Re: [Savannah-hackers] submission of Narya Forum and Project Incubator - savannah.nongnu.org
On Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 08:58:30PM -0500, Terry Hancock wrote: Only because you think that words are more important than actions. Different word convey different ideas. Remember you are rejecting what I do because of what I CALL it. Not what it is. What it is is what is important to me. And I find your terminology obstructive to the success of the substance of the matter. This is not true. I do not reject what you do. I reject your project because it doesn't comply with the Savannah policy. If having success means giving up on my ideals I feel fine without success. Read the following text http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-for-freedom.html if you want -- Rudy Gevaert[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web pagehttp://www.webworm.org GNU/Linux for schools http://www.nongnu.org/glms Savannah hacker http://savannah.gnu.org ___ Savannah-hackers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/savannah-hackers
Re: [Savannah-hackers] submission of Narya Forum and Project Incubator - savannah.nongnu.org
On Thursday 25 September 2003 09:52 am, Rudy Gevaert wrote: On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 09:14:21AM -0500, Terry Hancock wrote: Sorry. I withdraw my request. I am not so desperate for a CVS server that I must submit to ideological tyranny to get it. Clearly, you do not support the Free Software movement and thus do not deserve to make use of our services. It is your freedom to not support us, but it is also our freedom to not let you use our Savannah services. Only because you think that words are more important than actions. Remember you are rejecting what I do because of what I CALL it. Not what it is. What it is is what is important to me. And I find your terminology obstructive to the success of the substance of the matter. I fully support your right to use your server however you want. But don't kid yourself that you hold any kind of moral high-ground. -- Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com ) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com ___ Savannah-hackers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/savannah-hackers
Re: [Savannah-hackers] submission of Narya Forum and Project Incubator - savannah.nongnu.org
On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 06:03:49AM -0500, Terry Hancock wrote: On Tuesday 23 September 2003 02:59 am, Rudy Gevaert wrote: Are developing a client that uses only free software? If you do we can host your project. It is not possible to host the free client here and the non free client here too. There is no non-free client. The web page you didn't have time to read explained that in some detail. *Grrr* Shame on you! You don't have to get hostile. Your page was to long to read. I describe Java 2 as a problem, because many 3rd party Java applets that would've been nice to use rely on it. Which makes them unavailable for precisely the reasons you state. Yet they are perceived to fill the gap, so there's little motivation to replace them with unencumbered client software. Since I don't write Java, I find that unfortunate, and I wrote an article discussing alternative possibilities: some based on Free JVMs and some eschewing Java altogether. Narya, of course, is a *server side* application -- a thick client is just something on my wishlist at the moment, anyway: advanced applications like collaborative CAD would need it. As it is now, it contains no Java whatsoever. Anyway, if the misconception that I have a proprietary dependency is the only reason you have for rejecting the project, I trust you will reverse this decision? If you said this in your registration text, I would have accepted it at once. This is much more clearer that you text on your web page. And much shorter. Please register your project once more. We cannot track projects that have been answered but not approved, so we must ask you to register the project whenever you change the registration. Make sure to apply all changes so you need to reregister only once. The re-registration URL found in our acknowledgement of your earlier registration will direct you to the proper location. Please place a note in the submitted text that I already approved this project. Regards, Rudy -- Rudy Gevaert[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web pagehttp://www.webworm.org GNU/Linux for schools http://www.nongnu.org/glms Savannah hacker http://savannah.gnu.org ___ Savannah-hackers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/savannah-hackers
Re: [Savannah-hackers] submission of Narya Forum and Project Incubator - savannah.nongnu.org
I forgot, please do not forget the comments I made in my first mail about you using the term opensource and to missing copyright and permission to copy statements. If this is fixed I'll approve your project! -- Rudy Gevaert[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web pagehttp://www.webworm.org GNU/Linux for schools http://www.nongnu.org/glms Savannah hacker http://savannah.gnu.org ___ Savannah-hackers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/savannah-hackers
Re: [Savannah-hackers] submission of Narya Forum and Project Incubator - savannah.nongnu.org
On Thursday 25 September 2003 06:23 am, Rudy Gevaert wrote: I forgot, please do not forget the comments I made in my first mail about you using the term opensource If you think that I'm going to alter the text on my *own company webpages* to HELP you force people into such a stupid conflict, then you are mistaken. And you apparently have a very funny idea of what Freedom means. The words Free Software and Open Source, to any disinterested observer are simply different contractions of the more precise expression Free-Licensed Open-Source Software. I have come to the definite conclusion that any distinction between these concepts is both SPECIOUS and FACTIOUS and serves no function to the developers nor to the users. If the source isn't open, it can't be free, and if it isn't free, then the source isn't open. For software, there is no difference. This distinction has served only to confuse newcomers, and to cause dissention among developers and users. I refuse to take either side in such an irrelevant conflict. If this is fixed I'll approve your project! Sorry. I withdraw my request. I am not so desperate for a CVS server that I must submit to ideological tyranny to get it. Terry Hancock -- Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com ) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com ___ Savannah-hackers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/savannah-hackers
Re: [Savannah-hackers] submission of Narya Forum and Project Incubator - savannah.nongnu.org
On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 09:14:21AM -0500, Terry Hancock wrote: Sorry. I withdraw my request. I am not so desperate for a CVS server that I must submit to ideological tyranny to get it. Clearly, you do not support the Free Software movement and thus do not deserve to make use of our services. It is your freedom to not support us, but it is also our freedom to not let you use our Savannah services. -- Rudy Gevaert[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web pagehttp://www.webworm.org GNU/Linux for schools http://www.nongnu.org/glms Savannah hacker http://savannah.gnu.org ___ Savannah-hackers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/savannah-hackers
Re: [Savannah-hackers] submission of Narya Forum and Project Incubator - savannah.nongnu.org
On Mon, Sep 22, 2003 at 06:22:51PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A package was submitted to savannah.nongnu.org This mail was sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Terry Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] described the package as follows: License: gpl Other License: Package: Narya Forum and Project Incubator System name: narya Type: non-GNU Description: The Narya Project is a web-application-based Forum and Project-Incubator which will (eventually) combine discussion, workflow and content management, collaborative development, full-text document and data archive, brick-and-mortar library integration, collective financing, reverse auction, catalog sales, and manufacturing and service resource planning into an open free-market model based on the principles of open-source development. Its central design paradigm is a hierarchical topic tree with multiple topic views derived from content and integrated applications. Note that Savannah supports projects of the Free Software movement, not projects of the Open Source movement. We are careful about ethical issues and insist on producing software that is not dependent on proprietary software. While Open Source as defined by its founders means something pretty close to Free Software, it's frequently misunderstood. For more information, read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-for-freedom.html More detail is available at http://www.narya.net and links thereunder. In order to release your project properly and unambiguously under the GPL, please place copyright notices and permission-to-copy statements at the beginning of every file of source code. I have seen at least one file that didn't have the copyright notices and permission-to-copy statements. In addition, if you haven't already, please copy a copy of the plain text version of the GPL, available from (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt), into a file named COPYING. Additional instructions are available from http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-howto.html. The GPL FAQ explains why these procedures must be followed. To learn why a copy of the GPL must be included with every copy of the code, for example, go to http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#WhyMustIInclude The last published source code may be found in the Sourceforge project CVS for http://sourceforge.net/projects/spacelift . I am currently in the middle of a massive reorganization of the code, and have not uploaded the result. However, this does not involve substantial new code or dependencies so much as a reorganization of existing code. Basically, I'm looking to start over with the CVS, since the directory structure is now quite different from the original. I wrote a paper for presentation at the 2003 International Space Development Conference in San Jose, which is included in (gv-compatible) PDF at http://www.anansispaceworks.com/papers_html which describes the current design changes. Other Software Required: Python 2.1+ Zope 2.5.1+ VarImage 2.3+ (a Zope Product I maintain) Various python libraries: stripogram, pystemmer, python imaging library I expect to have components dependent on pythoncad, pyogg, pyvorbis, and several other components. Maybe even Blender at some point. By its nature, Narya will tend to accumulate a lot of dependencies, since it is basically a highly-pluggable framework. Regarding Java 2 and the clientside, I've written a description of some of the options at http://www.narya.net/client_html . We have a bit of a problem in finding adequate clientside tools to integrate that don't require Swing or other Java 2 features, and I feel I will need help from other people interested in an effective free clientside for more advanced Narya features. But this is certainly an important goal for us. I didn't have the time to read the full paper. Your project requires proprietary software and cannot be hosted on Savannah for this reason. Savannah is willing to provide resources and time to developers writing Free Software that can be used without the need to ask permission from a proprietary software vendor. If, someday, you get free of those dependencies (see http://www.gnu.org/software/java for more information), do not hesitate to resubmit your project. Thank you for your understanding. Are developing a client that uses only free software? If you do we can host your project. It is not possible to host the free client here and the non free client here too. Regards, Rudy Other Comments: An older version of this project is in the Source Forge CVS for the spacelift project, but there have been substantial changes, and the project has grown to the point where it really needs to have its own site. Essentially this is a point where we need a new start on the CVS, anyway. Eventually, of course, Narya will be able to host its own project site, but it is not that stable yet (by a
[Savannah-hackers] submission of Narya Forum and Project Incubator - savannah.nongnu.org
A package was submitted to savannah.nongnu.org This mail was sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Terry Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] described the package as follows: License: gpl Other License: Package: Narya Forum and Project Incubator System name: narya Type: non-GNU Description: The Narya Project is a web-application-based Forum and Project-Incubator which will (eventually) combine discussion, workflow and content management, collaborative development, full-text document and data archive, brick-and-mortar library integration, collective financing, reverse auction, catalog sales, and manufacturing and service resource planning into an open free-market model based on the principles of open-source development. Its central design paradigm is a hierarchical topic tree with multiple topic views derived from content and integrated applications. More detail is available at http://www.narya.net and links thereunder. The last published source code may be found in the Sourceforge project CVS for http://sourceforge.net/projects/spacelift . I am currently in the middle of a massive reorganization of the code, and have not uploaded the result. However, this does not involve substantial new code or dependencies so much as a reorganization of existing code. Basically, I'm looking to start over with the CVS, since the directory structure is now quite different from the original. I wrote a paper for presentation at the 2003 International Space Development Conference in San Jose, which is included in (gv-compatible) PDF at http://www.anansispaceworks.com/papers_html which describes the current design changes. Other Software Required: Python 2.1+ Zope 2.5.1+ VarImage 2.3+ (a Zope Product I maintain) Various python libraries: stripogram, pystemmer, python imaging library I expect to have components dependent on pythoncad, pyogg, pyvorbis, and several other components. Maybe even Blender at some point. By its nature, Narya will tend to accumulate a lot of dependencies, since it is basically a highly-pluggable framework. Regarding Java 2 and the clientside, I've written a description of some of the options at http://www.narya.net/client_html . We have a bit of a problem in finding adequate clientside tools to integrate that don't require Swing or other Java 2 features, and I feel I will need help from other people interested in an effective free clientside for more advanced Narya features. But this is certainly an important goal for us. Other Comments: An older version of this project is in the Source Forge CVS for the spacelift project, but there have been substantial changes, and the project has grown to the point where it really needs to have its own site. Essentially this is a point where we need a new start on the CVS, anyway. Eventually, of course, Narya will be able to host its own project site, but it is not that stable yet (by a long shot!). ___ Message sent via/by Savannah http://savannah.gnu.org/ ___ Savannah-hackers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/savannah-hackers
