Re: [scots-l] For bigheidit Toffs only:
on 11/1/2001 3:00 pm, Derek Hoy at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > David said: >> As it may be. Does not seem to have done Scotland any harm, does it? > > You wouldn't think that if you were on the wrong side of an argument over a > bit of land. I know 2 people who went through hell to buy derelict buildings > that were part of large estates- one was because of the outrageous demands of > the feu superior. The other (Hamish Moore) was to make into small workshops > for a local business. > I can understand that. Roxburghe sold the feus on most their properties in Kelso in the last century, having once been feu superior for almost all the town. That seems to have happened through most of the Borders, with other estates, so that the great majority of ordinary town property is now free of the feu system. As for buying derelict buidings - well, landowners just wouldn't sell on demand here. If someone approached one of the factors and said 'I've seen this old steading and I'd like to buy it' of course they would get ripped off, but more usually they would just get 'not for sale'. With so many of the big Borders estates (Traquair, Buccleuch, Douglas-Home at the Hirsel, Newton Don) converting their old buildings for small workshops for local businesses, and then letting them at very reasonable rates, they tend to be seen as benefactors and not barriers in this respect. We also end up with loads of music, folky sort of days, fairs, drama and things because the landowners either want to do these themselves, or happily let others run them. Obviously it only takes a different attitude on the part of the landowner, maybe prevalent in Highland areas or where they are 'absentee' most of the time, to give a very different impression. I've seen how beneficial the attitudes of landowners who are really part of the local community can be; our ex-daughter-in-law and grandkids were rescued from the (fortunately brief) horrors of Easter Langlee 'housing' in Galashiels by a landowner willing to accept DHSS for a steading cottage, because she was personally known to the owner. I know many other people in a similar situation. That is our local culture, and I may be misjudging the benefits of the auld Scottish system on the strength of the way it works in the Borders. And I also know many people who don't have a good word to say about the 'lairds'... if you ever get a chance to hear the poet Howard Purdie in performance, you'd believe that the Borders is the most feudal, class-ridden and backward society imaginable! David Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] For bigheidit Toffs only:
Stan related: > stuff about sleeping with pigs... This wasn't so unusual in the Olden Days. It's recorded as happening in Leith as a form of heating. A pig is a good choice- rabbits and even sheep are a bit small, but a coo would be too big to get up the stairs. The temptation would be to go for the bacon and eggs for breakfast. Must have been the end of many a relationship. "I'd rather be a chicken than a pig..." Derek Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] For bigheidit Toffs only:
David said: > As it may be. Does not seem to have done Scotland any harm, does it? You wouldn't think that if you were on the wrong side of an argument over a bit of land. I know 2 people who went through hell to buy derelict buildings that were part of large estates- one was because of the outrageous demands of the feu superior. The other (Hamish Moore) was to make into small workshops for a local business. Derek Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
RE: [scots-l] For bigheidit Toffs only:
David Kilpatrick wrote: > A few years ago an elderly bloke came in wanting some DTP work. He was > motorcycle nut - serious vintage stuff - and well liked by our local bikers, > whom he allowed to fill up his country property with all sorts of 'work in > progress'. I ended up doing a load of scans, but because it was for a club > publication didn't really want to charge him a commercial rate. He could > have afforded it - minor Baronet and one of those landowners. So I asked him > if I could have a bale of hay or two for our goats. I imagined he'd get a > couple of small bales dropped off by Land Rover when one of his tenants was > going into town. > > He and his son drove a TRACTOR almost 20 miles with one of the HUGE circular > bales impaled on the prongs. It lasted our goats three years and occupied an > entire garage (you have no idea how big those things are till you get one > inside!). > > I like Scotland - feudal or not. (But what about all the traffic stuck > behind his tractor? you ask - what traffic?). That's probably why he did it - the chance to play havoc with the visitors' nerves! Ian -- IndigoVision Ltd http://www.indigovision.com/ The Edinburgh Technopole, Bush Loan, Edinburgh, EH26 0PJ Tel: [+44] (0)131 475 7200 Fax: [+44] (0)131 475 7201 Personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.scottishdance.net Feed the world: http://www.thehungersite.com/ Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] For bigheidit Toffs only:
Title: Re: [scots-l] For bigheidit Toffs only: on 10/1/2001 11:41 pm, stan reeves at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: NOW 66 landowners own one quarter of Scotlands 19 million acres 120 own one third 343 own one half 1252 own two thirds 40% can trace their family land holding beyond the sixteenth century " in rural Scotland, two thirds of households have incomes below the low pay unit threshold. Rural Scotland has the most concentrated, inequitable pattern of landed property anywhere in Europe. Scotland is the last country in the modern world still to have feudal tenure" (Andy Wightman 1999) As it may be. Does not seem to have done Scotland any harm, does it? When we first came here I was surprised to find that you could be standing behind a Countess in the supermarket queue and not realise it, since no-one makes any real social distinction between 'classes' other than at ceremonial or formal events. I like Scotland. I like being in a place where you never see a suit and tie except behind a bank counter or at a funeral, and where you have to go into Glasgow or Edinburgh to see a girl wearing make-up in the daytime (High School 4th-years and our Gothic community excepted). I'm sure there are exceptions and the cities have class- or wealth-conscious yuppy communities. A few years ago an elderly bloke came in wanting some DTP work. He was motorcycle nut - serious vintage stuff - and well liked by our local bikers, whom he allowed to fill up his country property with all sorts of 'work in progress'. I ended up doing a load of scans, but because it was for a club publication didn't really want to charge him a commercial rate. He could have afforded it - minor Baronet and one of those landowners. So I asked him if I could have a bale of hay or two for our goats. I imagined he'd get a couple of small bales dropped off by Land Rover when one of his tenants was going into town. He and his son drove a TRACTOR almost 20 miles with one of the HUGE circular bales impaled on the prongs. It lasted our goats three years and occupied an entire garage (you have no idea how big those things are till you get one inside!). I like Scotland - feudal or not. (But what about all the traffic stuck behind his tractor? you ask - what traffic?). David
Re: [scots-l] For bigheidit Toffs only:
Title: Re: [scots-l] For bigheidit Toffs only: Well thanks, now I'm well telt.For sure Devine, Young, Smout, Prebble and Hunter never went to the Braveheart School, but dont take my word. The topic for debate might be "The role of the aristocracy in shaping the culture and psychology of the scots" Reading the above fellows might shed some light through the dark glass Perhaps we should sell tickets to this debate? "Light the blue touch paper and retire" Out of all the current repertoires of european Traditional music the Scots has a dispropotionate number of tunes named after members of the aristocracy Why? Coincidence? Does it matter? Its in the past surely! NOW 66 landowners own one quarter of Scotlands 19 million acres 120 own one third 343 own one half 1252 own two thirds 40% can trace their family land holding beyond the sixteenth century " in rural Scotland, two thirds of households have incomes below the low pay unit threshold. Rural Scotland has the most concentrated, inequitable pattern of landed property anywhere in Europe. Scotland is the last country in the modern world still to have feudal tenure" (Andy Wightman 1999) They made a desert and called it peace While we are addressing myths perhaps some tales of the Gardens of just before and around Petries time, might help This firstGarden, Laird of Troup, was a man of note in his day: he accompanied the troops sent by Charles I to Gustavus of Sweden, was present at the battle of Lutsen in 1632, and remained for several years at the Swedish Court, in high favour with Queen Christina. The 4th Garden of Troup was a Member of Parliament for Aberdeenshire from 1768 till 1785. His brother Francis, one of the most whimsical of men, and regarding whom many stories are told, succeeded him. He became a judge of the Court of Session in 1764, taking the title of Lord Gardenstone from the name of the village on his Banffshire property. He bought the estate of Johnston, in Kincardineshire, and, by granting favourable leases largely extended the village of Lawrencekirk.Nothing could be more singular than Lord Gardenstone's strong affection for pigs. To one he was so much attached that he even allowed it to share his bed, and when good feeding and rapid growth made it too cumbersome a bedfellow it was still comfortably lodged in his Lordship's room. During the daytime it followed him about like a dog. A neighbouring farmer had occasion to visit Gardenstone one morning, and was shown into his bedroom. He stumbled in the dark upon some object, from which a loud grunt proceeded, followed by another voice from the direction of the bed, "It's just a bit soo, puir beast, and I laid my breeks ower't to keep it warm a' nicht!" Lord Gardenstone died in 1793 and was succeeded in the possession of Troup by his brother, Peter, who married Katherine Balneaves, a lady who brought to him the property of Campbell of Glenlyon, in Perthshire, a connection that led the Troup family to assume the name of Garden-Campbell and the Campbell arms. So while they may have started as mercinaries the ended up as Toffs sleeping with pigs I hope the glass is clearing I declare a draw and will stop ranting unless provoked -- AY STAN -- >From: Charles Gore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [scots-l] For bigheidit Toffs only: >Date: Wed, Jan 10, 2001, 12:55 pm > > Original written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > Anyone know where Troup is? > Troup head is a headland out into the north sea between Banff and > Fraserburgh on the borders of Banff and Buchan counties. Its the headland > forming the west side of Pennan bay which is where they filmed "Local > Hero". > Perhaps Mrs Garden was having it away with the composer and used to phone > him from there? The next town is Gardenstown, so obviously she was a local > bigheidit toff, who the composer was trying to sook up to in hope of > currying favour and getting a few bob, in the grand auld scots style. It > was > composed by Robert Petrie(1767-1830) of Kirkmicheal not far fae Moulin, > Perthshire. Who are the Gardens? Is Neville one of them? We should be > told!--< > > Now you are going to be told: > There are many who find the Braveheart School of History (that is, > history > seen through a glass, darkly) to be not only insulting to Scotland, but > also > exceedingly tedious, pedling lies which are often far less entertaining > than > the true story (as witness the film "Braveheart and Vomit"). > > Major Alexander Garden bought the lands of Troup in 1654 on his return from > > Sweden (he was a mercenary soldier who fought for Gustavus Adolphus at > the Battle of Lutzen, 1632). He married Betty Strachan of Glenkindy. > Troup i
