Re: is the disk failing ?
Radha, Over the decades of my dealing with hundreds of thousands of disks in data centers my experience comes down to this. 1) if smart says its going to die trust it its rarely wrong about failures. 2) if smart says its fine, but you are getting IO errors use the badblocks and or fdisk to verify. %60 of the time it will be a file system problem, %39 of the time it will be something wrong smart didn't detect, the rest will be something else like in no particular order a bad kernel version, bad bios revision, bad controller, or bad cable. by the way this happened to me this year on one of my personal laptops with a toshiba drive smart said it was fine but badblocks revealed it had bad sectors and more were going bad by the day. Lastly any one who would like to discuss how the raid controllers for HP server, Dell servers, work and relates subjects like SMI-S feel free to contact me off the list, butI wont engage any further with a flame war based on the uninformed opinions of people on an open list. frankly I can back up what I say with published proven facts by reputable experts, but many people do not respond well when presented with real facts based on evidence. On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 8:11 PM Konstantin Olchanski wrote: > On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 11:57:34PM +, Hinz, David (GE Healthcare) > wrote: > > I'd like to submit an opposing viewpoint. > > If SMART disk analysis says it's going to break, replace it. > > Nothing is worth risking lost data. > > > I second this. > > My only case of false positive (SMART reports complete failure while > disk still seems to work) has been a worn out 2 TB "green" WD disk. > By "worn out" I mean that it was (a) heavily used and (b) all it's mates > of same vintage, age and heavy use have already failed (with i/o errors, > etc). > > > K.O. > > > > > > > > > > On 10/17/18, 4:50 PM, "owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov > on behalf of Konstantin Olchanski" < > owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov on behalf of > olcha...@triumf.ca> wrote: > > > > > > > > # smartctl -a /dev/sda > > > ... > > > Device Model: TOSHIBA MG03ACA100 > > > ... > > > > Thank you for posting your data, here is my reading of smartctl data: > > > > > > > > === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === > > > SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED > > > > > > > this you can ignore, I have held in my hands disks that reported > "PASSED" > > but were dead, could not read, could not write anything. Also had > > disks that worked perfectly but reported "FAILED" here. > > > > > > Next goes the meat of the data: > > > > > ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE > UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE > > > 4 Start_Stop_Count0x0032 100 100 000Old_age > Always - 26 > > > > Your disk is brand new, only ever saw 26 power cycles. > > > > > 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 051 051 000Old_age > Always - 19725 > > > > Your disk is brand new, 19725 hours is 2.2 years. > > > > > 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 100 100 000Old_age > Always - 32 (Min/Max 20/37) > > > > You have good cooling, temperature is 32C, as high as 40C is usually > okey, above 50C means the cooling fans are dead. > > > > > 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 050Pre-fail > Always - 0 > > > 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 100 100 000Old_age > Always - 0 > > > 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0030 100 100 000Old_age > Offline - 0 > > > 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count0x0032 200 200 000Old_age > Always - 0 > > > > Your disk does not report any problems reading or writing data to > the magnetic media. > > > > Conclusion: healthy as a bull. > > > > -- > > Konstantin Olchanski > > Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow! > > Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca > > Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, > Canada > > > > > > -- > Konstantin Olchanski > Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow! > Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca > Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada >
Re: is the disk failing ?
On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 11:57:34PM +, Hinz, David (GE Healthcare) wrote: > I'd like to submit an opposing viewpoint. > If SMART disk analysis says it's going to break, replace it. > Nothing is worth risking lost data. I second this. My only case of false positive (SMART reports complete failure while disk still seems to work) has been a worn out 2 TB "green" WD disk. By "worn out" I mean that it was (a) heavily used and (b) all it's mates of same vintage, age and heavy use have already failed (with i/o errors, etc). K.O. > > > On 10/17/18, 4:50 PM, "owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov on > behalf of Konstantin Olchanski" > olcha...@triumf.ca> wrote: > > > > > # smartctl -a /dev/sda > > ... > > Device Model: TOSHIBA MG03ACA100 > > ... > > Thank you for posting your data, here is my reading of smartctl data: > > > > > === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === > > SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED > > > > this you can ignore, I have held in my hands disks that reported "PASSED" > but were dead, could not read, could not write anything. Also had > disks that worked perfectly but reported "FAILED" here. > > > Next goes the meat of the data: > > > ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED > WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE > > 4 Start_Stop_Count0x0032 100 100 000Old_age Always > - 26 > > Your disk is brand new, only ever saw 26 power cycles. > > > 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 051 051 000Old_age Always > - 19725 > > Your disk is brand new, 19725 hours is 2.2 years. > > > 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 100 100 000Old_age Always > - 32 (Min/Max 20/37) > > You have good cooling, temperature is 32C, as high as 40C is usually > okey, above 50C means the cooling fans are dead. > > > 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 050Pre-fail Always > - 0 > > 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 100 100 000Old_age Always > - 0 > > 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0030 100 100 000Old_age > Offline - 0 > > 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count0x0032 200 200 000Old_age Always > - 0 > > Your disk does not report any problems reading or writing data to the > magnetic media. > > Conclusion: healthy as a bull. > > -- > Konstantin Olchanski > Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow! > Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca > Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada > > -- Konstantin Olchanski Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow! Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada
Re: is the disk failing ?
I'd like to submit an opposing viewpoint. If SMART disk analysis says it's going to break, replace it. Nothing is worth risking lost data. On 10/17/18, 4:50 PM, "owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov on behalf of Konstantin Olchanski" wrote: > > # smartctl -a /dev/sda > ... > Device Model: TOSHIBA MG03ACA100 > ... Thank you for posting your data, here is my reading of smartctl data: > > === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === > SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED > this you can ignore, I have held in my hands disks that reported "PASSED" but were dead, could not read, could not write anything. Also had disks that worked perfectly but reported "FAILED" here. Next goes the meat of the data: > ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE > 4 Start_Stop_Count0x0032 100 100 000Old_age Always - 26 Your disk is brand new, only ever saw 26 power cycles. > 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 051 051 000Old_age Always - 19725 Your disk is brand new, 19725 hours is 2.2 years. > 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 100 100 000Old_age Always - 32 (Min/Max 20/37) You have good cooling, temperature is 32C, as high as 40C is usually okey, above 50C means the cooling fans are dead. > 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 050Pre-fail Always - 0 > 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 100 100 000Old_age Always - 0 > 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0030 100 100 000Old_age Offline - 0 > 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count0x0032 200 200 000Old_age Always - 0 Your disk does not report any problems reading or writing data to the magnetic media. Conclusion: healthy as a bull. -- Konstantin Olchanski Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow! Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada
Re: is the disk failing ?
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 09:09:36PM -0400, Paul Robert Marino wrote:
>
> to be clear I wasn't saying Smart is useless just that smartctl doesn't
> always tell you every thing so you shouldn't rely as a definitive answer on
> all issues on all disks.
>
I disagree with "smartctl doesn't always tell you every thing".
I maintain that smartctl reports all the data available regarding disk health.
But perhaps you can give us an example of disk health data that is available,
but is not reported by SMART.
I can give folowing examples of disk health related data that cannot be reported
by SMART because relevant sensors are not present on the disk devices.
You can gain additional insight by touching the disk with your fingers
to see if there is excessive vibrations or excessive heat build up
or no flow of cooling air across the disk.
With ancient disks you could also see gradual degradation of read/write
speeds (as reported by the OS, "iostat -x 1", "vmstat 1", & co).
>
> As for raid controllers well that's a very long conversation there are good
> reasons the enterprise ones do not, at least not directly in a way you can
> extract using the smartctl command instead they have more advanced checks
> available through the drivers and additional monitoring tools provided by
> the manufacturer of the raid controller.
>
"good reasons ... [to hide SMART data]", "advanced checks",
"additional monitoring tools".
I smell snake oil.
In my experience, the "advanced additional tools" is a plan-jane raid
scrub cycle ("dd if=/dev/raid-disk of=/dev/null") with complaints
about any i/o errors. No checks/complaints if per-disk SMART counters increase,
no check for increment of disk "realocated sectors count",
no check for increased "raw read error rate", and definitely no complaint
if disk temperature (reported by SMART) goes above any reasonable limit.
>
> as for the predictive nature of smart well that's actually in its
> specification it predicts errors based on indicators.
>
Well, if wikipedia are saying "SMART predicts disk failures", then it must be
so.
Myself, I do not read wikipedia, I read this:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.backblaze.com_blog_what-2Dsmart-2Dstats-2Dindicate-2Dhard-2Ddrive-2Dfailures_=DwIBAg=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=G32iZqqMKOiFI0IWyvFtMeiPBUmMGLDfwv-XJICRLMg=WP3knY1XbE8k3rNWhR9RbTdJY8wSqIkutTWHO7cbgZw=
K.O.
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 7:55 PM Konstantin Olchanski
> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 04:20:03PM -0400, Paul Robert Marino wrote:
> > >
> > > smart is predictive and doesn't catch all errors its also not compatible
> > > with all disks and controllers especially raid capable controllers.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Do not reject SMART as useless, it correctly reports many actual disk
> > failures:
> >
> > a) overheating (actual disk temperature is reported in degrees Centigrade)
> > b) unreadable sectors (data on these sectors is already lost) - disk model
> > dependant
> > c) "hard to read" sectors (WD specific - "raw read error rate")
> > d) sata link communication errors ("CRC error count")
> >
> > even more useful actual (*not* predictive) stuff is reported for SSDs
> > (again, model dependant)
> >
> > it is true that much of this information is disk model dependant and
> > one has to have some experience with the SMART data to be able
> > to read it in a meaningful way.
> >
> > as for raid controllers that prevent access to disk SMART data,
> > they are as safe to use a car with a blank dashboard (no fuel level,
> > no engine temperature, no speedometer, etc).
> >
> >
> > --
> > Konstantin Olchanski
> > Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow!
> > Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca
> > Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada
> >
--
Konstantin Olchanski
Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow!
Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca
Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada
Re: is the disk failing ?
> > # smartctl -a /dev/sda > ... > Device Model: TOSHIBA MG03ACA100 > ... Thank you for posting your data, here is my reading of smartctl data: > > === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === > SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED > this you can ignore, I have held in my hands disks that reported "PASSED" but were dead, could not read, could not write anything. Also had disks that worked perfectly but reported "FAILED" here. Next goes the meat of the data: > ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED > WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE > 4 Start_Stop_Count0x0032 100 100 000Old_age Always > - 26 Your disk is brand new, only ever saw 26 power cycles. > 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 051 051 000Old_age Always > - 19725 Your disk is brand new, 19725 hours is 2.2 years. > 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 100 100 000Old_age Always > - 32 (Min/Max 20/37) You have good cooling, temperature is 32C, as high as 40C is usually okey, above 50C means the cooling fans are dead. > 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 050Pre-fail Always > - 0 > 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 100 100 000Old_age Always > - 0 > 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0030 100 100 000Old_age Offline > - 0 > 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count0x0032 200 200 000Old_age Always > - 0 Your disk does not report any problems reading or writing data to the magnetic media. Conclusion: healthy as a bull. -- Konstantin Olchanski Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow! Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada
Re: is the disk failing ?
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 8:20 PM Radha Mohan wrote:
>
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 6:09 PM Paul Robert Marino
> wrote:
> >
> > to be clear I wasn't saying Smart is useless just that smartctl doesn't
> > always tell you every thing so you shouldn't rely as a definitive answer on
> > all issues on all disks.
> >
> > As for raid controllers well that's a very long conversation there are good
> > reasons the enterprise ones do not, at least not directly in a way you can
> > extract using the smartctl command instead they have more advanced checks
> > available through the drivers and additional monitoring tools provided by
> > the manufacturer of the raid controller.
> >
> > as for the predictive nature of smart well that's actually in its
> > specification it predicts errors based on indicators.
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 7:55 PM Konstantin Olchanski
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 04:20:03PM -0400, Paul Robert Marino wrote:
> >> >
> >> > smart is predictive and doesn't catch all errors its also not compatible
> >> > with all disks and controllers especially raid capable controllers.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Do not reject SMART as useless, it correctly reports many actual disk
> >> failures:
> >>
> >> a) overheating (actual disk temperature is reported in degrees Centigrade)
> >> b) unreadable sectors (data on these sectors is already lost) - disk model
> >> dependant
> >> c) "hard to read" sectors (WD specific - "raw read error rate")
> >> d) sata link communication errors ("CRC error count")
> >>
> >> even more useful actual (*not* predictive) stuff is reported for SSDs
> >> (again, model dependant)
> >>
> >> it is true that much of this information is disk model dependant and
> >> one has to have some experience with the SMART data to be able
> >> to read it in a meaningful way.
> >>
> >> as for raid controllers that prevent access to disk SMART data,
> >> they are as safe to use a car with a blank dashboard (no fuel level,
> >> no engine temperature, no speedometer, etc).
> >>
>
> Posting " smartctl -a" output below.
> Also just wanted to mention that I have only single disk on my
> machine. So the disk has not failed. I was able to restart the machine
> lot of times and the OS came up nice.
>
> # smartctl -a /dev/sda
> smartctl 6.2 2017-02-27 r4394
> [x86_64-linux-3.10.0-862.14.4.el7.x86_64] (local build)
> Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke,
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.smartmontools.org=DwIFaQ=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=kQ8vvayrVpln1ARGxS9sNz5F4E2AypuC4yVAsVT_nO4=994EuiJp86AYjKROB14_SvOCF1tiERWKXFElbEjMDvo=
>
> === START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
> Model Family: Toshiba 3.5" MG03ACAxxx(Y) Enterprise HDD
> Device Model: TOSHIBA MG03ACA100
> Serial Number:46SIKCQFF
> LU WWN Device Id: 5 39 6fbf81f8b
> Add. Product Id: DELL(tm)
> Firmware Version: FL2H
> User Capacity:1,000,204,886,016 bytes [1.00 TB]
> Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical
> Rotation Rate:7200 rpm
> Device is:In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
> ATA Version is: ATA8-ACS (minor revision not indicated)
> SATA Version is: SATA 3.0, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 6.0 Gb/s)
> Local Time is:Tue Oct 16 20:17:41 2018 PDT
> SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
> SMART support is: Enabled
>
> === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
> SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
> Warning: This result is based on an Attribute check.
>
> General SMART Values:
> Offline data collection status: (0x85) Offline data collection activity
> was aborted by an interrupting command from host.
> Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
> Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine
> completed
> without error or no self-test has ever
> been run.
> Total time to complete Offline
> data collection: ( 90) seconds.
> Offline data collection
> capabilities: (0x5b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
> Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
> Suspend Offline collection upon new
> command.
> Offline surface scan supported.
> Self-test supported.
> No Conveyance Self-test supported.
> Selective Self-test supported.
> SMART capabilities:(0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
> power-saving mode.
> Supports SMART auto save timer.
> Error logging capability:(0x01) Error logging supported.
> General Purpose Logging supported.
> Short self-test routine
> recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes.
> Extended self-test routine
> recommended polling time: ( 164) minutes.
> SCT capabilities:(0x003d) SCT Status supported.
> SCT Error Recovery Control supported.
> SCT Feature Control supported.
> SCT Data Table supported.
>
> SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
> Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE
> UPDATED
Re: is the disk failing ?
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 6:09 PM Paul Robert Marino wrote:
>
> to be clear I wasn't saying Smart is useless just that smartctl doesn't
> always tell you every thing so you shouldn't rely as a definitive answer on
> all issues on all disks.
>
> As for raid controllers well that's a very long conversation there are good
> reasons the enterprise ones do not, at least not directly in a way you can
> extract using the smartctl command instead they have more advanced checks
> available through the drivers and additional monitoring tools provided by the
> manufacturer of the raid controller.
>
> as for the predictive nature of smart well that's actually in its
> specification it predicts errors based on indicators.
>
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 7:55 PM Konstantin Olchanski
> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 04:20:03PM -0400, Paul Robert Marino wrote:
>> >
>> > smart is predictive and doesn't catch all errors its also not compatible
>> > with all disks and controllers especially raid capable controllers.
>> >
>>
>>
>> Do not reject SMART as useless, it correctly reports many actual disk
>> failures:
>>
>> a) overheating (actual disk temperature is reported in degrees Centigrade)
>> b) unreadable sectors (data on these sectors is already lost) - disk model
>> dependant
>> c) "hard to read" sectors (WD specific - "raw read error rate")
>> d) sata link communication errors ("CRC error count")
>>
>> even more useful actual (*not* predictive) stuff is reported for SSDs
>> (again, model dependant)
>>
>> it is true that much of this information is disk model dependant and
>> one has to have some experience with the SMART data to be able
>> to read it in a meaningful way.
>>
>> as for raid controllers that prevent access to disk SMART data,
>> they are as safe to use a car with a blank dashboard (no fuel level,
>> no engine temperature, no speedometer, etc).
>>
Posting " smartctl -a" output below.
Also just wanted to mention that I have only single disk on my
machine. So the disk has not failed. I was able to restart the machine
lot of times and the OS came up nice.
# smartctl -a /dev/sda
smartctl 6.2 2017-02-27 r4394
[x86_64-linux-3.10.0-862.14.4.el7.x86_64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke,
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.smartmontools.org=DwIFaQ=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=HVdbO_Zor-zyG5wjg1a513ELmsH-s6kV9BOATEv8HT4=0RkyV6zeuis8j3X9vh4DjMK3wxnckgIh-soHjAWzJGo=
=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Toshiba 3.5" MG03ACAxxx(Y) Enterprise HDD
Device Model: TOSHIBA MG03ACA100
Serial Number:46SIKCQFF
LU WWN Device Id: 5 39 6fbf81f8b
Add. Product Id: DELL(tm)
Firmware Version: FL2H
User Capacity:1,000,204,886,016 bytes [1.00 TB]
Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical
Rotation Rate:7200 rpm
Device is:In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is: ATA8-ACS (minor revision not indicated)
SATA Version is: SATA 3.0, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 6.0 Gb/s)
Local Time is:Tue Oct 16 20:17:41 2018 PDT
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled
=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
Warning: This result is based on an Attribute check.
General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status: (0x85) Offline data collection activity
was aborted by an interrupting command from host.
Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine completed
without error or no self-test has ever
been run.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection: ( 90) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities: (0x5b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
Suspend Offline collection upon new
command.
Offline surface scan supported.
Self-test supported.
No Conveyance Self-test supported.
Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities:(0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
power-saving mode.
Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability:(0x01) Error logging supported.
General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 164) minutes.
SCT capabilities:(0x003d) SCT Status supported.
SCT Error Recovery Control supported.
SCT Feature Control supported.
SCT Data Table supported.
SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE
UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000b 100 100 050Pre-fail
Always - 0
2 Throughput_Performance 0x0004 100 100 000Old_age
Offline - 0
3 Spin_Up_Time0x0027 100 100 001Pre-fail
Always -
Re: is the disk failing ?
to be clear I wasn't saying Smart is useless just that smartctl doesn't
always tell you every thing so you shouldn't rely as a definitive answer on
all issues on all disks.
As for raid controllers well that's a very long conversation there are good
reasons the enterprise ones do not, at least not directly in a way you can
extract using the smartctl command instead they have more advanced checks
available through the drivers and additional monitoring tools provided by
the manufacturer of the raid controller.
as for the predictive nature of smart well that's actually in its
specification it predicts errors based on indicators.
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 7:55 PM Konstantin Olchanski
wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 04:20:03PM -0400, Paul Robert Marino wrote:
> >
> > smart is predictive and doesn't catch all errors its also not compatible
> > with all disks and controllers especially raid capable controllers.
> >
>
>
> Do not reject SMART as useless, it correctly reports many actual disk
> failures:
>
> a) overheating (actual disk temperature is reported in degrees Centigrade)
> b) unreadable sectors (data on these sectors is already lost) - disk model
> dependant
> c) "hard to read" sectors (WD specific - "raw read error rate")
> d) sata link communication errors ("CRC error count")
>
> even more useful actual (*not* predictive) stuff is reported for SSDs
> (again, model dependant)
>
> it is true that much of this information is disk model dependant and
> one has to have some experience with the SMART data to be able
> to read it in a meaningful way.
>
> as for raid controllers that prevent access to disk SMART data,
> they are as safe to use a car with a blank dashboard (no fuel level,
> no engine temperature, no speedometer, etc).
>
>
> --
> Konstantin Olchanski
> Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow!
> Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca
> Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada
>
Re: is the disk failing ?
Konstantin Olchanski wrote on 10/16/18 6:55 PM: [snip...] as for raid controllers that prevent access to disk SMART data, they are as safe to use a car with a blank dashboard (no fuel level, no engine temperature, no speedometer, etc). Oy! Had some of those, but I "Promise" not to mention any vendor names. ;-} -- P. Larry Nelson (217-693-7418) | IT Administrator Emeritus 810 Ventura Rd.| High Energy Physics Group Champaign, IL 61820 | Physics Dept., Univ. of Ill. MailTo: lnel...@illinois.edu | https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__hep.physics.illinois.edu_home_lnelson_=DwICaQ=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A=IC6JnGOHzXnPNBJL3lAfI3rME-jUIv6qSI66HHKjsU8=7DfVCFoLT9KElMJ4vdLL-T-36GKMIawDz1Z_iibWNJs= -- "Information without accountability is just noise." - P.L. Nelson
Re: is the disk failing ?
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 04:20:03PM -0400, Paul Robert Marino wrote:
>
> smart is predictive and doesn't catch all errors its also not compatible
> with all disks and controllers especially raid capable controllers.
>
Do not reject SMART as useless, it correctly reports many actual disk failures:
a) overheating (actual disk temperature is reported in degrees Centigrade)
b) unreadable sectors (data on these sectors is already lost) - disk model
dependant
c) "hard to read" sectors (WD specific - "raw read error rate")
d) sata link communication errors ("CRC error count")
even more useful actual (*not* predictive) stuff is reported for SSDs (again,
model dependant)
it is true that much of this information is disk model dependant and
one has to have some experience with the SMART data to be able
to read it in a meaningful way.
as for raid controllers that prevent access to disk SMART data,
they are as safe to use a car with a blank dashboard (no fuel level,
no engine temperature, no speedometer, etc).
--
Konstantin Olchanski
Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow!
Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca
Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada
Re: is the disk failing ?
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 12:24:38PM -0500, Subscribe Scientific-Linux-Users Rm wrote: > > Oct 16 10:22:25 rc-dellt430 udisksd[14184]: Error performing housekeeping for > drive /org/freedesktop/UDisks2/drives/TOSHIBA_MG03ACA100_46SIKCQFF: Error > updating SMART data: sk_disk_check_sleep_mode: Input/output error > (udisks-error-quark, 0) > If disk reports "Input/output error", then the disk has failed (already failed, not "is failing"). > > The "smartctl -A /dev/sda" isn't saying any errors with the disk. > The output of smartctl is sometimes dificuly to interpret without some experience, definitely WD and Seagate report some failure modes differently. Best if you post the output of "smartctl -a" to this list, somebody (myself included) can read it for you to tell what the exact failure problem is. But the bottom line is your disk has failed, you should replace it immediately. (good disks do not throw "i/o errors"). -- Konstantin Olchanski Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow! Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada
