Re: Fwd: CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
Hi Matthias, Michael Mansour wrote: Hi, This affects us. Imagine that all the CentOS users show up to use Scientific Linux. Imagine all their maintainers and developers show up, too. I personally don't think that's a bad thing especially if it allows SL to have the ability to open more of it's infrastructure to 3rd party extensions like the CentOS team have done for CentOS Plus etc. You are assuming that it is only the lack of developers that prevents SL from having more extensions and newer versions. I rather see it as the desire of the maintainers to stay in sync and compatible with The Upstream Distribution. And that is a policy I support. There's nothing wrong with that policy and there's also nothing wrong with having extensions. If people didn't want them then those CentOS developers wouldn't exist, as they maintain unofficial/unsupported extensions to the base OS. It's like getting an iPhone and saying I'm happy with the standard apps that Apple installs on the iPhone, for some people that's fine, for others it's not and they want to extend the functionality with apps by 3rd party developers. Some authors in this thread said something about 'competion' and 'getting more users for SL'. I do not think at all that CentOS is a competitor, and I see no fight over clients. The purpose of SL is to provide an enterprise quality distribution, with a well defined community in mind. The aim of SL is not to take over the world. For example, EL5 is stuck in the php 5.1.6 and MySQL 5.0.45 days and when you want applications which relay on at least php 5.2.x (and so many do) then you have to go to 3rd party repo's which may be incompatible with other repo's used in the environment. It's really like opening a can of worms Exactly. Better keep it close. Agreed, but still, for many apps and services TUV doesn't provide everything you need, so either don't run it on EL5 and move to another dist (not for me), compile from source (not for me either), or use another repo. The incompatibilities of some repo's is just annoying and doing nothing for the community at large. and IMHO CentOS got the right mix by having their own team of developers providing those packages which TUV doesn't. Long live CentOS. I wish they find a satisfactory solution for the issue, and keep providing CentOS, and satisfy all the clients for which SL is not new enough. I've been around Linux and Open Source since 1994 and there's one thing which is consistent about this community, resilience. We all adapt to change, learn from our mistakes and usually make things better in the long run. Regards, Michael. Matthias In case there's a question, I use SL exclusively for over 30 Linux servers, never used CentOS. Regards, Michael. Keith forwarded message --- (http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/07/30/130249/CentOS-Project- Administrator-Goes-AWOL): Lance Davis, the main project administrator for CentOS, a popular free 'rebuild' of Red Hat's Enterprise Linux, appears to have gone AWOL. In an open letter* from his fellow CentOS developers, they describe the precarious situation the project has been put in. There have been attempts to contact him for some time now, as he's the sole administrator for the centos.org domain, the IRC channels, and apparently, CentOS funds. One can only hope that Lance gets in contact with them and gets things sorted out. * Open Letter (http://www.centos.org/): July 30, 2009 04:39 UTC This is an Open Letter to Lance Davis from fellow CentOS Developers It is regrettable that we are forced to send this letter but we are left with no other options. For some time now we have been attempting to resolve these problems: You seem to have crawled into a hole ... and this is not acceptable. You have long promised a statement of CentOS project funds; to this date this has not appeared. You hold sole control of the centos.org domain with no deputy; this is not proper. You have, it seems, sole 'Founders' rights in the IRC channels with no deputy ; this is not proper. When I (Russ) try to call the phone numbers for UK Linux, and for you individually, I get a telco intercept 'Lines are temporarily busy' for the last two weeks. Finally yesterday, a voicemail in your voice picked up, and I left a message urgently requesting a reply. Karanbir also reports calling and leaving messages without your reply. Please do not kill CentOS through your fear of shared management of the project. Clearly the project dies if all the developers walk away. Please contact me, or any other signer of this letter at once, to arrange for the required information to keep the project alive at the 'centos.org' domain. Sincerely, Russ Herrold Ralph Angenendt Karanbir Singh Jim
RE: CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
Write it please, in 3-part harmony: RH--Centos Centos-SL SL-RH This would give the astute reader a snapshot of what each provides that the other doesn't, the differences in philosophy between SL (vs RH) and Centos (vs RH). We're only in competetion with Micro$oft, and if we supported more of the LARGE set of POPULAR games, we'd be more attractive. -Original Message- From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov [mailto:owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov] On Behalf Of Akemi Yagi Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:05 PM To: Scientific Linux Subject: Re: CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 6:28 PM, Serguei Mokhovserg...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Keith Lofstromkei...@kl-ic.com wrote: This affects us. Imagine that all the CentOS users show up to use Scientific Linux. Imagine all their maintainers and developers show up, too. This is a good thing for SL, isn't it? Increase the user base, I am sure Troy and Connie could use some help from the developers, and then lead to the world dominance of SL :) This affects us positively, IMHO, though perhaps there will be less competition. [cough] As someone who knows a bit of both worlds, I can offer to write a *CentOS* wiki article entitled HowTo Migrate from CentOS to SL. [/cough] Akemi - who now has to hide from all CentOS devs. *** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. www.Hubbell.com - Hubbell Incorporated**
Re: Fwd: CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009, Michael Mansour wrote: Hi, This affects us. Imagine that all the CentOS users show up to use Scientific Linux. Imagine all their maintainers and developers show up, too. I do not think that CentOS is going away. They have a strong team of developers. Lance was not involved in the day to day development. His involment is as stated in the open letter. He was in control of the donations, google ad income and centos.org domain. I personally don't think that's a bad thing especially if it allows SL to have the ability to open more of it's infrastructure to 3rd party extensions like the CentOS team have done for CentOS Plus etc. We have thought about working with CentOS more so that we can provide those CentOS addon's to the SL world. No word on if this will happen or not. For example, EL5 is stuck in the php 5.1.6 and MySQL 5.0.45 days and when you want applications which relay on at least php 5.2.x (and so many do) then you have to go to 3rd party repo's which may be incompatible with other repo's used in the environment. It's really like opening a can of worms and IMHO CentOS got the right mix by having their own team of developers providing those packages which TUV doesn't. In case there's a question, I use SL exclusively for over 30 Linux servers, never used CentOS. Regards, Michael. Keith forwarded message --- (http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/07/30/130249/CentOS-Project- Administrator-Goes-AWOL): Lance Davis, the main project administrator for CentOS, a popular free 'rebuild' of Red Hat's Enterprise Linux, appears to have gone AWOL. In an open letter* from his fellow CentOS developers, they describe the precarious situation the project has been put in. There have been attempts to contact him for some time now, as he's the sole administrator for the centos.org domain, the IRC channels, and apparently, CentOS funds. One can only hope that Lance gets in contact with them and gets things sorted out. * Open Letter (http://www.centos.org/): July 30, 2009 04:39 UTC This is an Open Letter to Lance Davis from fellow CentOS Developers It is regrettable that we are forced to send this letter but we are left with no other options. For some time now we have been attempting to resolve these problems: You seem to have crawled into a hole ... and this is not acceptable. You have long promised a statement of CentOS project funds; to this date this has not appeared. You hold sole control of the centos.org domain with no deputy; this is not proper. You have, it seems, sole 'Founders' rights in the IRC channels with no deputy ; this is not proper. When I (Russ) try to call the phone numbers for UK Linux, and for you individually, I get a telco intercept 'Lines are temporarily busy' for the last two weeks. Finally yesterday, a voicemail in your voice picked up, and I left a message urgently requesting a reply. Karanbir also reports calling and leaving messages without your reply. Please do not kill CentOS through your fear of shared management of the project. Clearly the project dies if all the developers walk away. Please contact me, or any other signer of this letter at once, to arrange for the required information to keep the project alive at the 'centos.org' domain. Sincerely, Russ Herrold Ralph Angenendt Karanbir Singh Jim Perrin Donavan Nelson Tim Verhoeven Tru Huynh Johnny Hughes -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists - end forwarded message --- -- Keith Lofstrom kei...@keithl.com Voice (503)-520- 1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- Your Ideas in Silicon Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs --- End of Original Message --- -Connie Sieh
Re: CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
On Thu, 30 Jul 2009, Serguei Mokhov wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Keith Lofstromkei...@kl-ic.com wro= te: This affects us. =A0Imagine that all the CentOS users show up to us= e Scientific Linux. =A0Imagine all their maintainers and developers s= how up, too. This is a good thing for SL, isn't it? Increase the user base, I am sure Troy and Connie could use some help from the developers, and then lead to the world dominance of SL :) This affects us positively, IMHO, though perhaps there will be less competition. I think CentOS is good for the community. And I never considered it competition. We always welcome help. I do not think CentOS is going away. We have talked to them in the past about us helping them to make CentOS 6 and then use CentOS 6 as a basis for SL. No word on if this will or will not happen. There may be some users who do not like the uncertainly of the future of a open source project. Clearly all the press that this CentOS issue has gotten has made people think about this topic more. If these users are uncomfortable with this then they should move to a product where they feel has a strong future. That decision about knowing about the future is where the art is. -Connie Sieh Keith Serguei Mokhov http://www.cs.concordia.ca/~mokhov http://marf.sf.net | http://sf.net/projects/marf
Re: CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Connie Siehcs...@fnal.gov wrote: On Thu, 30 Jul 2009, Serguei Mokhov wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Keith Lofstromkei...@kl-ic.com wro= te: This affects us. =A0Imagine that all the CentOS users show up to us= Scientific Linux. =A0Imagine all their maintainers and developers s= how up, too. This is a good thing for SL, isn't it? Increase the user base, I am sure Troy and Connie could use some help from the developers, and then lead to the world dominance of SL :) This affects us positively, IMHO, though perhaps there will be less competition. I think CentOS is good for the community. And I never considered it competition. We always welcome help. I do not think CentOS is going away. We have talked to them in the past about us helping them to make CentOS 6 and then use CentOS 6 as a basis for SL. No word on if this will or will not happen. I think such a collaboration is a very good idea, actually, if it happens. CentOS and SL would be more interoperable this way. BTW, I am not against CentOS in anyways but precisely for the reasons below at our Uni we decided to move to SL instead. There may be some users who do not like the uncertainly of the future of a open source project. Clearly all the press that this CentOS issue has gotten has made people think about this topic more. If these users are uncomfortable with this then they should move to a product where they feel has a strong future. That decision about knowing about the future is where the art is. This is the exactly the reason at Concordia University, Faculty of Engineering and CS we are moving to SL for our teaching and research machines and the supporting servers (to be over ~1100 machines). :) And we appreciate your efforts and dedication to the project and its support! Thanks, -s
Fwd: CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
This affects us. Imagine that all the CentOS users show up to use Scientific Linux. Imagine all their maintainers and developers show up, too. Keith forwarded message --- (http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/07/30/130249/CentOS-Project-Administrator-Goes-AWOL): Lance Davis, the main project administrator for CentOS, a popular free 'rebuild' of Red Hat's Enterprise Linux, appears to have gone AWOL. In an open letter* from his fellow CentOS developers, they describe the precarious situation the project has been put in. There have been attempts to contact him for some time now, as he's the sole administrator for the centos.org domain, the IRC channels, and apparently, CentOS funds. One can only hope that Lance gets in contact with them and gets things sorted out. * Open Letter (http://www.centos.org/): July 30, 2009 04:39 UTC This is an Open Letter to Lance Davis from fellow CentOS Developers It is regrettable that we are forced to send this letter but we are left with no other options. For some time now we have been attempting to resolve these problems: You seem to have crawled into a hole ... and this is not acceptable. You have long promised a statement of CentOS project funds; to this date this has not appeared. You hold sole control of the centos.org domain with no deputy; this is not proper. You have, it seems, sole 'Founders' rights in the IRC channels with no deputy ; this is not proper. When I (Russ) try to call the phone numbers for UK Linux, and for you individually, I get a telco intercept 'Lines are temporarily busy' for the last two weeks. Finally yesterday, a voicemail in your voice picked up, and I left a message urgently requesting a reply. Karanbir also reports calling and leaving messages without your reply. Please do not kill CentOS through your fear of shared management of the project. Clearly the project dies if all the developers walk away. Please contact me, or any other signer of this letter at once, to arrange for the required information to keep the project alive at the 'centos.org' domain. Sincerely, Russ Herrold Ralph Angenendt Karanbir Singh Jim Perrin Donavan Nelson Tim Verhoeven Tru Huynh Johnny Hughes -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists - end forwarded message --- -- Keith Lofstrom kei...@keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- Your Ideas in Silicon Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs
Re: Fwd: CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
Hi, This affects us. Imagine that all the CentOS users show up to use Scientific Linux. Imagine all their maintainers and developers show up, too. I personally don't think that's a bad thing especially if it allows SL to have the ability to open more of it's infrastructure to 3rd party extensions like the CentOS team have done for CentOS Plus etc. For example, EL5 is stuck in the php 5.1.6 and MySQL 5.0.45 days and when you want applications which relay on at least php 5.2.x (and so many do) then you have to go to 3rd party repo's which may be incompatible with other repo's used in the environment. It's really like opening a can of worms and IMHO CentOS got the right mix by having their own team of developers providing those packages which TUV doesn't. In case there's a question, I use SL exclusively for over 30 Linux servers, never used CentOS. Regards, Michael. Keith forwarded message --- (http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/07/30/130249/CentOS-Project- Administrator-Goes-AWOL): Lance Davis, the main project administrator for CentOS, a popular free 'rebuild' of Red Hat's Enterprise Linux, appears to have gone AWOL. In an open letter* from his fellow CentOS developers, they describe the precarious situation the project has been put in. There have been attempts to contact him for some time now, as he's the sole administrator for the centos.org domain, the IRC channels, and apparently, CentOS funds. One can only hope that Lance gets in contact with them and gets things sorted out. * Open Letter (http://www.centos.org/): July 30, 2009 04:39 UTC This is an Open Letter to Lance Davis from fellow CentOS Developers It is regrettable that we are forced to send this letter but we are left with no other options. For some time now we have been attempting to resolve these problems: You seem to have crawled into a hole ... and this is not acceptable. You have long promised a statement of CentOS project funds; to this date this has not appeared. You hold sole control of the centos.org domain with no deputy; this is not proper. You have, it seems, sole 'Founders' rights in the IRC channels with no deputy ; this is not proper. When I (Russ) try to call the phone numbers for UK Linux, and for you individually, I get a telco intercept 'Lines are temporarily busy' for the last two weeks. Finally yesterday, a voicemail in your voice picked up, and I left a message urgently requesting a reply. Karanbir also reports calling and leaving messages without your reply. Please do not kill CentOS through your fear of shared management of the project. Clearly the project dies if all the developers walk away. Please contact me, or any other signer of this letter at once, to arrange for the required information to keep the project alive at the 'centos.org' domain. Sincerely, Russ Herrold Ralph Angenendt Karanbir Singh Jim Perrin Donavan Nelson Tim Verhoeven Tru Huynh Johnny Hughes -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists - end forwarded message --- -- Keith Lofstrom kei...@keithl.com Voice (503)-520- 1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- Your Ideas in Silicon Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs --- End of Original Message ---
Re: CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Keith Lofstromkei...@kl-ic.com wrote: This affects us. Imagine that all the CentOS users show up to use Scientific Linux. Imagine all their maintainers and developers show up, too. This is a good thing for SL, isn't it? Increase the user base, I am sure Troy and Connie could use some help from the developers, and then lead to the world dominance of SL :) This affects us positively, IMHO, though perhaps there will be less competition. Keith Serguei Mokhov http://www.cs.concordia.ca/~mokhov http://marf.sf.net | http://sf.net/projects/marf
Re: CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
Serguei Mokhov wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Keith Lofstromkei...@kl-ic.com wrote: This affects us. Imagine that all the CentOS users show up to use Scientific Linux. Imagine all their maintainers and developers show up, too. This is a good thing for SL, isn't it? Increase the user base, I am sure Troy and Connie could use some help from the developers, and then lead to the world dominance of SL :) This affects us positively, IMHO, though perhaps there will be less competition. The CentOS Project isn't going anywhere. There is simply an issue whereby the person who controls the centos.org domain is being non-responsive and the matter is being dealt with openly. Worst case scenario, the project would have to flip to an alternative domain but the developers have made it clear it will continue and that full contingency plans are in place should they be needed. If there were only one rebuild project then there would be a single point of failure should that project then cease. Besides, diversity and competition are a good thing - each becomes stronger for it. Collaboration and/or shared knowledge in common areas are also attractive. Phil A CentOS and SL user
Re: CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 6:28 PM, Serguei Mokhovserg...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Keith Lofstromkei...@kl-ic.com wrote: This affects us. Imagine that all the CentOS users show up to use Scientific Linux. Imagine all their maintainers and developers show up, too. This is a good thing for SL, isn't it? Increase the user base, I am sure Troy and Connie could use some help from the developers, and then lead to the world dominance of SL :) This affects us positively, IMHO, though perhaps there will be less competition. [cough] As someone who knows a bit of both worlds, I can offer to write a *CentOS* wiki article entitled HowTo Migrate from CentOS to SL. [/cough] Akemi - who now has to hide from all CentOS devs.
