[sane-devel] more actions fore sane 1.1
Hi all, On Saturday 01 March 2008 20:35:30 Oliver Rauch wrote: Am Samstag, den 01.03.2008, 13:39 +0100 schrieb Alessandro Zummo: no? mine is to tweak, yours is not to tweak.. I'd say they are quite different :) BTW: in every stupid comment there is a bit truth Now I see that tweaking is your goal and so I understand why we don`t find a conclusion. My intention is to improve SANE. If it is not for a gradual and compatible improvement of SANE, but a significant rewrite it would make more sense to adapt an wide deployed industrial standard such as TWAIN, than spending human years of efford just to rewrite everything from scratch. SANE and TWAIN are not that far from each other anyway and this would also make it easier for vendors to support Linux beside Mac and the other os. Not that this would be my primary choice, but it definetly would be saner than rewriting SANE just for the fun of it. And I also want to point out once more that during a major rewite we'll probably loose drivers for old hardware as there will be few people re-writing a backend for the oldest devices most developers do not have anymore. Yours, -- Ren? Rebe - ExactCODE GmbH - Europe, Germany, Berlin http://exactcode.de | http://t2-project.org | http://rene.rebe.name
[sane-devel] more actions fore sane 1.1
Am Sonntag, den 02.03.2008, 13:05 +0100 schri If it is not for a gradual and compatible improvement of SANE, but a significant rewrite it would make more sense to adapt an wide deployed industrial standard such as TWAIN, SANE and TWAIN work on different levels. SANE is an interface between a scanner driver and a scanning frontend. TWAIN is an interface between a scanning frontend and a program that uses or post process the image (word, photoshop). Yon can create a TWAIN2SANE tool which is compatible to both interfaces, such a tool already exists. Best regards Oliver
[sane-devel] more actions fore sane 1.1
Am Sonntag, den 02.03.2008, 13:05 +0100 schrieb Ren? Rebe: And I also want to point out once more that during a major rewite we'll probably loose drivers for old hardware as there will be few people re-writing a backend for the oldest devices most developers do not have anymore. This is not necessarily true. It is possible to create a frontend that can handle sane-1 and sane-2 backends. It would not take much work to do this when you start with a frontend that already supports sane-1 backends. Best regards Oliver
[sane-devel] more actions fore sane 1.1
On Sunday 02 March 2008 13:32:17 Oliver Rauch wrote: Am Sonntag, den 02.03.2008, 13:05 +0100 schri If it is not for a gradual and compatible improvement of SANE, but a significant rewrite it would make more sense to adapt an wide deployed industrial standard such as TWAIN, SANE and TWAIN work on different levels. Not really. TWAIN also has the DataSource, the backend driver, a DataSourceManager multiplexing between the sources and the applications, and the frontend applications. The architecture is mostly the same. And yes, the data sources can be user interfae- less. Please note that I wrote a SANE backend, frontend as wel as TWAIN data sources and a TWAIN application. SANE is an interface between a scanner driver and a scanning frontend. TWAIN is an interface between a scanning frontend and a program that uses or post process the image (word, photoshop). Exactly the same is TWAIN. Yon can create a TWAIN2SANE tool which is compatible to both interfaces, such a tool already exists. Yes, I know - especially as simillar as they are. PS: Can you please conform to list netiquete and reply to the original authors of a mail? I do not have the time to poll all my sorted list boxes all the time just for users who to nod know their reply all button / keybinding. Yours, -- Ren? Rebe - ExactCODE GmbH - Europe, Germany, Berlin http://exactcode.de | http://t2-project.org | http://rene.rebe.name
[sane-devel] more actions fore sane 1.1
Am Sonntag, den 02.03.2008, 18:14 +0100 schrieb Ren? Rebe: Not really. TWAIN also has the DataSource, the backend driver, a DataSourceManager multiplexing between the sources and the applications, and the frontend applications. The architecture is mostly the same. And yes, the data sources can be user interfae- less. This is correct, but you can not use frontend A with driver B. And AFAIK almost all TWAIN drivers do not work with disabled user interface, at least I got this information some years ago from the chairman of TWAIN. So there is missing the frontend level when you disable the userinterface in the driver. With the existing TWAIN drivers you can not do what you can do with SANE and what SANE is planned for: use any frontend with any backend. In theory you may be right that TWAIN could do what you propose, the fact is different. And AFAIR the intention of TWAIN is the following: APPLICATION__(TWAIN)__(DATA_SOURCE_MANAGER)__DATA_SOURCE_WITH_USERINTERFACE the following would work but is far away from what is fact and what is planned for TWAIN: APPLICATION_WITH_USERINTERFACE__(TWAIN)__(DATA_SOURCE_MANAGER)__DATA_SOURCE_WITHOUT_USERINTERFACE and this one would work but I don`t think that this is the idea of TWAIN: APPLICATION__(TWAIN)__(DATA_SOURCE_MANAGER)__DATA_SOURCE_AS_USERINTERFACE__(TWAIN)__(DATA_SOURCE_MANAGER)__DATA_SOURCE_WITHOUT_UI So the TWAIN_SANE version is the most intelligent one for me: APPLICATION__(TWAIN)__(DATA_SOURCE_MANAGER)__DATA_SOURCE_WITH_SANE_FRONTEND__SANE_BACKEND PS: Can you please conform to list netiquete and reply to the original authors of a mail? I do not have the time to poll all my sorted list boxes all the time just for users who to nod know their reply all button / keybinding. When you like I will reply to _all_ for your mails now. Several sane-devel people complain when you do this because they don`t like it because they get the mails twice. I also don`t like this, so please would you answer only to _the list_ not to _all_ in my case (or may be in the case of sane-devel). Best regards Oliver
[sane-devel] more actions fore sane 1.1
Hi, On Sunday 02 March 2008 20:39:32 Oliver Rauch wrote: Am Sonntag, den 02.03.2008, 18:14 +0100 schrieb Ren? Rebe: Not really. TWAIN also has the DataSource, the backend driver, a DataSourceManager multiplexing between the sources and the applications, and the frontend applications. The architecture is mostly the same. And yes, the data sources can be user interfae- less. This is correct, but you can not use frontend A with driver B. And AFAIK almost all TWAIN drivers do not work with disabled user interface, at For proper support on OS X (e.g. by Apple's apps thru Image Capture) the source must support the userinterface less mode. least I got this information some years ago from the chairman of TWAIN. Might be the case a decade ago under Windows, yes. Some still don't today, yes. However, this does not stop us from using it properly in an open source SANE replacement. So there is missing the frontend level when you disable the userinterface in the driver. The frontend is the application, just as with SANE??? With the existing TWAIN drivers you can not do what you can do with SANE and what SANE is planned for: use any frontend with any backend. Yes, as with TWAIN, use a TWAIN application with any TWAIN Data Source. PS: Can you please conform to list netiquete and reply to the original authors of a mail? I do not have the time to poll all my sorted list boxes all the time just for users who to nod know their reply all button / keybinding. When you like I will reply to _all_ for your mails now. Several sane-devel people complain when you do this because they don`t like it because they get the mails twice. I also don`t like this, so please would you answer only to _the list_ not to _all_ in my case (or may be in the case of sane-devel). Never noticed complains, only noticed that I constly loose interests in SANE threads when I do not receive respones in my inbox while working on code. Whatever. Have a nice Sunday evening, -- Ren? Rebe - ExactCODE GmbH - Europe, Germany, Berlin http://exactcode.de | http://t2-project.org | http://rene.rebe.name
[sane-devel] more actions fore sane 1.1
On Freitag, 29. Februar 2008, Alessandro Zummo wrote: On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:59:06 +0100 Gerhard Jaeger gerhard at gjaeger.de wrote: Now if the other developers here can declare their intentions and the way they want to implement them, we can have a better picture of the thing that's going on and we can see if and how we can work together toward the same target. He - nice try! I think we agreed in adding some stuff, namely new FRAME_TYPES in the short term - others are for 2.x. We now have new frame-types - that's okay - BUT all other drawbacks we currently have in 1.x should and must be addressed by sane 2.x No more tweaks - compatible or not! Well it seems that we have different goals then :) I don't think so ;) - Gerhard
[sane-devel] more actions fore sane 1.1
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 13:23:47 +0100 Gerhard Jaeger gerhard at gjaeger.de wrote: We now have new frame-types - that's okay - BUT all other drawbacks we currently have in 1.x should and must be addressed by sane 2.x No more tweaks - compatible or not! Well it seems that we have different goals then :) I don't think so ;) no? mine is to tweak, yours is not to tweak.. I'd say they are quite different :) -- Best regards, Alessandro Zummo, Tower Technologies - Torino, Italy http://www.towertech.it
[sane-devel] more actions fore sane 1.1
Am Samstag, den 01.03.2008, 13:39 +0100 schrieb Alessandro Zummo: no? mine is to tweak, yours is not to tweak.. I'd say they are quite different :) BTW: in every stupid comment there is a bit truth Now I see that tweaking is your goal and so I understand why we don`t find a conclusion. My intention is to improve SANE. Best regards Oliver
[sane-devel] more actions fore sane 1.1
Does a german and an itilian understand the same thing behind Tweaking ? ;) ?tienne.
[sane-devel] more actions fore sane 1.1
Am Samstag, den 01.03.2008, 21:03 +0100 schrieb ?tienne Bersac: Does a german and an itilian understand the same thing behind Tweaking ? ;) Don`t know what you understand behind tweaking, I understand it as a bad, unconventional improvement in an improper way. Best regards Oliver
[sane-devel] more actions fore sane 1.1
Hi, That's the shame with english. When will SANE switch to Esperanto ;) Regards, ?tienne.
[sane-devel] more actions fore sane 1.1
?tienne Bersac bersace03 at gmail.com wrote: That's the shame with english. When will SANE switch to Esperanto ;) Let's add that as a requirement for SANE2. JB. -- Julien BLACHE http://www.jblache.org jb at jblache.org GPG KeyID 0xF5D65169
[sane-devel] more actions fore sane 1.1
On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:59:06 +0100 Gerhard Jaeger gerhard at gjaeger.de wrote: Now if the other developers here can declare their intentions and the way they want to implement them, we can have a better picture of the thing that's going on and we can see if and how we can work together toward the same target. He - nice try! I think we agreed in adding some stuff, namely new FRAME_TYPES in the short term - others are for 2.x. We now have new frame-types - that's okay - BUT all other drawbacks we currently have in 1.x should and must be addressed by sane 2.x No more tweaks - compatible or not! Well it seems that we have different goals then :) -- Best regards, Alessandro Zummo, Tower Technologies - Torino, Italy http://www.towertech.it
[sane-devel] more actions fore sane 1.1
while we are discussing how to implement new features, here are a couple of things that i'd like to see: - a way to obtain some more info about the scanner. I always missed a way to ask the scanner for vendor, model and serial number. the only option available right now is to cache them during the initial roundup. - a way to specify the scan area without having to keep track of the corner options This could be easily implemented with an appropriate action. - a way to handle the lamp warming up problem Still have to think about how to implement this in a reasonable way. Obviously all must be done in a compatible way. I'd love if other people can add their requirements so we can all see in which direction we must drive sane. -- Best regards, Alessandro Zummo, Tower Technologies - Torino, Italy http://www.towertech.it
[sane-devel] more actions fore sane 1.1
Add some more things and we are close to sane2. Don`t you think you already lost control about what you started? Please take a step back and take a look at what you are doing. Oliver Am Donnerstag, den 28.02.2008, 23:39 +0100 schrieb Alessandro Zummo: while we are discussing how to implement new features, here are a couple of things that i'd like to see: - a way to obtain some more info about the scanner. I always missed a way to ask the scanner for vendor, model and serial number. the only option available right now is to cache them during the initial roundup. - a way to specify the scan area without having to keep track of the corner options This could be easily implemented with an appropriate action. - a way to handle the lamp warming up problem Still have to think about how to implement this in a reasonable way. Obviously all must be done in a compatible way. I'd love if other people can add their requirements so we can all see in which direction we must drive sane. -- Best regards, Alessandro Zummo, Tower Technologies - Torino, Italy http://www.towertech.it
[sane-devel] more actions fore sane 1.1
yes- i am now inclined to agree with you, oliver. allan On 2/28/08, Oliver Rauch oliver.rauch at rauch-domain.de wrote: Add some more things and we are close to sane2. Don`t you think you already lost control about what you started? Please take a step back and take a look at what you are doing. Oliver Am Donnerstag, den 28.02.2008, 23:39 +0100 schrieb Alessandro Zummo: while we are discussing how to implement new features, here are a couple of things that i'd like to see: - a way to obtain some more info about the scanner. I always missed a way to ask the scanner for vendor, model and serial number. the only option available right now is to cache them during the initial roundup. - a way to specify the scan area without having to keep track of the corner options This could be easily implemented with an appropriate action. - a way to handle the lamp warming up problem Still have to think about how to implement this in a reasonable way. Obviously all must be done in a compatible way. I'd love if other people can add their requirements so we can all see in which direction we must drive sane. -- Best regards, Alessandro Zummo, Tower Technologies - Torino, Italy http://www.towertech.it -- sane-devel mailing list: sane-devel at lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/sane-devel Unsubscribe: Send mail with subject unsubscribe your_password to sane-devel-request at lists.alioth.debian.org -- The truth is an offense, but not a sin
[sane-devel] more actions fore sane 1.1
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:49:34 -0500 m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote: yes- i am now inclined to agree with you, oliver. Don`t you think you already lost control about what you started? Please take a step back and take a look at what you are doing. well, maybe I should declare my intentions in a cleaner way. I would like to evolve sane by little steps, one after another, while keeping compatibility. I want to do that by adding new frame types and new actions. Now if the other developers here can declare their intentions and the way they want to implement them, we can have a better picture of the thing that's going on and we can see if and how we can work together toward the same target. -- Best regards, Alessandro Zummo, Tower Technologies - Torino, Italy http://www.towertech.it
