Issue with EPEL repo

[Yasha Karant]

I know from past experience that ElRepo persons do read and reply to 
this list.  Does any EPEL person?  If not, does anyone know how to 
contact the EPEL maintainers?


There is an issue with the EPEL MATE install method.

Yasha Karant

Re: Issue with EPEL repo

[Alan Bartlett]

On 5 April 2016 at 15:57, Yasha Karant  wrote:
> I know from past experience that ElRepo persons do read and reply to this
> list.  Does any EPEL person?  If not, does anyone know how to contact the
> EPEL maintainers?
>
> There is an issue with the EPEL MATE install method.
>
> Yasha Karant

Let me correct your above two blunders:

(1) The ELRepo Project is not EPEL.
(2) I, my fellow founders and administrators of the ELRepo Project do
read this mailing list and do respond, when appropriate.

Alan.

Re: Issue with EPEL repo

[Dave Howorth]

On 2016-04-05 16:40, Alan Bartlett wrote:

On 5 April 2016 at 15:57, Yasha Karant  wrote:

I know from past experience that ElRepo persons do read and reply to this
list.  Does any EPEL person?  If not, does anyone know how to contact the
EPEL maintainers?

There is an issue with the EPEL MATE install method.

Yasha Karant


Let me correct your above two blunders:

(1) The ELRepo Project is not EPEL.
(2) I, my fellow founders and administrators of the ELRepo Project do
read this mailing list and do respond, when appropriate.


I don't understand why you accuse Yasha of two blunders?

His original post makes it clear that he understands the difference 
between ElRepo and EPEL, so why do you think that is a blunder?


He says that ElRepo DO read the list, which you then confirm, so why is 
that a blunder?


I think you owe him an apology, unless I have seriously misunderstood 
something.



Alan.

Re: Issue with EPEL repo

[Akemi Yagi]

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 9:01 AM, Dave Howorth 
wrote:

> On 2016-04-05 16:40, Alan Bartlett wrote:
>
>> On 5 April 2016 at 15:57, Yasha Karant  wrote:
>>
>>> I know from past experience that ElRepo persons do read and reply to this
>>> list.  Does any EPEL person?  If not, does anyone know how to contact the
>>> EPEL maintainers?
>>>
>>> There is an issue with the EPEL MATE install method.
>>>
>>> Yasha Karant
>>>
>>
>> Let me correct your above two blunders:
>>
>> (1) The ELRepo Project is not EPEL.
>> (2) I, my fellow founders and administrators of the ELRepo Project do
>> read this mailing list and do respond, when appropriate.
>>
>
> I don't understand why you accuse Yasha of two blunders?
>
> His original post makes it clear that he understands the difference
> between ElRepo and EPEL, so why do you think that is a blunder?
>
> He says that ElRepo DO read the list, which you then confirm, so why is
> that a blunder?
>
> I think you owe him an apology, unless I have seriously misunderstood
> something.
>

OK ... I see that there was some misunderstanding ...

Let's make peace here, shall we?

Regarding contacting EPEL maintainers, I see the following description in
EPEL's FAQ:

"You can find help or discuss issues on the epel-devel mailing list or IRC
channel #epel on Freenode. Report issues against EPEL via bugzilla"
(
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/FAQ#Where_can_I_find_help_or_report_issues.3F
)

Just checked the epel-devel mailing list. It does not seem to be actively
used at this moment. So, I would suggest use of bugzilla.redhat.com is the
way to go.

Regarding ELRepo, while we (ELRepo team members) are reading this SL list,
it is best to use ELRepo's mailing list to address any issue or ask
questions ( http://lists.elrepo.org/mailman/listinfo/elrepo ) rather than
here. In fact, I encourage everyone who uses ELRepo's packages to subscribe
to the list.

Akemi

Re: Issue with EPEL repo

[Yasha Karant]

On 04/05/2016 09:37 AM, Akemi Yagi wrote:
On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 9:01 AM, Dave Howorth 
mailto:dhowo...@mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk>> wrote:


On 2016-04-05 16:40, Alan Bartlett wrote:

On 5 April 2016 at 15:57, Yasha Karant mailto:ykar...@csusb.edu>> wrote:

I know from past experience that ElRepo persons do read
and reply to this
list.  Does any EPEL person?  If not, does anyone know how
to contact the
EPEL maintainers?

There is an issue with the EPEL MATE install method.

Yasha Karant


Let me correct your above two blunders:

(1) The ELRepo Project is not EPEL.
(2) I, my fellow founders and administrators of the ELRepo
Project do
read this mailing list and do respond, when appropriate.


I don't understand why you accuse Yasha of two blunders?

His original post makes it clear that he understands the
difference between ElRepo and EPEL, so why do you think that is a
blunder?

He says that ElRepo DO read the list, which you then confirm, so
why is that a blunder?

I think you owe him an apology, unless I have seriously
misunderstood something.


OK ... I see that there was some misunderstanding ...

Let's make peace here, shall we?

Regarding contacting EPEL maintainers, I see the following description 
in EPEL's FAQ:


"You can find help or discuss issues on the epel-devel mailing list or 
IRC channel #epel on Freenode. Report issues against EPEL via bugzilla"
( 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/FAQ#Where_can_I_find_help_or_report_issues.3F 
)


Just checked the epel-devel mailing list. It does not seem to be 
actively used at this moment. So, I would suggest use of 
bugzilla.redhat.com  is the way to go.


Regarding ELRepo, while we (ELRepo team members) are reading this SL 
list, it is best to use ELRepo's mailing list to address any issue or 
ask questions ( http://lists.elrepo.org/mailman/listinfo/elrepo ) 
rather than here. In fact, I encourage everyone who uses ELRepo's 
packages to subscribe to the list.


Akemi
Although you are correct that you seriously did misunderstand what I 
posted, what you have posted confirms what I have observed after my 
posting on EPEL to the SL list:  contacting anyone who knows EPEL and 
getting a meaningful response is about the same as I experienced with 
SuSE support (non-existent except for SLES and then only to "large" 
"corporate" customers).  The comment I received from a person who gets 
the EPEL Red Hat Bugzilla "reports" was this:


I don't have much to do with MATE directly (I'm mostly a package sponsor for 
some of the folks more directly involved).

So, I'd recommend sticking relevant details in bugzilla

End quote.

Note that, unlike ELRepo folks with whom one can communicate via the SL list (persons who even are 
willing to identify themselves, and not "hide" behind some Bugzilla-like interface), EPEL 
seems much more unwilling to discuss matters.  Has an EPEL "maintainer" ever (recently) 
posted/replied to the SL liist?

I fully understand that the ELRepo folks are (presumably) volunteers, and thus may have 
little real free time to address such issues; hence, one should not pester them, 
particularly from typical enthusiast "users".  I suspect that EPEL persons in 
part may, as with CentOS, now be paid by Red Hat, but I do not know this for a fact.  I 
have had few issues with ELRepo packages, and those I or others have had
seem to be well addressed (not always solved -- sometimes ithe solution is to 
wait for a later updated release) by the ELRepo correspondents to this SL llist.

On this point, a question.  I have been told (but not verified as a fact) that 
the Ubuntu equivalent to the main SL repository contains (all?) packages that 
one must, for any EL family distro, find on the master (SL, CentOS, etc.) 
repository and then hunt ELRepo, EPEL, and for some items, NUX and others (in 
which case I only enable software sources such as NUX during the actual 
installation of an RPM
package that only is available in source or on  such a repository).  As I 
indicated in a previous post, I have no reason at the present time to switch to 
Ubuntu LTS (and definitely will not be going back to either
OpenSUSE or SLES); however, I am curious if the above claim is factual.  Such a 
"single" repository is much more convenient (and probably more consistent, 
without dependency conflicts) than rpmfind on the web, etc.

Yasha Karant

Yasha Karant

Re: Issue with EPEL repo

[Akemi Yagi]

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 3:34 PM, Yasha Karant  wrote:

> On 04/05/2016 09:37 AM, Akemi Yagi wrote:
>
>
> Let's make peace here, shall we?
>
> Akemi
>
> Although you are correct that you seriously did misunderstand what I
> posted, Yasha Karant
>

Yasha,

Not that it matters much, but I just wanted to clarify the misunderstanding
on your part ... I'm not the person who misunderstood what you posted. I am
only a commentator in this thread.

Akemi

Re: Issue with EPEL repo

[Yasha Karant]

On 04/05/2016 03:53 PM, Akemi Yagi wrote:
On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 3:34 PM, Yasha Karant > wrote:


On 04/05/2016 09:37 AM, Akemi Yagi wrote:


Let's make peace here, shall we?

Akemi

Although you are correct that you seriously did misunderstand what
I posted, Yasha Karant


Yasha,

Not that it matters much, but I just wanted to clarify the 
misunderstanding on your part ... I'm not the person who misunderstood 
what you posted. I am only a commentator in this thread.


Akemi


Sorry Akemi,

English no longer has a thou (singular) and a you (plural or a group).  
My intention only was the plural in that it evidently was misunderstood 
by an ELRepo "person" who seemed to be representing some generalized 
ELRepo view, but I never suggested it was you (singular).


As is clear, ELRepo "people" do post and provide assistance (not always 
solutions) on this SL llist; again, do any EPEL "people"?  I know that 
you are ELRepo (good work), not EPEL.  I also know how much time and 
effort can be involved in porting from source a package designed for one 
environment to another -- I have done this, as have some of the students 
in our research group, often a merry chase due to inconsistencies even 
when both the source and target environments are supposed to be 
conforming to the same "standards".


Yasha

Re: Issue with EPEL repo

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On 5 April 2016 at 08:57, Yasha Karant  wrote:
> I know from past experience that ElRepo persons do read and reply to this
> list.  Does any EPEL person?  If not, does anyone know how to contact the
> EPEL maintainers?
>
> There is an issue with the EPEL MATE install method.
>
> Yasha Karant

Hi, I am on the EPEL Steering Committee. What is the problem and how can I help?

-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.

Re: Issue with EPEL repo

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On 5 April 2016 at 16:34, Yasha Karant  wrote:
> On 04/05/2016 09:37 AM, Akemi Yagi wrote:
>
> On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 9:01 AM, Dave Howorth 
> wrote:
>>
>> On 2016-04-05 16:40, Alan Bartlett wrote:
>>>
>>> On 5 April 2016 at 15:57, Yasha Karant  wrote:

 I know from past experience that ElRepo persons do read and reply to
 this
 list.  Does any EPEL person?  If not, does anyone know how to contact
 the
 EPEL maintainers?

 There is an issue with the EPEL MATE install method.

 Yasha Karant
>>>
>>>
>>> Let me correct your above two blunders:
>>>
>>> (1) The ELRepo Project is not EPEL.
>>> (2) I, my fellow founders and administrators of the ELRepo Project do
>>> read this mailing list and do respond, when appropriate.
>>
>>
>> I don't understand why you accuse Yasha of two blunders?
>>
>> His original post makes it clear that he understands the difference
>> between ElRepo and EPEL, so why do you think that is a blunder?
>>
>> He says that ElRepo DO read the list, which you then confirm, so why is
>> that a blunder?
>>
>> I think you owe him an apology, unless I have seriously misunderstood
>> something.
>
>
> OK ... I see that there was some misunderstanding ...
>
> Let's make peace here, shall we?
>
> Regarding contacting EPEL maintainers, I see the following description in
> EPEL's FAQ:
>
> "You can find help or discuss issues on the epel-devel mailing list or IRC
> channel #epel on Freenode. Report issues against EPEL via bugzilla"
> (
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/FAQ#Where_can_I_find_help_or_report_issues.3F
> )
>
> Just checked the epel-devel mailing list. It does not seem to be actively
> used at this moment. So, I would suggest use of bugzilla.redhat.com is the
> way to go.
>
> Regarding ELRepo, while we (ELRepo team members) are reading this SL list,
> it is best to use ELRepo's mailing list to address any issue or ask
> questions ( http://lists.elrepo.org/mailman/listinfo/elrepo ) rather than
> here. In fact, I encourage everyone who uses ELRepo's packages to subscribe
> to the list.
>
> Akemi
>
> Although you are correct that you seriously did misunderstand what I posted,
> what you have posted confirms what I have observed after my posting on EPEL
> to the SL list:  contacting anyone who knows EPEL and getting a meaningful
> response is about the same as I experienced with SuSE support (non-existent
> except for SLES and then only to "large" "corporate" customers).  The
> comment I received from a person who gets the EPEL Red Hat Bugzilla
> "reports" was this:
>
> I don't have much to do with MATE directly (I'm mostly a package sponsor for
> some of the folks more directly involved).
>
> So, I'd recommend sticking relevant details in bugzilla
>
> End quote.
>
> Note that, unlike ELRepo folks with whom one can communicate via the SL list
> (persons who even are willing to identify themselves, and not "hide" behind
> some Bugzilla-like interface), EPEL seems much more unwilling to discuss
> matters.  Has an EPEL "maintainer" ever (recently) posted/replied to the SL
> liist?
>

Hi. That would be me.


> I fully understand that the ELRepo folks are (presumably) volunteers, and
> thus may have little real free time to address such issues; hence, one
> should not pester them, particularly from typical enthusiast "users".  I
> suspect that EPEL persons in part may, as with CentOS, now be paid by Red
> Hat, but I do not know this for a fact.  I have had few issues with ELRepo

I am paid by Red Hat, but not to work on EPEL. That means I work on
EPEL after I have done my regular work. Think of it like reading
papers after your office hours. I do the EPEL work because it is
important to me and others, but if I have to do some other work
(office hours, teaching classes, doing particular research) that takes
precedence.

> packages, and those I or others have had
> seem to be well addressed (not always solved -- sometimes ithe solution is
> to wait for a later updated release) by the ELRepo correspondents to this SL
> llist.
>
> On this point, a question.  I have been told (but not verified as a fact)
> that the Ubuntu equivalent to the main SL repository contains (all?)
> packages that one must, for any EL family distro, find on the master (SL,
> CentOS, etc.) repository and then hunt ELRepo, EPEL, and for some items, NUX
> and others (in which case I only enable software sources such as NUX during
> the actual installation of an RPM
> package that only is available in source or on  such a repository).  As I
> indicated in a previous post, I have no reason at the present time to switch
> to Ubuntu LTS (and definitely will not be going back to either
> OpenSUSE or SLES); however, I am curious if the above claim is factual.
> Such a "single" repository is much more convenient (and probably more
> consistent, without dependency conflicts) than rpmfind on the web, etc.
>

Possibly. And maybe Ubuntu will work better for you. A distribution is
like a sub-set of a fi

Re: Issue with EPEL repo

[Lamar Owen]

On 04/05/2016 06:34 PM, Yasha Karant wrote:
Note that, unlike ELRepo folks with whom one can communicate via the 
SL list (persons who even are willing to identify themselves, and not 
"hide" behind some Bugzilla-like interface), EPEL seems much more 
unwilling to discuss matters. Has an EPEL "maintainer" ever (recently) 
posted/replied to the SL liist? I fully understand that the ELRepo 
folks are (presumably) volunteers, and thus may have little real free 
time to address such issues; hence, one should not pester them, 
particularly from typical enthusiast "users". I suspect that EPEL 
persons in part may, as with CentOS, now be paid by Red Hat, but I do 
not know this for a fact. ...


EPEL is essentially Fedora on a project level; it's basically 'the 
Fedora packages that can be packaged for various RHEL-derived 
distributions packaged for those distributions.'  It's also typically 
(but not always) the Fedora package maintainer maintaining the EPEL 
package, and it is most useful to contact that person directly.  
Bugzilla is the preferred means of contact, since it tracks the issues 
in a far more accessible (to the packager) way; no one is 'hiding' 
behind BZ, it's just the preferred way to get issues reported, tracked, 
and addressed.  Discussion of the base packages would likely be on the 
fedora-devel list, since EPEL is something of a Fedora thing.  Smooge, 
please feel free to correct my inaccuracies there, since you are 
connected directly to that and I am not.



On this point, a question.  I have been told (but not verified as a fact) that 
the Ubuntu equivalent to the main SL repository contains (all?) packages that 
one must, for any EL family distro, find on the master (SL, CentOS, etc.) 
repository and then hunt ELRepo, EPEL, and for some items, NUX and others (in 
which case I only enable software sources such as NUX during the actual 
installation of an RPM
package that only is available in source or on  such a repository).



This is partially true.  The Ubuntu repos, thanks to the Debian 
parentage and repos, are vast and include a lot of packages. However, 
even in Ubuntu-land one must eventually use a personal repo, known as a 
'PPA.'  PPAs are where things get hairy really quickly with Ubuntu since 
the quality of dependencies and the resolution of same varies wildly 
between different PPAs.  This is one of the basic differences between 
the Ubuntu and the RHEL-derived (and related, such as Fedora) 
ecosystems.  There are many more.


Off-topic note on something else you said:  US Southeast dialect does 
indeed differentiate between second person singular personal pronouns 
and second person plural personal pronouns.  Since 'thou' (while very 
correct and still used in certain theological and formal circles) is 
fallen from common use, the US Southeast dialect generally always 
addresses a singular second person as 'you' and plural second persons as 
y'all or you'n's (that last one is most commonly pronounced as the 
single syllable 'yunz' and is common in the Appalachian highlands; it is 
a contraction of 'you ones,' thus the 'nz' ending.  Y'all is of course 
the contraction of 'you all' and is more of a Piedmont and coastal 
thing).  The dual number use of 'you' is more confusing than helpful, 
when differentiating between singular and plural in the second person 
really is required, and the US Southeast dialect resolves the ambiguity 
in a creative, distinctive, and perhaps even a 'charming' way.

Re: Issue with EPEL repo

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On 6 April 2016 at 10:09, Lamar Owen  wrote:
> On 04/05/2016 06:34 PM, Yasha Karant wrote:
>>
>> Note that, unlike ELRepo folks with whom one can communicate via the SL
>> list (persons who even are willing to identify themselves, and not "hide"
>> behind some Bugzilla-like interface), EPEL seems much more unwilling to
>> discuss matters. Has an EPEL "maintainer" ever (recently) posted/replied to
>> the SL liist? I fully understand that the ELRepo folks are (presumably)
>> volunteers, and thus may have little real free time to address such issues;
>> hence, one should not pester them, particularly from typical enthusiast
>> "users". I suspect that EPEL persons in part may, as with CentOS, now be
>> paid by Red Hat, but I do not know this for a fact. ...
>
>
> EPEL is essentially Fedora on a project level; it's basically 'the Fedora
> packages that can be packaged for various RHEL-derived distributions
> packaged for those distributions.'  It's also typically (but not always) the
> Fedora package maintainer maintaining the EPEL package, and it is most
> useful to contact that person directly.  Bugzilla is the preferred means of
> contact, since it tracks the issues in a far more accessible (to the
> packager) way; no one is 'hiding' behind BZ, it's just the preferred way to
> get issues reported, tracked, and addressed.  Discussion of the base
> packages would likely be on the fedora-devel list, since EPEL is something
> of a Fedora thing.  Smooge, please feel free to correct my inaccuracies
> there, since you are connected directly to that and I am not.
>

What you state is mostly correct and probably how most people outside
of Fedora see how things working happen. The only difference would be
that discussion of the EPEL packages and group lists should be at
least cc'd on the epel-devel list as the people who can fix things are
on that list.



>> On this point, a question.  I have been told (but not verified as a fact)
>> that the Ubuntu equivalent to the main SL repository contains (all?)
>> packages that one must, for any EL family distro, find on the master (SL,
>> CentOS, etc.) repository and then hunt ELRepo, EPEL, and for some items, NUX
>> and others (in which case I only enable software sources such as NUX during
>> the actual installation of an RPM
>> package that only is available in source or on  such a repository).
>>
>
> This is partially true.  The Ubuntu repos, thanks to the Debian parentage
> and repos, are vast and include a lot of packages. However, even in
> Ubuntu-land one must eventually use a personal repo, known as a 'PPA.'  PPAs
> are where things get hairy really quickly with Ubuntu since the quality of
> dependencies and the resolution of same varies wildly between different
> PPAs.  This is one of the basic differences between the Ubuntu and the
> RHEL-derived (and related, such as Fedora) ecosystems.  There are many more.
>

Correct. The Fedora/EPEL version of this are called COPR's which can
be added to make your system better enabled.




-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.

Re: Issue with EPEL repo

[Nico Kadel-Garcia]

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 12:09 PM, Lamar Owen  wrote:
> On 04/05/2016 06:34 PM, Yasha Karant wrote:
>>
>> Note that, unlike ELRepo folks with whom one can communicate via the SL
>> list (persons who even are willing to identify themselves, and not "hide"
>> behind some Bugzilla-like interface), EPEL seems much more unwilling to
>> discuss matters. Has an EPEL "maintainer" ever (recently) posted/replied to
>> the SL liist? I fully understand that the ELRepo folks are (presumably)
>> volunteers, and thus may have little real free time to address such issues;
>> hence, one should not pester them, particularly from typical enthusiast
>> "users". I suspect that EPEL persons in part may, as with CentOS, now be
>> paid by Red Hat, but I do not know this for a fact. ...
>
>
> EPEL is essentially Fedora on a project level; it's basically 'the Fedora
> packages that can be packaged for various RHEL-derived distributions
> packaged for those distributions.'  It's also typically (but not always) the
> Fedora package maintainer maintaining the EPEL package, and it is most
> useful to contact that person directly.  Bugzilla is the preferred means of
> contact, since it tracks the issues in a far more accessible (to the
> packager) way; no one is 'hiding' behind BZ, it's just the preferred way to
> get issues reported, tracked, and addressed.  Discussion of the base
> packages would likely be on the fedora-devel list, since EPEL is something
> of a Fedora thing.  Smooge, please feel free to correct my inaccuracies
> there, since you are connected directly to that and I am not.

There are some critical differences. EPEL never, never, never provides
a direct replacement or update to a base RHEL, and thus to a base
Scientific Linux package. I publish a *lot* of backported versions of
SRPM's to enable components for producton RHEL, CentOS, and Scientific
Linux environments. They do publish some parallel versions of packages
with alternative but compatible package names, and these can be
useful. But burden of backporting components that would require
updating system libraries winds up in the hand of individual
contributors, especially since RPMforge has effectively become
moribund. Many of them have been invaluable: "git" for RHEL or
Scientific Linux 5, for example, has been my friend.