Re: [SC-L] Language agnostic secure coding guidelines/standards?

2008-11-21 Thread Dave Wichers
I'd like to mention that OWASP is about to release a Beta version of its
Application Security Verification Standard (ASVS) - Web Application
Edition.

This standard (which is language agnostic) provides a checklist of
security requirements that web applications should meet and it is
organized into increasing levels of difficulty based on the techniques
you use to assess the application. The first level is based on what
automated code analysis and external scanning tools can find. The second
level is based on what human verifiers can find (who may use automated
tools to assist them) doing code analysis and/or application penetration
testing. There is also a third and fourth level that add additional
requirements in the areas of architecture review, threat modeling, and
the avoidance of malicious code.

I would think that this document would serve as a great reference to
pull from in order to gather a set of language independent secure coding
guidelines since this is essentially the list of application security
best practices that OWASP believes web applications need to meet in
order to provide a baseline level of security. These requirements
clearly don't include every security issue a web application may need to
address but it defines the foundational requirements that we believe
every application should meet.

An Alpha version of this standard is already publicly available at:
http://www.owasp.org/index.php/ASVS

And the Beta release is close to completion and should come out sometime
this December.

I have cc'd Mike Boberski who is the project lead for this OWASP Summer
of Code 2008 project. You can contact either of us (as well as Jeff
Williams) if you have any questions about this new OWASP Standard as the
three of us are the primary authors of this document.

-Dave

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Werner
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 1:40 AM
To: Secure Coding
Subject: Re: [SC-L] Language agnostic secure coding
guidelines/standards?

Hi All

Thank you for your replies, they have been very useful and will
certainly help identifying things that need to appear in the standard.
We're trying to make the standard something that is easily auditable,
and have decided to further split items into two categories, those that
should checked in development and those that should appear in the
project  documentation (e.g. things like definitions of log
integrity/confidentiality requirements etc).

I'm also happy to say that within our organisation we already have
secure coding training available for developers, support channels for
developers with queries, language specific guidance, automated tools
that can be used to detect software flaws as well as an internal
auditing and pentesting function. Needless to say it's been a big effort
to get all this in place. The policy is an important piece of the puzzle
which will hopefully help ensure the training and tools are utilised by
developers.

These things are all great, but from an organisational perspective one
of the most important things for us is the ongoing risk management of
identified issues. We have a lot of applications in various stages of
development and production, and a lot of developers. Tracking known
issues, remediation timelines, and who is responsible for what is also a
very big part of it, especially in larger organisations. Again I'm happy
to say we have an internally developed system for doing this.

Rather than just giving myself a gold star on a mailing list, I would
say to the vendors here interoperability is a big thing for us, as no
one product does it all to the level we require (and it's unlikely they
ever will). We are far more likely to buy things that play nicely with
what we have already, and so far, most of the tools we use do. Gold
stars all round.

Anyway, thanks again for all the information.

Cheers,
Pete

On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 8:00 AM, Gary McGraw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> badness-ometer-pedia!  most excellent descriptive phrase.  You guys
should change the official name!
>
> Incidentally, one of the best uses data like these can be put to is
training.
>
> gem
>
> company www.cigital.com
> podcast www.cigital.com/silverbullet
> blog www.cigital.com/justiceleague
> book www.swsec.com
>
>
> On 11/17/08 4:49 PM, "Steven M. Christey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>
>
> The CWE Research view (CWE-1000) is language-neutral at its
higher-level
> nodes, and decomposes in some areas into language-specific constructs.
> Early experience suggests that this view is not necessarily
> developer-friendly, however, because it's not organized around the
types
> of concepts that developers typically think in.
>
> http://cwe.mitre.org/data/definitions/1000.html
>
> (click the Graph tab on the top right of the page to see the

Re: [SC-L] Language agnostic secure coding guidelines/standards?

2008-11-21 Thread Pete Werner
Hi All

Thank you for your replies, they have been very useful and will
certainly help identifying things that need to appear in the standard.
We're trying to make the standard something that is easily auditable,
and have decided to further split items into two categories, those that
should checked in development and those that should appear in the
project  documentation (e.g. things like definitions of log
integrity/confidentiality requirements etc).

I'm also happy to say that within our organisation we already have
secure coding training available for developers, support channels for
developers with queries, language specific guidance, automated tools
that can be used to detect software flaws as well as an internal
auditing and pentesting function. Needless to say it's been a big effort
to get all this in place. The policy is an important piece of the puzzle
which will hopefully help ensure the training and tools are utilised by
developers.

These things are all great, but from an organisational perspective one
of the most important things for us is the ongoing risk management of
identified issues. We have a lot of applications in various stages of
development and production, and a lot of developers. Tracking known
issues, remediation timelines, and who is responsible for what is also a
very big part of it, especially in larger organisations. Again I'm happy
to say we have an internally developed system for doing this.

Rather than just giving myself a gold star on a mailing list, I would
say to the vendors here interoperability is a big thing for us, as no
one product does it all to the level we require (and it's unlikely they
ever will). We are far more likely to buy things that play nicely with
what we have already, and so far, most of the tools we use do. Gold
stars all round.

Anyway, thanks again for all the information.

Cheers,
Pete

On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 8:00 AM, Gary McGraw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> badness-ometer-pedia!  most excellent descriptive phrase.  You guys should 
> change the official name!
>
> Incidentally, one of the best uses data like these can be put to is training.
>
> gem
>
> company www.cigital.com
> podcast www.cigital.com/silverbullet
> blog www.cigital.com/justiceleague
> book www.swsec.com
>
>
> On 11/17/08 4:49 PM, "Steven M. Christey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> The CWE Research view (CWE-1000) is language-neutral at its higher-level
> nodes, and decomposes in some areas into language-specific constructs.
> Early experience suggests that this view is not necessarily
> developer-friendly, however, because it's not organized around the types
> of concepts that developers typically think in.
>
> http://cwe.mitre.org/data/definitions/1000.html
>
> (click the Graph tab on the top right of the page to see the breakdown)
>
> Obviously the CWE is a badness-ometer-pedia but suggests some areas that
> your guidelines would hopefully address.
>
> - Steve
> ___
> Secure Coding mailing list (SC-L) SC-L@securecoding.org
> List information, subscriptions, etc - http://krvw.com/mailman/listinfo/sc-l
> List charter available at - http://www.securecoding.org/list/charter.php
> SC-L is hosted and moderated by KRvW Associates, LLC (http://www.KRvW.com)
> as a free, non-commercial service to the software security community.
> ___
>
>
> ___
> Secure Coding mailing list (SC-L) SC-L@securecoding.org
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> SC-L is hosted and moderated by KRvW Associates, LLC (http://www.KRvW.com)
> as a free, non-commercial service to the software security community.
> ___
>
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Re: [SC-L] Language agnostic secure coding guidelines/standards?

2008-11-19 Thread Gary McGraw
badness-ometer-pedia!  most excellent descriptive phrase.  You guys should 
change the official name!

Incidentally, one of the best uses data like these can be put to is training.

gem

company www.cigital.com
podcast www.cigital.com/silverbullet
blog www.cigital.com/justiceleague
book www.swsec.com


On 11/17/08 4:49 PM, "Steven M. Christey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



The CWE Research view (CWE-1000) is language-neutral at its higher-level
nodes, and decomposes in some areas into language-specific constructs.
Early experience suggests that this view is not necessarily
developer-friendly, however, because it's not organized around the types
of concepts that developers typically think in.

http://cwe.mitre.org/data/definitions/1000.html

(click the Graph tab on the top right of the page to see the breakdown)

Obviously the CWE is a badness-ometer-pedia but suggests some areas that
your guidelines would hopefully address.

- Steve
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Re: [SC-L] Language agnostic secure coding guidelines/standards?

2008-11-17 Thread Steven M. Christey

The CWE Research view (CWE-1000) is language-neutral at its higher-level
nodes, and decomposes in some areas into language-specific constructs.
Early experience suggests that this view is not necessarily
developer-friendly, however, because it's not organized around the types
of concepts that developers typically think in.

http://cwe.mitre.org/data/definitions/1000.html

(click the Graph tab on the top right of the page to see the breakdown)

Obviously the CWE is a badness-ometer-pedia but suggests some areas that
your guidelines would hopefully address.

- Steve
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Re: [SC-L] Language agnostic secure coding guidelines/standards?

2008-11-14 Thread David A. Wheeler
Pete Werner:
> I've been tasked with developing a secure coding standard for my
> employer. everything i've found is mostly focussed on web
> applications or language/platform specific. Does anyone know of
> something that may be what I'm looking for?

It's not exactly what you're looking for, but you can take a peek at my 
book, which is on-line:
http://www.dwheeler.com/secure-programs/

It's language agnostic, it provides guidelines for secure coding, and it 
applies to both web apps & non-web-apps.  It _does_ focus on the 
Unix/Linux platform, as it was intended to... but at this point the 
majority of it is actually platform-agnostic.

It is _NOT_ a checklist, though.  Instead of focusing on a checklist for 
humans, I would suggest using a static analysis tool to implement as 
much of a "checklist" as possible. Then any checklist you create should 
only include things that CANNOT be easily automated (e.g., "no default 
password").

However: TRAIN THE DEVELOPERS FIRST.  Use my book, another book, 
whatever, but TRAIN them.  In my experience, just handing a checklist or 
static analysis tool to developers is ineffective; a security-clueless 
developer will often not understand what the checklist/tool is saying, 
or "fix" it in a way that doesn't solve the problem.  In contrast, 
having your developers understand security will mean that even WITHOUT a 
checklist/tool, they'll produce much better software... and then 
checklists & tools can actually be helpful.  Since today's "average 
developer" has no clue about security, you MUST train them... you can't 
assume they start that way.

For a funny example where just handing someone a static analysis tool 
didn't do any good, see:
  http://www.dwheeler.com/flawfinder/#fool-with-tool
In this case, RealNetworks used a static analysis tool (flawfinder), but 
instead of fixing the vulnerabilities flawfinder found, they just 
inserted directives to tell flawfinder to stop reporting the 
vulnerabilities.  Of course, this didn't actually FIX the 
vulnerabilities...!  And my thanks to RealNetworks for coming clean 
about their mistake; I'm sure they're neither the first NOR last, and we 
can learn from them.


--- David A. Wheeler


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Re: [SC-L] Language agnostic secure coding guidelines/standards?

2008-11-14 Thread Robert Seacord
Pete,

I think your best bet is the work being done by ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 22/ WG 23 
Programming Language Vulnerabilities.  The website for this work is 
http://www.aitcnet.org/isai/.

The latest Editor's draft of PDTR 24772, prepared by John Benito, is N0138 
which can be found here:

http://www.aitcnet.org/isai/_Mtg_10/_Mtg_9/22-OWGV-N-0138/n0138.pdf

This document provides language independent guidance, with language specific 
annexes.  I think this comes closes to what you are looking for.

CERT has/is developing language specific standards for C, C++, and Java and are 
available online at www.securecoding.cert.org.  There is also a static version 
of the C standard which has been published by Addison-Wesley 
http://www.informit.com/store/product.aspx?isbn=0321563212 if you prefer your 
standards fixed instead of continually evolving.  ;^)

Our Java Secure Coding standard is being developed collaboratively with Sun 
Microsystems.  Eventually, I'll probably get an announcement out to that effect.

Thanks,
rCs

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Werner
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 7:22 PM
To: Secure Coding
Subject: [SC-L] Language agnostic secure coding guidelines/standards?

Hi all

I've been tasked with developing a secure coding standard for my employer. This 
will be a policy tool used to get developers to fix issues in their code after 
an audit, and also hopefully be of use to developers as they work to ensure 
they are compliant. The kicker is it needs to cover things ranging from cobol 
running on a mainframe, in house network monitoring software in c and perl 
through to web and desktop applications in java or .net.

I've been doing some searching to see if there is anything similar online, but 
everything i've found is mostly focussed on web applications or 
language/platform specific. Does anyone know of something that may be what I'm 
looking for?

It's basically going to be a checklist where every item will be something that 
can be audited, and the things that aren't relevant to a given application can 
be ignored. The broad sections I have so far
are:

Input/Output handling
Session Control and Management
Memory allocation and Management
Authentication Management
Authorisation Management
Data Protection
Logging and Auditing
Application Errors and Exceptions

Thanks in advance
Pete
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Re: [SC-L] Language agnostic secure coding guidelines/standards?

2008-11-13 Thread John Steven
All,

James McGovern hits the core issue with his post, though I'm not sure how many 
organizations are self-aware enough to realize it. In practice, his 
philosophical quandary plays out through a few key questions. Do I:

1) Write technology-specific best-practices or security policy?
2) Couch my standards as "do not" or "do"?
3) Cull best practices from what people do, or set a bar and drive people 
towards compliance?
4) Spend money on training, or a tool roll-out?

See:
http://risiko.cigital.com/justiceleague/2007/05/25/a-mini-architecture-for-security-guidance/
http://risiko.cigital.com/justiceleague/2007/05/21/how-to-write-good-security-guidance/
http://risiko.cigital.com/justiceleague/2007/05/18/security-guidance-and-its-%e2%80%9cspecificity-knob%e2%80%9d/

Though old, these posts still seem to help.

More recently, this argument has most frequently taken the form of "language 
specific guidance or agnostic security guidance?". this has begun to play out 
in Andrew's post quoted below. Though there's tremendous value in agnostic 
guidance (especially because it applies well to languages for which specific 
guidance or tool support doesn't yet exist, and because it withstands time's 
test slightly better). But, what OWASP has documented is a false victory for 
the proponents of agnostic guidance--citing  its language independence. It, 
like any decent guidance, IS technology-specific, just not on any particular 
language. It's closely coupled to both the current web-technology stack as well 
as a penetration-testing approach (though, frankly that is fine). Move outside 
of either and you're going to find the guidance wanting. Saying the OWASP 
guidance is better than language-specific guidance is like getting caught in 
the rabbit hole of Java's "single language compiled to a virtual !
 machine that runs anywhere" vs. .NETs "many languages compiled to a single 
format that runs one place."

High-minded thought about whether or not one should proceed from the top down 
(from a strong but impractical to apply) governance initiative or from the 
bottom-up from a base of core scanning capabilities afforded by a security tool 
has won me little progress. it's frustrating and I give up. We needed a 
breakthrough, and we've gotten it:

As a result, we've built a tool chain that allows us/our clients to rapidly 
implement automated checks whether they have a static analysis tool, rely on 
penetration testing, or desire to implement their security testing as part of a 
broader QA effort. The 'rub' is that we've stayed technology-specific (to the 
Java EE platform)--so all the appropriate limitations apply... but recently we 
were able to deploy the static analysis piece of this puzzle (which we call our 
Assessment Factory) and automate 55% of a corporation's (rather extensive) 
security standards for that stack in 12mhrs. That's ridiculous (in a good way).

So, in my mind, the key is to get specific and do it quickly. Deciding whether 
or not to get language or technology-stack specific is a red-herring argument. 
The question should be: are you going to implement your automation with dynamic 
testing tools, static analysis tools, or say, a requirements management tool 
such as Archer.

If you're going the dynamic route, focus on technology-specific guidance. 
Download the OWASP security testing guide. Conduct a gap analysis on the guide: 
what can you automate with your existing test harness? If you don't have a 
harness, download Selenium. Once the gap analysis is done: get to work 
automating iteratively.

If you're going the static route: focus on language-specific guidance. Begin 
customizing your tool to find vulnerable constructs in your architectural 
idiom, and to detect non-compliance to your corporate standards/policy.

It's really not as bad as it can seem. You just have to remember you won't 
achieve 100% coverage in the first month. Though, any seasoned QA professional 
will tell you--expecting to is ludicrous.


John Steven
Senior Director; Advanced Technology Consulting
Direct: (703) 404-5726 Cell: (703) 727-4034
Key fingerprint = 4772 F7F3 1019 4668 62AD  94B0 AE7F EEF4 62D5 F908

Blog: http://www.cigital.com/justiceleague
Papers: http://www.cigital.com/papers/jsteven

http://www.cigital.com
Software Confidence. Achieved.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew van der Stock

The OWASP materials are fairly language neutral. The closest document
to your current requirements is the Developer Guide.

I am also developing a coding standard for Owasp with a likely
deliverable date next year. I am looking for volunteers to help with
it, so if you want a document that exactly meets your needs ... Please
join us!

On Nov 12, 2008, at 19:21, "Pete Werner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I've been tasked with developing a secure coding standard for my
> employer. This will be a policy tool used to get developers to fix
> iss

Re: [SC-L] Language agnostic secure coding guidelines/standards?

2008-11-13 Thread Andrew van der Stock
The OWASP materials are fairly language neutral. The closest document  
to your current requirements is the Developer Guide.

I am also developing a coding standard for Owasp with a likely  
deliverable date next year. I am looking for volunteers to help with  
it, so if you want a document that exactly meets your needs ... Please  
join us!

Thanks,
Andrew

On Nov 12, 2008, at 19:21, "Pete Werner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I've been tasked with developing a secure coding standard for my
> employer. This will be a policy tool used to get developers to fix
> issues in their code after an audit, and also hopefully be of use to
> developers as they work to ensure they are compliant. The kicker is it
> needs to cover things ranging from cobol running on a mainframe, in
> house network monitoring software in c and perl through to web and
> desktop applications in java or .net.
>
> I've been doing some searching to see if there is anything similar
> online, but everything i've found is mostly focussed on web
> applications or language/platform specific. Does anyone know of
> something that may be what I'm looking for?
>
> It's basically going to be a checklist where every item will be
> something that can be audited, and the things that aren't relevant to
> a given application can be ignored. The broad sections I have so far
> are:
>
> Input/Output handling
> Session Control and Management
> Memory allocation and Management
> Authentication Management
> Authorisation Management
> Data Protection
> Logging and Auditing
> Application Errors and Exceptions
>
> Thanks in advance
> Pete
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> SC-L is hosted and moderated by KRvW Associates, LLC (http://www.KRvW.com 
> )
> as a free, non-commercial service to the software security community.
> ___
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Re: [SC-L] Language agnostic secure coding guidelines/standards?

2008-11-13 Thread McGovern, James F (HTSC, IT)
 Awhile back, I got asked the same question and realized that at some
level the question is flawed. Many large enterprises have standards
documents that sit on the shelf and the need to create more didn't feel
right. Instead, we feel to the posture that we should inverse the
problem and instead find a tool that automates the code review process
(aka static analysis) where we can not only measure compliance to the
standard but get the standards off the shelf.

In terms of products, check out Ounce Labs, Coverity, Klocwork, etc.
Most will have coverage for C, Java, .NET, etc. The challenge with some
of the other languages you have is that pretty much no one in the
security community has ever spent much time analyzing the weaknesses in
COBOL. There is some stuff out there, but it is light when compared to
Java...

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Werner
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 7:22 PM
To: Secure Coding
Subject: [SC-L] Language agnostic secure coding guidelines/standards?

Hi all

I've been tasked with developing a secure coding standard for my
employer. This will be a policy tool used to get developers to fix
issues in their code after an audit, and also hopefully be of use to
developers as they work to ensure they are compliant. The kicker is it
needs to cover things ranging from cobol running on a mainframe, in
house network monitoring software in c and perl through to web and
desktop applications in java or .net.

I've been doing some searching to see if there is anything similar
online, but everything i've found is mostly focussed on web applications
or language/platform specific. Does anyone know of something that may be
what I'm looking for?

It's basically going to be a checklist where every item will be
something that can be audited, and the things that aren't relevant to a
given application can be ignored. The broad sections I have so far
are:

Input/Output handling
Session Control and Management
Memory allocation and Management
Authentication Management
Authorisation Management
Data Protection
Logging and Auditing
Application Errors and Exceptions

Thanks in advance
Pete


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Re: [SC-L] Language agnostic secure coding guidelines/standards?

2008-11-13 Thread AF
Pete Werner wrote:
> Hi all
> I've been tasked with developing a secure coding standard for my
> employer. This will be a policy tool used to get developers to fix
> issues in their code after an audit, and also hopefully be of use to
> developers as they work to ensure they are compliant. The kicker is it
> needs to cover things ranging from cobol running on a mainframe, in
> house network monitoring software in c and perl through to web and
> desktop applications in java or .net.
> I've been doing some searching to see if there is anything similar
> online, but everything i've found is mostly focussed on web
> applications or language/platform specific. Does anyone know of
> something that may be what I'm looking for?
> It's basically going to be a checklist where every item will be
> something that can be audited, and the things that aren't relevant to
> a given application can be ignored. The broad sections I have so far
> are:
> Input/Output handling
> Session Control and Management
> Memory allocation and Management
> Authentication Management
> Authorisation Management
> Data Protection
> Logging and Auditing
> Application Errors and Exceptions
> Thanks in advance
> Pete
>   


Hi Pete,

You are right when it comes to being agnostic, many
checklists and guides found on the web are webapp-oriented.

The security frames, however, mostly remain the same
for software, whether it is web-based or desktop-based,
such as:

- authentication
- authorisation
- data validation
- session management
- logging
- error handling
- cryptography
- ...


The proposition is that you might consider the OWASP's
"code review" or "testing" guides checkpoints (more than
60 controls are included) and derive their "architecture-agnostic"
counterpart.

You can then add the remaining frames, less found on
webapp-security guidances, such as memory management
or multithreading, from other sources.

This strategy would (I hope) help you build a first version
of your corporate secure coding guideline in a checklist
form.

I hope it helps...

regards,
A


ps: http://www.owasp.org/, the guides links are
shown in the upper right quick access projects links
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[SC-L] Language agnostic secure coding guidelines/standards?

2008-11-13 Thread Pete Werner
Hi all

I've been tasked with developing a secure coding standard for my
employer. This will be a policy tool used to get developers to fix
issues in their code after an audit, and also hopefully be of use to
developers as they work to ensure they are compliant. The kicker is it
needs to cover things ranging from cobol running on a mainframe, in
house network monitoring software in c and perl through to web and
desktop applications in java or .net.

I've been doing some searching to see if there is anything similar
online, but everything i've found is mostly focussed on web
applications or language/platform specific. Does anyone know of
something that may be what I'm looking for?

It's basically going to be a checklist where every item will be
something that can be audited, and the things that aren't relevant to
a given application can be ignored. The broad sections I have so far
are:

Input/Output handling
Session Control and Management
Memory allocation and Management
Authentication Management
Authorisation Management
Data Protection
Logging and Auditing
Application Errors and Exceptions

Thanks in advance
Pete
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