Re: centOS 8 ... Gnome 3, Mate

2019-10-09 Thread David Sommerseth 
[resent with correct mail identity]

On 09/10/2019 02:19, Keith Lofstrom wrote:
>> Centos 8 problems.
>> 1. We noticed that the mouse wheel has changed direction ...
> 
> Some of the issues described are Gnome3 "features", not
> just CentOS.  I switched to Mate, a fork which resembles
> Gnome2.  I hope the Mate team outlives me.  Send money
> to them.
> 
> I don't use tablets, "smart phones" (aka "dodo-paddles"),
> gestures (besides the venerable middle digit), and other
> cat-video-interface indoctrination and surveillance tools.

This is FUD ... And to be honest I did believe this too in the early GNOME
3/GNOME Shell days.  But nowadays GNOME 3 is by far more keyboard friendly
than GNOME 2 was.  Nowadays, I mostly use the mouse to mark text and keep the
right window focused (I use focus-follows-mouse).

So ...

- alt-tab with cursor keys to quickly flip windows without mouse.

- To open, say Firefox - hit the Windows-key, type "firef [ENTER]" - if there
are multiple matches, use cursor keys.  And search results are adaptive, so if
you search for the same thing more often, it appears higher up in the result
list.

- To move windows, hit ALT-F7 and move the window with cursor keys (or go via
the ALT+Space menu)

- To resize windows, hit ALT-F8 and resize the window with cursor keys (or go
via ALT+Space menu)

- Maximize window: Windows key + cursor key UP

- Normalize window: Windows key + cursor key DOWN

- Maximize only cover half left or right side of the screen: Windows key +
cursor key LEFT/RIGHT (undo by doing it once more, or Windows key + Cursor DOWN)

- Restart GNOME Shell: ALT+F2 and type "r [enter]"

- Move window to another workspace: Focus the window you want to move and hit
CTRL-ALT-SHIFT + cursor UP/DOWN

- Switch workspace: CTRL-ALT + cursor UP/DOWN

- Hit ctrl-alt-tab, and cursor keys now highlights things available on the
"top bar" on the screen, allowing you to access those elements using cursor
keys and the enter key.

...
...
and the list goes on.

Oh, hit the Windows key and search for "keyboard" and go down with cursor keys
to "Settings -> Keyboard", and you see all the shortcuts there and can change
or add more if you want.  Looking for something particular in that Keyboard
settings window, just start typing what you're searching for.

If you've also configured GNOME to also index documents and contacts, they all
appear when you start searching (via the Windows-key).


I don't mind people bashing and complaining about bad software.  But only when
the facts are right.

-- 
kind regards,

David Sommerseth

Re: centOS 8 ... Gnome 3, Mate

2019-10-09 Thread Teh, Kenneth M. 
I agree with David. I've been using Gnome 3 since Fedora 26 and it's really 
quite nice. I especially like the ability to launch an app from the keyboard 
without an open terminal. The Windows or Super key is really very handy. I'm 
also very fond of the Mac-style scroll. I just wish I could get my windows box 
to do the same.

One thing that annoys me is the hot top left corner but I have that disabled. 
For a while I missed the icons on the desktop but I don't anymore.




On 10/9/19 6:31 AM, David Sommerseth wrote:
> [resent with correct mail identity]
> 
> On 09/10/2019 02:19, Keith Lofstrom wrote:
>>> Centos 8 problems.
>>> 1. We noticed that the mouse wheel has changed direction ...
>>
>> Some of the issues described are Gnome3 "features", not
>> just CentOS.  I switched to Mate, a fork which resembles
>> Gnome2.  I hope the Mate team outlives me.  Send money
>> to them.
>>
>> I don't use tablets, "smart phones" (aka "dodo-paddles"),
>> gestures (besides the venerable middle digit), and other
>> cat-video-interface indoctrination and surveillance tools.
> 
> This is FUD ... And to be honest I did believe this too in the early GNOME
> 3/GNOME Shell days.  But nowadays GNOME 3 is by far more keyboard friendly
> than GNOME 2 was.  Nowadays, I mostly use the mouse to mark text and keep the
> right window focused (I use focus-follows-mouse).
> 
> So ...
> 
> - alt-tab with cursor keys to quickly flip windows without mouse.
> 
> - To open, say Firefox - hit the Windows-key, type "firef [ENTER]" - if there
> are multiple matches, use cursor keys.  And search results are adaptive, so if
> you search for the same thing more often, it appears higher up in the result
> list.
> 
> - To move windows, hit ALT-F7 and move the window with cursor keys (or go via
> the ALT+Space menu)
> 
> - To resize windows, hit ALT-F8 and resize the window with cursor keys (or go
> via ALT+Space menu)
> 
> - Maximize window: Windows key + cursor key UP
> 
> - Normalize window: Windows key + cursor key DOWN
> 
> - Maximize only cover half left or right side of the screen: Windows key +
> cursor key LEFT/RIGHT (undo by doing it once more, or Windows key + Cursor 
> DOWN)
> 
> - Restart GNOME Shell: ALT+F2 and type "r [enter]"
> 
> - Move window to another workspace: Focus the window you want to move and hit
> CTRL-ALT-SHIFT + cursor UP/DOWN
> 
> - Switch workspace: CTRL-ALT + cursor UP/DOWN
> 
> - Hit ctrl-alt-tab, and cursor keys now highlights things available on the
> "top bar" on the screen, allowing you to access those elements using cursor
> keys and the enter key.
> 
> ...
> ...
> and the list goes on.
> 
> Oh, hit the Windows key and search for "keyboard" and go down with cursor keys
> to "Settings -> Keyboard", and you see all the shortcuts there and can change
> or add more if you want.  Looking for something particular in that Keyboard
> settings window, just start typing what you're searching for.
> 
> If you've also configured GNOME to also index documents and contacts, they all
> appear when you start searching (via the Windows-key).
> 
> 
> I don't mind people bashing and complaining about bad software.  But only when
> the facts are right.
>

Re: centOS 8 ... Gnome 3, Mate

2019-10-09 Thread Alec Habig 
Teh, Kenneth M. writes:
> I agree with David. I've been using Gnome 3 since Fedora 26 and it's
> really quite nice. I especially like the ability to launch an app from
> the keyboard without an open terminal.

I somehow only discovered recently that in KDE, typing without a window
in focus (so, typing at the desktop I guess) does the same thing: opens
up a temporary command line so you can run something without an open
terminal.  So now I do this a lot.

But, less mousing makes me happy too - there's probably a way to map an
otherwise useless key (like the windows one) to save me having to mouse
over the desktop to do this.

Never thought I'd be wanting to steal a gnome3 thing!

-- 
   Alec Habig
 University of Minnesota Duluth
 Dept. of Physics and Astronomy
ha...@neutrino.d.umn.edu
   
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__neutrino.d.umn.edu_-7Ehabig_&d=DwIBAw&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=_sBwrjb20HN_j841mPVD8P5Oz4EJJppPuHSVWKhm3Yw&s=oYrExQWap1-X3U_m-QBd44GbNtgDu7VFcQsaH-7ho0M&e=

missing download link for : SL-Live Scientific Linux 7 Live media

2019-10-09 Thread Charles Elsaesser 
Hi
In pagehttp://ftp.scientificlinux.org/linux/scientific/7.7/x86_64/iso/
there is a reference to
SL-Live::
Scientific Linux 7 Live mediabut download link seems to be missing.

Sorry for the trouble.
Charles

Re: centOS 8 ... Gnome 3, Mate

2019-10-09 Thread Keith Lofstrom 
On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 12:10:50PM +, Teh, Kenneth M. wrote:

> One thing that annoys me is the hot top left corner but I have that disabled. 

That is nice to know, I'll find out how.  I presume Mate and
Gnome3 can coexist on the same machine, perhaps with different
logins to access them, so I can make the transition as Gnome3
is adapted to my needs.


> For a while I missed the icons on the desktop but I don't anymore.

Is there a way around that with Gnome3, to keep user-generated
icons on the desktop, and few or NO system-mandatory icons?

I keep about two dozen icons and folders on my desktop,
changing them frequently with my workflow, different patterns
for differently tasked machines. 

Sadly, it is true that some people let icons accumulate and
make a mess (resembling their physical desktops), and that
slows down the machine.  I once helped a colleague move 800
overlapped icons on her desktop to folders, and mostly to
the trash.  

For me, visual organization of my work using my own icons
and classifications is vital, and saves mental effort for
more important needs.  Also important is to avoid externally
imposed change for change's sake; I'm quite capable of 
introducting more changes in my own life than I can manage.

Keith

-- 
Keith Lofstrom  kei...@keithl.com

Re: centOS 8 ... Gnome 3, Mate

2019-10-09 Thread Teh, Kenneth M. 
Re: desktop icons. App icons are in the dock so having a shortcut link on the 
desktop to an app is not really needed. Hit the Super (the Windows) key and 
type 
the name of the app you want to launch. Much faster. If the current focus is 
the 
Gnome Terminal, Ctrl-Shift-N opens a new Gnome Terminal window which is what I 
use mostly.

The desktop icons I would have liked to have are files/documents one is 
currently working with. I haven't figured out how. Putting stuff in the Desktop 
folder has no effect. So, eventually, I just ended up using the file manager 
app. The only drawback is scrolling down to find for the file.  The Downloads 
window in the file manager has a 'ls -t' ordering so I imagine it is possible 
to 
configure the other folders to have the same ordering instead of the alphabetic 
or folder-then-files ordering.  This way your current document is always at the 
top.

The CLI for Gnome is gsettings but there is a gnome tweaks tool that is a GUI 
to 
gsettings. I used it for instance to add a compose key so I can type simple 
letters with diacriticals. It's worth installing.

Here's a section of my own notes on gnome with link to some useful (maybe 
outdated) info.

> Settings list
> =
> 
> A useful on-line resource for gsettings, their keys and values, is 
> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__people.gnome.org_-7Epmkovar_system-2Dadmin-2Dguide_index.html&d=DwIGaQ&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=5GbBSPtAOuCA234pG8d5JY2ITZevk4w-pHdsVe8Kyns&s=gYM3IXWpZTse-8sAIYNQfcFL3NFlH9f0HRcuF8jkgho&e=
>  
> 
> No particular order:
> 
> * Disable automaximize when dragging a window to the top ::
> 
> gsettings set org.gnome.mutter auto-maximize false
> 
>   Hmm...didn't seem to work.  Reboot?  Or edge-tiling false?
> 
> * Turning caps lock into a compose key: 
>   
>   | tweak-tool -> typing -> position-of-compose-key
> 
> * Show date in the top panel ::
> 
> $ gsettings set org.gnome.shell.clock show-date true
> 
> * Dual monitor workspace. To make it span both monitors, say::
> 
> $ gsettings set org.gnome.mutter workspaces-only-on-primary false


Hope this helps.




On 10/9/19 2:15 PM, Keith Lofstrom wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 12:10:50PM +, Teh, Kenneth M. wrote:
> 
>> One thing that annoys me is the hot top left corner but I have that disabled.
> 
> That is nice to know, I'll find out how.  I presume Mate and
> Gnome3 can coexist on the same machine, perhaps with different
> logins to access them, so I can make the transition as Gnome3
> is adapted to my needs.
> 
> 
>> For a while I missed the icons on the desktop but I don't anymore.
> 
> Is there a way around that with Gnome3, to keep user-generated
> icons on the desktop, and few or NO system-mandatory icons?
> 
> I keep about two dozen icons and folders on my desktop,
> changing them frequently with my workflow, different patterns
> for differently tasked machines.
> 
> Sadly, it is true that some people let icons accumulate and
> make a mess (resembling their physical desktops), and that
> slows down the machine.  I once helped a colleague move 800
> overlapped icons on her desktop to folders, and mostly to
> the trash.
> 
> For me, visual organization of my work using my own icons
> and classifications is vital, and saves mental effort for
> more important needs.  Also important is to avoid externally
> imposed change for change's sake; I'm quite capable of
> introducting more changes in my own life than I can manage.
> 
> Keith
>

Re: centOS 8 ... Gnome 3, Mate

2019-10-09 Thread Keith Lofstrom 
On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 07:44:23PM +, Teh, Kenneth M. wrote:
> The desktop icons I would have liked to have are files/documents one is 
> currently working with. I haven't figured out how.

That is exactly what I use my desktop for.  Documents I
am working on, PDFs I'm reading before filing, launchers
for my own self-generated applications,  

Most importantly, presentations ready-to-launch for
conferences (using my own presentation app), so I can
start up with the focus slide and then the title slide
in seconds.  Horsing around with a mouse and a menu
sucks when I want to focus on the audience and the
material I want to present.

Keith

-- 
Keith Lofstrom  kei...@keithl.com

New Keys I have never heard of

2019-10-09 Thread Larry Linder 
What is   super + tab ?

Did someone redefine the kayboard  ?

A lot of our keyboards do not have the microsoft window key !!!

So we just toss a bunch of good keyboards to use centos 8

Larry Linder

Re: New Keys I have never heard of

2019-10-09 Thread Jeffrey Anderson 
Historically, "Super" first appeared on a keyboard in 1980.

Today, in the context of linux, Super is usually an alternate name for the
Windows key.

You should be able to define alternate key combinations if you don't have a
physical windows key.  I know that in KDE, the "run program" dialog can be
produced by "Alt-F2"  I'm not sure about Gnome3, but you should be able to
figure it out.

Most of these things have nothing specifically to do with Centos, but with
the desktop environment.  I assume that KDE for Centos8 will be in EPEL
eventually.  There will probably be many other desktop environments
available too.  They exist for Fedora, so it is a matter of time before
someone builds on Centos8.



On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 1:19 PM Larry Linder 
wrote:

> What is   super + tab ?
>
> Did someone redefine the kayboard  ?
>
> A lot of our keyboards do not have the microsoft window key !!!
>
> So we just toss a bunch of good keyboards to use centos 8
>
> Larry Linder
>


-- 
--
Jeffrey Anderson| jdander...@lbl.gov
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory   |
Office: 50B-3216   | Mailstop 50B3238
Phone: 510 486-4208| Fax: 510 486-6498

Re: New Keys I have never heard of

2019-10-09 Thread John Pilkington 

On 09/10/2019 21:48, Jeffrey Anderson wrote:

Historically, "Super" first appeared on a keyboard in 1980.

Today, in the context of linux, Super is usually an alternate name for 
the Windows key.


You should be able to define alternate key combinations if you don't 
have a physical windows key.  I know that in KDE, the "run program" 
dialog can be produced by "Alt-F2"  I'm not sure about Gnome3, but you 
should be able to figure it out.


Most of these things have nothing specifically to do with Centos, but 
with the desktop environment.  I assume that KDE for Centos8 will be in 
EPEL eventually.  There will probably be many other desktop environments 
available too.  They exist for Fedora, so it is a matter of time before 
someone builds on Centos8.


I have seen a couple of references to kde in this thread.  I haven't 
tried CentOS 8, and I have the impression that kde for it is still a 
work in progress, but this looks to be an account of its current state:


"KDE now available on EPEL 8 ... playground"

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.fedoraproject.org_archives_list_kde-40lists.fedoraproject.org_thread_775XHF5G3B2CZI7D3GNYZHDNMURJNSOX_&d=DwIDaQ&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=hG58GrSnAY7w4fqNLFmPgtFq1f8pYdFhiCHxCDUkBqA&s=pzOtA5oTm-zPFSciHLt8gkGxWoWqyxyVK4_7518Bvaw&e= 


HTH

John P





On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 1:19 PM Larry Linder 
> wrote:


What is   super + tab     ?

Did someone redefine the kayboard  ?

A lot of our keyboards do not have the microsoft window key !!!

So we just toss a bunch of good keyboards to use centos 8

Larry Linder



--
--
Jeffrey Anderson                        | jdander...@lbl.gov 


Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory   |
Office: 50B-3216                       | Mailstop 50B3238
Phone: 510 486-4208                | Fax: 510 486-6498

Re: centOS 8 ... Gnome 3, Mate

2019-10-09 Thread Bill Maidment 

On 10/10/2019 5:15 am, Keith Lofstrom wrote:

On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 12:10:50PM +, Teh, Kenneth M. wrote:

One thing that annoys me is the hot top left corner but I have that 
disabled.


That is nice to know, I'll find out how.  I presume Mate and
Gnome3 can coexist on the same machine, perhaps with different
logins to access them, so I can make the transition as Gnome3
is adapted to my needs.



For a while I missed the icons on the desktop but I don't anymore.


Is there a way around that with Gnome3, to keep user-generated
icons on the desktop, and few or NO system-mandatory icons?

I keep about two dozen icons and folders on my desktop,
changing them frequently with my workflow, different patterns
for differently tasked machines.

Sadly, it is true that some people let icons accumulate and
make a mess (resembling their physical desktops), and that
slows down the machine.  I once helped a colleague move 800
overlapped icons on her desktop to folders, and mostly to
the trash.

For me, visual organization of my work using my own icons
and classifications is vital, and saves mental effort for
more important needs.  Also important is to avoid externally
imposed change for change's sake; I'm quite capable of
introducting more changes in my own life than I can manage.

Keith

What about using gnome  3clasic
--
Cheers
Bill