 iQA/AwUBPfe4g2d7RWIwEvp1EQIfrACglXFFc0h+tRudVGpXSPu4imRHNQoAnArl RyhR2H4NA4vi5mZkIFCTW65M =jbeX -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba
RE: [Samba] What project should I use ?
Seth: HP sold openmail to Samsung. It's called Samsung Contact now. Here's a link: http://www.samsungcontact.com/en/ Been looking at it for a couple of months now - I'm contemplating an Exchange replacement and this might the one. Intrepid: My $0.02 worth on the SAMBA issue, I'd look to OpenLDAP and SAMBA as being the central authentication process. Never actually done it, but I've been pondering it as well. There's a good article in this month's Linux Journal about OpenLDAP. You might want to pick up a copy of it. (I tried finding it online, but they didn't post it.) Hope this helps. Kevin -Original Message- From: Seth Hollen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 5:14 PM To: 'Intrepid One'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Samba] What project should I use ? -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Only commenting on the exchange server replacement. I heard bynari is in financial trounble. Someone recently reccomended HP openmail, actually HP sold it to someone a few years ago. I think samsung? I may be wrong. Seth - -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Intrepid One Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Samba] What project should I use ? I am going to list my current plans for rebuilding a Law Firm's network. I hope that someone will be able to tell me which project (samba or samba-tng) would be a better choice, or if staying with MS is the only choice. If my plan could be changed for the better, input would be greatly appreciated: A lot of this information is useless for my questions, but I am throwing it in anyway. - CURRENT SETUP (to be replaced/updated) 1 Server (Proliant 1600: P2-450 (single), RAID5 SCSI storage) *MS Win2000 Server *File and Print Services (file size ranges from 1kb to several 100mb). Currently around 10gb in shared files. *MS Exchange 5.5 Server (Public Store 2.5GB; Private Store 3.0GB). 50 Desktop Users (Compaq Deskpro's w/ P2-300 up to Compaq Evo P4's. DeskPro P2-450 is the most common) *MS Win98-WinXP *WordPerfect 8 *MS Office 97-2000 *MS Outlook (running with Exchange in Corporate Mode) *Several Database Applications 10 Laptop Users *WinME-XP *WordPerfect 8 *MS Office97-2000 *MS Outlook (running with Exchange in Corporate Mode Offline Folders) *Offline Files or Briefcase to keep files on laptop and backed up on server *Several Database Applications Network Hardware: *HUBS (evil slow junky hubs, to be replaced of course). *ISDN (I know... what the heck were they thinking? ISDN? 60 users and an overloaded Exchange Server). (Also soon to be replaced with sDSL or T1). - PLANNED REPLACEMENT (I will focus more on things relating to SAMBA, and some holes will be left as I don't know exactly how to do some things with SAMBA yet, or at least I don't know the best route.) *ALL Clients will be moved to MS Win2000 (wanted to go with OpenSource Software all around but that is not a viable solution for a law office at this time) Main File/Authentication Server (Microsoft would call it a PDC) *Linux or *BSD for OS (probably RedHat Linux as they offer the most corporate support). *Nice powerful system with RAID5 storage, redundant parts, blah blah. Still won't need to be as expensive as a new Win2000 Server. *Will handle authentication either through UN*X password system w/ SAMBA duplicating that(passwords could be pushed to the other servers) or thru' a pam or ldap design. Backup File/Authentication Server *Automated (through scripting) backup of main file server. *Backup Tape System (probably an Ultrium drive). *Backup as many services as possible for Main Server. Test Server *Name says it all. Used to test experimental projects/code. Mail Server *Here is where things get more complicated. I am not asking the SAMBA team for total help here as mail services are not in SAMBA's view. I will be keeping the Exchange 5.5 Server or replacing it with Bynari InsightServer (unless someone knows a better product). I MUST have a single login. *After connecting to the Main Server they should not have to put in another password (for email or backup files). *Exchange uses a directory system (not very compliant but it exist) and most alternatives use LDAP. Therefore I will have to use OpenLDAP at some point in the authentication scheme. That long (hope I don't get made into a troll) email leads up to a few questions. Samba or Samba-TNG or stay with Micro*leech*soft? What is the best route for a single authentication across multiple UN*X servers? Any other experiences with moving an office with my structure to all OSS (Open-Source Software) in the server room. Major Concerns: Single Authentication Seamless Change from users
RE: [Samba] What project should I use ?
Kevin/Seth, You might want to look at Suse Openexchange Server. I haven't used it, but it looks like it was designed to replace MS Exchange. http://www.suse.com/us/business/products/suse_business/openexchange/index.html Dale -Original Message- From: Collins, Kevin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 4:32 PM To: 'Seth Hollen'; 'Intrepid One'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Samba] What project should I use ? Seth: HP sold openmail to Samsung. It's called Samsung Contact now. Here's a link: http://www.samsungcontact.com/en/ Been looking at it for a couple of months now - I'm contemplating an Exchange replacement and this might the one. Intrepid: My $0.02 worth on the SAMBA issue, I'd look to OpenLDAP and SAMBA as being the central authentication process. Never actually done it, but I've been pondering it as well. There's a good article in this month's Linux Journal about OpenLDAP. You might want to pick up a copy of it. (I tried finding it online, but they didn't post it.) Hope this helps. Kevin -Original Message- From: Seth Hollen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 5:14 PM To: 'Intrepid One'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Samba] What project should I use ? -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Only commenting on the exchange server replacement. I heard bynari is in financial trounble. Someone recently reccomended HP openmail, actually HP sold it to someone a few years ago. I think samsung? I may be wrong. Seth - -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Intrepid One Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Samba] What project should I use ? I am going to list my current plans for rebuilding a Law Firm's network. I hope that someone will be able to tell me which project (samba or samba-tng) would be a better choice, or if staying with MS is the only choice. If my plan could be changed for the better, input would be greatly appreciated: A lot of this information is useless for my questions, but I am throwing it in anyway. - CURRENT SETUP (to be replaced/updated) 1 Server (Proliant 1600: P2-450 (single), RAID5 SCSI storage) *MS Win2000 Server *File and Print Services (file size ranges from 1kb to several 100mb). Currently around 10gb in shared files. *MS Exchange 5.5 Server (Public Store 2.5GB; Private Store 3.0GB). 50 Desktop Users (Compaq Deskpro's w/ P2-300 up to Compaq Evo P4's. DeskPro P2-450 is the most common) *MS Win98-WinXP *WordPerfect 8 *MS Office 97-2000 *MS Outlook (running with Exchange in Corporate Mode) *Several Database Applications 10 Laptop Users *WinME-XP *WordPerfect 8 *MS Office97-2000 *MS Outlook (running with Exchange in Corporate Mode Offline Folders) *Offline Files or Briefcase to keep files on laptop and backed up on server *Several Database Applications Network Hardware: *HUBS (evil slow junky hubs, to be replaced of course). *ISDN (I know... what the heck were they thinking? ISDN? 60 users and an overloaded Exchange Server). (Also soon to be replaced with sDSL or T1). - PLANNED REPLACEMENT (I will focus more on things relating to SAMBA, and some holes will be left as I don't know exactly how to do some things with SAMBA yet, or at least I don't know the best route.) *ALL Clients will be moved to MS Win2000 (wanted to go with OpenSource Software all around but that is not a viable solution for a law office at this time) Main File/Authentication Server (Microsoft would call it a PDC) *Linux or *BSD for OS (probably RedHat Linux as they offer the most corporate support). *Nice powerful system with RAID5 storage, redundant parts, blah blah. Still won't need to be as expensive as a new Win2000 Server. *Will handle authentication either through UN*X password system w/ SAMBA duplicating that(passwords could be pushed to the other servers) or thru' a pam or ldap design. Backup File/Authentication Server *Automated (through scripting) backup of main file server. *Backup Tape System (probably an Ultrium drive). *Backup as many services as possible for Main Server. Test Server *Name says it all. Used to test experimental projects/code. Mail Server *Here is where things get more complicated. I am not asking the SAMBA team for total help here as mail services are not in SAMBA's view. I will be keeping the Exchange 5.5 Server or replacing it with Bynari InsightServer (unless someone knows a better product). I MUST have a single login. *After connecting to the Main Server they should not have to put in another password (for email or backup files
RE: [Samba] What project should I use ?
Hey guys I suggest: Replace Exchange with (qpopper, sendmail/another substitute, imap) and http://www.horde.org/imp/ as front end. Of course it will be better if use LDAP to store almost anything On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Collins, Kevin wrote: Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:32:00 -0500 From: Collins, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Seth Hollen' [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'Intrepid One' [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Samba] What project should I use ? Seth: HP sold openmail to Samsung. It's called Samsung Contact now. Here's a link: http://www.samsungcontact.com/en/ Been looking at it for a couple of months now - I'm contemplating an Exchange replacement and this might the one. Intrepid: My $0.02 worth on the SAMBA issue, I'd look to OpenLDAP and SAMBA as being the central authentication process. Never actually done it, but I've been pondering it as well. There's a good article in this month's Linux Journal about OpenLDAP. You might want to pick up a copy of it. (I tried finding it online, but they didn't post it.) Hope this helps. Kevin -Original Message- From: Seth Hollen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 5:14 PM To: 'Intrepid One'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Samba] What project should I use ? -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Only commenting on the exchange server replacement. I heard bynari is in financial trounble. Someone recently reccomended HP openmail, actually HP sold it to someone a few years ago. I think samsung? I may be wrong. Seth - -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Intrepid One Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Samba] What project should I use ? I am going to list my current plans for rebuilding a Law Firm's network. I hope that someone will be able to tell me which project (samba or samba-tng) would be a better choice, or if staying with MS is the only choice. If my plan could be changed for the better, input would be greatly appreciated: A lot of this information is useless for my questions, but I am throwing it in anyway. - CURRENT SETUP (to be replaced/updated) 1 Server (Proliant 1600: P2-450 (single), RAID5 SCSI storage) *MS Win2000 Server *File and Print Services (file size ranges from 1kb to several 100mb). Currently around 10gb in shared files. *MS Exchange 5.5 Server (Public Store 2.5GB; Private Store 3.0GB). 50 Desktop Users (Compaq Deskpro's w/ P2-300 up to Compaq Evo P4's. DeskPro P2-450 is the most common) *MS Win98-WinXP *WordPerfect 8 *MS Office 97-2000 *MS Outlook (running with Exchange in Corporate Mode) *Several Database Applications 10 Laptop Users *WinME-XP *WordPerfect 8 *MS Office97-2000 *MS Outlook (running with Exchange in Corporate Mode Offline Folders) *Offline Files or Briefcase to keep files on laptop and backed up on server *Several Database Applications Network Hardware: *HUBS (evil slow junky hubs, to be replaced of course). *ISDN (I know... what the heck were they thinking? ISDN? 60 users and an overloaded Exchange Server). (Also soon to be replaced with sDSL or T1). - PLANNED REPLACEMENT (I will focus more on things relating to SAMBA, and some holes will be left as I don't know exactly how to do some things with SAMBA yet, or at least I don't know the best route.) *ALL Clients will be moved to MS Win2000 (wanted to go with OpenSource Software all around but that is not a viable solution for a law office at this time) Main File/Authentication Server (Microsoft would call it a PDC) *Linux or *BSD for OS (probably RedHat Linux as they offer the most corporate support). *Nice powerful system with RAID5 storage, redundant parts, blah blah. Still won't need to be as expensive as a new Win2000 Server. *Will handle authentication either through UN*X password system w/ SAMBA duplicating that(passwords could be pushed to the other servers) or thru' a pam or ldap design. Backup File/Authentication Server *Automated (through scripting) backup of main file server. *Backup Tape System (probably an Ultrium drive). *Backup as many services as possible for Main Server. Test Server *Name says it all. Used to test experimental projects/code. Mail Server *Here is where things get more complicated. I am not asking the SAMBA team for total help here as mail services are not in SAMBA's view. I will be keeping the Exchange 5.5 Server or replacing it with Bynari InsightServer (unless someone knows a better product). I MUST have a single login. *After connecting to the Main Server they should not have to put in another password (for email or backup files). *Exchange uses a directory system (not very compliant
Re: [Samba] What project should I use ?
Oh Intrepid One, You ask such amazing questions! Of course you will excuse a little bias on my part I am sure. Without doubt I'd use Samba. Right now the stable version is 2.2.7a (as of this morning). I'd build a box using 3WARE IDE RAID - it's faster and more cost effective than SCSI is today. If price point is an issue, check out the Tyan K7 2462 motherboard. You might like to deck it out with two MP2G+ CPUs (cheap but effective). I'd look at 4 IBM 80GB+ 7200rpm IDE drives off the RAID storage (on the 3WARE 7500-4 controller) and one 60GB 7200rpm IDE boot drive on which I'd install my OS. Consider 1Gb/s ethernet to an etherswitch that has 1 Gb/s port and the rest 100Mb/s. That combo will punch a load of performance. I'd add in about 1GB DDR RAM - also cheap and it means you will not be starved when your users hit the system hard. If price point is not an issue, check out HP and IBM servers - you can't beat them for quality, support, realiability. Same configuration concepts as above. PS: The 3WARE IDE RAID give you an I/O bandwidth of up to 452MB/s, compared with 320 Mbits/s on fastest SCSI. Big difference in poerformance! As for the OS: LINUX, LINUX, LINUX!!! As for the brand: Did you seriously check out SuSE Enterprise Linux Server and SuSE OpenExchange server? Did you check out SCO Linux 4.0 Server? Before you jump to the conclusion that Red Hat is your only choice, check out SuSE and SCO, it might not change your mind, but at least will open you choice to other possibilities. I'd also seriously look at updating all workstations to a common OS platform. It will make your life of administration a lot more peaceful. I'd look seriously at ZAW (Zero Administration Windows) - for more information you probably want to hire a consultant who knows MS Windows NT/2K/XP inside out (PS: I am available ;)). IT will seriously reduce your maintenance overheads. Samba is a great platform to build this on (commercial plug!). The only bit of the change that will NOT be seemless is the update of user workstations and notebooks. For the rest, you should be fine except that your Win NT/2K/XP machines may need to re-join the domain (assuming you now do use domain security). This will only impact you if you migrate entirely from NT - Samba. You could always continue to use your NT Domain controller just for authentication - not nice, but useable and possibly a good migration strategy. That way you can migrate the PDC after all the other issues have been smoothed over - ie: progressive migration rather than abrupt change. PS: Your old server would be a good 'test server'. I hope this answers your questions. - John T. On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Intrepid One wrote: I am going to list my current plans for rebuilding a Law Firms network. I hope that someone will be able to tell me which project (samba or samba-tng) would be a better choice, or if staying with MS is the only choice. If my plan could be changed for the better, input would be greatly appreciated: A lot of this information is useless for my questions, but I am throwing it in anyway. CURRENT SETUP (to be replaced/updated) 1 Server (Proliant 1600: P2-450 (single), RAID5 SCSI storage) *MS Win2000 Server *File and Print Services (file size ranges from 1kb to several 100mb). Currently around 10gb in shared files. *MS Exchange 5.5 Server (Public Store 2.5GB; Private Store 3.0GB). 50 Desktop Users (Compaq Deskpro's w/ P2-300 up to Compaq Evo P4's. DeskPro P2-450 is the most common) *MS Win98-WinXP *WordPerfect 8 *MS Office 97-2000 *MS Outlook (running with Exchange in Corporate Mode) *Several Database Applications 10 Laptop Users *WinME-XP *WordPerfect 8 *MS Office97-2000 *MS Outlook (running with Exchange in Corporate Mode Offline Folders) *Offline Files or Briefcase to keep files on laptop and backed up on server *Several Database Applications Network Hardware: *HUBS (evil slow junky hubs, to be replaced of course). *ISDN (I know... what the heck were they thinking? ISDN? 60 users and an overloaded Exchange Server). (Also soon to be replaced with sDSL or T1). PLANNED REPLACEMENT (I will focus more on things relating to SAMBA, and some holes will be left as I don't know exactly how to do some things with SAMBA yet, or at least I don't know the best route.) *ALL Clients will be moved to MS Win2000 (wanted to go with OpenSource Software all around but that is not a viable solution for a law office at this time) Main File/Authentication Server (Microsoft would call it a PDC) *Linux or *BSD for OS (probably RedHat Linux as they offer the most corporate support). *Nice powerful system with RAID5 storage, redundant parts, blah blah. Still won't need to be as expensive as a new Win2000 Server. *Will handle authentication either through UN*X password system w/ SAMBA duplicating that(passwords could be pushed to the other servers) or thru' a pam or ldap design.
Re: [Samba] What project should I use ?
First off I will probably be going with Compaq Servers (now called HP Servers, but they are still Compaq Proliants to me). I have good experience with them and good support. Also I am getting a good deal on a refurbished one right now. I am hearing SAMBA (with the new releases this month) a lot. Probably will go with it. But I will still test a Samba-TNG server. OFFTOPIC Not to go off-topic but... I can vouch for IDE RAID. I helped setup a large legal document depository. (Put Simply: Large file system to store gigs of tiff images, linked to a database for attorney's to index the documents. Also had a cluster of systems doing OCR, Secure Web Frontend to the documents and information.) Well we needed around 1TB . SCSI was a bit expensive. We went with a RaidZone OpenNAS http://www.raidzone.com which has a total of 1.2TB of usable RAID5 storage. It is a wonderful system and has been going for 9 months now without a glitch. It has hotswap drives and a hotspare. We also have a 900GB native tape backup system. Who else can say they have 1.2TB. =) /OFFTOPIC BACK on Topic I have liked the work of SUSE in the passed. I am only LEANING towards RedHat. Personally I love/use GENTOO, but if I were to leave there would need to be a support plan in place. Also, I can only buy from a company that will be around for a while, and I don't know about the stability of the other Linux companies (the ones that sell products I mean). If you haven't used GENTOO you should, its amazing. All Client systems will use Win2000. Only major problem (outside of the endless problems that all MS products have) is with WordPerfect 8. Corel does not support it under Win2000. I have a few users with win2000 and they only have a few problems in WordPerfect, but those can be avoided. By the way, this is for a law office, thats why they use WordPerfect 8. You read my mind. The old server will be the test server. The backup server will probably be an IDE system, since I don't need high redundancy on it. I will have other servers to. Fax server (might go in mail server), proxy w/ virus scanning, etc... Oh and I am looking to replace the Hubs with HP Procurve Switches. Most of that was offtopic, just wanted to clarify on John's post. Thanks -- Intrepid - Original Message - From: John H Terpstra [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 22:53:35 + (GMT) To: Intrepid One [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Samba] What project should I use ? Oh Intrepid One, You ask such amazing questions! Of course you will excuse a little bias on my part I am sure. Without doubt I'd use Samba. Right now the stable version is 2.2.7a (as of this morning). I'd build a box using 3WARE IDE RAID - it's faster and more cost effective than SCSI is today. If price point is an issue, check out the Tyan K7 2462 motherboard. You might like to deck it out with two MP2G+ CPUs (cheap but effective). I'd look at 4 IBM 80GB+ 7200rpm IDE drives off the RAID storage (on the 3WARE 7500-4 controller) and one 60GB 7200rpm IDE boot drive on which I'd install my OS. Consider 1Gb/s ethernet to an etherswitch that has 1 Gb/s port and the rest 100Mb/s. That combo will punch a load of performance. I'd add in about 1GB DDR RAM - also cheap and it means you will not be starved when your users hit the system hard. If price point is not an issue, check out HP and IBM servers - you can't beat them for quality, support, realiability. Same configuration concepts as above. PS: The 3WARE IDE RAID give you an I/O bandwidth of up to 452MB/s, compared with 320 Mbits/s on fastest SCSI. Big difference in poerformance! As for the OS: LINUX, LINUX, LINUX!!! As for the brand: Did you seriously check out SuSE Enterprise Linux Server and SuSE OpenExchange server? Did you check out SCO Linux 4.0 Server? Before you jump to the conclusion that Red Hat is your only choice, check out SuSE and SCO, it might not change your mind, but at least will open you choice to other possibilities. I'd also seriously look at updating all workstations to a common OS platform. It will make your life of administration a lot more peaceful. I'd look seriously at ZAW (Zero Administration Windows) - for more information you probably want to hire a consultant who knows MS Windows NT/2K/XP inside out (PS: I am available ;)). IT will seriously reduce your maintenance overheads. Samba is a great platform to build this on (commercial plug!). The only bit of the change that will NOT be seemless is the update of user workstations and notebooks. For the rest, you should be fine except that your Win NT/2K/XP machines may need to re-join the domain (assuming you now do use domain security). This will only impact you if you migrate entirely from NT - Samba. You could always continue to use your NT Domain controller just for authentication - not nice, but useable and possibly a good migration strategy. That way you can migrate the PDC
Re: [Samba] What project should I use ?
On Thu, Dec 12, 2002 at 07:20:58AM +0800, Intrepid One wrote: We went with a RaidZone OpenNAS http://www.raidzone.com which has a total of 1.2TB of usable RAID5 storage. It is a wonderful system and has been going for 9 months now without a glitch. It has hotswap drives and a hotspare. We also have a 900GB native tape backup system. By the way. RaidZone is using Samba under the covers to provide Windows file sharing :-). Jeremy. -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba
RE: [Samba] What project should I use ?
Forget it! It's not a real exchange replacement, just a bounce of free software tied together and a few script/windows programs to migrate out profiles no MAPI support afaik Simo. On Wed, 2002-12-11 at 23:43, Sykora, Dale wrote: Kevin/Seth, You might want to look at Suse Openexchange Server. I haven't used it, but it looks like it was designed to replace MS Exchange. http://www.suse.com/us/business/products/suse_business/openexchange/index.html Dale -Original Message- From: Collins, Kevin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 4:32 PM To: 'Seth Hollen'; 'Intrepid One'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Samba] What project should I use ? Seth: HP sold openmail to Samsung. It's called Samsung Contact now. Here's a link: http://www.samsungcontact.com/en/ Been looking at it for a couple of months now - I'm contemplating an Exchange replacement and this might the one. Intrepid: My $0.02 worth on the SAMBA issue, I'd look to OpenLDAP and SAMBA as being the central authentication process. Never actually done it, but I've been pondering it as well. There's a good article in this month's Linux Journal about OpenLDAP. You might want to pick up a copy of it. (I tried finding it online, but they didn't post it.) Hope this helps. Kevin -Original Message- From: Seth Hollen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 5:14 PM To: 'Intrepid One'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Samba] What project should I use ? -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Only commenting on the exchange server replacement. I heard bynari is in financial trounble. Someone recently reccomended HP openmail, actually HP sold it to someone a few years ago. I think samsung? I may be wrong. Seth - -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Intrepid One Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Samba] What project should I use ? I am going to list my current plans for rebuilding a Law Firm's network. I hope that someone will be able to tell me which project (samba or samba-tng) would be a better choice, or if staying with MS is the only choice. If my plan could be changed for the better, input would be greatly appreciated: A lot of this information is useless for my questions, but I am throwing it in anyway. - CURRENT SETUP (to be replaced/updated) 1 Server (Proliant 1600: P2-450 (single), RAID5 SCSI storage) *MS Win2000 Server *File and Print Services (file size ranges from 1kb to several 100mb). Currently around 10gb in shared files. *MS Exchange 5.5 Server (Public Store 2.5GB; Private Store 3.0GB). 50 Desktop Users (Compaq Deskpro's w/ P2-300 up to Compaq Evo P4's. DeskPro P2-450 is the most common) *MS Win98-WinXP *WordPerfect 8 *MS Office 97-2000 *MS Outlook (running with Exchange in Corporate Mode) *Several Database Applications 10 Laptop Users *WinME-XP *WordPerfect 8 *MS Office97-2000 *MS Outlook (running with Exchange in Corporate Mode Offline Folders) *Offline Files or Briefcase to keep files on laptop and backed up on server *Several Database Applications Network Hardware: *HUBS (evil slow junky hubs, to be replaced of course). *ISDN (I know... what the heck were they thinking? ISDN? 60 users and an overloaded Exchange Server). (Also soon to be replaced with sDSL or T1). - PLANNED REPLACEMENT (I will focus more on things relating to SAMBA, and some holes will be left as I don't know exactly how to do some things with SAMBA yet, or at least I don't know the best route.) *ALL Clients will be moved to MS Win2000 (wanted to go with OpenSource Software all around but that is not a viable solution for a law office at this time) Main File/Authentication Server (Microsoft would call it a PDC) *Linux or *BSD for OS (probably RedHat Linux as they offer the most corporate support). *Nice powerful system with RAID5 storage, redundant parts, blah blah. Still won't need to be as expensive as a new Win2000 Server. *Will handle authentication either through UN*X password system w/ SAMBA duplicating that(passwords could be pushed to the other servers) or thru' a pam or ldap design. Backup File/Authentication Server *Automated (through scripting) backup of main file server. *Backup Tape System (probably an Ultrium drive). *Backup as many services as possible for Main Server. Test Server *Name says it all. Used to test experimental projects/code. Mail Server *Here is where things get more complicated. I am not asking
RE: [Samba] What project should I use ?
Have you looked at Samsung Connect (HP sold off OpenMail to them). It is a groupware product that can replce exchange in that it supports outlook and has several clients that run on KDE, Mac OSX, and web. I have used OpenMail and was supprised by the speed. Simo Sorce said: Forget it! It's not a real exchange replacement, just a bounce of free software tied together and a few script/windows programs to migrate out profiles no MAPI support afaik Simo. On Wed, 2002-12-11 at 23:43, Sykora, Dale wrote: Kevin/Seth, You might want to look at Suse Openexchange Server. I haven't used it, but it looks like it was designed to replace MS Exchange. http://www.suse.com/us/business/products/suse_business/openexchange/index.ht ml Dale -Original Message- From: Collins, Kevin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 4:32 PM To: 'Seth Hollen'; 'Intrepid One'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Samba] What project should I use ? Seth: HP sold openmail to Samsung. It's called Samsung Contact now. Here's a link: http://www.samsungcontact.com/en/ Been looking at it for a couple of months now - I'm contemplating an Exchange replacement and this might the one. Intrepid: My $0.02 worth on the SAMBA issue, I'd look to OpenLDAP and SAMBA as being the central authentication process. Never actually done it, but I've been pondering it as well. There's a good article in this month's Linux Journal about OpenLDAP. You might want to pick up a copy of it. (I tried finding it online, but they didn't post it.) Hope this helps. Kevin -Original Message- From: Seth Hollen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 5:14 PM To: 'Intrepid One'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Samba] What project should I use ? -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Only commenting on the exchange server replacement. I heard bynari is in financial trounble. Someone recently reccomended HP openmail, actually HP sold it to someone a few years ago. I think samsung? I may be wrong. Seth - -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Intrepid One Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Samba] What project should I use ? I am going to list my current plans for rebuilding a Law Firm's network. I hope that someone will be able to tell me which project (samba or samba-tng) would be a better choice, or if staying with MS is the only choice. If my plan could be changed for the better, input would be greatly appreciated: A lot of this information is useless for my questions, but I am throwing it in anyway. - CURRENT SETUP (to be replaced/updated) 1 Server (Proliant 1600: P2-450 (single), RAID5 SCSI storage) *MS Win2000 Server *File and Print Services (file size ranges from 1kb to several 100mb). Currently around 10gb in shared files. *MS Exchange 5.5 Server (Public Store 2.5GB; Private Store 3.0GB). 50 Desktop Users (Compaq Deskpro's w/ P2-300 up to Compaq Evo P4's. DeskPro P2-450 is the most common) *MS Win98-WinXP *WordPerfect 8 *MS Office 97-2000 *MS Outlook (running with Exchange in Corporate Mode) *Several Database Applications 10 Laptop Users *WinME-XP *WordPerfect 8 *MS Office97-2000 *MS Outlook (running with Exchange in Corporate Mode Offline Folders) *Offline Files or Briefcase to keep files on laptop and backed up on server *Several Database Applications Network Hardware: *HUBS (evil slow junky hubs, to be replaced of course). *ISDN (I know... what the heck were they thinking? ISDN? 60 users and an overloaded Exchange Server). (Also soon to be replaced with sDSL or T1). - PLANNED REPLACEMENT (I will focus more on things relating to SAMBA, and some holes will be left as I don't know exactly how to do some things with SAMBA yet, or at least I don't know the best route.) *ALL Clients will be moved to MS Win2000 (wanted to go with OpenSource Software all around but that is not a viable solution for a law office at this time) Main File/Authentication Server (Microsoft would call it a PDC) *Linux or *BSD for OS (probably RedHat Linux as they offer the most corporate support). *Nice powerful system with RAID5 storage, redundant parts, blah blah. Still won't need to be as expensive as a new Win2000 Server. *Will handle authentication either through UN*X password system w/ SAMBA duplicating that(passwords could be pushed to the other servers) or thru' a pam or ldap design. Backup File/Authentication Server *Automated (through scripting) backup of main file server. *Backup Tape System (probably an Ultrium drive
Re: [Samba] What project should I use ?
Oooh, I think I should add some of my know-how... John H Terpstra wrote: Oh Intrepid One, You ask such amazing questions! Of course you will excuse a little bias on my part I am sure. Without doubt I'd use Samba. Right now the stable version is 2.2.7a (as of this morning). I second that suggestion. I'd build a box using 3WARE IDE RAID - it's faster and more cost effective than SCSI is today. I dunno about the performance, but the price is certianly right. If price point is an issue, check out the Tyan K7 2462 motherboard. You might like to deck it out with two MP2G+ CPUs (cheap but effective). I'd look at 4 IBM 80GB+ 7200rpm IDE drives off the RAID storage (on the 3WARE 7500-4 controller) and one 60GB 7200rpm IDE boot drive on which I'd install my OS. For the boot drive I would use a 40GB or 60GB RAID1 using a 2-port 3ware card. There's nothing quite like the hell of that lone hard drive going bad at an inopprotune time. Watch out for the hardware RAID5 on those 3ware cards. The performance on those is... disappointing to say the least. On one of my servers switching from hardware RAID5 to software RAID5 tripled (!!!) throughput. I went from 15MB/sec writing to 50MB/sec writing and 30MB/sec reading to 75MB/sec reading (aka a saturated PCI bus). I expect it to go faster, at least when reading, once I put the controller (I was using a 7500-4) in a 64-bit slot. An excellent solution would be to get a 7500-8 - 2 ports for booting, and 4 of the other 6 in a JBOD for use with software RAID. If you use IDE drives with software RAID5 dual CPUs are a must. Consider 1Gb/s ethernet to an etherswitch that has 1 Gb/s port and the rest 100Mb/s. Gigabit could be considered overkill. PS: The 3WARE IDE RAID give you an I/O bandwidth of up to 452MB/s, compared with 320 Mbits/s on fastest SCSI. Big difference in poerformance! Be aware that those are pure numbers that, unfortunately, don't translate into the real world. My experience is that the U320 SCSI will easily give the same throughput but with substatianlly lower CPU usage if you use software RAID. If you use hardware RAID they won't even be in the same ballpark. I'd also seriously look at updating all workstations to a common OS platform. It will make your life of administration a lot more peaceful. I second this as well. -- Phil Brutsche [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba
Re: [Samba] What project should I use ?
On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Phil Brutsche wrote: Oooh, I think I should add some of my know-how... Indeed! And I hope you don't mind my reply - no criticism intended. John H Terpstra wrote: Oh Intrepid One, You ask such amazing questions! Of course you will excuse a little bias on my part I am sure. Without doubt I'd use Samba. Right now the stable version is 2.2.7a (as of this morning). I second that suggestion. I'd build a box using 3WARE IDE RAID - it's faster and more cost effective than SCSI is today. I dunno about the performance, but the price is certianly right. From my evaluations on SuSE Linux 8.1 and Caldera OpenLinux 3.11 (with 2.4.18 kernel) using 3 x 60GB WD 7200 IDE drives on a 7500-4 controller I could get peak I/O of 452 MBytes/sec, and a sustainable I/O rate of over 100 MBytes/sec. That is not exactly a 'dunno' performance situation. These tests were done using dbench and RAID5. Let's get that right: 100 MBytes/sec == 800 Mbits/sec, which is just a tad over 100 Mbits/sec (the bottleneck if you use 100-Base-T as the nic). In actual CIFS benchmarking tests over 1Gb ethernet, between two identical machines I have clocked sustained I/O at over 70MBytes/sec, that's still 70x8 = 560 Mbits/sec - still just a tad more than 100Mbit/sec ethernet can handle. So, if you want to give your MS windows clients breathing space and performance, at least between the etherswitch (a cheap device today) and the samba server, use 1Gb ethernet. Hence, my recommendation. If price point is an issue, check out the Tyan K7 2462 motherboard. You might like to deck it out with two MP2G+ CPUs (cheap but effective). I'd look at 4 IBM 80GB+ 7200rpm IDE drives off the RAID storage (on the 3WARE 7500-4 controller) and one 60GB 7200rpm IDE boot drive on which I'd install my OS. For the boot drive I would use a 40GB or 60GB RAID1 using a 2-port 3ware card. There's nothing quite like the hell of that lone hard drive going bad at an inopprotune time. Granted that redundancy on the boot drive is nice, you could run it off a RAID controller, but then it you ever update the OS, and happen to lose your RAID driver you are kind of HOSED! Better to use a hardware IDE mirroring solution that totally hides the fact behind a standard ATA interface. Given the complexity of that, I'd risk having the boot drive not mirrored. You can always use the Linux HD driver to mirror two IDE boot drives, and use that to provide some redundancy. Again, your mileage may vary on this approach. Watch out for the hardware RAID5 on those 3ware cards. The performance on those is... disappointing to say the least. Really? What was your setup? I too found them disappointing in 32-bit slots. But in the Tyan K7 64-bit 66MHz PCI slots they simply roar!! Oh, I did have to mess around with the driver. I found the driver provided by 3Ware out-performed the standard Linux kernel one significantly in 2.4.18 kernel. On one of my servers switching from hardware RAID5 to software RAID5 tripled (!!!) throughput. I went from 15MB/sec writing to 50MB/sec writing and 30MB/sec reading to 75MB/sec reading (aka a saturated PCI bus). I expect it to go faster, at least when reading, once I put the controller (I was using a 7500-4) in a 64-bit slot. 64-bit PCI at 66 MHz = 64 X 66 /8 = 528 Mbytes/sec at 100% bandwidth saturation and 0 latency. Your 75 MB/sec seems VERY poor if it was in a 64-bit slot, but is approx. what I got in a 32-bit PCI slot. The Tyan K7 motherboard I suggested has 64-bit 66MHz PCI slots. FYI: The theoretical 0 latency I/O limit of a 32-bit 33MHz PCI slot is: 32 * 33 /8 = 132 Mbytes/sec. If you got 75MBytes/sec out of it that is NOT bad. 32-Bit PCI is NOT a good solution for file and print sharing for 50+ users, considering how cheap a 64-Bit PCI solution is now. Considering that each WD 60GB 7200 rpm drive I used is rated by the manufacturer at a sustainable I/O rate of 37.6 MBytes/sec, with 3 drives the theoretical sustainable I/O is 3 x 37.6 = 112.8 Mbytes/sec. The 3Ware RAID controller has an 8MB cache on each drive, hence the peak of 452 Mbytes/sec, not sustainable under heavy write load. An excellent solution would be to get a 7500-8 - 2 ports for booting, and 4 of the other 6 in a JBOD for use with software RAID. If you use IDE drives with software RAID5 dual CPUs are a must. Consider 1Gb/s ethernet to an etherswitch that has 1 Gb/s port and the rest 100Mb/s. Gigabit could be considered overkill. I hope I have answered this point very clearly above. Using 100-Base-T this will be the system I/O bottleneck. PS: The 3WARE IDE RAID give you an I/O bandwidth of up to 452MB/s, compared with 320 Mbits/s on fastest SCSI. Big difference in poerformance! Be aware that those are pure numbers that, unfortunately, don't translate into the real world. I hope I addressed this adequately above. My experience is that the U320 SCSI will easily give the
RE: [Samba] What project should I use ?
Only commenting on the exchange server replacement. I heard bynari is in financial trounble. Someone recently reccomended HP openmail, actually HP sold it to someone a few years ago. I think samsung? I may be wrong. You're correct. Samsung have bought Openmail from HP, it's now called Samsung Contact. The word is that the Openmail development team now work for Samsung, at least that's what I've read around the traps. It certainly looks interesting, we looked at Openmail a couple years ago as a potential Exchange replacement, had the evaluation version running successfully with several clients. I was impressed with it, though I thought some of the administration functions could've been streamlined a little. Samsung have a demo version of Contact for download, I have it, though I've yet to install it -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba
Re: [Samba] What project should I use ?
Phil, One of the things that really spooked me while doing my benchmark tests is the impact made by the file system type. I forgot to make mention of that in my reply. Ext2fs is by far the fastest file system on Linux. Ext3fs is the slowest, ReiserFS is in between them. One of the things I want to do soon is to benchmark XFS and JFS against Ext2fs and Ext3fs. In tests done recently Ext2fs gives more than 3 times the write I/O throughput of Ext3fs. This should not be construed as critical of Linux file systems, but when one is chasing every ounce of I/O and the file system type becomes a bottleneck then it does matter. PS: This also becomes more critical as the number of Samba users with concurrent write access exceeds 20. - John T. -- John H Terpstra Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba
Re: [Samba] What project should I use ?
John H Terpstra wrote: Oooh, I think I should add some of my know-how... Indeed! And I hope you don't mind my reply - no criticism intended. Not at all. Criticism is good. It can point out mistakes one may not realize. I'd build a box using 3WARE IDE RAID - it's faster and more cost effective than SCSI is today. I dunno about the performance, but the price is certianly right. From my evaluations on SuSE Linux 8.1 and Caldera OpenLinux 3.11 (with 2.4.18 kernel) using 3 x 60GB WD 7200 IDE drives on a 7500-4 controller I could get peak I/O of 452 MBytes/sec, and a sustainable I/O rate of over 100 MBytes/sec. That is not exactly a 'dunno' performance situation. These tests were done using dbench and RAID5. I was using bonnie and RAID5. There is a difference in drives - I was using Seagate Barracuda IVs; you were using the WD Special Edition drives with 8MB cache (the Barracudas have a 2MB cache). For the boot drive I would use a 40GB or 60GB RAID1 using a 2-port 3ware card. There's nothing quite like the hell of that lone hard drive going bad at an inopprotune time. Granted that redundancy on the boot drive is nice, you could run it off a RAID controller, but then it you ever update the OS, and happen to lose your RAID driver you are kind of HOSED! In this case the RAID driver is the same as for the RAID5 data store. If you lose that driver you're hosed period :) Watch out for the hardware RAID5 on those 3ware cards. The performance on those is... disappointing to say the least. Really? What was your setup? I too found them disappointing in 32-bit slots. But in the Tyan K7 64-bit 66MHz PCI slots they simply roar!! Oh, I did have to mess around with the driver. I've used 6410, 7410, and 7500-4 cards in Supermicro P3TDL3 and 370DLE motherboards - they have 2 64/66 PCI slots on a dedicated bus. The difference between the motherboards: The 370DLE supports up to 2 1GHz Coppermine PIIIs and lacks a U160 SCSI controller The P3TDL3 supports up to 2 1GHz Coppermine or 1.4GHz Tualatin PIIIs and sports a U160 SCSI controller These motherboards have ServerWorks ServerSet III LE chipsets. Each system had either 1GHz Coppermine or 1.13GHz Tualatin CPUs and 1GB ECC RAM from Crucial. The OS is Debian 3.0 with kernel 2.4.19. I found the driver provided by 3Ware out-performed the standard Linux kernel one significantly in 2.4.18 kernel. That could well cause the difference in performance numbers we see. Hrm... the driver from 3ware's website is the same as the driver in 2.4.20, and both are radically different from 2.4.19. Something to play with! Your 75 MB/sec seems VERY poor if it was in a 64-bit slot, but is approx. what I got in a 32-bit PCI slot. The Tyan K7 motherboard I suggested has 64-bit 66MHz PCI slots. The saturated PCI bus was with a 6410 - a 32/33 4-port PCI card, as well as a 7500-4 in a 32/33 PCI slot. Like I said, I expect to go faster once I put it in a 64-bit PCI slot. AFAIK the 3ware cards are all 33MHz. FYI: The theoretical 0 latency I/O limit of a 32-bit 33MHz PCI slot is: 32 * 33 /8 = 132 Mbytes/sec. If you got 75MBytes/sec out of it that is NOT bad. 32-Bit PCI is NOT a good solution for file and print sharing for 50+ users, considering how cheap a 64-Bit PCI solution is now. Agreed. 75MB/sec is pretty good considering that it involves (I think) a minimum of 4 transactions to get a single stripe of data (1 PCI write, 1 PCI read for each drive carrying half of the stripe) (drawn out for the benefit of the people on the list). The cheaper of the Supermicro boards (and it's relatives) I mentioned go for under $100 USD on eBay and are great deals if you're not opposed to used/refurbished hardware (again drawn out for the benefit of those on the list :). Gigabit could be considered overkill. I hope I have answered this point very clearly above. Using 100-Base-T this will be the system I/O bottleneck. Once you pointed out what we're doing differently, I have to agree. You mileage may vary! ;) Indeed! -- Phil Brutsche [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba
Re: [Samba] What project should I use ?
John H Terpstra wrote: Phil, One of the things that really spooked me while doing my benchmark tests is the impact made by the file system type. I forgot to make mention of that in my reply. Ext2fs is by far the fastest file system on Linux. Ext3fs is the slowest, ReiserFS is in between them. One of the things I want to do soon is to benchmark XFS and JFS against Ext2fs and Ext3fs. Yes, I noticed. I use ext3 because a fsck on a 200GB+ ext2 filesystem kinda kills the productivity of one's co-workers - especially sales reps who rely heavily on email and might as well go home for the rest of the day if they can't get to their IMAP mailboxes while fsck does it's job for a few hours (on some of my systems using the older slower 3ware driver that we talked about fsck would run for 4 or 5 hours, hence my choice of ext3). [1] All my performance tests used ext2 as a base, but were also done with ext3 just to see what a difference it would make. I should also mention it makes a BIG difference what block device your ext3 journal resides on. My (informal) testing is that, compared to ext2, XFS *feels* slower, and JFS *feels* faster. I use neither, as NetBSD NFS clients don't seem to like 'em. In tests done recently Ext2fs gives more than 3 times the write I/O throughput of Ext3fs. Depending on your tests, of course. I can understand how ext3 vs ext2 would make such a difference to dbench. I didn't see much difference with bonnie. [1] OK how's that for a long sentence :) -- Phil Brutsche [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba
