[scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
http://www.movieline.com/2009/07/disneys-the-princess-and-the-frog-directors-address-charges-of-racism.php Comic-Con 09 EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns Written by Seth Abramovitch | 24 Jul 2009 Disneys The Princess and the Frog marks the studios long-overdue return to hand-drawn animation, and those hands belong to Ron Clements and John Musker - two animation veterans responsible for later-era classics like The Little Mermaid and Aladdin. From the beginning, Disney proudly trumpeted that Frog would feature their first African-American princess with Tiana, a gesture that would go a small way towards righting the wrongs of all the yarn-spinning uncles, jive-talking crows and Neverland savages that came before her. But as scenes trickled out, there were murmurs of concern. Princess Tiana would be paired with Prince Naveen - a royal of seemingly South American lineage, voiced by Brazilian-born actor Bruno Campos - raising eyebrows and ire among a segment of the African-American blogosphere. Then we were introduced to Mama Odie - a blind, swamp-dwelling voodoo witch doctor. Dated caricature? Lovable sidekick? Both? Movieline had an opportunity to talk to Clements and Musker today at a series of Disney Animation roundtable interviews at Comic-Con. Both are chipper, unassuming men with a cute tendency of finishing each others sentences. Telling us the film is close to finished - just digital coloring is all thats left in the animation process - we then broached concerns over its minority representations. Here is what they said: MOVIELINE: Have you heard any of the race-related criticisms about The Princess and the Frog, that Disneys first African-American princess has not been paired with an African-American prince, and that Mama Odie comes across like a stereotype? How do you react to that? RON CLEMENTS: The first thing is that all the criticism of the movie has been from people who have not seen the movie, who dont know the context of the movie, who dont know the story. From the very beginning, when the project was first announced, there have been these issues. From the very beginning I think we wanted to be certainly as sensitive as possible with what we were doing. I mean, really early on it was clear that this was a major, major thing. So we did a lot of consulting, and our co-writer on the film Rob Edwards was African-American, and we talked to many African-Americans. We took them through the story, we showed them things, and weve since previewed the movie. The reaction weve gotten from everyone whos actually seen the movie, and knows the story, has been very, very positive, and thats been very encouraging to us. Weve gotten notes and weve addressed some things, but I say overall people who know the context of the movie - JOHN MUSKER: And that includes multiracial audiences - African-American and otherwise. And in fact the numbers coming out of our preview are high across the board - it didnt matter. MOVIELINE: You have Oprah Winfreys stamp of approval. RC: Oprahs a character, and she does a great job. Terrence Howard did a great job. So its been kind of tough for us, and the Internet is at a place where it wasnt necessarily a few years ago. Speculation tends to run rampant, but the only thing I can say is that if people have concerns, just see the movie and I think a lot of the concerns will go away. The issue with the Prince, the Prince is not African-American, and hes not white. Hes played by a Brazilian actor and hes definitely a person of color. Again, its the context of the movie, and the context of the story - thats very important in terms of how the story works, and how things sort of work out When people will see the movie, the reasons for things will be more clear. Not that there wont be issues. Im sure many people will have issues, but we feel good about the movie, and I think we feel that it works for all audiences the way we hoped it would. Because certainly you dont want to do this kind of movie and have it divide people. You want to bring people together. Thats always been the intention.
Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
They can explain all they want, but the truth of this is the "Hitch" effect: H'wood refusing to back a big romance with a man and woman of clearly African-American roots. Will Smith himself said the folks behind "Hitch" didn't want a black female lead, as they feared it wouldn't draw whites. A white female lead--not a goal in my book to be sought--was of course right out. So it is here. It makes no sense that for the first African-American female lead, the male is not also African-American--or at least "African". Why couldn't he be a rich brother from New Orleans? Why can't his family be wealthy? Why can't he be an African prince of purely African heritage? All this talk of diversity is interesting, as it only comes up when blacks are involved. i don't recall Snow White, Cinderalla, Belle, Mu Lan, or any of the other Disney heroines being paired with a guy of an obviously different racial background. Oh: let me correct myself. Disney did pair one lady with a guy from another race. It was the story of Pochahantas and her love for a European. It troubles me, not because I'm against diversity, multi-culturalism, or marriages between people of different ethnicities. It troubles me simply because once again, when other cultures--especially whites--are allowed to love their own on screen, we're being told that black-on-black love just won't play at the cinemaplex. And saddest of all is that we are so happy just ot have *one* black person on screen, we'll just take this as a sign of progress. I got into a long debate with a black female friend on this, and her summary statement was, "You're right, it's unfortunate both leads aren't African Amerians. But you have to be realistic, keith, this is a good first step, and we can't force Disney to meet our needs." Besides, she said, her young daughter is so happy to have a princess look like her on screen. I asked, how were her two sons feeling about the movie, and she said, they were disappointed and confused the male lead wasn't just like them, but better something than nothing. sigh... - Original Message - From: "brent wodehouse" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 2:09:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns http://www.movieline.com/2009/07/disneys-the-princess-and-the-frog-directors-address-charges-of-racism.php Comic-Con 09 EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns Written by Seth Abramovitch | 24 Jul 2009 Disney’s The Princess and the Frog marks the studio’s long-overdue return to hand-drawn animation, and those hands belong to Ron Clements and John Musker - two animation veterans responsible for later-era classics like The Little Mermaid and Aladdin. From the beginning, Disney proudly trumpeted that Frog would feature their first African-American princess with Tiana, a gesture that would go a small way towards righting the wrongs of all the yarn-spinning uncles, jive-talking crows and Neverland savages that came before her. But as scenes trickled out, there were murmurs of concern. Princess Tiana would be paired with Prince Naveen - a royal of seemingly South American lineage, voiced by Brazilian-born actor Bruno Campos - raising eyebrows and ire among a segment of the African-American blogosphere. Then we were introduced to Mama Odie - a blind, swamp-dwelling voodoo witch doctor. Dated caricature? Lovable sidekick? Both? Movieline had an opportunity to talk to Clements and Musker today at a series of Disney Animation roundtable interviews at Comic-Con. Both are chipper, unassuming men with a cute tendency of finishing each other’s sentences. Telling us the film is close to finished - just digital coloring is all that’s left in the animation process - we then broached concerns over its minority representations. Here is what they said: MOVIELINE: Have you heard any of the race-related criticisms about The Princess and the Frog, that Disney’s first African-American princess has not been paired with an African-American prince, and that Mama Odie comes across like a stereotype? How do you react to that? RON CLEMENTS: The first thing is that all the criticism of the movie has been from people who have not seen the movie, who don’t know the context of the movie, who don’t know the story. From the very beginning, when the project was first announced, there have been these issues. From the very beginning I think we wanted to be certainly as sensitive as possible with what we were doing. I mean, really early on it was clear that this was a major, major thing. So we did a lot of consulting, and our co-writer on the film Rob Edwards was African-American, and we talked to man
Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
so Keith, when do we devote a website 2 it and raise as much hell as we can? Fate. --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Keith Johnson wrote: From: Keith Johnson Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 2:04 AM They can explain all they want, but the truth of this is the "Hitch" effect: H'wood refusing to back a big romance with a man and woman of clearly African-American roots. Will Smith himself said the folks behind "Hitch" didn't want a black female lead, as they feared it wouldn't draw whites. A white female lead--not a goal in my book to be sought--was of course right out. So it is here. It makes no sense that for the first African-American female lead, the male is not also African-American- -or at least "African". Why couldn't he be a rich brother from New Orleans? Why can't his family be wealthy? Why can't he be an African prince of purely African heritage? All this talk of diversity is interesting, as it only comes up when blacks are involved. i don't recall Snow White, Cinderalla, Belle, Mu Lan, or any of the other Disney heroines being paired with a guy of an obviously different racial background. Oh: let me correct myself. Disney did pair one lady with a guy from another race. It was the story of Pochahantas and her love for a European. It troubles me, not because I'm against diversity, multi-culturalism, or marriages between people of different ethnicities. It troubles me simply because once again, when other cultures--especiall y whites--are allowed to love their own on screen, we're being told that black-on-black love just won't play at the cinemaplex. And saddest of all is that we are so happy just ot have *one* black person on screen, we'll just take this as a sign of progress. I got into a long debate with a black female friend on this, and her summary statement was, "You're right, it's unfortunate both leads aren't African Amerians. But you have to be realistic, keith, this is a good first step, and we can't force Disney to meet our needs." Besides, she said, her young daughter is so happy to have a princess look like her on screen. I asked, how were her two sons feeling about the movie, and she said, they were disappointed and confused the male lead wasn't just like them, but better something than nothing. sigh... - Original Message - From: "brent wodehouse" To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 2:09:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns http://www.movielin e.com/2009/ 07/disneys- the-princess- and-the-frog- directors- address-charges- of-racism. php Comic-Con 09 EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns Written by Seth Abramovitch | 24 Jul 2009 Disney’s The Princess and the Frog marks the studio’s long-overdue return to hand-drawn animation, and those hands belong to Ron Clements and John Musker - two animation veterans responsible for later-era classics like The Little Mermaid and Aladdin. From the beginning, Disney proudly trumpeted that Frog would feature their first African-American princess with Tiana, a gesture that would go a small way towards righting the wrongs of all the yarn-spinning uncles, jive-talking crows and Neverland savages that came before her. But as scenes trickled out, there were murmurs of concern. Princess Tiana would be paired with Prince Naveen - a royal of seemingly South American lineage, voiced by Brazilian-born actor Bruno Campos - raising eyebrows and ire among a segment of the African-American blogosphere. Then we were introduced to Mama Odie - a blind, swamp-dwelling voodoo witch doctor. Dated caricature? Lovable sidekick? Both? Movieline had an opportunity to talk to Clements and Musker today at a series of Disney Animation roundtable interviews at Comic-Con. Both are chipper, unassuming men with a cute tendency of finishing each other’s sentences. Telling us the film is close to finished - just digital coloring is all that’s left in the animation process - we then broached concerns over its minority representations. Here is what they said: MOVIELINE: Have you heard any of the race-related criticisms about The Princess and the Frog, that Disney’s first African-American princess has not been paired with an African-American prince, and that Mama Odie comes across like a stereotype? How do you react to that? RON CLEMENTS: The first thing is that all the criticism of the movie has been from people who have not seen the movie, who don’t know the context of the movie, who don’t know the story. From the very beginning, when the project was first announced, there have been the
Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
ha-ha! - Original Message - From: "Augustus Augustus" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 11:11:56 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns so Keith, when do we devote a website 2 it and raise as much hell as we can? Fate. --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Keith Johnson wrote: From: Keith Johnson Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 2:04 AM They can explain all they want, but the truth of this is the "Hitch" effect: H'wood refusing to back a big romance with a man and woman of clearly African-American roots. Will Smith himself said the folks behind "Hitch" didn't want a black female lead, as they feared it wouldn't draw whites. A white female lead--not a goal in my book to be sought--was of course right out. So it is here. It makes no sense that for the first African-American female lead, the male is not also African-American- -or at least "African". Why couldn't he be a rich brother from New Orleans? Why can't his family be wealthy? Why can't he be an African prince of purely African heritage? All this talk of diversity is interesting, as it only comes up when blacks are involved. i don't recall Snow White, Cinderalla, Belle, Mu Lan, or any of the other Disney heroines being paired with a guy of an obviously different racial background. Oh: let me correct myself. Disney did pair one lady with a guy from another race. It was the story of Pochahantas and her love for a European. It troubles me, not because I'm against diversity, multi-culturalism, or marriages between people of different ethnicities. It troubles me simply because once again, when other cultures--especiall y whites--are allowed to love their own on screen, we're being told that black-on-black love just won't play at the cinemaplex. And saddest of all is that we are so happy just ot have *one* black person on screen, we'll just take this as a sign of progress. I got into a long debate with a black female friend on this, and her summary statement was, "You're right, it's unfortunate both leads aren't African Amerians. But you have to be realistic, keith, this is a good first step, and we can't force Disney to meet our needs." Besides, she said, her young daughter is so happy to have a princess look like her on screen. I asked, how were her two sons feeling about the movie, and she said, they were disappointed and confused the male lead wasn't just like them, but better something than nothing. sigh... - Original Message - From: "brent wodehouse" To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 2:09:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns http://www.movielin e.com/2009/ 07/disneys- the-princess- and-the-frog- directors- address-charges- of-racism. php Comic-Con 09 EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns Written by Seth Abramovitch | 24 Jul 2009 Disney’s The Princess and the Frog marks the studio’s long-overdue return to hand-drawn animation, and those hands belong to Ron Clements and John Musker - two animation veterans responsible for later-era classics like The Little Mermaid and Aladdin. From the beginning, Disney proudly trumpeted that Frog would feature their first African-American princess with Tiana, a gesture that would go a small way towards righting the wrongs of all the yarn-spinning uncles, jive-talking crows and Neverland savages that came before her. But as scenes trickled out, there were murmurs of concern. Princess Tiana would be paired with Prince Naveen - a royal of seemingly South American lineage, voiced by Brazilian-born actor Bruno Campos - raising eyebrows and ire among a segment of the African-American blogosphere. Then we were introduced to Mama Odie - a blind, swamp-dwelling voodoo witch doctor. Dated caricature? Lovable sidekick? Both? Movieline had an opportunity to talk to Clements and Musker today at a series of Disney Animation roundtable interviews at Comic-Con. Both are chipper, unassuming men with a cute tendency of finishing each other’s sentences. Telling us the film is close to finished - just digital coloring is all that’s left in the animation process - we then broached concerns over its minority representations. Here is what they said: MOVIELINE: Have you heard any of the race-related criticisms about The Princess and the Frog, that Disney’s first African-American princess has not been paired with an African-American prince, and that M
Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
Keith, Love the comments on the subject. As I was reading your post I was itching to respond. By the end I just have to clap and give you a pat on the back saying.its ok man. Here is another perspective. It is altruistic to think that an all black romantic cast will play to all audiences. Black movies consist of the following: 'Comin up' stories/Hood to Good Black Love mixed with comedy (This excludes Spike Lee movies of course) So creating a movie with two black leads clearly fits within this paradigm, thus seemingly excluding white audiences. Be honest.most white audiences see an all black or partly black cast and they think either hood movie or a tyler perry flick. The transition to truly racially fluid entertainment has to be gradual. The key demographic, just by numbers alone has been all white and is transitioning to a blended look. Not only should we be happy that there is a black princess but we should rejoice. This means that the math and the money was right enough to make it happen...translation- Executives with big bucks accept that black characters have universal appeal and can be human..not just black. This is progressRome was not built overnight. c w m On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Keith Johnson wrote: > > > They can explain all they want, but the truth of this is the "Hitch" > effect: H'wood refusing to back a big romance with a man and woman of > clearly African-American roots. Will Smith himself said the folks behind > "Hitch" didn't want a black female lead, as they feared it wouldn't draw > whites. A white female lead--not a goal in my book to be sought--was of > course right out. > > So it is here. It makes no sense that for the first African-American female > lead, the male is not also African-American--or at least "African". Why > couldn't he be a rich brother from New Orleans? Why can't his family be > wealthy? Why can't he be an African prince of purely African heritage? All > this talk of diversity is interesting, as it only comes up when blacks are > involved. i don't recall Snow White, Cinderalla, Belle, Mu Lan, or any of > the other Disney heroines being paired with a guy of an obviously different > racial background. Oh: let me correct myself. Disney did pair one lady with > a guy from another race. It was the story of Pochahantas and her love for a > European. > > It troubles me, not because I'm against diversity, multi-culturalism, or > marriages between people of different ethnicities. It troubles me simply > because once again, when other cultures--especially whites--are allowed to > love their own on screen, we're being told that black-on-black love just > won't play at the cinemaplex. And saddest of all is that we are so happy > just ot have *one* black person on screen, we'll just take this as a sign of > progress. I got into a long debate with a black female friend on this, and > her summary statement was, "You're right, it's unfortunate both leads aren't > African Amerians. But you have to be realistic, keith, this is a good first > step, and we can't force Disney to meet our needs." Besides, she said, her > young daughter is so happy to have a princess look like her on screen. > > I asked, how were her two sons feeling about the movie, and she said, they > were disappointed and confused the male lead wasn't just like them, but > better something than nothing. > > sigh... > > ----- Original Message - > From: "brent wodehouse" > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 2:09:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog > Directors Address Racial Concerns > > > > > http://www.movieline.com/2009/07/disneys-the-princess-and-the-frog-directors-address-charges-of-racism.php > > Comic-Con 09 > > EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial > Concerns > > Written by Seth Abramovitch | 24 Jul 2009 > > Disney’s The Princess and the Frog marks the studio’s long-overdue return > to hand-drawn animation, and those hands belong to Ron Clements and John > Musker - two animation veterans responsible for later-era classics like > The Little Mermaid and Aladdin. From the beginning, Disney proudly > trumpeted that Frog would feature their first African-American princess > with Tiana, a gesture that would go a small way towards righting the > wrongs of all the yarn-spinning uncles, jive-talking crows and Neverland > savages that came before her. > > But as scenes trickled out, there were murmurs of concern. Princess Tiana > would be paired with Prince Naveen - a royal of seemingly South American
Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
I think that I would call black comedy movies "dramadies." That is a mix of comedy and drama. Some of them have so much drama that you can forget that they are supposed to be a comedy. On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Omari Confer wrote: > > > Keith, > > Love the comments on the subject. As I was reading your post I was itching > to respond. By the end I just have to clap and give you a pat on the back > saying.its ok man. > > Here is another perspective. > > It is altruistic to think that an all black romantic cast will play to all > audiences. > > Black movies consist of the following: > > 'Comin up' stories/Hood to Good > Black Love mixed with comedy > > (This excludes Spike Lee movies of course) > > So creating a movie with two black leads clearly fits within this paradigm, > thus seemingly excluding white audiences. Be honest.most white audiences > see an all black or partly black cast and they think either hood movie or a > tyler perry flick. > > The transition to truly racially fluid entertainment has to be gradual. The > key demographic, just by numbers alone has been all white and is > transitioning to a blended look. > > Not only should we be happy that there is a black princess but we should > rejoice. This means that the math and the money was right enough to make it > happen...translation- Executives with big bucks accept that black characters > have universal appeal and can be human..not just black. > > This is progressRome was not built overnight. > > c w m > > > > On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Keith Johnson > wrote: > >> >> >> They can explain all they want, but the truth of this is the "Hitch" >> effect: H'wood refusing to back a big romance with a man and woman of >> clearly African-American roots. Will Smith himself said the folks behind >> "Hitch" didn't want a black female lead, as they feared it wouldn't draw >> whites. A white female lead--not a goal in my book to be sought--was of >> course right out. >> >> So it is here. It makes no sense that for the first African-American >> female lead, the male is not also African-American--or at least "African". >> Why couldn't he be a rich brother from New Orleans? Why can't his family be >> wealthy? Why can't he be an African prince of purely African heritage? All >> this talk of diversity is interesting, as it only comes up when blacks are >> involved. i don't recall Snow White, Cinderalla, Belle, Mu Lan, or any of >> the other Disney heroines being paired with a guy of an obviously different >> racial background. Oh: let me correct myself. Disney did pair one lady with >> a guy from another race. It was the story of Pochahantas and her love for a >> European. >> >> It troubles me, not because I'm against diversity, multi-culturalism, or >> marriages between people of different ethnicities. It troubles me simply >> because once again, when other cultures--especially whites--are allowed to >> love their own on screen, we're being told that black-on-black love just >> won't play at the cinemaplex. And saddest of all is that we are so happy >> just ot have *one* black person on screen, we'll just take this as a sign of >> progress. I got into a long debate with a black female friend on this, and >> her summary statement was, "You're right, it's unfortunate both leads aren't >> African Amerians. But you have to be realistic, keith, this is a good first >> step, and we can't force Disney to meet our needs." Besides, she said, her >> young daughter is so happy to have a princess look like her on screen. >> >> I asked, how were her two sons feeling about the movie, and she said, they >> were disappointed and confused the male lead wasn't just like them, but >> better something than nothing. >> >> sigh... >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "brent wodehouse" >> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 2:09:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >> Subject: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog >> Directors Address Racial Concerns >> >> >> >> >> http://www.movieline.com/2009/07/disneys-the-princess-and-the-frog-directors-address-charges-of-racism.php >> >> Comic-Con 09 >> >> EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial >> Concerns >> >> Written by Seth Abramovitch | 24 Jul 2009 >> >> Disney’s The Princess and the Frog marks
Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
Isnt that the truth!! c w m On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 2:11 AM, Mr. Worf wrote: > > > I think that I would call black comedy movies "dramadies." That is a mix of > comedy and drama. Some of them have so much drama that you can forget that > they are supposed to be a comedy. > > On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Omari Confer > wrote: > >> >> >> Keith, >> >> Love the comments on the subject. As I was reading your post I was itching >> to respond. By the end I just have to clap and give you a pat on the back >> saying.its ok man. >> >> Here is another perspective. >> >> It is altruistic to think that an all black romantic cast will play to all >> audiences. >> >> Black movies consist of the following: >> >> 'Comin up' stories/Hood to Good >> Black Love mixed with comedy >> >> (This excludes Spike Lee movies of course) >> >> So creating a movie with two black leads clearly fits within this >> paradigm, thus seemingly excluding white audiences. Be honest.most white >> audiences see an all black or partly black cast and they think either hood >> movie or a tyler perry flick. >> >> The transition to truly racially fluid entertainment has to be gradual. >> The key demographic, just by numbers alone has been all white and is >> transitioning to a blended look. >> >> Not only should we be happy that there is a black princess but we should >> rejoice. This means that the math and the money was right enough to make it >> happen...translation- Executives with big bucks accept that black characters >> have universal appeal and can be human..not just black. >> >> This is progressRome was not built overnight. >> >> c w m >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Keith Johnson > > wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> They can explain all they want, but the truth of this is the "Hitch" >>> effect: H'wood refusing to back a big romance with a man and woman of >>> clearly African-American roots. Will Smith himself said the folks behind >>> "Hitch" didn't want a black female lead, as they feared it wouldn't draw >>> whites. A white female lead--not a goal in my book to be sought--was of >>> course right out. >>> >>> So it is here. It makes no sense that for the first African-American >>> female lead, the male is not also African-American--or at least "African". >>> Why couldn't he be a rich brother from New Orleans? Why can't his family be >>> wealthy? Why can't he be an African prince of purely African heritage? All >>> this talk of diversity is interesting, as it only comes up when blacks are >>> involved. i don't recall Snow White, Cinderalla, Belle, Mu Lan, or any of >>> the other Disney heroines being paired with a guy of an obviously different >>> racial background. Oh: let me correct myself. Disney did pair one lady with >>> a guy from another race. It was the story of Pochahantas and her love for a >>> European. >>> >>> It troubles me, not because I'm against diversity, multi-culturalism, or >>> marriages between people of different ethnicities. It troubles me simply >>> because once again, when other cultures--especially whites--are allowed to >>> love their own on screen, we're being told that black-on-black love just >>> won't play at the cinemaplex. And saddest of all is that we are so happy >>> just ot have *one* black person on screen, we'll just take this as a sign of >>> progress. I got into a long debate with a black female friend on this, and >>> her summary statement was, "You're right, it's unfortunate both leads aren't >>> African Amerians. But you have to be realistic, keith, this is a good first >>> step, and we can't force Disney to meet our needs." Besides, she said, her >>> young daughter is so happy to have a princess look like her on screen. >>> >>> I asked, how were her two sons feeling about the movie, and she said, >>> they were disappointed and confused the male lead wasn't just like them, but >>> better something than nothing. >>> >>> sigh... >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "brent wodehouse" >>> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com >>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 2:09:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >>> Subject: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Prin
Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
See, I hear that, but I disagree with this "little by little" method. You mention Tyler perry, well he's become a multi-millionaire by doing "black" movies. Granted, the vast majority of his audience is black people, but that's alright by me. I guess I'm just tired of my people's stories and perceptions and presentations all being filtered and reworked to please another group's desires and likes. I grew up in a home with two black parents, my wife is a black woman, I know lots of black couples who are in love and doing it well. You're really telling me I should just be grateful and patient because someone sees fit to only tell half the story, that I shouldn't find it offensive that in a country where most black people marry black people, the story is shifted just so whites will show up? Sorry, that bothers me. and it really bothers me because the cliche is still the same: black woman gets handed off to men of other races, as has been done for centuries. Do you think white Americans would have been okay had all the early Disney cartoons put Snow White, Cinderella, etc., with non-white men? Nope. At the end of the day, though, it's back to FUBU: For Us, By Us. I guess until more black people pool money and resources and continue to make our own projects, we can't expect truly diverse presentation of our life on the big--or small--screen. - Original Message - From: "Omari Confer" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 1:51:26 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns Keith, Love the comments on the subject. As I was reading your post I was itching to respond. By the end I just have to clap and give you a pat on the back saying.its ok man. Here is another perspective. It is altruistic to think that an all black romantic cast will play to all audiences. Black movies consist of the following: 'Comin up' stories/Hood to Good Black Love mixed with comedy (This excludes Spike Lee movies of course) So creating a movie with two black leads clearly fits within this paradigm, thus seemingly excluding white audiences. Be honest.most white audiences see an all black or partly black cast and they think either hood movie or a tyler perry flick. The transition to truly racially fluid entertainment has to be gradual. The key demographic, just by numbers alone has been all white and is transitioning to a blended look. Not only should we be happy that there is a black princess but we should rejoice. This means that the math and the money was right enough to make it happen...translation- Executives with big bucks accept that black characters have universal appeal and can be human..not just black. This is progressRome was not built overnight. c w m On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Keith Johnson < keithbjohn...@comcast.net > wrote: They can explain all they want, but the truth of this is the "Hitch" effect: H'wood refusing to back a big romance with a man and woman of clearly African-American roots. Will Smith himself said the folks behind "Hitch" didn't want a black female lead, as they feared it wouldn't draw whites. A white female lead--not a goal in my book to be sought--was of course right out. So it is here. It makes no sense that for the first African-American female lead, the male is not also African-American--or at least "African". Why couldn't he be a rich brother from New Orleans? Why can't his family be wealthy? Why can't he be an African prince of purely African heritage? All this talk of diversity is interesting, as it only comes up when blacks are involved. i don't recall Snow White, Cinderalla, Belle, Mu Lan, or any of the other Disney heroines being paired with a guy of an obviously different racial background. Oh: let me correct myself. Disney did pair one lady with a guy from another race. It was the story of Pochahantas and her love for a European. It troubles me, not because I'm against diversity, multi-culturalism, or marriages between people of different ethnicities. It troubles me simply because once again, when other cultures--especially whites--are allowed to love their own on screen, we're being told that black-on-black love just won't play at the cinemaplex. And saddest of all is that we are so happy just ot have *one* black person on screen, we'll just take this as a sign of progress. I got into a long debate with a black female friend on this, and her summary statement was, "You're right, it's unfortunate both leads aren't African Amerians. But you have to be realistic, keith, this is a good first step, and we can't force Disney to meet our needs.&qu
Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
thanks for the compliment, by the way. But you know, your statement put me in mind of the movie "The Ugly Truth", which i saw to please my wife yesterday. (We typically take turns with movies, a scifi/action one for me, a rom-com for her, interspersed with movies we both like). Starring katherine "Grey's Anatomy" Heigel and Gerard "300" Butler, it was supposed to be a funny, sardonic look at love. Instead, it was an unfunny, wretched, cliched mess that played exactly like one of the less-funny scenes of "Desperate Housewives" stretched out to ninety minutes. As I sat there suffering through a film full of dirty jokes and groan-inducing lines, I kept thinking, "this gets greenlit because H'Wood thinks Heigel is a funny, beautiful blonde. How many more talented actors and writers of color get turned down because they're deemed unprofitable?". And H'Wood expects a decent number of black folk to show up to movies with all-white casts--and we do. I'm okay with that, but I really should have the right to expect reciprocity: that my stories are just as interesting as the reverse. Why shouldn't I expect whites to support and enjoy the far superiour likes of "Love Jones" and "Brown Sugar" when i pay for dreck like "The Ugly Truth" or "Must Love Dogs"? No, i get the reality of what you say, but as MLK said "How long...?" I'm to the point where i could care less about big blockbusters from the House of the Mouse or others doling out carefully tested pieces of our culture, allowing the masses to dip their toes in the pool of Blackness. It's too much to me like begging, or standing bowed with my hat in my hand waiting for Massuh to pay attention to me. No, I prefer the Tyler Perry model, even the Spike Lee model: make our own fare, do it for less money, say and do and employ who and what you want, and let the diminished but hopefully still positive box office speak for itself. I would rather see a dozen small, genuine, well-done flicks like "Akeelah and the Bee", "Once Upon a Time When We Were Colored", and "Sankofah", than worldwide smashes like "Hitch" and this film that remind me that a lot of people don't fully appreciate blacks as equals in all facets of life. Dang--who put that soapbox in here? - Original Message - From: "Omari Confer" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 1:51:26 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns Keith, Love the comments on the subject. As I was reading your post I was itching to respond. By the end I just have to clap and give you a pat on the back saying.its ok man. Here is another perspective. It is altruistic to think that an all black romantic cast will play to all audiences. Black movies consist of the following: 'Comin up' stories/Hood to Good Black Love mixed with comedy (This excludes Spike Lee movies of course) So creating a movie with two black leads clearly fits within this paradigm, thus seemingly excluding white audiences. Be honest.most white audiences see an all black or partly black cast and they think either hood movie or a tyler perry flick. The transition to truly racially fluid entertainment has to be gradual. The key demographic, just by numbers alone has been all white and is transitioning to a blended look. Not only should we be happy that there is a black princess but we should rejoice. This means that the math and the money was right enough to make it happen...translation- Executives with big bucks accept that black characters have universal appeal and can be human..not just black. This is progressRome was not built overnight. c w m On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Keith Johnson < keithbjohn...@comcast.net > wrote: They can explain all they want, but the truth of this is the "Hitch" effect: H'wood refusing to back a big romance with a man and woman of clearly African-American roots. Will Smith himself said the folks behind "Hitch" didn't want a black female lead, as they feared it wouldn't draw whites. A white female lead--not a goal in my book to be sought--was of course right out. So it is here. It makes no sense that for the first African-American female lead, the male is not also African-American--or at least "African". Why couldn't he be a rich brother from New Orleans? Why can't his family be wealthy? Why can't he be an African prince of purely African heritage? All this talk of diversity is interesting, as it only comes up when blacks are involved. i don't recall Snow White, Cinderalla, Belle, Mu Lan, or any of the other Disney
Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
There have been lots of good, dramatic black movies that aren't "urban", hip-hop flavored, or even "dramedies". I think it's a matter of us being sure to seek them out... - Original Message - From: "Omari Confer" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 4:00:17 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns Isnt that the truth!! c w m On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 2:11 AM, Mr. Worf < hellomahog...@gmail.com > wrote: I think that I would call black comedy movies "dramadies." That is a mix of comedy and drama. Some of them have so much drama that you can forget that they are supposed to be a comedy. On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Omari Confer < clockwork...@gmail.com > wrote: Keith, Love the comments on the subject. As I was reading your post I was itching to respond. By the end I just have to clap and give you a pat on the back saying.its ok man. Here is another perspective. It is altruistic to think that an all black romantic cast will play to all audiences. Black movies consist of the following: 'Comin up' stories/Hood to Good Black Love mixed with comedy (This excludes Spike Lee movies of course) So creating a movie with two black leads clearly fits within this paradigm, thus seemingly excluding white audiences. Be honest.most white audiences see an all black or partly black cast and they think either hood movie or a tyler perry flick. The transition to truly racially fluid entertainment has to be gradual. The key demographic, just by numbers alone has been all white and is transitioning to a blended look. Not only should we be happy that there is a black princess but we should rejoice. This means that the math and the money was right enough to make it happen...translation- Executives with big bucks accept that black characters have universal appeal and can be human..not just black. This is progressRome was not built overnight. c w m On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Keith Johnson < keithbjohn...@comcast.net > wrote: They can explain all they want, but the truth of this is the "Hitch" effect: H'wood refusing to back a big romance with a man and woman of clearly African-American roots. Will Smith himself said the folks behind "Hitch" didn't want a black female lead, as they feared it wouldn't draw whites. A white female lead--not a goal in my book to be sought--was of course right out. So it is here. It makes no sense that for the first African-American female lead, the male is not also African-American--or at least "African". Why couldn't he be a rich brother from New Orleans? Why can't his family be wealthy? Why can't he be an African prince of purely African heritage? All this talk of diversity is interesting, as it only comes up when blacks are involved. i don't recall Snow White, Cinderalla, Belle, Mu Lan, or any of the other Disney heroines being paired with a guy of an obviously different racial background. Oh: let me correct myself. Disney did pair one lady with a guy from another race. It was the story of Pochahantas and her love for a European. It troubles me, not because I'm against diversity, multi-culturalism, or marriages between people of different ethnicities. It troubles me simply because once again, when other cultures--especially whites--are allowed to love their own on screen, we're being told that black-on-black love just won't play at the cinemaplex. And saddest of all is that we are so happy just ot have *one* black person on screen, we'll just take this as a sign of progress. I got into a long debate with a black female friend on this, and her summary statement was, "You're right, it's unfortunate both leads aren't African Amerians. But you have to be realistic, keith, this is a good first step, and we can't force Disney to meet our needs." Besides, she said, her young daughter is so happy to have a princess look like her on screen. I asked, how were her two sons feeling about the movie, and she said, they were disappointed and confused the male lead wasn't just like them, but better something than nothing. sigh... - Original Message - From: "brent wodehouse" < brent_wodeho...@thefence.us > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 2:09:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns http://www.movieline.com/2009/07/disneys-the-princess-and-the-frog-directors-address-charges-of-racism.php Comic-Con 09 EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Add
Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
(standing ovation) -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns Date : Mon, 27 Jul 2009 20:47:33 + (UTC) From : Keith Johnson To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com thanks for the compliment, by the way. But you know, your statement put me in mind of the movie "The Ugly Truth", which i saw to please my wife yesterday. (We typically take turns with movies, a scifi/action one for me, a rom-com for her, interspersed with movies we both like). Starring katherine "Grey's Anatomy" Heigel and Gerard "300" Butler, it was supposed to be a funny, sardonic look at love. Instead, it was an unfunny, wretched, cliched mess that played exactly like one of the less-funny scenes of "Desperate Housewives" stretched out to ninety minutes. As I sat there suffering through a film full of dirty jokes and groan-inducing lines, I kept thinking, "this gets greenlit because H'Wood thinks Heigel is a funny, beautiful blonde. How many more talented actors and writers of color get turned down because they're deemed unprofitable?". And H'Wood expects a decent number of black folk to show up to movies with all-white casts--and we do. I'm okay with that, but I really should have the right to expect reciprocity: that my stories are just as interesting as the reverse. Why shouldn't I expect whites to support and enjoy the far superiour likes of "Love Jones" and "Brown Sugar" when i pay for dreck like "The Ugly Truth" or "Must Love Dogs"? No, i get the reality of what you say, but as MLK said "How long...?" I'm to the point where i could care less about big blockbusters from the House of the Mouse or others doling out carefully tested pieces of our culture, allowing the masses to dip their toes in the pool of Blackness. It's too much to me like begging, or standing bowed with my hat in my hand waiting for Massuh to pay attention to me. No, I prefer the Tyler Perry model, even the Spike Lee model: make our own fare, do it for less money, say and do and employ who and what you want, and let the diminished but hopefully still positive box office speak for itself. I would rather see a dozen small, genuine, well-done flicks like "Akeelah and the Bee", "Once Upon a Time When We Were Colored", and "Sankofah", than worldwide smashes like "Hitch" and this film that remind me that a lot of people don't fully appreciate blacks as equals in all facets of life. Dang--who put that soapbox in here? - Original Message ----- From: "Omari Confer" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 1:51:26 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns Keith, Love the comments on the subject. As I was reading your post I was itching to respond. By the end I just have to clap and give you a pat on the back saying.its ok man. Here is another perspective. It is altruistic to think that an all black romantic cast will play to all audiences. Black movies consist of the following: 'Comin up' stories/Hood to Good Black Love mixed with comedy (This excludes Spike Lee movies of course) So creating a movie with two black leads clearly fits within this paradigm, thus seemingly excluding white audiences. Be honest.most white audiences see an all black or partly black cast and they think either hood movie or a tyler perry flick. The transition to truly racially fluid entertainment has to be gradual. The key demographic, just by numbers alone has been all white and is transitioning to a blended look. Not only should we be happy that there is a black princess but we should rejoice. This means that the math and the money was right enough to make it happen...translation- Executives with big bucks accept that black characters have universal appeal and can be human..not just black. This is progressRome was not built overnight. c w m On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Keith Johnson < keithbjohn...@comcast.net > wrote: They can explain all they want, but the truth of this is the "Hitch" effect: H'wood refusing to back a big romance with a man and woman of clearly African-American roots. Will Smith himself said the folks behind "Hitch" didn't want a black female lead, as they feared it wouldn't draw whites. A white female lead--not a goal in my book to be sought--was of course right out. So it is here. It makes no sense that for the first African-American female lead, the male is not also African-American--or at least "African". Why couldn't he be a rich brother from Ne
Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
I agree. I think that there should be more movies with the main characters a married black couple. Hollywood has it looking like the only black couples out there is the Huxtables. On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Keith Johnson wrote: > > > See, I hear that, but I disagree with this "little by little" method. You > mention Tyler perry, well he's become a multi-millionaire by doing "black" > movies. Granted, the vast majority of his audience is black people, but > that's alright by me. I guess I'm just tired of my people's stories and > perceptions and presentations all being filtered and reworked to please > another group's desires and likes. I grew up in a home with two black > parents, my wife is a black woman, I know lots of black couples who are in > love and doing it well. You're really telling me I should just be grateful > and patient because someone sees fit to only tell half the story, that I > shouldn't find it offensive that in a country where most black people marry > black people, the story is shifted just so whites will show up? > Sorry, that bothers me. and it really bothers me because the cliche is > still the same: black woman gets handed off to men of other races, as has > been done for centuries. Do you think white Americans would have been okay > had all the early Disney cartoons put Snow White, Cinderella, etc., with > non-white men? Nope. > > At the end of the day, though, it's back to FUBU: For Us, By Us. I guess > until more black people pool money and resources and continue to make our > own projects, we can't expect truly diverse presentation of our life on the > big--or small--screen. > > > - Original Message - > From: "Omari Confer" > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 1:51:26 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog > Directors Address Racial Concerns > > > > Keith, > > Love the comments on the subject. As I was reading your post I was itching > to respond. By the end I just have to clap and give you a pat on the back > saying.its ok man. > > Here is another perspective. > > It is altruistic to think that an all black romantic cast will play to all > audiences. > > Black movies consist of the following: > > 'Comin up' stories/Hood to Good > Black Love mixed with comedy > > (This excludes Spike Lee movies of course) > > So creating a movie with two black leads clearly fits within this paradigm, > thus seemingly excluding white audiences. Be honest.most white audiences > see an all black or partly black cast and they think either hood movie or a > tyler perry flick. > > The transition to truly racially fluid entertainment has to be gradual. The > key demographic, just by numbers alone has been all white and is > transitioning to a blended look. > > Not only should we be happy that there is a black princess but we should > rejoice. This means that the math and the money was right enough to make it > happen...translation- Executives with big bucks accept that black characters > have universal appeal and can be human..not just black. > > This is progressRome was not built overnight. > > c w m > > > > On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Keith Johnson > wrote: > >> >> >> They can explain all they want, but the truth of this is the "Hitch" >> effect: H'wood refusing to back a big romance with a man and woman of >> clearly African-American roots. Will Smith himself said the folks behind >> "Hitch" didn't want a black female lead, as they feared it wouldn't draw >> whites. A white female lead--not a goal in my book to be sought--was of >> course right out. >> >> So it is here. It makes no sense that for the first African-American >> female lead, the male is not also African-American--or at least "African". >> Why couldn't he be a rich brother from New Orleans? Why can't his family be >> wealthy? Why can't he be an African prince of purely African heritage? All >> this talk of diversity is interesting, as it only comes up when blacks are >> involved. i don't recall Snow White, Cinderalla, Belle, Mu Lan, or any of >> the other Disney heroines being paired with a guy of an obviously different >> racial background. Oh: let me correct myself. Disney did pair one lady with >> a guy from another race. It was the story of Pochahantas and her love for a >> European. >> >> It troubles me, not because I'm against diversity, multi-culturalism, or >> marriages between peopl
Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
Hollywood can't do us. They don't KNOW us. If you mean those who grew up
Black who are in Hollywood, then I agree with you. But otherwise, WE have to
do us.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-Original Message-
From: "Mr. Worf"
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 02:40:55
To:
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog
Directors Address Racial Concerns
I agree. I think that there should be more movies with the main characters a
married black couple. Hollywood has it looking like the only black couples
out there is the Huxtables.
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Keith Johnson wrote:
>
>
> See, I hear that, but I disagree with this "little by little" method. You
> mention Tyler perry, well he's become a multi-millionaire by doing "black"
> movies. Granted, the vast majority of his audience is black people, but
> that's alright by me. I guess I'm just tired of my people's stories and
> perceptions and presentations all being filtered and reworked to please
> another group's desires and likes. I grew up in a home with two black
> parents, my wife is a black woman, I know lots of black couples who are in
> love and doing it well. You're really telling me I should just be grateful
> and patient because someone sees fit to only tell half the story, that I
> shouldn't find it offensive that in a country where most black people marry
> black people, the story is shifted just so whites will show up?
> Sorry, that bothers me. and it really bothers me because the cliche is
> still the same: black woman gets handed off to men of other races, as has
> been done for centuries. Do you think white Americans would have been okay
> had all the early Disney cartoons put Snow White, Cinderella, etc., with
> non-white men? Nope.
>
> At the end of the day, though, it's back to FUBU: For Us, By Us. I guess
> until more black people pool money and resources and continue to make our
> own projects, we can't expect truly diverse presentation of our life on the
> big--or small--screen.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Omari Confer"
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 1:51:26 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog
> Directors Address Racial Concerns
>
>
>
> Keith,
>
> Love the comments on the subject. As I was reading your post I was itching
> to respond. By the end I just have to clap and give you a pat on the back
> saying.its ok man.
>
> Here is another perspective.
>
> It is altruistic to think that an all black romantic cast will play to all
> audiences.
>
> Black movies consist of the following:
>
> 'Comin up' stories/Hood to Good
> Black Love mixed with comedy
>
> (This excludes Spike Lee movies of course)
>
> So creating a movie with two black leads clearly fits within this paradigm,
> thus seemingly excluding white audiences. Be honest.most white audiences
> see an all black or partly black cast and they think either hood movie or a
> tyler perry flick.
>
> The transition to truly racially fluid entertainment has to be gradual. The
> key demographic, just by numbers alone has been all white and is
> transitioning to a blended look.
>
> Not only should we be happy that there is a black princess but we should
> rejoice. This means that the math and the money was right enough to make it
> happen...translation- Executives with big bucks accept that black characters
> have universal appeal and can be human..not just black.
>
> This is progressRome was not built overnight.
>
> c w m
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Keith Johnson
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> They can explain all they want, but the truth of this is the "Hitch"
>> effect: H'wood refusing to back a big romance with a man and woman of
>> clearly African-American roots. Will Smith himself said the folks behind
>> "Hitch" didn't want a black female lead, as they feared it wouldn't draw
>> whites. A white female lead--not a goal in my book to be sought--was of
>> course right out.
>>
>> So it is here. It makes no sense that for the first African-American
>> female lead, the male is not also African-American--or at least "African".
>> Why couldn't he be a rich brother from New Orleans? Why can't his family be
>> wealthy? Why can't he be an African prince of purely African heritage? All
>> this talk of diversity is interesting, as it only comes up when blacks are
>> involved. i don't recall Snow White, Cinderalla, Belle
Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
yep. And frankly, i think this cautious approach now proves to have been sadly mistimed. How amazing would it have been to have a black couple onscreen while we have a black couple in the White House?! (and yes, i know Obama is half black, but still...) - Original Message - From: "Mr. Worf" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 5:40:55 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns I agree. I think that there should be more movies with the main characters a married black couple. Hollywood has it looking like the only black couples out there is the Huxtables. On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Keith Johnson < keithbjohn...@comcast.net > wrote: See, I hear that, but I disagree with this "little by little" method. You mention Tyler perry, well he's become a multi-millionaire by doing "black" movies. Granted, the vast majority of his audience is black people, but that's alright by me. I guess I'm just tired of my people's stories and perceptions and presentations all being filtered and reworked to please another group's desires and likes. I grew up in a home with two black parents, my wife is a black woman, I know lots of black couples who are in love and doing it well. You're really telling me I should just be grateful and patient because someone sees fit to only tell half the story, that I shouldn't find it offensive that in a country where most black people marry black people, the story is shifted just so whites will show up? Sorry, that bothers me. and it really bothers me because the cliche is still the same: black woman gets handed off to men of other races, as has been done for centuries. Do you think white Americans would have been okay had all the early Disney cartoons put Snow White, Cinderella, etc., with non-white men? Nope. At the end of the day, though, it's back to FUBU: For Us, By Us. I guess until more black people pool money and resources and continue to make our own projects, we can't expect truly diverse presentation of our life on the big--or small--screen. - Original Message - From: "Omari Confer" < clockwork...@gmail.com > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 1:51:26 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns Keith, Love the comments on the subject. As I was reading your post I was itching to respond. By the end I just have to clap and give you a pat on the back saying.its ok man. Here is another perspective. It is altruistic to think that an all black romantic cast will play to all audiences. Black movies consist of the following: 'Comin up' stories/Hood to Good Black Love mixed with comedy (This excludes Spike Lee movies of course) So creating a movie with two black leads clearly fits within this paradigm, thus seemingly excluding white audiences. Be honest.most white audiences see an all black or partly black cast and they think either hood movie or a tyler perry flick. The transition to truly racially fluid entertainment has to be gradual. The key demographic, just by numbers alone has been all white and is transitioning to a blended look. Not only should we be happy that there is a black princess but we should rejoice. This means that the math and the money was right enough to make it happen...translation- Executives with big bucks accept that black characters have universal appeal and can be human..not just black. This is progressRome was not built overnight. c w m On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Keith Johnson < keithbjohn...@comcast.net > wrote: They can explain all they want, but the truth of this is the "Hitch" effect: H'wood refusing to back a big romance with a man and woman of clearly African-American roots. Will Smith himself said the folks behind "Hitch" didn't want a black female lead, as they feared it wouldn't draw whites. A white female lead--not a goal in my book to be sought--was of course right out. So it is here. It makes no sense that for the first African-American female lead, the male is not also African-American--or at least "African". Why couldn't he be a rich brother from New Orleans? Why can't his family be wealthy? Why can't he be an African prince of purely African heritage? All this talk of diversity is interesting, as it only comes up when blacks are involved. i don't recall Snow White, Cinderalla, Belle, Mu Lan, or any of the other Disney heroines being paired with a guy of an obviously different racial background. Oh: let me correct myself. Disney did pair one lady with a
Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
Agreed. - Original Message - From: mcjennings...@yahoo.com To: "SciFi2" Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:13:00 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns Hollywood can't do us. They don't KNOW us. If you mean those who grew up Black who are in Hollywood, then I agree with you. But otherwise, WE have to do us. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T >From : "Mr. Worf" Date : Fri, 31 Jul 2009 02:40:55 -0700 To : Subject : Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns I agree. I think that there should be more movies with the main characters a married black couple. Hollywood has it looking like the only black couples out there is the Huxtables. On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Keith Johnson < keithbjohn...@comcast.net > wrote: See, I hear that, but I disagree with this "little by little" method. You mention Tyler perry, well he's become a multi-millionaire by doing "black" movies. Granted, the vast majority of his audience is black people, but that's alright by me. I guess I'm just tired of my people's stories and perceptions and presentations all being filtered and reworked to please another group's desires and likes. I grew up in a home with two black parents, my wife is a black woman, I know lots of black couples who are in love and doing it well. You're really telling me I should just be grateful and patient because someone sees fit to only tell half the story, that I shouldn't find it offensive that in a country where most black people marry black people, the story is shifted just so whites will show up? Sorry, that bothers me. and it really bothers me because the cliche is still the same: black woman gets handed off to men of other races, as has been done for centuries. Do you think white Americans would have been okay had all the early Disney cartoons put Snow White, Cinderella, etc., with non-white men? Nope. At the end of the day, though, it's back to FUBU: For Us, By Us. I guess until more black people pool money and resources and continue to make our own projects, we can't expect truly diverse presentation of our life on the big--or small--screen. - Original Message - From: "Omari Confer" < clockwork...@gmail.com > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 1:51:26 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns Keith, Love the comments on the subject. As I was reading your post I was itching to respond. By the end I just have to clap and give you a pat on the back saying.its ok man. Here is another perspective. It is altruistic to think that an all black romantic cast will play to all audiences. Black movies consist of the following: 'Comin up' stories/Hood to Good Black Love mixed with comedy (This excludes Spike Lee movies of course) So creating a movie with two black leads clearly fits within this paradigm, thus seemingly excluding white audiences. Be honest.most white audiences see an all black or partly black cast and they think either hood movie or a tyler perry flick. The transition to truly racially fluid entertainment has to be gradual. The key demographic, just by numbers alone has been all white and is transitioning to a blended look. Not only should we be happy that there is a black princess but we should rejoice. This means that the math and the money was right enough to make it happen...translation- Executives with big bucks accept that black characters have universal appeal and can be human..not just black. This is progressRome was not built overnight. c w m On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Keith Johnson < keithbjohn...@comcast.net > wrote: They can explain all they want, but the truth of this is the "Hitch" effect: H'wood refusing to back a big romance with a man and woman of clearly African-American roots. Will Smith himself said the folks behind "Hitch" didn't want a black female lead, as they feared it wouldn't draw whites. A white female lead--not a goal in my book to be sought--was of course right out. So it is here. It makes no sense that for the first African-American female lead, the male is not also African-American--or at least "African". Why couldn't he be a rich brother from New Orleans? Why can't his family be wealthy? Why can't he be an African prince of purely African heritage? All this talk of diversity is interesting, as it only comes up when blacks are involved. i don't recall Snow White, Cinderalla, Belle, Mu Lan, or any of the other
Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
And I think that's what concerns me about those who say we should be "grateful", "happy", or "patient" with Disney's half stepping here. How offensive is it to let someone else tell our story and slant it like this in this, would could, for all we know, but the only Disney toon with a black female lead for the next few years. I'd even take, in a pinch, some type of dismissive attitude, or perhaps one of "what do you expect?" But grateful and happy? Sorry! - Original Message - From: mcjennings...@yahoo.com To: "SciFi2" Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:13:00 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns Hollywood can't do us. They don't KNOW us. If you mean those who grew up Black who are in Hollywood, then I agree with you. But otherwise, WE have to do us. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T >From : "Mr. Worf" Date : Fri, 31 Jul 2009 02:40:55 -0700 To : Subject : Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns I agree. I think that there should be more movies with the main characters a married black couple. Hollywood has it looking like the only black couples out there is the Huxtables. On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Keith Johnson < keithbjohn...@comcast.net > wrote: See, I hear that, but I disagree with this "little by little" method. You mention Tyler perry, well he's become a multi-millionaire by doing "black" movies. Granted, the vast majority of his audience is black people, but that's alright by me. I guess I'm just tired of my people's stories and perceptions and presentations all being filtered and reworked to please another group's desires and likes. I grew up in a home with two black parents, my wife is a black woman, I know lots of black couples who are in love and doing it well. You're really telling me I should just be grateful and patient because someone sees fit to only tell half the story, that I shouldn't find it offensive that in a country where most black people marry black people, the story is shifted just so whites will show up? Sorry, that bothers me. and it really bothers me because the cliche is still the same: black woman gets handed off to men of other races, as has been done for centuries. Do you think white Americans would have been okay had all the early Disney cartoons put Snow White, Cinderella, etc., with non-white men? Nope. At the end of the day, though, it's back to FUBU: For Us, By Us. I guess until more black people pool money and resources and continue to make our own projects, we can't expect truly diverse presentation of our life on the big--or small--screen. - Original Message - From: "Omari Confer" < clockwork...@gmail.com > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 1:51:26 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns Keith, Love the comments on the subject. As I was reading your post I was itching to respond. By the end I just have to clap and give you a pat on the back saying.its ok man. Here is another perspective. It is altruistic to think that an all black romantic cast will play to all audiences. Black movies consist of the following: 'Comin up' stories/Hood to Good Black Love mixed with comedy (This excludes Spike Lee movies of course) So creating a movie with two black leads clearly fits within this paradigm, thus seemingly excluding white audiences. Be honest.most white audiences see an all black or partly black cast and they think either hood movie or a tyler perry flick. The transition to truly racially fluid entertainment has to be gradual. The key demographic, just by numbers alone has been all white and is transitioning to a blended look. Not only should we be happy that there is a black princess but we should rejoice. This means that the math and the money was right enough to make it happen...translation- Executives with big bucks accept that black characters have universal appeal and can be human..not just black. This is progressRome was not built overnight. c w m On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Keith Johnson < keithbjohn...@comcast.net > wrote: They can explain all they want, but the truth of this is the "Hitch" effect: H'wood refusing to back a big romance with a man and woman of clearly African-American roots. Will Smith himself said the folks behind "Hitch" didn't want a black female lead, as they feared it wouldn't draw whites. A white female lead--not a goal in my book to be sought--was
Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
I think that part of the problem is that the writers are white people from the midwest or gay jewish guys so they are going to really understand black people (or any one else) enough to be able to write about them, so when we do get movies that have characters of color we get these stereotypes. For established actors of color they get parts that are usually a little over the top like Will Smith. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:13 AM, wrote: > > > Hollywood can't do us. They don't KNOW us. If you mean those who grew up > Black who are in Hollywood, then I agree with you. But otherwise, WE have to > do us. > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > -- > *From*: "Mr. Worf" > *Date*: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 02:40:55 -0700 > *To*: > > *Subject*: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog > Directors Address Racial Concerns > > > I agree. I think that there should be more movies with the main characters > a married black couple. Hollywood has it looking like the only black couples > out there is the Huxtables. > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Keith Johnson > wrote: > >> >> >> See, I hear that, but I disagree with this "little by little" method. You >> mention Tyler perry, well he's become a multi-millionaire by doing "black" >> movies. Granted, the vast majority of his audience is black people, but >> that's alright by me. I guess I'm just tired of my people's stories and >> perceptions and presentations all being filtered and reworked to please >> another group's desires and likes. I grew up in a home with two black >> parents, my wife is a black woman, I know lots of black couples who are in >> love and doing it well. You're really telling me I should just be grateful >> and patient because someone sees fit to only tell half the story, that I >> shouldn't find it offensive that in a country where most black people marry >> black people, the story is shifted just so whites will show up? >> Sorry, that bothers me. and it really bothers me because the cliche is >> still the same: black woman gets handed off to men of other races, as has >> been done for centuries. Do you think white Americans would have been okay >> had all the early Disney cartoons put Snow White, Cinderella, etc., with >> non-white men? Nope. >> >> At the end of the day, though, it's back to FUBU: For Us, By Us. I guess >> until more black people pool money and resources and continue to make our >> own projects, we can't expect truly diverse presentation of our life on the >> big--or small--screen. >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Omari Confer" >> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 1:51:26 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog >> Directors Address Racial Concerns >> >> >> >> Keith, >> >> Love the comments on the subject. As I was reading your post I was itching >> to respond. By the end I just have to clap and give you a pat on the back >> saying.its ok man. >> >> Here is another perspective. >> >> It is altruistic to think that an all black romantic cast will play to all >> audiences. >> >> Black movies consist of the following: >> >> 'Comin up' stories/Hood to Good >> Black Love mixed with comedy >> >> (This excludes Spike Lee movies of course) >> >> So creating a movie with two black leads clearly fits within this >> paradigm, thus seemingly excluding white audiences. Be honest.most white >> audiences see an all black or partly black cast and they think either hood >> movie or a tyler perry flick. >> >> The transition to truly racially fluid entertainment has to be gradual. >> The key demographic, just by numbers alone has been all white and is >> transitioning to a blended look. >> >> Not only should we be happy that there is a black princess but we should >> rejoice. This means that the math and the money was right enough to make it >> happen...translation- Executives with big bucks accept that black characters >> have universal appeal and can be human..not just black. >> >> This is progressRome was not built overnight. >> >> c w m >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Keith Johnson > > wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> They can explain all they want, but the truth of this is the "Hitch" >>> effect: H&#
Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
This reminded me of the discussions that were still going on about afro-american vs african american when I was a kid. Instead of embracing it people wanted to be called afro-american which isn't the correct term because "they didn't want to upset the man" and we should be happy that we can use that name. Taking a page from the civil rights movement, we should boycott disney until they do it right or start making films with black characters and couples in them. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Keith Johnson wrote: > > > And I think that's what concerns me about those who say we should be > "grateful", "happy", or "patient" with Disney's half stepping here. How > offensive is it to let someone else tell our story and slant it like this in > this, would could, for all we know, but the only Disney toon with a black > female lead for the next few years. > I'd even take, in a pinch, some type of dismissive attitude, or perhaps one > of "what do you expect?" But grateful and happy? Sorry! > > > > - Original Message - > From: mcjennings...@yahoo.com > To: "SciFi2" > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:13:00 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog > Directors Address Racial Concerns > > > > Hollywood can't do us. They don't KNOW us. If you mean those who grew up > Black who are in Hollywood, then I agree with you. But otherwise, WE have to > do us. > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > ---------- > *From*: "Mr. Worf" > *Date*: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 02:40:55 -0700 > *To*: > *Subject*: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog > Directors Address Racial Concerns > > > > I agree. I think that there should be more movies with the main characters > a married black couple. Hollywood has it looking like the only black couples > out there is the Huxtables. > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Keith Johnson > wrote: > >> >> >> See, I hear that, but I disagree with this "little by little" method. You >> mention Tyler perry, well he's become a multi-millionaire by doing "black" >> movies. Granted, the vast majority of his audience is black people, but >> that's alright by me. I guess I'm just tired of my people's stories and >> perceptions and presentations all being filtered and reworked to please >> another group's desires and likes. I grew up in a home with two black >> parents, my wife is a black woman, I know lots of black couples who are in >> love and doing it well. You're really telling me I should just be grateful >> and patient because someone sees fit to only tell half the story, that I >> shouldn't find it offensive that in a country where most black people marry >> black people, the story is shifted just so whites will show up? >> Sorry, that bothers me. and it really bothers me because the cliche is >> still the same: black woman gets handed off to men of other races, as has >> been done for centuries. Do you think white Americans would have been okay >> had all the early Disney cartoons put Snow White, Cinderella, etc., with >> non-white men? Nope. >> >> At the end of the day, though, it's back to FUBU: For Us, By Us. I guess >> until more black people pool money and resources and continue to make our >> own projects, we can't expect truly diverse presentation of our life on the >> big--or small--screen. >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Omari Confer" >> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 1:51:26 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog >> Directors Address Racial Concerns >> >> >> >> Keith, >> >> Love the comments on the subject. As I was reading your post I was itching >> to respond. By the end I just have to clap and give you a pat on the back >> saying.its ok man. >> >> Here is another perspective. >> >> It is altruistic to think that an all black romantic cast will play to all >> audiences. >> >> Black movies consist of the following: >> >> 'Comin up' stories/Hood to Good >> Black Love mixed with comedy >> >> (This excludes Spike Lee movies of course) >> >> So creating a movie with two black leads clearly fits within this >> paradigm, thus seemingly excluding white audiences. Be honest.most white >> audiences see an all
RE: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
Totally agree. LOL at 'gay jewish guys!' _ From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Worf Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 4:47 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns I think that part of the problem is that the writers are white people from the midwest or gay jewish guys so they are going to really understand black people (or any one else) enough to be able to write about them, so when we do get movies that have characters of color we get these stereotypes. For established actors of color they get parts that are usually a little over the top like Will Smith. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:13 AM, mailto:mcjennings...@yahoo.com> yahoo.com> wrote: Hollywood can't do us. They don't KNOW us. If you mean those who grew up Black who are in Hollywood, then I agree with you. But otherwise, WE have to do us. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T _ From: "Mr. Worf" Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 02:40:55 -0700 To: mailto:scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com> ups.com> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns I agree. I think that there should be more movies with the main characters a married black couple. Hollywood has it looking like the only black couples out there is the Huxtables. On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Keith Johnson mailto:keithbjohn...@comcast.net> comcast.net> wrote: See, I hear that, but I disagree with this "little by little" method. You mention Tyler perry, well he's become a multi-millionaire by doing "black" movies. Granted, the vast majority of his audience is black people, but that's alright by me. I guess I'm just tired of my people's stories and perceptions and presentations all being filtered and reworked to please another group's desires and likes. I grew up in a home with two black parents, my wife is a black woman, I know lots of black couples who are in love and doing it well. You're really telling me I should just be grateful and patient because someone sees fit to only tell half the story, that I shouldn't find it offensive that in a country where most black people marry black people, the story is shifted just so whites will show up? Sorry, that bothers me. and it really bothers me because the cliche is still the same: black woman gets handed off to men of other races, as has been done for centuries. Do you think white Americans would have been okay had all the early Disney cartoons put Snow White, Cinderella, etc., with non-white men? Nope. At the end of the day, though, it's back to FUBU: For Us, By Us. I guess until more black people pool money and resources and continue to make our own projects, we can't expect truly diverse presentation of our life on the big--or small--screen. - Original Message - From: "Omari Confer" mailto:clockwork...@gmail.com> gmail.com> To: scifino...@yahoogro <mailto:scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com> ups.com Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 1:51:26 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns Keith, Love the comments on the subject. As I was reading your post I was itching to respond. By the end I just have to clap and give you a pat on the back saying.its ok man. Here is another perspective. It is altruistic to think that an all black romantic cast will play to all audiences. Black movies consist of the following: 'Comin up' stories/Hood to Good Black Love mixed with comedy (This excludes Spike Lee movies of course) So creating a movie with two black leads clearly fits within this paradigm, thus seemingly excluding white audiences. Be honest.most white audiences see an all black or partly black cast and they think either hood movie or a tyler perry flick. The transition to truly racially fluid entertainment has to be gradual. The key demographic, just by numbers alone has been all white and is transitioning to a blended look. Not only should we be happy that there is a black princess but we should rejoice. This means that the math and the money was right enough to make it happen...translation- Executives with big bucks accept that black characters have universal appeal and can be human..not just black. This is progressRome was not built overnight. c w m On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Keith Johnson mailto:keithbjohn...@comcast.net> comcast.net> wrote: They can explain all they want, but the truth of this is the "Hitch" effect: H'wood refusing to back a big romance with a man and woman of clearly African-American roots. Will Smith himself said the folks behind "Hitch" didn't
Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
I'm not picking on them, nor am I homophobic, but they helped to build Hollywood and are part of its foundation. The problem is that the lack of diversity within their writing staff (hollywood as a whole) produces the stereotypes and poor representation of characters. So we get stuff like Ving Rhimes in Kojak instead of Ving Rhimes in Hannibal or we get Will Smith in Independence day instead of Will Smith in the Gen. Benjamin Davis jr. or sr. or Colin Powell story. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Reece Jennings wrote: > > > Totally agree. LOL at 'gay jewish guys!' > > -- > *From:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Mr. Worf > *Sent:* Friday, July 31, 2009 4:47 PM > > *To:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog > Directors Address Racial Concerns > > > > I think that part of the problem is that the writers are white people from > the midwest or gay jewish guys so they are going to really understand black > people (or any one else) enough to be able to write about them, so when we > do get movies that have characters of color we get these stereotypes. For > established actors of color they get parts that are usually a little over > the top like Will Smith. > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:13 AM, wrote: > >> >> >> Hollywood can't do us. They don't KNOW us. If you mean those who grew up >> Black who are in Hollywood, then I agree with you. But otherwise, WE have to >> do us. >> >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T >> >> -------------- >> *From*: "Mr. Worf" >> *Date*: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 02:40:55 -0700 >> *To*: >> >> *Subject*: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog >> Directors Address Racial Concerns >> >> >> I agree. I think that there should be more movies with the main >> characters a married black couple. Hollywood has it looking like the only >> black couples out there is the Huxtables. >> >> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Keith Johnson > > wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> See, I hear that, but I disagree with this "little by little" method. You >>> mention Tyler perry, well he's become a multi-millionaire by doing "black" >>> movies. Granted, the vast majority of his audience is black people, but >>> that's alright by me. I guess I'm just tired of my people's stories and >>> perceptions and presentations all being filtered and reworked to please >>> another group's desires and likes. I grew up in a home with two black >>> parents, my wife is a black woman, I know lots of black couples who are in >>> love and doing it well. You're really telling me I should just be grateful >>> and patient because someone sees fit to only tell half the story, that I >>> shouldn't find it offensive that in a country where most black people marry >>> black people, the story is shifted just so whites will show up? >>> Sorry, that bothers me. and it really bothers me because the cliche is >>> still the same: black woman gets handed off to men of other races, as has >>> been done for centuries. Do you think white Americans would have been okay >>> had all the early Disney cartoons put Snow White, Cinderella, etc., with >>> non-white men? Nope. >>> >>> At the end of the day, though, it's back to FUBU: For Us, By Us. I guess >>> until more black people pool money and resources and continue to make our >>> own projects, we can't expect truly diverse presentation of our life on the >>> big--or small--screen. >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "Omari Confer" >>> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com >>> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 1:51:26 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >>> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog >>> Directors Address Racial Concerns >>> >>> >>> >>> Keith, >>> >>> Love the comments on the subject. As I was reading your post I was >>> itching to respond. By the end I just have to clap and give you a pat on the >>> back saying.its ok man. >>> >>> Here is another perspective. >>> >>> It is altruistic to think that an all black romantic cast will play to >>> all audiences. >>> >>> Black movies consist of the following: >>> >>> 'Comin up&#
Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
Well, I don't have kids, so I guess i can get away with not paying for it. As I said though, I know lots of sisters with daughters, and many of them are just happy that a black female is playing a romantic lead. And, I guess stuff like "Hitch" doesn't help them to see a problem with that. - Original Message - From: "Mr. Worf" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 4:52:13 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns This reminded me of the discussions that were still going on about afro-american vs african american when I was a kid. Instead of embracing it people wanted to be called afro-american which isn't the correct term because "they didn't want to upset the man" and we should be happy that we can use that name. Taking a page from the civil rights movement, we should boycott disney until they do it right or start making films with black characters and couples in them. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Keith Johnson < keithbjohn...@comcast.net > wrote: And I think that's what concerns me about those who say we should be "grateful", "happy", or "patient" with Disney's half stepping here. How offensive is it to let someone else tell our story and slant it like this in this, would could, for all we know, but the only Disney toon with a black female lead for the next few years. I'd even take, in a pinch, some type of dismissive attitude, or perhaps one of "what do you expect?" But grateful and happy? Sorry! - Original Message - From: mcjennings...@yahoo.com To: "SciFi2" < scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:13:00 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns Hollywood can't do us. They don't KNOW us. If you mean those who grew up Black who are in Hollywood, then I agree with you. But otherwise, WE have to do us. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T >From : "Mr. Worf" Date : Fri, 31 Jul 2009 02:40:55 -0700 To : < scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Subject : Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns I agree. I think that there should be more movies with the main characters a married black couple. Hollywood has it looking like the only black couples out there is the Huxtables. On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Keith Johnson < keithbjohn...@comcast.net > wrote: See, I hear that, but I disagree with this "little by little" method. You mention Tyler perry, well he's become a multi-millionaire by doing "black" movies. Granted, the vast majority of his audience is black people, but that's alright by me. I guess I'm just tired of my people's stories and perceptions and presentations all being filtered and reworked to please another group's desires and likes. I grew up in a home with two black parents, my wife is a black woman, I know lots of black couples who are in love and doing it well. You're really telling me I should just be grateful and patient because someone sees fit to only tell half the story, that I shouldn't find it offensive that in a country where most black people marry black people, the story is shifted just so whites will show up? Sorry, that bothers me. and it really bothers me because the cliche is still the same: black woman gets handed off to men of other races, as has been done for centuries. Do you think white Americans would have been okay had all the early Disney cartoons put Snow White, Cinderella, etc., with non-white men? Nope. At the end of the day, though, it's back to FUBU: For Us, By Us. I guess until more black people pool money and resources and continue to make our own projects, we can't expect truly diverse presentation of our life on the big--or small--screen. ----- Original Message - From: "Omari Confer" < clockwork...@gmail.com > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 1:51:26 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns Keith, Love the comments on the subject. As I was reading your post I was itching to respond. By the end I just have to clap and give you a pat on the back saying.its ok man. Here is another perspective. It is altruistic to think that an all black romantic cast will play to all audiences. Black movies consist of the following: 'Comin up' stories/Hood to Good Black Love mixed with comedy (This excludes Spike Lee movies of course) So creating a
Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
I guess a lot of people don't see the bigger picture. We are not getting our needs met. We need to see more people on screen like ourselves and not the once or twice a year Ma Dere movie or just another black dramadey. This ties back into one of the earlier topics. Hollywood produces tons of films per year. The percentage of those films that are aimed at an African American audience is only about 0.1% (2004 that went up to 5 out out 225 films.) and yet many of us go right out and continue to contribute to Hollywood's coffers. On the flip side there are many films that have African American people in lead and supporting roles but that is not enough. Check out my next post. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Keith Johnson wrote: > > > Well, I don't have kids, so I guess i can get away with not paying for it. > As I said though, I know lots of sisters with daughters, and many of them > are just happy that a black female is playing a romantic lead. And, I guess > stuff like "Hitch" doesn't help them to see a problem with that. > > - Original Message - > From: "Mr. Worf" > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 4:52:13 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog > Directors Address Racial Concerns > > > > This reminded me of the discussions that were still going on about > afro-american vs african american when I was a kid. Instead of embracing it > people wanted to be called afro-american which isn't the correct term > because "they didn't want to upset the man" and we should be happy that we > can use that name. > > Taking a page from the civil rights movement, we should boycott disney > until they do it right or start making films with black characters and > couples in them. > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Keith Johnson > wrote: > >> >> >> And I think that's what concerns me about those who say we should be >> "grateful", "happy", or "patient" with Disney's half stepping here. How >> offensive is it to let someone else tell our story and slant it like this in >> this, would could, for all we know, but the only Disney toon with a black >> female lead for the next few years. >> I'd even take, in a pinch, some type of dismissive attitude, or perhaps >> one of "what do you expect?" But grateful and happy? Sorry! >> >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: mcjennings...@yahoo.com >> To: "SciFi2" >> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:13:00 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog >> Directors Address Racial Concerns >> >> >> >> Hollywood can't do us. They don't KNOW us. If you mean those who grew up >> Black who are in Hollywood, then I agree with you. But otherwise, WE have to >> do us. >> >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T >> >> -- >> *From*: "Mr. Worf" >> *Date*: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 02:40:55 -0700 >> *To*: >> *Subject*: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog >> Directors Address Racial Concerns >> >> >> >> I agree. I think that there should be more movies with the main characters >> a married black couple. Hollywood has it looking like the only black couples >> out there is the Huxtables. >> >> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Keith Johnson > > wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> See, I hear that, but I disagree with this "little by little" method. You >>> mention Tyler perry, well he's become a multi-millionaire by doing "black" >>> movies. Granted, the vast majority of his audience is black people, but >>> that's alright by me. I guess I'm just tired of my people's stories and >>> perceptions and presentations all being filtered and reworked to please >>> another group's desires and likes. I grew up in a home with two black >>> parents, my wife is a black woman, I know lots of black couples who are in >>> love and doing it well. You're really telling me I should just be grateful >>> and patient because someone sees fit to only tell half the story, that I >>> shouldn't find it offensive that in a country where most black people marry >>> black people, the story is shifted just so whites will show up? >>> Sorry, that bothers me. and it really bothers me because the cliche is >>> still the same: black woman gets han
RE: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns
I like your comparisons, sir. Well-said! And the Jewish guys would say, "Benjamin who, honey?" or Did you mis-spell my colon? :o) And you know, even if we give them kudos for their writing ability abouty what they know, don't they always seem to come up with advisors when they need them? Why not a living Black Marine from Iwo Jima? Or a driver on the Red Ball Express? _ From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Worf Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 5:33 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns I'm not picking on them, nor am I homophobic, but they helped to build Hollywood and are part of its foundation. The problem is that the lack of diversity within their writing staff (hollywood as a whole) produces the stereotypes and poor representation of characters. So we get stuff like Ving Rhimes in Kojak instead of Ving Rhimes in Hannibal or we get Will Smith in Independence day instead of Will Smith in the Gen. Benjamin Davis jr. or sr. or Colin Powell story. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Reece Jennings mailto:mcjennings...@yahoo.com> yahoo.com> wrote: Totally agree. LOL at 'gay jewish guys!' _ From: scifino...@yahoogro <mailto:scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com> ups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogro <mailto:scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com> ups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Worf Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 4:47 PM To: scifino...@yahoogro <mailto:scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com> ups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns I think that part of the problem is that the writers are white people from the midwest or gay jewish guys so they are going to really understand black people (or any one else) enough to be able to write about them, so when we do get movies that have characters of color we get these stereotypes. For established actors of color they get parts that are usually a little over the top like Will Smith. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:13 AM, mailto:mcjennings...@yahoo.com> yahoo.com> wrote: Hollywood can't do us. They don't KNOW us. If you mean those who grew up Black who are in Hollywood, then I agree with you. But otherwise, WE have to do us. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T _ From: "Mr. Worf" Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 02:40:55 -0700 To: mailto:scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com> ups.com> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns I agree. I think that there should be more movies with the main characters a married black couple. Hollywood has it looking like the only black couples out there is the Huxtables. On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Keith Johnson mailto:keithbjohn...@comcast.net> comcast.net> wrote: See, I hear that, but I disagree with this "little by little" method. You mention Tyler perry, well he's become a multi-millionaire by doing "black" movies. Granted, the vast majority of his audience is black people, but that's alright by me. I guess I'm just tired of my people's stories and perceptions and presentations all being filtered and reworked to please another group's desires and likes. I grew up in a home with two black parents, my wife is a black woman, I know lots of black couples who are in love and doing it well. You're really telling me I should just be grateful and patient because someone sees fit to only tell half the story, that I shouldn't find it offensive that in a country where most black people marry black people, the story is shifted just so whites will show up? Sorry, that bothers me. and it really bothers me because the cliche is still the same: black woman gets handed off to men of other races, as has been done for centuries. Do you think white Americans would have been okay had all the early Disney cartoons put Snow White, Cinderella, etc., with non-white men? Nope. At the end of the day, though, it's back to FUBU: For Us, By Us. I guess until more black people pool money and resources and continue to make our own projects, we can't expect truly diverse presentation of our life on the big--or small--screen. - Original Message - From: "Omari Confer" mailto:clockwork...@gmail.com> gmail.com> To: scifino...@yahoogro <mailto:scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com> ups.com Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 1:51:26 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] EXCLUSIVE: Disney's The Princess and the Frog Directors Address Racial Concerns Keith, Love the comments on the subject. As I was reading your post I was itching to respond. By the end I just have to clap and give you a pat on the back saying.its ok man. Here is another perspecti
