Re: is the disk failing ?
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 8:20 PM Radha Mohan wrote:
>
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 6:09 PM Paul Robert Marino
> wrote:
> >
> > to be clear I wasn't saying Smart is useless just that smartctl doesn't
> > always tell you every thing so you shouldn't rely as a definitive answer on
> > all issues on all disks.
> >
> > As for raid controllers well that's a very long conversation there are good
> > reasons the enterprise ones do not, at least not directly in a way you can
> > extract using the smartctl command instead they have more advanced checks
> > available through the drivers and additional monitoring tools provided by
> > the manufacturer of the raid controller.
> >
> > as for the predictive nature of smart well that's actually in its
> > specification it predicts errors based on indicators.
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 7:55 PM Konstantin Olchanski
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 04:20:03PM -0400, Paul Robert Marino wrote:
> >> >
> >> > smart is predictive and doesn't catch all errors its also not compatible
> >> > with all disks and controllers especially raid capable controllers.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Do not reject SMART as useless, it correctly reports many actual disk
> >> failures:
> >>
> >> a) overheating (actual disk temperature is reported in degrees Centigrade)
> >> b) unreadable sectors (data on these sectors is already lost) - disk model
> >> dependant
> >> c) "hard to read" sectors (WD specific - "raw read error rate")
> >> d) sata link communication errors ("CRC error count")
> >>
> >> even more useful actual (*not* predictive) stuff is reported for SSDs
> >> (again, model dependant)
> >>
> >> it is true that much of this information is disk model dependant and
> >> one has to have some experience with the SMART data to be able
> >> to read it in a meaningful way.
> >>
> >> as for raid controllers that prevent access to disk SMART data,
> >> they are as safe to use a car with a blank dashboard (no fuel level,
> >> no engine temperature, no speedometer, etc).
> >>
>
> Posting " smartctl -a" output below.
> Also just wanted to mention that I have only single disk on my
> machine. So the disk has not failed. I was able to restart the machine
> lot of times and the OS came up nice.
>
> # smartctl -a /dev/sda
> smartctl 6.2 2017-02-27 r4394
> [x86_64-linux-3.10.0-862.14.4.el7.x86_64] (local build)
> Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke,
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.smartmontools.org=DwIFaQ=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=kQ8vvayrVpln1ARGxS9sNz5F4E2AypuC4yVAsVT_nO4=994EuiJp86AYjKROB14_SvOCF1tiERWKXFElbEjMDvo=
>
> === START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
> Model Family: Toshiba 3.5" MG03ACAxxx(Y) Enterprise HDD
> Device Model: TOSHIBA MG03ACA100
> Serial Number:46SIKCQFF
> LU WWN Device Id: 5 39 6fbf81f8b
> Add. Product Id: DELL(tm)
> Firmware Version: FL2H
> User Capacity:1,000,204,886,016 bytes [1.00 TB]
> Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical
> Rotation Rate:7200 rpm
> Device is:In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
> ATA Version is: ATA8-ACS (minor revision not indicated)
> SATA Version is: SATA 3.0, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 6.0 Gb/s)
> Local Time is:Tue Oct 16 20:17:41 2018 PDT
> SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
> SMART support is: Enabled
>
> === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
> SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
> Warning: This result is based on an Attribute check.
>
> General SMART Values:
> Offline data collection status: (0x85) Offline data collection activity
> was aborted by an interrupting command from host.
> Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
> Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine
> completed
> without error or no self-test has ever
> been run.
> Total time to complete Offline
> data collection: ( 90) seconds.
> Offline data collection
> capabilities: (0x5b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
> Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
> Suspend Offline collection upon new
> command.
> Offline surface scan supported.
> Self-test supported.
> No Conveyance Self-test supported.
> Selective Self-test supported.
> SMART capabilities:(0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
> power-saving mode.
> Supports SMART auto save timer.
> Error logging capability:(0x01) Error logging supported.
> General Purpose Logging supported.
> Short self-test routine
> recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes.
> Extended self-test routine
> recommended polling time: ( 164) minutes.
> SCT capabilities:(0x003d) SCT Status supported.
> SCT Error Recovery Control supported.
> SCT Feature Control supported.
> SCT Data Table supported.
>
> SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
> Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE
> UPDATED
Re: is the disk failing ?
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 6:09 PM Paul Robert Marino wrote:
>
> to be clear I wasn't saying Smart is useless just that smartctl doesn't
> always tell you every thing so you shouldn't rely as a definitive answer on
> all issues on all disks.
>
> As for raid controllers well that's a very long conversation there are good
> reasons the enterprise ones do not, at least not directly in a way you can
> extract using the smartctl command instead they have more advanced checks
> available through the drivers and additional monitoring tools provided by the
> manufacturer of the raid controller.
>
> as for the predictive nature of smart well that's actually in its
> specification it predicts errors based on indicators.
>
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 7:55 PM Konstantin Olchanski
> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 04:20:03PM -0400, Paul Robert Marino wrote:
>> >
>> > smart is predictive and doesn't catch all errors its also not compatible
>> > with all disks and controllers especially raid capable controllers.
>> >
>>
>>
>> Do not reject SMART as useless, it correctly reports many actual disk
>> failures:
>>
>> a) overheating (actual disk temperature is reported in degrees Centigrade)
>> b) unreadable sectors (data on these sectors is already lost) - disk model
>> dependant
>> c) "hard to read" sectors (WD specific - "raw read error rate")
>> d) sata link communication errors ("CRC error count")
>>
>> even more useful actual (*not* predictive) stuff is reported for SSDs
>> (again, model dependant)
>>
>> it is true that much of this information is disk model dependant and
>> one has to have some experience with the SMART data to be able
>> to read it in a meaningful way.
>>
>> as for raid controllers that prevent access to disk SMART data,
>> they are as safe to use a car with a blank dashboard (no fuel level,
>> no engine temperature, no speedometer, etc).
>>
Posting " smartctl -a" output below.
Also just wanted to mention that I have only single disk on my
machine. So the disk has not failed. I was able to restart the machine
lot of times and the OS came up nice.
# smartctl -a /dev/sda
smartctl 6.2 2017-02-27 r4394
[x86_64-linux-3.10.0-862.14.4.el7.x86_64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke,
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.smartmontools.org=DwIFaQ=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=HVdbO_Zor-zyG5wjg1a513ELmsH-s6kV9BOATEv8HT4=0RkyV6zeuis8j3X9vh4DjMK3wxnckgIh-soHjAWzJGo=
=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Toshiba 3.5" MG03ACAxxx(Y) Enterprise HDD
Device Model: TOSHIBA MG03ACA100
Serial Number:46SIKCQFF
LU WWN Device Id: 5 39 6fbf81f8b
Add. Product Id: DELL(tm)
Firmware Version: FL2H
User Capacity:1,000,204,886,016 bytes [1.00 TB]
Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical
Rotation Rate:7200 rpm
Device is:In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is: ATA8-ACS (minor revision not indicated)
SATA Version is: SATA 3.0, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 6.0 Gb/s)
Local Time is:Tue Oct 16 20:17:41 2018 PDT
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled
=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
Warning: This result is based on an Attribute check.
General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status: (0x85) Offline data collection activity
was aborted by an interrupting command from host.
Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine completed
without error or no self-test has ever
been run.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection: ( 90) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities: (0x5b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
Suspend Offline collection upon new
command.
Offline surface scan supported.
Self-test supported.
No Conveyance Self-test supported.
Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities:(0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
power-saving mode.
Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability:(0x01) Error logging supported.
General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 164) minutes.
SCT capabilities:(0x003d) SCT Status supported.
SCT Error Recovery Control supported.
SCT Feature Control supported.
SCT Data Table supported.
SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE
UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000b 100 100 050Pre-fail
Always - 0
2 Throughput_Performance 0x0004 100 100 000Old_age
Offline - 0
3 Spin_Up_Time0x0027 100 100 001Pre-fail
Always -
Re: After Install last physical disk is not mounted on reboot
On 10/15/18 6:39 AM, Larry Linder wrote: When you look at the /dev/disk and the directories there is no occurance of "sde" We tried to modify "fstab" manuall but the device code - decoding scheme didn't work. System booted to "rescue". There are a number of problems with the GigaBit MB and one has to do with the serial communication. I looked into the bios and all 4 WD disks are present. Disk 5 as "sde" is not seen there. We tried moving disks around and the same result so its not a disk problem. These are all WD disks However we have noticed that when you count up the devices to be mounted in "fstab" there are 16. A number of the mounts are due to the user and SL OS. On this server we will stick with xt4 for the time being. We have investigated a Port Expansion board to allow us to use more physical disks but when you peek under the covers and look how they work the performance penality is not worth the trouble. Larry Linder On Sat, 2018-10-13 at 09:55 -0700, Bruce Ferrell wrote: My one and only question is, do you see the device for sde, in any form (/dev/sdeX, /dev/disk/by-*, etc) present in /etc/fstab with the proper mount point(s)? It really doesn't matter WHAT the device tech is. /etc/fstab just tells the OS where to put the device into the filesystem... Or it did before systemd got into the mix. Just for grins and giggles, I'd put sde (and it's correct partition/mount point) into fstab and reboot during a maintenance window. if that fails, I'd be taking a hard look at systemd and the units that took over disk mounting. Systemd is why I'm still running SL 6.x Also, if you hot swapped the drive, the kernel has a nasty habit of assigning a new device name. What WAS sde becomes sdf until the next reboot... But fstab and systemd just don't get that. Look for anomalies. disk devices that you don't recognize in fstab or the systemd configs. On 10/13/18 7:20 AM, Larry Linder wrote: The problem is not associated with the file system. We have a newer system with SL 7.5 and xfs and we have the same problem. I omited a lot of directories because of time and importance. fstab is what is mounted and used by OS. The fstab was copied exactly as SL 7.5 built it. It does not give you a clue as to what the directories are and it shouldn't. The point is that I would like to use more pysical drives on this system but because of MB or OS the last physical disk is not seen, which is "sde". One of older SCSI sysems had 31 disks attached to it. The Bios does sees 1 SSD, 4 WesternDigital drives and 1 dvd. SSD sda WD sdb WD sdc WD sdd WD sde is missing from "fstab" and not mounted. plextor dvd We tried a nanual mount and it works but when you reboot it is gone becasuse it not in "fstab". Why so many disks: Two of these disks are used for back up of users on the server. Twice a day @ 12:30 and at 0:30 each day. These are also in sync with two disks that are at another physical location. Using "rsync" you have to be carefull or it can be an eternal garbage colledtor. This is off topic. A disk has a finite life so every 6 mo. We rotate in a new disk and toss the oldest one. It takes two and 1/2 years to cycle threw the pack. This scheme has worked for us for the last 20 years. We have never had a server die on us. We have used Sl Linux form version 4 to current and before that RH 7->9 and BSD 4.3. We really do not have a performance problem even on long 3d renderings- The slowest thing in the room is the speed one can type or point. Models, simulations, drawings are done before you can reach for your cup. Thank You Larry Linder On Fri, 2018-10-12 at 23:07 -0700, Bruce Ferrell wrote: On 10/12/18 8:09 PM, ~Stack~ wrote: On 10/12/2018 07:35 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: [snip] On SL 7? Why? Is there any reason not to use xfs? I've appreciated the ext filesystems, I've known its original author for decades. (He was my little brother in my fraternity!) But there's not a compelling reason to use it in recent SL releases. Sure there is. Anyone who has to mange fluctuating disks in an LVM knows precisely why you avoid XFS - Shrink an XFS formated LVM partition. Oh, wait. You can't. ;-) My server with EXT4 will be back on line with adjusted filesystem sizes before the XFS partition has even finished backing up! It is a trivial, well-documented, and quick process to adjust an ext4 file-system. Granted, I'm in a world where people can't seem to judge how they are going to use the space on their server and frequently have to come to me needing help because they did something silly like allocate 50G to /opt and 1G to /var. *rolls eyes* (sadly that was a true event.) Adjusting filesystems for others happens far too frequently for me. At least it is easy for the EXT4 crowd. Also, I can't think of a single compelling reason to use XFS over EXT4. Supposedly XFS is great for large files of 30+ Gb, but I can promise you that most of the servers and desktops I support have easily 95% of
Re: is the disk failing ?
to be clear I wasn't saying Smart is useless just that smartctl doesn't
always tell you every thing so you shouldn't rely as a definitive answer on
all issues on all disks.
As for raid controllers well that's a very long conversation there are good
reasons the enterprise ones do not, at least not directly in a way you can
extract using the smartctl command instead they have more advanced checks
available through the drivers and additional monitoring tools provided by
the manufacturer of the raid controller.
as for the predictive nature of smart well that's actually in its
specification it predicts errors based on indicators.
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 7:55 PM Konstantin Olchanski
wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 04:20:03PM -0400, Paul Robert Marino wrote:
> >
> > smart is predictive and doesn't catch all errors its also not compatible
> > with all disks and controllers especially raid capable controllers.
> >
>
>
> Do not reject SMART as useless, it correctly reports many actual disk
> failures:
>
> a) overheating (actual disk temperature is reported in degrees Centigrade)
> b) unreadable sectors (data on these sectors is already lost) - disk model
> dependant
> c) "hard to read" sectors (WD specific - "raw read error rate")
> d) sata link communication errors ("CRC error count")
>
> even more useful actual (*not* predictive) stuff is reported for SSDs
> (again, model dependant)
>
> it is true that much of this information is disk model dependant and
> one has to have some experience with the SMART data to be able
> to read it in a meaningful way.
>
> as for raid controllers that prevent access to disk SMART data,
> they are as safe to use a car with a blank dashboard (no fuel level,
> no engine temperature, no speedometer, etc).
>
>
> --
> Konstantin Olchanski
> Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow!
> Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca
> Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada
>
Re: is the disk failing ?
Konstantin Olchanski wrote on 10/16/18 6:55 PM: [snip...] as for raid controllers that prevent access to disk SMART data, they are as safe to use a car with a blank dashboard (no fuel level, no engine temperature, no speedometer, etc). Oy! Had some of those, but I "Promise" not to mention any vendor names. ;-} -- P. Larry Nelson (217-693-7418) | IT Administrator Emeritus 810 Ventura Rd.| High Energy Physics Group Champaign, IL 61820 | Physics Dept., Univ. of Ill. MailTo: lnel...@illinois.edu | https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__hep.physics.illinois.edu_home_lnelson_=DwICaQ=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=IC6JnGOHzXnPNBJL3lAfI3rME-jUIv6qSI66HHKjsU8=7DfVCFoLT9KElMJ4vdLL-T-36GKMIawDz1Z_iibWNJs= -- "Information without accountability is just noise." - P.L. Nelson
Re: is the disk failing ?
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 04:20:03PM -0400, Paul Robert Marino wrote:
>
> smart is predictive and doesn't catch all errors its also not compatible
> with all disks and controllers especially raid capable controllers.
>
Do not reject SMART as useless, it correctly reports many actual disk failures:
a) overheating (actual disk temperature is reported in degrees Centigrade)
b) unreadable sectors (data on these sectors is already lost) - disk model
dependant
c) "hard to read" sectors (WD specific - "raw read error rate")
d) sata link communication errors ("CRC error count")
even more useful actual (*not* predictive) stuff is reported for SSDs (again,
model dependant)
it is true that much of this information is disk model dependant and
one has to have some experience with the SMART data to be able
to read it in a meaningful way.
as for raid controllers that prevent access to disk SMART data,
they are as safe to use a car with a blank dashboard (no fuel level,
no engine temperature, no speedometer, etc).
--
Konstantin Olchanski
Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow!
Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca
Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada
Re: is the disk failing ?
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 12:24:38PM -0500, Subscribe Scientific-Linux-Users Rm wrote: > > Oct 16 10:22:25 rc-dellt430 udisksd[14184]: Error performing housekeeping for > drive /org/freedesktop/UDisks2/drives/TOSHIBA_MG03ACA100_46SIKCQFF: Error > updating SMART data: sk_disk_check_sleep_mode: Input/output error > (udisks-error-quark, 0) > If disk reports "Input/output error", then the disk has failed (already failed, not "is failing"). > > The "smartctl -A /dev/sda" isn't saying any errors with the disk. > The output of smartctl is sometimes dificuly to interpret without some experience, definitely WD and Seagate report some failure modes differently. Best if you post the output of "smartctl -a" to this list, somebody (myself included) can read it for you to tell what the exact failure problem is. But the bottom line is your disk has failed, you should replace it immediately. (good disks do not throw "i/o errors"). -- Konstantin Olchanski Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow! Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada
