Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Code bias video, watch it ASAP
The Hatch Act makes it illegal for federal workers to discuss politics. This is a government list. From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov on behalf of Yasha Karant Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 1:18 PM To: Mailing list for Scientific Linux users worldwide Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Code bias video, watch it ASAP For those of us one this list who are ACM members, I quote: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Furldefense.proofpoint.com-252Fv2-252Furl-253Fu-253Dhttps-2D3A-5F-5Fwww.acm.org-5Fcode-2D2Dof-2D2Dethics-2526d-253DDwID-2Dg-2526c-253DgRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA-2526r-253Dgd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-2DP-2DpgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A-2526m-253DrvvKgjCdyxB3pmR8XX9sSUyDJj91jQ8He2RzBGLFsWE-2526s-253DwFYH-5FRV7rQLOGae55WLKa5Ve3lYcqfdera6gdLL3ajU-2526e-253D-26amp-3Bdata-3D04-257C01-257Csteven.z.queen-2540nasa.gov-257Ca17ab3bd8e1741159c6f08d909a08464-257C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b-257C0-257C0-257C637551407289493580-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C1000-26amp-3Bsdata-3DNmsOqa-252FLPqEGv893Voz5APCahCSgC0q-252FTIJZc1Mrrss-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0=DwIFAw=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=9vN5yrwyJ43ZZVrBXc3heOGC341KYj6SU6iWv8c9l7w=B9eHffkdKCWVfMUYH6B6rLLGCPehok6sjus7c5um2ic= A computing professional should... 1.1 Contribute to society and to human well-being, acknowledging that all people are stakeholders in computing. Similar statements exist in the ethics codes of other computing/informatics professional societies. Despite that fact that others have indicated that this, or other societal issues, are inappropriate for this list, and have threatened to unsubscribe, some discussion of this matter is appropriate and correct within the ACM code (and most other codes). This list does not conform to the codes from the former Third Reich, former USSR, present PRC, etc., for which any discussion of societal failings of the in-power control group persons is prohibited and often punishable by the government controlled by the relevant in-power group. On 4/27/21 9:49 AM, Queen, Steven Z. (GSFC-5910) wrote: > I don't think this list is an appropriate place for political > discussions. Hopefully an administrator will intervene. > If this continues, I will unsubscribe. > > > *From:* owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov > on behalf of Nico > Kadel-Garcia > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 27, 2021 9:04 AM > *To:* LaToya Anderson > *Cc:* Andrew C Aitchison ; Keith Lofstrom > ; Mailing list for Scientific Linux users worldwide > > *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Code bias video, watch it ASAP > On Sun, Apr 18, 2021 at 7:24 AM LaToya Anderson > wrote: >> >> Data does not remove bias. And one can and should both read the article and >> watch the movie. >> >> STEM Academy Instructor > > Data rather than mere exposition helps prevent bias. How do you refute > or counter unfair bias except with data? > > The movie is, itself, profoundly biased. It didn't explore at all why > a public housing project might benefit from cameras on the door of a > densely populated building with numerous poor, old, or unhealthy > tenants. The movie was an icon of "Critical Theory", portraying the > attempt to use science and engineering for social problems as a plot > against the oppressed. > > I've lived in scary neighborhoods of London. London accepts and > expects a degree of CCTV monitoring that is outrageous to Americans. > Sadly, citizens can't *get* the videos when a crime occurs, and > photographic evidence can be misused against the innocent. Been there, > done that, watched a London parking cop frame the photos they took to > document a parking ticket, really ticked him off when I very obviously > took photos at angles that showed the car was, in fact parked near a > sign that gave permission and curb markings that matched.
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Code bias video, watch it ASAP
I don't think this list is an appropriate place for political discussions. Hopefully an administrator will intervene. If this continues, I will unsubscribe. From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov on behalf of Nico Kadel-Garcia Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 9:04 AM To: LaToya Anderson Cc: Andrew C Aitchison ; Keith Lofstrom ; Mailing list for Scientific Linux users worldwide Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Code bias video, watch it ASAP On Sun, Apr 18, 2021 at 7:24 AM LaToya Anderson wrote: > > Data does not remove bias. And one can and should both read the article and > watch the movie. > > STEM Academy Instructor Data rather than mere exposition helps prevent bias. How do you refute or counter unfair bias except with data? The movie is, itself, profoundly biased. It didn't explore at all why a public housing project might benefit from cameras on the door of a densely populated building with numerous poor, old, or unhealthy tenants. The movie was an icon of "Critical Theory", portraying the attempt to use science and engineering for social problems as a plot against the oppressed. I've lived in scary neighborhoods of London. London accepts and expects a degree of CCTV monitoring that is outrageous to Americans. Sadly, citizens can't *get* the videos when a crime occurs, and photographic evidence can be misused against the innocent. Been there, done that, watched a London parking cop frame the photos they took to document a parking ticket, really ticked him off when I very obviously took photos at angles that showed the car was, in fact parked near a sign that gave permission and curb markings that matched.
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Code bias video, watch it ASAP
I don't think this list is an appropriate place for political discussions. Hopefully an administrator will intervene. If this continues, I will unsubscribe. From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov on behalf of Nico Kadel-Garcia Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 9:04 AM To: LaToya Anderson Cc: Andrew C Aitchison ; Keith Lofstrom ; Mailing list for Scientific Linux users worldwide Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Code bias video, watch it ASAP On Sun, Apr 18, 2021 at 7:24 AM LaToya Anderson wrote: > > Data does not remove bias. And one can and should both read the article and > watch the movie. > > STEM Academy Instructor Data rather than mere exposition helps prevent bias. How do you refute or counter unfair bias except with data? The movie is, itself, profoundly biased. It didn't explore at all why a public housing project might benefit from cameras on the door of a densely populated building with numerous poor, old, or unhealthy tenants. The movie was an icon of "Critical Theory", portraying the attempt to use science and engineering for social problems as a plot against the oppressed. I've lived in scary neighborhoods of London. London accepts and expects a degree of CCTV monitoring that is outrageous to Americans. Sadly, citizens can't *get* the videos when a crime occurs, and photographic evidence can be misused against the innocent. Been there, done that, watched a London parking cop frame the photos they took to document a parking ticket, really ticked him off when I very obviously took photos at angles that showed the car was, in fact parked near a sign that gave permission and curb markings that matched.
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: arstechnica: "CentOS is gone-but RHEL is now free for up to 16 production servers"
Is that buckshot intended for me? From: Konstantin Olchanski Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 5:11 PM To: Queen, Steven Z. (GSFC-5910) Cc: Mailing list for Scientific Linux users worldwide Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: arstechnica: "CentOS is gone-but RHEL is now free for up to 16 production servers" On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 07:04:14PM +0000, Queen, Steven Z. (GSFC-5910) wrote: > > Appropriately, it was IBM that invented FUD as a sales-technique in the first > place. > Alarming that IBM FUD is working against IBM. Decline of the mighty. Boeing airplanes only fly down, NASA rockets cannot go to the Moon, etc. -- Konstantin Olchanski Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow! Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: arstechnica: "CentOS is gone-but RHEL is now free for up to 16 production servers"
Appropriately, it was IBM that invented FUD as a sales-technique in the first place. From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov on behalf of Konstantin Olchanski Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 1:39 PM To: Konstantin Olchanski Cc: Mailing list for Scientific Linux users worldwide Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: arstechnica: "CentOS is gone-but RHEL is now free for up to 16 production servers" > From the Arstechnica URL: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Furldefense.proofpoint.com-252Fv2-252Furl-253Fu-253Dhttps-2D3A-5F-5Farstechnica.com-5Fgadgets-5F2021-5F01-5Fcentos-2D2Dis-2D2Dgone-2D2Dbut-2D2Drhel-2D2Dis-2D2Dnow-2D2Dfree-2D2Dfor-2D2Dup-2D2Dto-2D2D16-2D2Dproduction-2D2Dservers-5F-2526d-253DDwIDaQ-2526c-253DgRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA-2526r-253Dgd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-2DP-2DpgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A-2526m-253D5UNRADR6PpQVqP97Jl4VT9V4oTZCHRSZp5Php98SpHI-2526s-253DHmS-2DgVxXfw2RalHvyfiHtb9c1M1J1HQ20J613PRjRDE-2526e-253D-26amp-3Bdata-3D04-257C01-257Csteven.z.queen-2540nasa.gov-257C9ec8d33691f84930abe208d8be3c854f-257C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b-257C0-257C0-257C637468514464061623-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C3000-26amp-3Bsdata-3DeUr0m2bodhE8ZZtQGn5jxmPJAe2iC-252F7PfEZYSB6lG8Y-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0=DwIFAw=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=LF3Zd4-GBvyEuqYcCI7JNYFrWVXf1yt6W6ISYQxRz-0=2R4Esv0FTU4bh8O-gE_8M3M5MoiJkOLOB-2TnSOqVe0= > Me, waiting for the dust to settle, still too much BS and FUD flying around right now: - articles titled "rhel is now free" with small print "... starting in february..." - cost of managing licences counted under "free" - artificial limits of 16 systems (what if I need 17 for a couple of days?) - red hat reported as officially stating "[this] ... isn't a fly-by-night ... program" (echoes of Mr.Nixon famously saying "I am not a crook") - false dichotomies of individual vs team users, development vs production systems - "free this year", next year, a maybe. I think I will convert my one Centos-8 machine to the "starting in february" free rhel license, just to experience the "new and improved". P.S. And what about CentOS/RHEL on ARM? Today, we run CentOS-7 on ARM just fine, but going forward? Does somebody expect us to run ARM with Raspbian/Debian/Ubuntu, but stick with RHEL on x86? Really? In our detector lab, ARM machines just about outnumber x86 machines. The direction that is going, maybe red hat got it right and the "16 systems" limit will be a non-issue. -- Konstantin Olchanski Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow! Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mate for CentOS 8
Larry, You are not alone in your fears and concerns. I hope that scientific computing does not get lost in the years ahead. Nothing I have heard about CentOS 8 has been comforting. Steve From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov on behalf of Larry Linder <0dea520dd180-dmarc-requ...@listserv.fnal.gov> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 3:45 PM To: scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mate for CentOS 8 That is precisely why we gave Cent 8 a pass. Nosencical desk top and it inability to run a number of Engineering application. I ran Libre office fine but nothing else. So unless you are a word smith it basically useless. We are going to upgrade servers to 6.9 and a workstations to 7.6 and hold our breath for the next 4 years. So far we have evaluated a lot of Linux varients and most were pretty bad. Nice to tinker with but basically not industrial. They show that the developers have never worked in industry or had to bild and maintain a large number of assemblies. Our current leap back is to BSD !!! And that falls into the category of desperated measures by deperet men. Every time I look around a couple of Windows laptops we leave on line are constantly being upgraded and the upgrade fails and THEN ??? Given the mixed state of Linux and DUMB desktops and infinite mouse clicks to do simple stuff. Industrial development will continue to be Windows only. The Linux community is constantly shooting themselves in the foot and sometimes higher. Red hat was a good stable platform prior to 7 and then the kids took over and you have a video game. Not good. Where do we go from here? So the world will migrate to a Chinese tablet or telephone and computers for industrial and engineering will disappear. If you look at the slippery slope we will slip back into the dark ages of DOS and Assembly. There will not be enough of market for engineering and scientific computers to make the high volume low cost possible. So much for negative stuff. A university group or government lab in the US should offer a New SL and maintain it. The gate keeper should keep it in US English. And please no more cheese Icons. Larry Linder On Tue, 2020-05-19 at 16:44 -0700, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > I still haven't learned how to tweak Gnome 3 so it looks > and operates like Gnome 2. > > I dislike video games, which most user desktops seem to > be evolving towards. I dislike icons replacing text; > I learned to read decades ago, and I can't grep icons. > > I use Mate (a gnome 2 clone with gnome 3 underneath) > for my large-screen SL7 systems; works OK. > > I've done my feeble best to compile Mate for CentOS 8; my > result is not completely broken, but not ready for use. > Some of the graphics fails. "Mate8" seems to leak memory. > > Mate character rendering (SL7 and C8) is fuzzy, just like > all gnome3 character rendering. No big deal on a 4K*X > pixel screen, quite a problem on a portable 1K*X pixel > screen. Xterm renders fine, as sharp as gnome2, but > xterm isn't as versatile as gnome2- and mate-terminal. > > Are there other Gnome2/Mate dinosaurs on this list? > > Perhaps we can combine efforts so the gaping holes in our > understanding don't completely overlap. If nothing else, > perhaps we can develop a list of setup steps to disinfect > gnome3 and make it smell less gamy. > > Then we can go back to our research, and stop distracting > others from their tweets, popup ads, and cute cat videos. > > Keith >
