Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma
Penicillin was created to fight infection from the VD that the troops contracted WW1, but the medical trials for it didn't really get going until the late 1930s. By WW2, they began to make it into a concentrated form to treat infections. STDs took out a lot of troops during WW1 and WW2 before penicillin was released in 1942. I used to work with an old guy that was one of the first people to use it during WW2 for an STD he contracted from a nice girl that he met while on shore leave. It is a part of history that doesn't get mentioned much. There were a lot of posters and films for the troops back then. Here is an interesting link on it: http://www.psywarrior.com/PSYOPVD.html Pics: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_J9eISH0JgC0/SW-dqzH9K6I/Kco/60RmLVrD5ZM/s400/vd.jpg http://womenshealthnews.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/48506_98bd725053.jpg The best for last: http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-nurses/venereal2.htm On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.netwrote: Penicillin is a by-product of warfare? How's that? Yeah, i despair of the species improving significantly anytime soon. I tend to go with the classic Twilight Zone where the aliens jiggered with a few devices and the whole street turned on itself. Or, the one where people think a nuclear war has come, and they all revert to selfishness, fear, and bigotry, trying to crowd into one man's fallout shelter. I fear that we still have a very thin veneer of civilization layered over a thick layer of savagery and barbarism. It takes very little for that to come out: look at the hatred and racism vented during our own Presidential elections. To quote Calvin and Hobbes again, Sometimes I think the best evidence that life exists out there...is that none of it has ever come here. - Original Message - From: Mr. Worf hellomahog...@gmail.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:59:58 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma This planet has been a continuous state of war around the world for at least 10,000 years. We still haven't been able to figure out how to do things without going to war yet in many cases. The worst and most volatile problem is how to blend competing ethnic, political and religious ideologies. There are some good and bad things that have come from being in a war like state. You're using one right now. Many of the modern technologies come from offshoots of war. The internet, cellphone, computer, tv, vcr, xray, penicillin, jet engine etc. The bad is that it has also allowed us to not only kill efficiently, but kill in mass quantities indiscriminately, while at the same time wrecking our environment and doing untold damage to lives. I often think about the Star Trek world. I am having problems seeing us doing anything like that within the next 4-500 years at least. It may become just too expensive if we don't kill ourselves or global warming gets us first. On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.netwrote: You bet. Sad reminder we have so far to go before calling this world post-anything. I hate to feel this way, but I really don't think humanity has progressed ten thousand years in terms of social development and compassion. I sound like a tired old scifi flick, but our technical, military, and self-destructive might continue to outpace our ability to get along. Hope Star Trek is wrong, and we don't need another world war to finally get past our prejudices... - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:37:47 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Thanks for the interesting read. I will pass it on *From:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Keith Johnson *Sent:* Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:06 PM *To:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Sad. I wonder how many Americans know anything about the Roma, outside of what they've seen in movies? *** http://omg.yahoo.com/news/madonna-booed-in-bucharest-for-defending-gypsies/26947?nc BUCHAREST, Romania - At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna http://omg.yahoo.com/celebs/madonna/37. Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies — and the cheers gave way to jeers. The sharp mood change that swept the crowd of 60,000, who had packed a park for Wednesday night's concert, underscores how prejudice against Gypsies remains deeply entrenched across Eastern Europe. Despite long-standing efforts to stamp out
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma
When I was a kid in the early to mid-70's I thought by the 2000's we would be in the Gerald O'Neal universe of orbital cities,and farms.Most of Earth's conflicts would be on the wane etc etc etc. But its clear that unless something drastic happens our future maybe more Mad Max than Star Trek. I think now business must get in the space race because the budget won't allow NASA to venture outward --- On Sat, 8/29/09, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.net wrote: From: Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.net Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, August 29, 2009, 12:09 AM Somewhere in my e-mail archives is along one I wrote about how as a child I looked forward to the world of Star Trek. Or the world of Lost in Space, or of Land of the Giants. Or of any world where technology was superscience, we had talking computers with true AI, spaceships that flew faster than light, bases on the Moon, and of course, flying cars. But sometimes I wonder if our whole path is wrong. That perhaps in trying to create new things to mold and shape our world, we shouldn't spend more time trying to live within it. I'm not naively suggesting that we all go Luddite or Amish, discard clothing and TVs and electricity and commune with Nature. Humans will kill and rape and steal whether we live in grass huts or fancy high rises. But I do sometimes wonder if it would at least help us start down the path to true unity and civilization if we spent more time trying to work with the natural world, instead of focusing on machines and computers. - Original Message - From: Mr. Worf HelloMahogany@ gmail.com To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:59:58 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma This planet has been a continuous state of war around the world for at least 10,000 years. We still haven't been able to figure out how to do things without going to war yet in many cases. The worst and most volatile problem is how to blend competing ethnic, political and religious ideologies. There are some good and bad things that have come from being in a war like state. You're using one right now. Many of the modern technologies come from offshoots of war. The internet, cellphone, computer, tv, vcr, xray, penicillin, jet engine etc. The bad is that it has also allowed us to not only kill efficiently, but kill in mass quantities indiscriminately, while at the same time wrecking our environment and doing untold damage to lives. I often think about the Star Trek world. I am having problems seeing us doing anything like that within the next 4-500 years at least. It may become just too expensive if we don't kill ourselves or global warming gets us first. On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Keith Johnson KeithBJohnson@ comcast.net wrote: You bet. Sad reminder we have so far to go before calling this world post-anything. I hate to feel this way, but I really don't think humanity has progressed ten thousand years in terms of social development and compassion. I sound like a tired old scifi flick, but our technical, military, and self-destructive might continue to outpace our ability to get along. Hope Star Trek is wrong, and we don't need another world war to finally get past our prejudices.. . - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multicultur aladvantage. com To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:37:47 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Thanks for the interesting read. I will pass it on From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:06 PM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Sad. I wonder how many Americans know anything about the Roma, outside of what they've seen in movies? * * * * *** http://omg.yahoo. com/news/ madonna-booed- in-bucharest- for-defending- gypsies/26947? nc BUCHAREST, Romania - At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna. Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies — and the cheers gave way to jeers. The sharp mood change that swept the crowd of 60,000, who had packed a park for Wednesday night's concert, underscores how prejudice against Gypsies remains deeply entrenched across Eastern Europe. Despite long-standing efforts to stamp out rampant bias, human rights advocates say Roma probably suffer more humiliation and endure more discrimination than any other people group on the continent. Sometimes, it can be deadly
RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma
That's an idea worth looking at. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: keithbjohn...@comcast.net Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 04:09:30 + Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Somewhere in my e-mail archives is along one I wrote about how as a child I looked forward to the world of Star Trek. Or the world of Lost in Space, or of Land of the Giants. Or of any world where technology was superscience, we had talking computers with true AI, spaceships that flew faster than light, bases on the Moon, and of course, flying cars. But sometimes I wonder if our whole path is wrong. That perhaps in trying to create new things to mold and shape our world, we shouldn't spend more time trying to live within it. I'm not naively suggesting that we all go Luddite or Amish, discard clothing and TVs and electricity and commune with Nature. Humans will kill and rape and steal whether we live in grass huts or fancy high rises. But I do sometimes wonder if it would at least help us start down the path to true unity and civilization if we spent more time trying to work with the natural world, instead of focusing on machines and computers. - Original Message - From: Mr. Worf hellomahog...@gmail.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:59:58 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma This planet has been a continuous state of war around the world for at least 10,000 years. We still haven't been able to figure out how to do things without going to war yet in many cases. The worst and most volatile problem is how to blend competing ethnic, political and religious ideologies. There are some good and bad things that have come from being in a war like state. You're using one right now. Many of the modern technologies come from offshoots of war. The internet, cellphone, computer, tv, vcr, xray, penicillin, jet engine etc. The bad is that it has also allowed us to not only kill efficiently, but kill in mass quantities indiscriminately, while at the same time wrecking our environment and doing untold damage to lives. I often think about the Star Trek world. I am having problems seeing us doing anything like that within the next 4-500 years at least. It may become just too expensive if we don't kill ourselves or global warming gets us first. On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.net wrote: You bet. Sad reminder we have so far to go before calling this world post-anything. I hate to feel this way, but I really don't think humanity has progressed ten thousand years in terms of social development and compassion. I sound like a tired old scifi flick, but our technical, military, and self-destructive might continue to outpace our ability to get along. Hope Star Trek is wrong, and we don't need another world war to finally get past our prejudices... - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:37:47 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Thanks for the interesting read. I will pass it on From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:06 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Sad. I wonder how many Americans know anything about the Roma, outside of what they've seen in movies? *** http://omg.yahoo.com/news/madonna-booed-in-bucharest-for-defending-gypsies/26947?nc BUCHAREST, Romania - At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna. Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies — and the cheers gave way to jeers. The sharp mood change that swept the crowd of 60,000, who had packed a park for Wednesday night's concert, underscores how prejudice against Gypsies remains deeply entrenched across Eastern Europe. Despite long-standing efforts to stamp out rampant bias, human rights advocates say Roma probably suffer more humiliation and endure more discrimination than any other people group on the continent. Sometimes, it can be deadly: In neighboring Hungary, six Roma have been killed and several wounded in a recent series of apparently racially motivated attacks targeting small countryside
RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma
(standing ovation) If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: keithbjohn...@comcast.net Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 04:05:23 + Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Penicillin is a by-product of warfare? How's that? Yeah, i despair of the species improving significantly anytime soon. I tend to go with the classic Twilight Zone where the aliens jiggered with a few devices and the whole street turned on itself. Or, the one where people think a nuclear war has come, and they all revert to selfishness, fear, and bigotry, trying to crowd into one man's fallout shelter. I fear that we still have a very thin veneer of civilization layered over a thick layer of savagery and barbarism. It takes very little for that to come out: look at the hatred and racism vented during our own Presidential elections. To quote Calvin and Hobbes again, Sometimes I think the best evidence that life exists out there...is that none of it has ever come here. - Original Message - From: Mr. Worf hellomahog...@gmail.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:59:58 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma This planet has been a continuous state of war around the world for at least 10,000 years. We still haven't been able to figure out how to do things without going to war yet in many cases. The worst and most volatile problem is how to blend competing ethnic, political and religious ideologies. There are some good and bad things that have come from being in a war like state. You're using one right now. Many of the modern technologies come from offshoots of war. The internet, cellphone, computer, tv, vcr, xray, penicillin, jet engine etc. The bad is that it has also allowed us to not only kill efficiently, but kill in mass quantities indiscriminately, while at the same time wrecking our environment and doing untold damage to lives. I often think about the Star Trek world. I am having problems seeing us doing anything like that within the next 4-500 years at least. It may become just too expensive if we don't kill ourselves or global warming gets us first. On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.net wrote: You bet. Sad reminder we have so far to go before calling this world post-anything. I hate to feel this way, but I really don't think humanity has progressed ten thousand years in terms of social development and compassion. I sound like a tired old scifi flick, but our technical, military, and self-destructive might continue to outpace our ability to get along. Hope Star Trek is wrong, and we don't need another world war to finally get past our prejudices... - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:37:47 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Thanks for the interesting read. I will pass it on From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:06 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Sad. I wonder how many Americans know anything about the Roma, outside of what they've seen in movies? *** http://omg.yahoo.com/news/madonna-booed-in-bucharest-for-defending-gypsies/26947?nc BUCHAREST, Romania - At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna. Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies — and the cheers gave way to jeers. The sharp mood change that swept the crowd of 60,000, who had packed a park for Wednesday night's concert, underscores how prejudice against Gypsies remains deeply entrenched across Eastern Europe. Despite long-standing efforts to stamp out rampant bias, human rights advocates say Roma probably suffer more humiliation and endure more discrimination than any other people group on the continent. Sometimes, it can be deadly: In neighboring Hungary, six Roma have been killed and several wounded in a recent series of apparently racially motivated attacks targeting small countryside villages predominantly settled by Gypsies. There is generally widespread resentment against Gypsies in Eastern Europe. They have historically been the underdog, Radu Motoc, an official with the Soros
RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma
Humanity has always had the bad habit of fearing/destroying what it doesn't understand. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: keithbjohn...@comcast.net Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 02:16:24 + Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma that bad, huh? Too bad: they are often a very handsome people, with rich things to offer - Original Message - From: George Arterberry brotherfromhow...@yahoo.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 9:54:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma While stationed in Bosnia/Croatia/Hungary I saw the pure hate directed towards them . --- On Fri, 8/28/09, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Martin Baxter truthseeker...@hotmail.com Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma To: SciFiNoir2 scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 8:20 AM Keith, I'll answer you with very little. Humanity=pathetic. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com From: KeithBJohnson@ comcast.net Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 05:05:58 + Subject: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Sad. I wonder how many Americans know anything about the Roma, outside of what they've seen in movies? * * * * *** http://omg.yahoo. com/news/ madonna-booed- in-bucharest- for-defending- gypsies/26947? nc BUCHAREST, Romania - At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna. Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies — and the cheers gave way to jeers. The sharp mood change that swept the crowd of 60,000, who had packed a park for Wednesday night's concert, underscores how prejudice against Gypsies remains deeply entrenched across Eastern Europe. Despite long-standing efforts to stamp out rampant bias, human rights advocates say Roma probably suffer more humiliation and endure more discrimination than any other people group on the continent. Sometimes, it can be deadly: In neighboring Hungary, six Roma have been killed and several wounded in a recent series of apparently racially motivated attacks targeting small countryside villages predominantly settled by Gypsies. There is generally widespread resentment against Gypsies in Eastern Europe. They have historically been the underdog, Radu Motoc, an official with the Soros Foundation Romania, said Thursday. Roma, or Gypsies, are a nomadic ethnic group believed to have their roots in the Indian subcontinent. They live mostly in southern and eastern Europe, but hundreds of thousands have migrated west over the past few decades in search of jobs and better living conditions. Romania has the largest number of Roma in the region. Some say the population could be as high as 2 million, although official data put it at 500,000. Until the 19th century, Romanian Gypsies were slaves, and they've gotten a mixed response ever since: While discrimination is widespread, many East Europeans are enthusiastic about Gypsy music and dance, which they embrace as part of the region's cultural heritage. That explains why the Roma musicians and a dancer who had briefly joined Madonna onstage got enthusiastic applause. And it also may explain why some in the crowd turned on Madonna when she paused during the two-hour show — a stop on her worldwide Sticky and Sweet tour — to touch on their plight. It has been brought to my attention ... that there is a lot of discrimination against Romanies and Gypsies in general in Eastern Europe, she said. It made me feel very sad. Thousands booed and jeered her. A few cheered when she added: We don't believe in discrimination ... we believe in freedom and equal rights for everyone. But she got more boos when she mentioned discrimination against homosexuals and others. I jeered her because it seemed false what she was telling us. What business does she have telling us these things? said Ionut Dinu, 23. Madonna did not react and carried on with her concert, held near the hulking palace of the late communist dictator Nicolae Ceausescu. Her publicist, Liz Rosenberg, said Madonna and other had told her there were cheers as well as jeers. Madonna has been touring with a phenomenal troupe of Roma musicians who made her aware of the discrimination toward them in several countries so she felt compelled to make a brief statement, Rosenberg said
RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma
Thanks for the interesting read. I will pass it on From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:06 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Sad. I wonder how many Americans know anything about the Roma, outside of what they've seen in movies? *** http://omg.yahoo.com/news/madonna-booed-in-bucharest-for-defending-gypsies/26947?nc BUCHAREST, Romania - At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna http://omg.yahoo.com/celebs/madonna/37 . Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies — and the cheers gave way to jeers. The sharp mood change that swept the crowd of 60,000, who had packed a park for Wednesday night's concert, underscores how prejudice against Gypsies remains deeply entrenched across Eastern Europe. Despite long-standing efforts to stamp out rampant bias, human rights advocates say Roma probably suffer more humiliation and endure more discrimination than any other people group on the continent. Sometimes, it can be deadly: In neighboring Hungary, six Roma have been killed and several wounded in a recent series of apparently racially motivated attacks targeting small countryside villages predominantly settled by Gypsies. There is generally widespread resentment against Gypsies in Eastern Europe. They have historically been the underdog, Radu Motoc, an official with the Soros Foundation Romania, said Thursday. Roma, or Gypsies, are a nomadic ethnic group believed to have their roots in the Indian subcontinent. They live mostly in southern and eastern Europe, but hundreds of thousands have migrated west over the past few decades in search of jobs and better living conditions. Romania has the largest number of Roma in the region. Some say the population could be as high as 2 million, although official data put it at 500,000. Until the 19th century, Romanian Gypsies were slaves, and they've gotten a mixed response ever since: While discrimination is widespread, many East Europeans are enthusiastic about Gypsy music and dance, which they embrace as part of the region's cultural heritage. That explains why the Roma musicians and a dancer who had briefly joined Madonna http://omg.yahoo.com/celebs/madonna/37 onstage got enthusiastic applause. And it also may explain why some in the crowd turned on Madonna http://omg.yahoo.com/celebs/madonna/37 when she paused during the two-hour show — a stop on her worldwide Sticky and Sweet tour — to touch on their plight. It has been brought to my attention ... that there is a lot of discrimination against Romanies and Gypsies in general in Eastern Europe, she said. It made me feel very sad. Thousands booed and jeered her. A few cheered when she added: We don't believe in discrimination ... we believe in freedom and equal rights for everyone. But she got more boos when she mentioned discrimination against homosexuals and others. I jeered her because it seemed false what she was telling us. What business does she have telling us these things? said Ionut Dinu, 23. Madonna http://omg.yahoo.com/celebs/madonna/37 did not react and carried on with her concert, held near the hulking palace of the late communist dictator Nicolae Ceausescu. Her publicist, Liz Rosenberg, said Madonna http://omg.yahoo.com/celebs/madonna/37 and other had told her there were cheers as well as jeers. Madonna http://omg.yahoo.com/celebs/madonna/37 has been touring with a phenomenal troupe of Roma musicians who made her aware of the discrimination toward them in several countries so she felt compelled to make a brief statement, Rosenberg said in an e-mail. She will not be issuing a further statement. One Roma musician said the attitude toward Gypsies is contradictory. Romanians watch Gypsy soap operas, they like Gypsy music and go to Gypsy concerts, said Damian Draghici, a Grammy Award-winner who has performed with James Brown http://omg.yahoo.com/celebs/james-brown/791 and Joe Cocker. But there has been a wave of aggression against Roma people in Italy, Hungary and Romania, which shows me something is not OK, he told the AP in an interview. The politicians have to do something about it. People have to be educated not to be prejudiced. All people are equal, and that is the message politicians must give. Nearly one in two of Europe's estimated 12 million Roma claimed to have suffered an act of discrimination over the past 12 months, according to a recent report by the Vienna-based EU Fundamental Rights Agency. The group says Roma face overt discrimination in housing, health care and education. Many do not have official identification, which means they cannot get social benefits, are undereducated and struggle to find decent jobs. Roma
RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma
Keith, I'll answer you with very little. Humanity=pathetic. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: keithbjohn...@comcast.net Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 05:05:58 + Subject: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Sad. I wonder how many Americans know anything about the Roma, outside of what they've seen in movies? *** http://omg.yahoo.com/news/madonna-booed-in-bucharest-for-defending-gypsies/26947?nc BUCHAREST, Romania - At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna. Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies — and the cheers gave way to jeers. The sharp mood change that swept the crowd of 60,000, who had packed a park for Wednesday night's concert, underscores how prejudice against Gypsies remains deeply entrenched across Eastern Europe. Despite long-standing efforts to stamp out rampant bias, human rights advocates say Roma probably suffer more humiliation and endure more discrimination than any other people group on the continent. Sometimes, it can be deadly: In neighboring Hungary, six Roma have been killed and several wounded in a recent series of apparently racially motivated attacks targeting small countryside villages predominantly settled by Gypsies. There is generally widespread resentment against Gypsies in Eastern Europe. They have historically been the underdog, Radu Motoc, an official with the Soros Foundation Romania, said Thursday. Roma, or Gypsies, are a nomadic ethnic group believed to have their roots in the Indian subcontinent. They live mostly in southern and eastern Europe, but hundreds of thousands have migrated west over the past few decades in search of jobs and better living conditions. Romania has the largest number of Roma in the region. Some say the population could be as high as 2 million, although official data put it at 500,000. Until the 19th century, Romanian Gypsies were slaves, and they've gotten a mixed response ever since: While discrimination is widespread, many East Europeans are enthusiastic about Gypsy music and dance, which they embrace as part of the region's cultural heritage. That explains why the Roma musicians and a dancer who had briefly joined Madonna onstage got enthusiastic applause. And it also may explain why some in the crowd turned on Madonna when she paused during the two-hour show — a stop on her worldwide Sticky and Sweet tour — to touch on their plight. It has been brought to my attention ... that there is a lot of discrimination against Romanies and Gypsies in general in Eastern Europe, she said. It made me feel very sad. Thousands booed and jeered her. A few cheered when she added: We don't believe in discrimination ... we believe in freedom and equal rights for everyone. But she got more boos when she mentioned discrimination against homosexuals and others. I jeered her because it seemed false what she was telling us. What business does she have telling us these things? said Ionut Dinu, 23. Madonna did not react and carried on with her concert, held near the hulking palace of the late communist dictator Nicolae Ceausescu. Her publicist, Liz Rosenberg, said Madonna and other had told her there were cheers as well as jeers. Madonna has been touring with a phenomenal troupe of Roma musicians who made her aware of the discrimination toward them in several countries so she felt compelled to make a brief statement, Rosenberg said in an e-mail. She will not be issuing a further statement. One Roma musician said the attitude toward Gypsies is contradictory. Romanians watch Gypsy soap operas, they like Gypsy music and go to Gypsy concerts, said Damian Draghici, a Grammy Award-winner who has performed with James Brown and Joe Cocker. But there has been a wave of aggression against Roma people in Italy, Hungary and Romania, which shows me something is not OK, he told the AP in an interview. The politicians have to do something about it. People have to be educated not to be prejudiced. All people are equal, and that is the message politicians must give. Nearly one in two of Europe's estimated 12 million Roma claimed to have suffered an act of discrimination over the past 12 months, according to a recent report by the Vienna-based EU Fundamental Rights Agency. The group says Roma face overt discrimination in housing, health care and education. Many do not have official identification, which means they cannot get social benefits, are undereducated and struggle to find decent jobs. Roma children are more likely to drop out of school than their peers from other ethnic groups. Many Romanians label Gypsies as thieves,
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma
It's weird, because while I understand what Madonna was trying to do...she's American. From Detroit. I know she changes accents every two years, but the world sees her as American. Going somewhere and talking against discrimination is not exactly going to be received well. America may not have invented discrimination, but as far as the world's concerned, it is the world capital. THIS is what Americans need to be aware of. If nobody is trying to hear MADONNA talk about discrimination...we have a real PR problem overseas. At the same time, This is Madonna. PR QUEEN. Be honest, how many of you even knew she was ON tour? Ya do now. And that's what Madonna does. She gets press. Always has. On Aug 28, 2009, at 2:37 AM, Tracey de Morsella wrote: Thanks for the interesting read. I will pass it on From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:06 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Sad. I wonder how many Americans know anything about the Roma, outside of what they've seen in movies? *** http://omg.yahoo.com/news/madonna-booed-in-bucharest-for-defending- gypsies/26947?nc BUCHAREST, Romania - At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna. Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies — and the cheers gave way to jeers. The sharp mood change that swept the crowd of 60,000, who had packed a park for Wednesday night's concert, underscores how prejudice against Gypsies remains deeply entrenched across Eastern Europe. Despite long-standing efforts to stamp out rampant bias, human rights advocates say Roma probably suffer more humiliation and endure more discrimination than any other people group on the continent. Sometimes, it can be deadly: In neighboring Hungary, six Roma have been killed and several wounded in a recent series of apparently racially motivated attacks targeting small countryside villages predominantly settled by Gypsies. There is generally widespread resentment against Gypsies in Eastern Europe. They have historically been the underdog, Radu Motoc, an official with the Soros Foundation Romania, said Thursday. Roma, or Gypsies, are a nomadic ethnic group believed to have their roots in the Indian subcontinent. They live mostly in southern and eastern Europe, but hundreds of thousands have migrated west over the past few decades in search of jobs and better living conditions. Romania has the largest number of Roma in the region. Some say the population could be as high as 2 million, although official data put it at 500,000. Until the 19th century, Romanian Gypsies were slaves, and they've gotten a mixed response ever since: While discrimination is widespread, many East Europeans are enthusiastic about Gypsy music and dance, which they embrace as part of the region's cultural heritage. That explains why the Roma musicians and a dancer who had briefly joined Madonna onstage got enthusiastic applause. And it also may explain why some in the crowd turned on Madonna when she paused during the two-hour show — a stop on her worldwide Sticky and Sweet tour — to touch on their plight. It has been brought to my attention ... that there is a lot of discrimination against Romanies and Gypsies in general in Eastern Europe, she said. It made me feel very sad. Thousands booed and jeered her. A few cheered when she added: We don't believe in discrimination ... we believe in freedom and equal rights for everyone. But she got more boos when she mentioned discrimination against homosexuals and others. I jeered her because it seemed false what she was telling us. What business does she have telling us these things? said Ionut Dinu, 23. Madonna did not react and carried on with her concert, held near the hulking palace of the late communist dictator Nicolae Ceausescu. Her publicist, Liz Rosenberg, said Madonna and other had told her there were cheers as well as jeers. Madonna has been touring with a phenomenal troupe of Roma musicians who made her aware of the discrimination toward them in several countries so she felt compelled to make a brief statement, Rosenberg said in an e-mail. She will not be issuing a further statement. One Roma musician said the attitude toward Gypsies is contradictory. Romanians watch Gypsy soap operas, they like Gypsy music and go to Gypsy concerts, said Damian Draghici, a Grammy Award-winner who has performed with James Brown and Joe Cocker. But there has been a wave of aggression against Roma people in Italy, Hungary and Romania, which shows me something is not OK, he told the AP in an interview. The politicians have to do something about it.
RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma
While stationed in Bosnia/Croatia/Hungary I saw the pure hate directed towards them . --- On Fri, 8/28/09, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Martin Baxter truthseeker...@hotmail.com Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma To: SciFiNoir2 scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 8:20 AM Keith, I'll answer you with very little. Humanity=pathetic. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com From: KeithBJohnson@ comcast.net Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 05:05:58 + Subject: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Sad. I wonder how many Americans know anything about the Roma, outside of what they've seen in movies? * * * * *** http://omg.yahoo. com/news/ madonna-booed- in-bucharest- for-defending- gypsies/26947? nc BUCHAREST, Romania - At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna. Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies — and the cheers gave way to jeers. The sharp mood change that swept the crowd of 60,000, who had packed a park for Wednesday night's concert, underscores how prejudice against Gypsies remains deeply entrenched across Eastern Europe. Despite long-standing efforts to stamp out rampant bias, human rights advocates say Roma probably suffer more humiliation and endure more discrimination than any other people group on the continent. Sometimes, it can be deadly: In neighboring Hungary, six Roma have been killed and several wounded in a recent series of apparently racially motivated attacks targeting small countryside villages predominantly settled by Gypsies. There is generally widespread resentment against Gypsies in Eastern Europe. They have historically been the underdog, Radu Motoc, an official with the Soros Foundation Romania, said Thursday. Roma, or Gypsies, are a nomadic ethnic group believed to have their roots in the Indian subcontinent. They live mostly in southern and eastern Europe, but hundreds of thousands have migrated west over the past few decades in search of jobs and better living conditions. Romania has the largest number of Roma in the region. Some say the population could be as high as 2 million, although official data put it at 500,000. Until the 19th century, Romanian Gypsies were slaves, and they've gotten a mixed response ever since: While discrimination is widespread, many East Europeans are enthusiastic about Gypsy music and dance, which they embrace as part of the region's cultural heritage. That explains why the Roma musicians and a dancer who had briefly joined Madonna onstage got enthusiastic applause. And it also may explain why some in the crowd turned on Madonna when she paused during the two-hour show — a stop on her worldwide Sticky and Sweet tour — to touch on their plight. It has been brought to my attention ... that there is a lot of discrimination against Romanies and Gypsies in general in Eastern Europe, she said. It made me feel very sad. Thousands booed and jeered her. A few cheered when she added: We don't believe in discrimination ... we believe in freedom and equal rights for everyone. But she got more boos when she mentioned discrimination against homosexuals and others. I jeered her because it seemed false what she was telling us. What business does she have telling us these things? said Ionut Dinu, 23. Madonna did not react and carried on with her concert, held near the hulking palace of the late communist dictator Nicolae Ceausescu. Her publicist, Liz Rosenberg, said Madonna and other had told her there were cheers as well as jeers. Madonna has been touring with a phenomenal troupe of Roma musicians who made her aware of the discrimination toward them in several countries so she felt compelled to make a brief statement, Rosenberg said in an e-mail. She will not be issuing a further statement. One Roma musician said the attitude toward Gypsies is contradictory. Romanians watch Gypsy soap operas, they like Gypsy music and go to Gypsy concerts, said Damian Draghici, a Grammy Award-winner who has performed with James Brown and Joe Cocker. But there has been a wave of aggression against Roma people in Italy, Hungary and Romania, which shows me something is not OK, he told the AP in an interview. The politicians have to do something about it. People have to be educated not to be prejudiced. All people are equal, and that is the message politicians must give. Nearly one in two of Europe's estimated 12 million Roma claimed to have suffered an act of discrimination over the past 12 months, according to a recent report by the Vienna-based EU Fundamental Rights Agency. The group says Roma face overt
RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma
I've seen it first-hand as well, George, when, back in my Salad Daze, I traveled Europe frequently. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: brotherfromhow...@yahoo.com Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:54:51 -0700 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma While stationed in Bosnia/Croatia/Hungary I saw the pure hate directed towards them . --- On Fri, 8/28/09, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Martin Baxter truthseeker...@hotmail.com Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma To: SciFiNoir2 scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 8:20 AM Keith, I'll answer you with very little. Humanity=pathetic. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com From: KeithBJohnson@ comcast.net Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 05:05:58 + Subject: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Sad. I wonder how many Americans know anything about the Roma, outside of what they've seen in movies? * * * * *** http://omg.yahoo. com/news/ madonna-booed- in-bucharest- for-defending- gypsies/26947? nc BUCHAREST, Romania - At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna. Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies — and the cheers gave way to jeers. The sharp mood change that swept the crowd of 60,000, who had packed a park for Wednesday night's concert, underscores how prejudice against Gypsies remains deeply entrenched across Eastern Europe. Despite long-standing efforts to stamp out rampant bias, human rights advocates say Roma probably suffer more humiliation and endure more discrimination than any other people group on the continent. Sometimes, it can be deadly: In neighboring Hungary, six Roma have been killed and several wounded in a recent series of apparently racially motivated attacks targeting small countryside villages predominantly settled by Gypsies. There is generally widespread resentment against Gypsies in Eastern Europe. They have historically been the underdog, Radu Motoc, an official with the Soros Foundation Romania, said Thursday. Roma, or Gypsies, are a nomadic ethnic group believed to have their roots in the Indian subcontinent. They live mostly in southern and eastern Europe, but hundreds of thousands have migrated west over the past few decades in search of jobs and better living conditions. Romania has the largest number of Roma in the region. Some say the population could be as high as 2 million, although official data put it at 500,000. Until the 19th century, Romanian Gypsies were slaves, and they've gotten a mixed response ever since: While discrimination is widespread, many East Europeans are enthusiastic about Gypsy music and dance, which they embrace as part of the region's cultural heritage. That explains why the Roma musicians and a dancer who had briefly joined Madonna onstage got enthusiastic applause. And it also may explain why some in the crowd turned on Madonna when she paused during the two-hour show — a stop on her worldwide Sticky and Sweet tour — to touch on their plight. It has been brought to my attention ... that there is a lot of discrimination against Romanies and Gypsies in general in Eastern Europe, she said. It made me feel very sad. Thousands booed and jeered her. A few cheered when she added: We don't believe in discrimination ... we believe in freedom and equal rights for everyone. But she got more boos when she mentioned discrimination against homosexuals and others. I jeered her because it seemed false what she was telling us. What business does she have telling us these things? said Ionut Dinu, 23. Madonna did not react and carried on with her concert, held near the hulking palace of the late communist dictator Nicolae Ceausescu. Her publicist, Liz Rosenberg, said Madonna and other had told her there were cheers as well as jeers. Madonna has been touring with a phenomenal troupe of Roma musicians who made her aware of the discrimination toward them in several countries so she felt compelled to make a brief statement, Rosenberg said in an e-mail. She will not be issuing a further statement. One Roma musician said the attitude toward Gypsies is contradictory. Romanians watch Gypsy soap operas, they like Gypsy music and go to Gypsy concerts, said Damian Draghici, a Grammy Award-winner who has performed with James Brown and Joe Cocker. But there has been a wave of aggression against Roma people in Italy
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma
You bet. Sad reminder we have so far to go before calling this world post-anything. I hate to feel this way, but I really don't think humanity has progressed ten thousand years in terms of social development and compassion. I sound like a tired old scifi flick, but our technical, military, and self-destructive might continue to outpace our ability to get along. Hope Star Trek is wrong, and we don't need another world war to finally get past our prejudices... - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:37:47 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Thanks for the interesting read. I will pass it on From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:06 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Sad. I wonder how many Americans know anything about the Roma, outside of what they've seen in movies? *** http://omg.yahoo.com/news/madonna-booed-in-bucharest-for-defending-gypsies/26947?nc BUCHAREST, Romania - At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna . Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies — and the cheers gave way to jeers. The sharp mood change that swept the crowd of 60,000, who had packed a park for Wednesday night's concert, underscores how prejudice against Gypsies remains deeply entrenched across Eastern Europe. Despite long-standing efforts to stamp out rampant bias, human rights advocates say Roma probably suffer more humiliation and endure more discrimination than any other people group on the continent. Sometimes, it can be deadly: In neighboring Hungary, six Roma have been killed and several wounded in a recent series of apparently racially motivated attacks targeting small countryside villages predominantly settled by Gypsies. There is generally widespread resentment against Gypsies in Eastern Europe. They have historically been the underdog, Radu Motoc, an official with the Soros Foundation Romania, said Thursday. Roma, or Gypsies, are a nomadic ethnic group believed to have their roots in the Indian subcontinent. They live mostly in southern and eastern Europe, but hundreds of thousands have migrated west over the past few decades in search of jobs and better living conditions. Romania has the largest number of Roma in the region. Some say the population could be as high as 2 million, although official data put it at 500,000. Until the 19th century, Romanian Gypsies were slaves, and they've gotten a mixed response ever since: While discrimination is widespread, many East Europeans are enthusiastic about Gypsy music and dance, which they embrace as part of the region's cultural heritage. That explains why the Roma musicians and a dancer who had briefly joined Madonna onstage got enthusiastic applause. And it also may explain why some in the crowd turned on Madonna when she paused during the two-hour show — a stop on her worldwide Sticky and Sweet tour — to touch on their plight. It has been brought to my attention ... that there is a lot of discrimination against Romanies and Gypsies in general in Eastern Europe, she said. It made me feel very sad. Thousands booed and jeered her. A few cheered when she added: We don't believe in discrimination ... we believe in freedom and equal rights for everyone. But she got more boos when she mentioned discrimination against homosexuals and others. I jeered her because it seemed false what she was telling us. What business does she have telling us these things? said Ionut Dinu, 23. Madonna did not react and carried on with her concert, held near the hulking palace of the late communist dictator Nicolae Ceausescu. Her publicist, Liz Rosenberg, said Madonna and other had told her there were cheers as well as jeers. Madonna has been touring with a phenomenal troupe of Roma musicians who made her aware of the discrimination toward them in several countries so she felt compelled to make a brief statement, Rosenberg said in an e-mail. She will not be issuing a further statement. One Roma musician said the attitude toward Gypsies is contradictory. Romanians watch Gypsy soap operas, they like Gypsy music and go to Gypsy concerts, said Damian Draghici, a Grammy Award-winner who has performed with James Brown and Joe Cocker. But there has been a wave of aggression against Roma people in Italy, Hungary and Romania, which shows me something is not OK, he told the AP in an interview. The politicians have to do something about it. People have to be educated not to be prejudiced. All people
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma
ahar...@earthlink.net Hooray for Madonna for saying the right thing! Amy Keith, the truth is never tired-sounding... unfortunately, in this case. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik -- To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: keithbjohn...@comcast.net Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:57:06 + Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma You bet. Sad reminder we have so far to go before calling this world post-anything. I hate to feel this way, but I really don't think humanity has progressed ten thousand years in terms of social development and compassion. I sound like a tired old scifi flick, but our technical, military, and self-destructive might continue to outpace our ability to get along. Hope Star Trek is wrong, and we don't need another world war to finally get past our prejudices... - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:37:47 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Thanks for the interesting read. I will pass it on From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:06 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Sad. I wonder how many Americans know anything about the Roma, outside of what they've seen in movies? *** http://omg.yahoo.com/news/madonna-booed-in-bucharest-for-defending-gypsies/26947?nc BUCHAREST, Romania - At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna. Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies — and the cheers gave way to jeers. The sharp mood change that swept the crowd of 60,000, who had packed a park for Wednesday night's concert, underscores how prejudice against Gypsies remains deeply entrenched across Eastern Europe. Despite long-standing efforts to stamp out rampant bias, human rights advocates say Roma probably suffer more humiliation and endure more discrimination than any other people group on the continent. Sometimes, it can be deadly: In neighboring Hungary, six Roma have been killed and several wounded in a recent series of apparently racially motivated attacks targeting small countryside villages predominantly settled by Gypsies. There is generally widespread resentment against Gypsies in Eastern Europe. They have historically been the underdog, Radu Motoc, an official with the Soros Foundation Romania, said Thursday. Roma, or Gypsies, are a nomadic ethnic group believed to have their roots in the Indian subcontinent. They live mostly in southern and eastern Europe, but hundreds of thousands have migrated west over the past few decades in search of jobs and better living conditions. Romania has the largest number of Roma in the region. Some say the population could be as high as 2 million, although official data put it at 500,000. Until the 19th century, Romanian Gypsies were slaves, and they've gotten a mixed response ever since: While discrimination is widespread, many East Europeans are enthusiastic about Gypsy music and dance, which they embrace as part of the region's cultural heritage. That explains why the Roma musicians and a dancer who had briefly joined Madonna onstage got enthusiastic applause. And it also may explain why some in the crowd turned on Madonna when she paused during the two-hour show — a stop on her worldwide Sticky and Sweet tour — to touch on their plight. It has been brought to my attention ... that there is a lot of discrimination against Romanies and Gypsies in general in Eastern Europe, she said. It made me feel very sad. Thousands booed and jeered her. A few cheered when she added: We don't believe in discrimination ... we believe in freedom and equal rights for everyone. But she got more boos when she mentioned discrimination against homosexuals and others. I jeered her because it seemed false what she was telling us. What business does she have telling us these things? said Ionut Dinu, 23. Madonna did not react and carried on with her concert, held near the hulking palace of the late communist dictator Nicolae Ceausescu. Her publicist, Liz Rosenberg, said Madonna and other had told her there were cheers as well as jeers. Madonna has been touring with a phenomenal troupe of Roma musicians who made her aware of the discrimination toward them in several countries so she felt compelled
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma
This planet has been a continuous state of war around the world for at least 10,000 years. We still haven't been able to figure out how to do things without going to war yet in many cases. The worst and most volatile problem is how to blend competing ethnic, political and religious ideologies. There are some good and bad things that have come from being in a war like state. You're using one right now. Many of the modern technologies come from offshoots of war. The internet, cellphone, computer, tv, vcr, xray, penicillin, jet engine etc. The bad is that it has also allowed us to not only kill efficiently, but kill in mass quantities indiscriminately, while at the same time wrecking our environment and doing untold damage to lives. I often think about the Star Trek world. I am having problems seeing us doing anything like that within the next 4-500 years at least. It may become just too expensive if we don't kill ourselves or global warming gets us first. On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.netwrote: You bet. Sad reminder we have so far to go before calling this world post-anything. I hate to feel this way, but I really don't think humanity has progressed ten thousand years in terms of social development and compassion. I sound like a tired old scifi flick, but our technical, military, and self-destructive might continue to outpace our ability to get along. Hope Star Trek is wrong, and we don't need another world war to finally get past our prejudices... - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:37:47 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Thanks for the interesting read. I will pass it on *From:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Keith Johnson *Sent:* Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:06 PM *To:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Sad. I wonder how many Americans know anything about the Roma, outside of what they've seen in movies? *** http://omg.yahoo.com/news/madonna-booed-in-bucharest-for-defending-gypsies/26947?nc BUCHAREST, Romania - At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna http://omg.yahoo.com/celebs/madonna/37. Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies — and the cheers gave way to jeers. The sharp mood change that swept the crowd of 60,000, who had packed a park for Wednesday night's concert, underscores how prejudice against Gypsies remains deeply entrenched across Eastern Europe. Despite long-standing efforts to stamp out rampant bias, human rights advocates say Roma probably suffer more humiliation and endure more discrimination than any other people group on the continent. Sometimes, it can be deadly: In neighboring Hungary, six Roma have been killed and several wounded in a recent series of apparently racially motivated attacks targeting small countryside villages predominantly settled by Gypsies. There is generally widespread resentment against Gypsies in Eastern Europe. They have historically been the underdog, Radu Motoc, an official with the Soros Foundation Romania, said Thursday. Roma, or Gypsies, are a nomadic ethnic group believed to have their roots in the Indian subcontinent. They live mostly in southern and eastern Europe, but hundreds of thousands have migrated west over the past few decades in search of jobs and better living conditions. Romania has the largest number of Roma in the region. Some say the population could be as high as 2 million, although official data put it at 500,000. Until the 19th century, Romanian Gypsies were slaves, and they've gotten a mixed response ever since: While discrimination is widespread, many East Europeans are enthusiastic about Gypsy music and dance, which they embrace as part of the region's cultural heritage. That explains why the Roma musicians and a dancer who had briefly joined Madonna http://omg.yahoo.com/celebs/madonna/37 onstage got enthusiastic applause. And it also may explain why some in the crowd turned on Madonnahttp://omg.yahoo.com/celebs/madonna/37when she paused during the two-hour show — a stop on her worldwide Sticky and Sweet tour — to touch on their plight. It has been brought to my attention ... that there is a lot of discrimination against Romanies and Gypsies in general in Eastern Europe, she said. It made me feel very sad. Thousands booed and jeered her. A few cheered when she added: We don't believe in discrimination ... we believe in freedom and equal rights for everyone. But she got more boos when she mentioned discrimination against homosexuals and others
RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma
(standing ovation) If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: hellomahog...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:59:58 -0700 Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma This planet has been a continuous state of war around the world for at least 10,000 years. We still haven't been able to figure out how to do things without going to war yet in many cases. The worst and most volatile problem is how to blend competing ethnic, political and religious ideologies. There are some good and bad things that have come from being in a war like state. You're using one right now. Many of the modern technologies come from offshoots of war. The internet, cellphone, computer, tv, vcr, xray, penicillin, jet engine etc. The bad is that it has also allowed us to not only kill efficiently, but kill in mass quantities indiscriminately, while at the same time wrecking our environment and doing untold damage to lives. I often think about the Star Trek world. I am having problems seeing us doing anything like that within the next 4-500 years at least. It may become just too expensive if we don't kill ourselves or global warming gets us first. On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.net wrote: You bet. Sad reminder we have so far to go before calling this world post-anything. I hate to feel this way, but I really don't think humanity has progressed ten thousand years in terms of social development and compassion. I sound like a tired old scifi flick, but our technical, military, and self-destructive might continue to outpace our ability to get along. Hope Star Trek is wrong, and we don't need another world war to finally get past our prejudices... - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:37:47 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Thanks for the interesting read. I will pass it on From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:06 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Sad. I wonder how many Americans know anything about the Roma, outside of what they've seen in movies? *** http://omg.yahoo.com/news/madonna-booed-in-bucharest-for-defending-gypsies/26947?nc BUCHAREST, Romania - At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna. Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies — and the cheers gave way to jeers. The sharp mood change that swept the crowd of 60,000, who had packed a park for Wednesday night's concert, underscores how prejudice against Gypsies remains deeply entrenched across Eastern Europe. Despite long-standing efforts to stamp out rampant bias, human rights advocates say Roma probably suffer more humiliation and endure more discrimination than any other people group on the continent. Sometimes, it can be deadly: In neighboring Hungary, six Roma have been killed and several wounded in a recent series of apparently racially motivated attacks targeting small countryside villages predominantly settled by Gypsies. There is generally widespread resentment against Gypsies in Eastern Europe. They have historically been the underdog, Radu Motoc, an official with the Soros Foundation Romania, said Thursday. Roma, or Gypsies, are a nomadic ethnic group believed to have their roots in the Indian subcontinent. They live mostly in southern and eastern Europe, but hundreds of thousands have migrated west over the past few decades in search of jobs and better living conditions. Romania has the largest number of Roma in the region. Some say the population could be as high as 2 million, although official data put it at 500,000. Until the 19th century, Romanian Gypsies were slaves, and they've gotten a mixed response ever since: While discrimination is widespread, many East Europeans are enthusiastic about Gypsy music and dance, which they embrace as part of the region's cultural heritage. That explains why the Roma musicians and a dancer who had briefly joined Madonna onstage got enthusiastic applause. And it also may explain why some in the crowd turned on Madonna when she paused during the two-hour show — a stop on her worldwide Sticky and Sweet tour — to touch on their plight. It has been brought to my attention
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma
that bad, huh? Too bad: they are often a very handsome people, with rich things to offer - Original Message - From: George Arterberry brotherfromhow...@yahoo.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 9:54:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma While stationed in Bosnia/Croatia/Hungary I saw the pure hate directed towards them . --- On Fri, 8/28/09, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Martin Baxter truthseeker...@hotmail.com Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma To: SciFiNoir2 scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 8:20 AM Keith, I'll answer you with very little. Humanity=pathetic. If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director? -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com From: KeithBJohnson@ comcast.net Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 05:05:58 + Subject: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Sad. I wonder how many Americans know anything about the Roma, outside of what they've seen in movies? * * * * *** http://omg.yahoo. com/news/ madonna-booed- in-bucharest- for-defending- gypsies/26947? nc BUCHAREST, Romania - At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna . Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies — and the cheers gave way to jeers. The sharp mood change that swept the crowd of 60,000, who had packed a park for Wednesday night's concert, underscores how prejudice against Gypsies remains deeply entrenched across Eastern Europe . Despite long-standing efforts to stamp out rampant bias, human rights advocates say Roma probably suffer more humiliation and endure more discrimination than any other people group on the continent. Sometimes, it can be deadly: In neighboring Hungary , six Roma have been killed and several wounded in a recent series of apparently racially motivated attacks targeting small countryside villages predominantly settled by Gypsies. There is generally widespread resentment against Gypsies in Eastern Europe. They have historically been the underdog, Radu Motoc, an official with the Soros Foundation Romania, said Thursday. Roma, or Gypsies, are a nomadic ethnic group believed to have their roots in the Indian subcontinent . They live mostly in southern and eastern Europe, but hundreds of thousands have migrated west over the past few decades in search of jobs and better living conditions. Romania has the largest number of Roma in the region. Some say the population could be as high as 2 million, although official data put it at 500,000. Until the 19th century , Romanian Gypsies were slaves, and they've gotten a mixed response ever since: While discrimination is widespread, many East Europeans are enthusiastic about Gypsy music and dance, which they embrace as part of the region's cultural heritage. That explains why the Roma musicians and a dancer who had briefly joined Madonna onstage got enthusiastic applause. And it also may explain why some in the crowd turned on Madonna when she paused during the two-hour show — a stop on her worldwide Sticky and Sweet tour — to touch on their plight. It has been brought to my attention ... that there is a lot of discrimination against Romanies and Gypsies in general in Eastern Europe, she said. It made me feel very sad. Thousands booed and jeered her. A few cheered when she added: We don't believe in discrimination ... we believe in freedom and equal rights for everyone. But she got more boos when she mentioned discrimination against homosexuals and others. I jeered her because it seemed false what she was telling us. What business does she have telling us these things? said Ionut Dinu, 23. Madonna did not react and carried on with her concert, held near the hulking palace of the late communist dictator Nicolae Ceausescu. Her publicist, Liz Rosenberg, said Madonna and other had told her there were cheers as well as jeers. Madonna has been touring with a phenomenal troupe of Roma musicians who made her aware of the discrimination toward them in several countries so she felt compelled to make a brief statement, Rosenberg said in an e-mail. She will not be issuing a further statement. One Roma musician said the attitude toward Gypsies is contradictory. Romanians watch Gypsy soap operas, they like Gypsy music and go to Gypsy concerts, said Damian Draghici, a Grammy Award-winner who has performed with James Brown and Joe Cocker . But there has been a wave of aggression against Roma people in Italy, Hungary and Romania , which shows me something is not OK, he told the AP in an interview
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma
Penicillin is a by-product of warfare? How's that? Yeah, i despair of the species improving significantly anytime soon. I tend to go with the classic Twilight Zone where the aliens jiggered with a few devices and the whole street turned on itself. Or, the one where people think a nuclear war has come, and they all revert to selfishness, fear, and bigotry, trying to crowd into one man's fallout shelter. I fear that we still have a very thin veneer of civilization layered over a thick layer of savagery and barbarism. It takes very little for that to come out: look at the hatred and racism vented during our own Presidential elections. To quote Calvin and Hobbes again, Sometimes I think the best evidence that life exists out there...is that none of it has ever come here. - Original Message - From: Mr. Worf hellomahog...@gmail.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:59:58 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma This planet has been a continuous state of war around the world for at least 10,000 years. We still haven't been able to figure out how to do things without going to war yet in many cases. The worst and most volatile problem is how to blend competing ethnic, political and religious ideologies. There are some good and bad things that have come from being in a war like state. You're using one right now. Many of the modern technologies come from offshoots of war. The internet, cellphone, computer, tv, vcr, xray, penicillin, jet engine etc. The bad is that it has also allowed us to not only kill efficiently, but kill in mass quantities indiscriminately, while at the same time wrecking our environment and doing untold damage to lives. I often think about the Star Trek world. I am having problems seeing us doing anything like that within the next 4-500 years at least. It may become just too expensive if we don't kill ourselves or global warming gets us first. On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.net wrote: You bet. Sad reminder we have so far to go before calling this world post-anything. I hate to feel this way, but I really don't think humanity has progressed ten thousand years in terms of social development and compassion. I sound like a tired old scifi flick, but our technical, military, and self-destructive might continue to outpace our ability to get along. Hope Star Trek is wrong, and we don't need another world war to finally get past our prejudices... - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:37:47 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Thanks for the interesting read. I will pass it on From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:06 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Sad. I wonder how many Americans know anything about the Roma, outside of what they've seen in movies? *** http://omg.yahoo.com/news/madonna-booed-in-bucharest-for-defending-gypsies/26947?nc BUCHAREST, Romania - At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna . Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies — and the cheers gave way to jeers. The sharp mood change that swept the crowd of 60,000, who had packed a park for Wednesday night's concert, underscores how prejudice against Gypsies remains deeply entrenched across Eastern Europe. Despite long-standing efforts to stamp out rampant bias, human rights advocates say Roma probably suffer more humiliation and endure more discrimination than any other people group on the continent. Sometimes, it can be deadly: In neighboring Hungary, six Roma have been killed and several wounded in a recent series of apparently racially motivated attacks targeting small countryside villages predominantly settled by Gypsies. There is generally widespread resentment against Gypsies in Eastern Europe. They have historically been the underdog, Radu Motoc, an official with the Soros Foundation Romania, said Thursday. Roma, or Gypsies, are a nomadic ethnic group believed to have their roots in the Indian subcontinent. They live mostly in southern and eastern Europe, but hundreds of thousands have migrated west over the past few decades in search of jobs and better living conditions. Romania has the largest number of Roma in the region. Some say the population could be as high as 2 million, although official data put it at 500,000. Until the 19th century, Romanian
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma
Somewhere in my e-mail archives is along one I wrote about how as a child I looked forward to the world of Star Trek. Or the world of Lost in Space, or of Land of the Giants. Or of any world where technology was superscience, we had talking computers with true AI, spaceships that flew faster than light, bases on the Moon, and of course, flying cars. But sometimes I wonder if our whole path is wrong. That perhaps in trying to create new things to mold and shape our world, we shouldn't spend more time trying to live within it. I'm not naively suggesting that we all go Luddite or Amish, discard clothing and TVs and electricity and commune with Nature. Humans will kill and rape and steal whether we live in grass huts or fancy high rises. But I do sometimes wonder if it would at least help us start down the path to true unity and civilization if we spent more time trying to work with the natural world, instead of focusing on machines and computers. - Original Message - From: Mr. Worf hellomahog...@gmail.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:59:58 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma This planet has been a continuous state of war around the world for at least 10,000 years. We still haven't been able to figure out how to do things without going to war yet in many cases. The worst and most volatile problem is how to blend competing ethnic, political and religious ideologies. There are some good and bad things that have come from being in a war like state. You're using one right now. Many of the modern technologies come from offshoots of war. The internet, cellphone, computer, tv, vcr, xray, penicillin, jet engine etc. The bad is that it has also allowed us to not only kill efficiently, but kill in mass quantities indiscriminately, while at the same time wrecking our environment and doing untold damage to lives. I often think about the Star Trek world. I am having problems seeing us doing anything like that within the next 4-500 years at least. It may become just too expensive if we don't kill ourselves or global warming gets us first. On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Keith Johnson keithbjohn...@comcast.net wrote: You bet. Sad reminder we have so far to go before calling this world post-anything. I hate to feel this way, but I really don't think humanity has progressed ten thousand years in terms of social development and compassion. I sound like a tired old scifi flick, but our technical, military, and self-destructive might continue to outpace our ability to get along. Hope Star Trek is wrong, and we don't need another world war to finally get past our prejudices... - Original Message - From: Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:37:47 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Thanks for the interesting read. I will pass it on From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:06 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] OT: Madonna Booed for Condeming Discrimination Against Roma Sad. I wonder how many Americans know anything about the Roma, outside of what they've seen in movies? *** http://omg.yahoo.com/news/madonna-booed-in-bucharest-for-defending-gypsies/26947?nc BUCHAREST, Romania - At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna . Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies — and the cheers gave way to jeers. The sharp mood change that swept the crowd of 60,000, who had packed a park for Wednesday night's concert, underscores how prejudice against Gypsies remains deeply entrenched across Eastern Europe. Despite long-standing efforts to stamp out rampant bias, human rights advocates say Roma probably suffer more humiliation and endure more discrimination than any other people group on the continent. Sometimes, it can be deadly: In neighboring Hungary, six Roma have been killed and several wounded in a recent series of apparently racially motivated attacks targeting small countryside villages predominantly settled by Gypsies. There is generally widespread resentment against Gypsies in Eastern Europe. They have historically been the underdog, Radu Motoc, an official with the Soros Foundation Romania, said Thursday. Roma, or Gypsies, are a nomadic ethnic group believed to have their roots in the Indian subcontinent. They live mostly in southern and eastern Europe, but hundreds of thousands have migrated west over the past few decades in search of jobs and better living conditions
