Re: Springdale Linux
On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 3:46 PM Konstantin Olchanski
wrote:
> To followup on myself. Need a definition of "unsafe". Must make
> a distinction between "centos is unsafe" vs "redhat is unsafe" vs
> "linux is unsafe" vs "any use of computer is unsafe".
>
> ("safe as certified by recognized authority" need not apply,
> cars and airplanes are certified for safety, but still crash).
>
In the US FDA they use the phrasing "generally recognized as safe" for
things that aren't officially vetted.
Re: Springdale Linux
On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 01:27:31PM -0800, Yasha Karant wrote:
> >>
> >>>and ... CentOS RPMs are not 100% safe ...
> >
> >This is a very unexpected statement. I feel it should not be passed
> >unquestioned.
> >
To followup on myself. Need a definition of "unsafe". Must make
a distinction between "centos is unsafe" vs "redhat is unsafe" vs
"linux is unsafe" vs "any use of computer is unsafe".
("safe as certified by recognized authority" need not apply,
cars and airplanes are certified for safety, but still crash).
--
Konstantin Olchanski
Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow!
Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca
Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada
Re: Springdale Linux
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__springdale.math.ias.edu_wiki_disclaimer=DwIDaQ=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=TKmDwHk4LwNB8HNm9GxxajVITvc216grjypu8En4mdU=uUu-gODJfybAXFqRmgXY4raUbPDlRs1FwEOl4N70nRg= "This software is provided with no warranty and no guarantee. We use the readily available source code provided by Red Hat to build the distribution. Any problems/vulnerabilities that are found in Red Hat are going to be present in our versions unless we specifically patched our versions. Whenever possible we follow the release and support schedules from Red Hat, when source rpms are available, we will begin building and testing them. We believe that the testing done by Red Hat will be much greater than our own and in most cases we rely on their testing." On 12/14/20 10:27 PM, Yasha Karant wrote: As I recall, what you state below is similar in sentiment to response/s when I noted the "same" comment concerning Princeton EL in the past. I take it from your response no one in the larger EL community (including HPC/HTC) shares the Princeton "sentiment" and that there is no "basis in data/fact" for it? At that time, we decided to deploy SL; CentOS Stream however totally is unsatisfactory for our needs. On 12/14/20 1:10 PM, Konstantin Olchanski wrote: and ... CentOS RPMs are not 100% safe ... This is a very unexpected statement. I feel it should not be passed unquestioned. Is there any meat there or it's just a general statement on the security of the CentOS build process vs the security of the Red Hat build process vs the security of the Princeton build process? (including signatures of source code, signatures of binary packages, security of the mirror network, etc).
Re: Springdale Linux
As I recall, what you state below is similar in sentiment to response/s when I noted the "same" comment concerning Princeton EL in the past. I take it from your response no one in the larger EL community (including HPC/HTC) shares the Princeton "sentiment" and that there is no "basis in data/fact" for it? At that time, we decided to deploy SL; CentOS Stream however totally is unsatisfactory for our needs. On 12/14/20 1:10 PM, Konstantin Olchanski wrote: and ... CentOS RPMs are not 100% safe ... This is a very unexpected statement. I feel it should not be passed unquestioned. Is there any meat there or it's just a general statement on the security of the CentOS build process vs the security of the Red Hat build process vs the security of the Princeton build process? (including signatures of source code, signatures of binary packages, security of the mirror network, etc).
Re: Springdale Linux
Is there a way to see the Springdale mailing list archive? Ching Him
Re: Springdale Linux
I just checked: Ubuntu 20.04.1 LTS currently uses gcc version 9.3.0 and
GNU C Library stable release version 2.31
On 12/14/20 1:02 PM, Teh, Kenneth M. wrote:
Software collections has gcc-9. If memory serves, SL7 has gcc-4.8.
*From:* owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov
on behalf of Yasha
Karant
*Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2020 2:44 PM
*To:* scientific-linux-users@fnal.gov
*Subject:* Re: Springdale Linux
Thank you for quoting from the Princeton material. I had read the
Princeton commentary a while ago when internally we were debating SL vs.
Princeton, and went with SL because Fermilab/CERN combined have better
resources than Princeton alone. The one thing I did note and have
mentioned on this list, if memory serves, was that SL8 was to be
replaced by (the now to-be-defunct) CentOS 8, for which the comment that
such RPMs (including presumably SRPMs) are "not 100% safe" seemed
applicable. However, there was no substantial discussion of this point;
thus I assumed that as Fermilab/CERN did have a very limited deployment
RHEL license, the HEP community CentOS 8 would be verified against
"safe" RHEL for not just binary compatibility ("bug for bug") but also
"safety".
As pointed out by others on this list, I too need later C++ versions
than EL 7 has -- any idea when Springdale EL8 will be in production
distribution with a distro?
On 12/14/20 12:10 PM, Maarten wrote:
Spring is a binary clone of RHEL and the sources are not based off CentOS.
Quoting someone from the Springdale mailinglist: "Springdale Linux
formerly known as PUIAS (Princeton University Institute for Advanced
Studies) is older than CentOS and it compiles it's own binaries from the
upstream source code. It is unrelated to CentOS and in my experience
CentOS RPMs are not 100% safe. I tend to avoid them. Springdale has it's
own repos, EPEL is ok and RPM Fusion works for me. For CUDA I use RHEL
RPMs not CentOS RPMs the same goes for Chrome or anything else."
If you want to install Springdale you can just use the boot iso no DVD
needed: puias.princeton.edu/data/puias/8.3/x86_64/os/images/boot.iso
As for converting from CentOS8 to Springdale it's basically removing the
the Centos specific packages and replacing them with the Springdale
packages. I have done this with a test system and afterwards with my
personal systems that were running CentOS8. it worked flawlessly so I
will be sticking to Springdale Linux even after Rocky Linux is released.
Maarten
On 12/14/20 8:49 PM, Yasha Karant wrote:
Springdale EL (Princeton in my terminology, just as SL is
Fermilab/CERN) shows the following:
Download
DVD
i386 x86_64
8.3 TBA TBA
That is, there is no repo with an installable EL 8 ISO image. As for
repos, Springdale shows:
If you are only looking to install some rpms, you can download our
repositories on your system.
YUM Repositories for PUIAS 8? (NB: This text was thus shown as not
[yet?] available.
If Sprindale is built from CentOS, then such a build will no longer be
possible from CentOS Stream (a perpetual "beta" version, not a
production distro). Springdale (and Rocky EL) and any future SL 8 --
were the HEP community to fund such (personnel, space, and hardware
platforms) -- would need to get actual production RHEL 8 source from
IBM RH pursuant to the Linux, GPL, etc., licenses. Such sources are
not "pretty" and are deliberately designed to be "unfriendly" to build
from source, even with removal of all of the proprietary "logo" IP.
The idea of keeping SL 7 "alive" with perpetual backporting also may
not be attractive. For now, until IBM RH announces for CentOS 7 what
was announced for the to-be-defunct CentOS 8, CentOS 7 can keep SL 7
patched for security, albeit not necessarily for new hardware (e.g.,
backporting drivers) or supporting new CPU and system I/O architectures.
Yasha Karant
On 12/14/20 3:39 AM, Maarten wrote:
I already converted over my personal systems over to Springdale Linux
without having to reinstall because it saved me from having to
reinstall Debian from scratch on all of my systems.
On 12/14/20 12:37 PM, Tapia, Ron wrote:
Hi,
Is anyone considering Springdale Linux
(https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__springdale.math.ias.edu_=DwIFAw=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=fXPV3dpZLhNbng7dmn_Ujhzb4ZuEw1y-JygmhWnmWFc=X_cL7uUNfZJblixsdJpO5f8utO2X1cLdZWYLVmfwc-s=
) as a way forward after SL7?
Thanks,
Ron
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Re: Springdale Linux
> > > and ... CentOS RPMs are not 100% safe ... > This is a very unexpected statement. I feel it should not be passed unquestioned. Is there any meat there or it's just a general statement on the security of the CentOS build process vs the security of the Red Hat build process vs the security of the Princeton build process? (including signatures of source code, signatures of binary packages, security of the mirror network, etc). -- Konstantin Olchanski Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow! Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada
Re: Springdale Linux
Software collections has gcc-9. If memory serves, SL7 has gcc-4.8.
From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov
on behalf of Yasha Karant
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2020 2:44 PM
To: scientific-linux-users@fnal.gov
Subject: Re: Springdale Linux
Thank you for quoting from the Princeton material. I had read the
Princeton commentary a while ago when internally we were debating SL vs.
Princeton, and went with SL because Fermilab/CERN combined have better
resources than Princeton alone. The one thing I did note and have
mentioned on this list, if memory serves, was that SL8 was to be
replaced by (the now to-be-defunct) CentOS 8, for which the comment that
such RPMs (including presumably SRPMs) are "not 100% safe" seemed
applicable. However, there was no substantial discussion of this point;
thus I assumed that as Fermilab/CERN did have a very limited deployment
RHEL license, the HEP community CentOS 8 would be verified against
"safe" RHEL for not just binary compatibility ("bug for bug") but also
"safety".
As pointed out by others on this list, I too need later C++ versions
than EL 7 has -- any idea when Springdale EL8 will be in production
distribution with a distro?
On 12/14/20 12:10 PM, Maarten wrote:
> Spring is a binary clone of RHEL and the sources are not based off CentOS.
>
> Quoting someone from the Springdale mailinglist: "Springdale Linux
> formerly known as PUIAS (Princeton University Institute for Advanced
> Studies) is older than CentOS and it compiles it's own binaries from the
> upstream source code. It is unrelated to CentOS and in my experience
> CentOS RPMs are not 100% safe. I tend to avoid them. Springdale has it's
> own repos, EPEL is ok and RPM Fusion works for me. For CUDA I use RHEL
> RPMs not CentOS RPMs the same goes for Chrome or anything else."
>
> If you want to install Springdale you can just use the boot iso no DVD
> needed: puias.princeton.edu/data/puias/8.3/x86_64/os/images/boot.iso
>
> As for converting from CentOS8 to Springdale it's basically removing the
> the Centos specific packages and replacing them with the Springdale
> packages. I have done this with a test system and afterwards with my
> personal systems that were running CentOS8. it worked flawlessly so I
> will be sticking to Springdale Linux even after Rocky Linux is released.
>
> Maarten
>
> On 12/14/20 8:49 PM, Yasha Karant wrote:
>> Springdale EL (Princeton in my terminology, just as SL is
>> Fermilab/CERN) shows the following:
>>
>> Download
>> DVD
>>
>> i386x86_64
>> 8.3TBATBA
>>
>> That is, there is no repo with an installable EL 8 ISO image. As for
>> repos, Springdale shows:
>>
>> If you are only looking to install some rpms, you can download our
>> repositories on your system.
>>
>> YUM Repositories for PUIAS 8? (NB: This text was thus shown as not
>> [yet?] available.
>>
>> If Sprindale is built from CentOS, then such a build will no longer be
>> possible from CentOS Stream (a perpetual "beta" version, not a
>> production distro). Springdale (and Rocky EL) and any future SL 8 --
>> were the HEP community to fund such (personnel, space, and hardware
>> platforms) -- would need to get actual production RHEL 8 source from
>> IBM RH pursuant to the Linux, GPL, etc., licenses. Such sources are
>> not "pretty" and are deliberately designed to be "unfriendly" to build
>> from source, even with removal of all of the proprietary "logo" IP.
>> The idea of keeping SL 7 "alive" with perpetual backporting also may
>> not be attractive. For now, until IBM RH announces for CentOS 7 what
>> was announced for the to-be-defunct CentOS 8, CentOS 7 can keep SL 7
>> patched for security, albeit not necessarily for new hardware (e.g.,
>> backporting drivers) or supporting new CPU and system I/O architectures.
>>
>> Yasha Karant
>>
>> On 12/14/20 3:39 AM, Maarten wrote:
>>> I already converted over my personal systems over to Springdale Linux
>>> without having to reinstall because it saved me from having to
>>> reinstall Debian from scratch on all of my systems.
>>>
>>> On 12/14/20 12:37 PM, Tapia, Ron wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Is anyone considering Springdale Linux
>>>> (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__springdale.math.ias.edu_=DwIFAw=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=fXPV3dpZLhNbng7dmn_Ujhzb4ZuEw1y-JygmhWnmWFc=X_cL7uUNfZJblixsdJpO5f8utO2X1cLdZWYLVmfwc-s=
>>>> ) as a way forward after SL7?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>
>>>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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>>>>
>>>> iEYEARECAAYFAwjxL0ACgkQsLQYPxkqfX1aqQCfaX9hgVThuWiqXNOnRa73wA32
>>>> eAYAn1wwCkBr+iYJX/PZ4X6/m8DuCtVd
>>>> =INeofakesigforsafelinks
>>>> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Springdale Linux
Thank you for quoting from the Princeton material. I had read the
Princeton commentary a while ago when internally we were debating SL vs.
Princeton, and went with SL because Fermilab/CERN combined have better
resources than Princeton alone. The one thing I did note and have
mentioned on this list, if memory serves, was that SL8 was to be
replaced by (the now to-be-defunct) CentOS 8, for which the comment that
such RPMs (including presumably SRPMs) are "not 100% safe" seemed
applicable. However, there was no substantial discussion of this point;
thus I assumed that as Fermilab/CERN did have a very limited deployment
RHEL license, the HEP community CentOS 8 would be verified against
"safe" RHEL for not just binary compatibility ("bug for bug") but also
"safety".
As pointed out by others on this list, I too need later C++ versions
than EL 7 has -- any idea when Springdale EL8 will be in production
distribution with a distro?
On 12/14/20 12:10 PM, Maarten wrote:
Spring is a binary clone of RHEL and the sources are not based off CentOS.
Quoting someone from the Springdale mailinglist: "Springdale Linux
formerly known as PUIAS (Princeton University Institute for Advanced
Studies) is older than CentOS and it compiles it's own binaries from the
upstream source code. It is unrelated to CentOS and in my experience
CentOS RPMs are not 100% safe. I tend to avoid them. Springdale has it's
own repos, EPEL is ok and RPM Fusion works for me. For CUDA I use RHEL
RPMs not CentOS RPMs the same goes for Chrome or anything else."
If you want to install Springdale you can just use the boot iso no DVD
needed: puias.princeton.edu/data/puias/8.3/x86_64/os/images/boot.iso
As for converting from CentOS8 to Springdale it's basically removing the
the Centos specific packages and replacing them with the Springdale
packages. I have done this with a test system and afterwards with my
personal systems that were running CentOS8. it worked flawlessly so I
will be sticking to Springdale Linux even after Rocky Linux is released.
Maarten
On 12/14/20 8:49 PM, Yasha Karant wrote:
Springdale EL (Princeton in my terminology, just as SL is
Fermilab/CERN) shows the following:
Download
DVD
i386 x86_64
8.3 TBA TBA
That is, there is no repo with an installable EL 8 ISO image. As for
repos, Springdale shows:
If you are only looking to install some rpms, you can download our
repositories on your system.
YUM Repositories for PUIAS 8? (NB: This text was thus shown as not
[yet?] available.
If Sprindale is built from CentOS, then such a build will no longer be
possible from CentOS Stream (a perpetual "beta" version, not a
production distro). Springdale (and Rocky EL) and any future SL 8 --
were the HEP community to fund such (personnel, space, and hardware
platforms) -- would need to get actual production RHEL 8 source from
IBM RH pursuant to the Linux, GPL, etc., licenses. Such sources are
not "pretty" and are deliberately designed to be "unfriendly" to build
from source, even with removal of all of the proprietary "logo" IP.
The idea of keeping SL 7 "alive" with perpetual backporting also may
not be attractive. For now, until IBM RH announces for CentOS 7 what
was announced for the to-be-defunct CentOS 8, CentOS 7 can keep SL 7
patched for security, albeit not necessarily for new hardware (e.g.,
backporting drivers) or supporting new CPU and system I/O architectures.
Yasha Karant
On 12/14/20 3:39 AM, Maarten wrote:
I already converted over my personal systems over to Springdale Linux
without having to reinstall because it saved me from having to
reinstall Debian from scratch on all of my systems.
On 12/14/20 12:37 PM, Tapia, Ron wrote:
Hi,
Is anyone considering Springdale Linux
(https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__springdale.math.ias.edu_=DwIFAw=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=fXPV3dpZLhNbng7dmn_Ujhzb4ZuEw1y-JygmhWnmWFc=X_cL7uUNfZJblixsdJpO5f8utO2X1cLdZWYLVmfwc-s=
) as a way forward after SL7?
Thanks,
Ron
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Re: Springdale Linux
Spring is a binary clone of RHEL and the sources are not based off CentOS. Quoting someone from the Springdale mailinglist: "Springdale Linux formerly known as PUIAS (Princeton University Institute for Advanced Studies) is older than CentOS and it compiles it's own binaries from the upstream source code. It is unrelated to CentOS and in my experience CentOS RPMs are not 100% safe. I tend to avoid them. Springdale has it's own repos, EPEL is ok and RPM Fusion works for me. For CUDA I use RHEL RPMs not CentOS RPMs the same goes for Chrome or anything else." If you want to install Springdale you can just use the boot iso no DVD needed: puias.princeton.edu/data/puias/8.3/x86_64/os/images/boot.iso As for converting from CentOS8 to Springdale it's basically removing the the Centos specific packages and replacing them with the Springdale packages. I have done this with a test system and afterwards with my personal systems that were running CentOS8. it worked flawlessly so I will be sticking to Springdale Linux even after Rocky Linux is released. Maarten On 12/14/20 8:49 PM, Yasha Karant wrote: Springdale EL (Princeton in my terminology, just as SL is Fermilab/CERN) shows the following: Download DVD i386 x86_64 8.3 TBA TBA That is, there is no repo with an installable EL 8 ISO image. As for repos, Springdale shows: If you are only looking to install some rpms, you can download our repositories on your system. YUM Repositories for PUIAS 8? (NB: This text was thus shown as not [yet?] available. If Sprindale is built from CentOS, then such a build will no longer be possible from CentOS Stream (a perpetual "beta" version, not a production distro). Springdale (and Rocky EL) and any future SL 8 -- were the HEP community to fund such (personnel, space, and hardware platforms) -- would need to get actual production RHEL 8 source from IBM RH pursuant to the Linux, GPL, etc., licenses. Such sources are not "pretty" and are deliberately designed to be "unfriendly" to build from source, even with removal of all of the proprietary "logo" IP. The idea of keeping SL 7 "alive" with perpetual backporting also may not be attractive. For now, until IBM RH announces for CentOS 7 what was announced for the to-be-defunct CentOS 8, CentOS 7 can keep SL 7 patched for security, albeit not necessarily for new hardware (e.g., backporting drivers) or supporting new CPU and system I/O architectures. Yasha Karant On 12/14/20 3:39 AM, Maarten wrote: I already converted over my personal systems over to Springdale Linux without having to reinstall because it saved me from having to reinstall Debian from scratch on all of my systems. On 12/14/20 12:37 PM, Tapia, Ron wrote: Hi, Is anyone considering Springdale Linux (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__springdale.math.ias.edu_=DwIFAw=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=fXPV3dpZLhNbng7dmn_Ujhzb4ZuEw1y-JygmhWnmWFc=X_cL7uUNfZJblixsdJpO5f8utO2X1cLdZWYLVmfwc-s= ) as a way forward after SL7? Thanks, Ron -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAwjxL0ACgkQsLQYPxkqfX1aqQCfaX9hgVThuWiqXNOnRa73wA32 eAYAn1wwCkBr+iYJX/PZ4X6/m8DuCtVd =INeofakesigforsafelinks -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Springdale Linux
Springdale EL (Princeton in my terminology, just as SL is Fermilab/CERN) shows the following: Download DVD i386x86_64 8.3 TBA TBA That is, there is no repo with an installable EL 8 ISO image. As for repos, Springdale shows: If you are only looking to install some rpms, you can download our repositories on your system. YUM Repositories for PUIAS 8? (NB: This text was thus shown as not [yet?] available. If Sprindale is built from CentOS, then such a build will no longer be possible from CentOS Stream (a perpetual "beta" version, not a production distro). Springdale (and Rocky EL) and any future SL 8 -- were the HEP community to fund such (personnel, space, and hardware platforms) -- would need to get actual production RHEL 8 source from IBM RH pursuant to the Linux, GPL, etc., licenses. Such sources are not "pretty" and are deliberately designed to be "unfriendly" to build from source, even with removal of all of the proprietary "logo" IP. The idea of keeping SL 7 "alive" with perpetual backporting also may not be attractive. For now, until IBM RH announces for CentOS 7 what was announced for the to-be-defunct CentOS 8, CentOS 7 can keep SL 7 patched for security, albeit not necessarily for new hardware (e.g., backporting drivers) or supporting new CPU and system I/O architectures. Yasha Karant On 12/14/20 3:39 AM, Maarten wrote: I already converted over my personal systems over to Springdale Linux without having to reinstall because it saved me from having to reinstall Debian from scratch on all of my systems. On 12/14/20 12:37 PM, Tapia, Ron wrote: Hi, Is anyone considering Springdale Linux (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__springdale.math.ias.edu_=DwIFAw=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=fXPV3dpZLhNbng7dmn_Ujhzb4ZuEw1y-JygmhWnmWFc=X_cL7uUNfZJblixsdJpO5f8utO2X1cLdZWYLVmfwc-s= ) as a way forward after SL7? Thanks, Ron -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAwjxL0ACgkQsLQYPxkqfX1aqQCfaX9hgVThuWiqXNOnRa73wA32 eAYAn1wwCkBr+iYJX/PZ4X6/m8DuCtVd =INeofakesigforsafelinks -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Springdale Linux
I already converted over my personal systems over to Springdale Linux without having to reinstall because it saved me from having to reinstall Debian from scratch on all of my systems. On 12/14/20 12:37 PM, Tapia, Ron wrote: Hi, Is anyone considering Springdale Linux (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__springdale.math.ias.edu_=DwIFAw=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=fXPV3dpZLhNbng7dmn_Ujhzb4ZuEw1y-JygmhWnmWFc=X_cL7uUNfZJblixsdJpO5f8utO2X1cLdZWYLVmfwc-s= ) as a way forward after SL7? Thanks, Ron -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAwjxL0ACgkQsLQYPxkqfX1aqQCfaX9hgVThuWiqXNOnRa73wA32 eAYAn1wwCkBr+iYJX/PZ4X6/m8DuCtVd =INeofakesigforsafelinks -END PGP SIGNATURE-
