Re: [SMW-devel] [Semediawiki-user] Question regarding the policy of freezing SMW 3.0 milestone issues
jQuery maintains presence on a vast majority of sites (of which 84% is
jQuery 1, according to your stats site) largely because it's bundled with
many frameworks and projects, including Wordpress, Microsoft's web
libraries, Bootstrap, and so on, where it's used behind the scenes. But the
weight of existing sites certainly is a factor. It was primarily designed
to address cross-browser Javascript deficiencies and incompatibilities. In
the era of evergreen browsers, polyfills and the vastly improved es6, it's
not nearly as necessary, even if no other library or framework is used
("vanillajs").
This is not to say jQuery isn't an excellent DOM focused library, but the
"coolness" of newer libraries, which assume recent browser features, are
often component focused, are designed to support in-page interactions
including routing, translate to server-side development, and support richer
development environments (though, there's nothing stopping one from using
jQuery with one of these libraries, React in particular is very friendly to
a component-at-a-time approach within a larger app) could make it more
conducive for new devs to also develop SMW, which was the point of my post.
I'm sorry if that was lost, otherwise I was commenting on what it's like
for someone who mainly supports in-browser SMW use who contemplates working
with the 'lower level' platform.
Supporting Javascript on the server side would support this approach. In an
isolated way with just an essential api which could be used on the server
by any Javascript library or framework (including jQuery), it could be a
way to provide a lower bar/alternate to entry for SMW development. I'd be
happy to take that on as a project, if I had enough guidance in connecting
to php/MediaWiki hooks/formulating the essential API, due to the issues
that are the topic of this thread.
David
On Tue, 4 Sep 2018 at 20:08, Yaron Koren wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 12:13 PM david mason <
> vid_semediawiki-de...@zooid.org> wrote:
>
>> However, as Markus
>> identifies, even though I'm a full-stack developer, I really haven't been
>> drawn into PHP, and my perception of it as someone who only works with it
>> a
>> few times a year is it's a heaving mass of legacy and very current
>> approaches, from the required PHP version itself, language features used,
>> the Mediawiki hooks, composer (nothing but trouble when I've used it), all
>> the extensions, and the approach to Javascript (jQuery? in 2018?), as well
>> as the developer culture of MW/SMW with approaches often very different
>> than other developer worlds.
>>
>
> Reading through this, I'm not sure I understand most of it, though I do
> agree with the complaint about Composer. But I thought it was interesting
> to hear that jQuery is now considered somewhat passe. I admit it doesn't
> have the coolness factor of React/Vue/etc., but it's still extremely
> popular - it's currently used on a staggering 97% of all sites that use any
> JS library:
>
> https://w3techs.com/technologies/history_overview/javascript_library
>
> I don't remember how much SMW uses jQuery, but Page Forms uses it
> extensively - as well as using a bunch of other libraries (like Select2)
> that in turn require jQuery, and in some cases jQuery UI.
>
> Interestingly, JS-wise, core MediaWiki is transitioning away from jQuery
> and jQuery UI and toward its own semi-equivalent libraries, OOJS and OOUI,
> which got their start as part of VisualEditor. That's a whole other story,
> and I don't think it has anything to do with the coolness of any of these
> libraries. :) Still, I can't imagine Page Forms switching to those
> libraries, or really anything other than jQuery, any time soon.
>
> -Yaron
>
> --
> WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com
>
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Re: [SMW-devel] Question regarding the policy of freezing SMW 3.0 milestone issues
On Mon, 3 Sep 2018 at 09:58, Markus Krötzsch wrote: > I have asked this questions myself a lot when I was still the person > that got such emails, and I have to admit that I do not have a good > answer. The transition from a super-tiny/one-person dev team to a small > size team (with a plan, and processes, and everything) seems very hard. > I think the natural way is that new devs arrive to help with something, > get increasingly familiar with the code and core, and at some point are > part of a growing team. It seems this is not happening with SMW, and it > would be interesting to know why. Most obviously, PHP/MediaWiki coding > is not super appealing. But it also may have to do with the extension > model of SMW and MW: motivated fresh developers tend to make their own > extension rather than joining another project. > I've been using SMW for quite a long time, including a few current sites. I still find it a standout solution for many settings, bringing together the tools, content development and culture cues of MediaWiki, the incredibly practical and relatively easy to work with Page Forms, the very helpful community, and of course the underlying facility of triple-based data, querying and views and connected perspectives. However, as Markus identifies, even though I'm a full-stack developer, I really haven't been drawn into PHP, and my perception of it as someone who only works with it a few times a year is it's a heaving mass of legacy and very current approaches, from the required PHP version itself, language features used, the Mediawiki hooks, composer (nothing but trouble when I've used it), all the extensions, and the approach to Javascript (jQuery? in 2018?), as well as the developer culture of MW/SMW with approaches often very different than other developer worlds. It would take a lot of dedication and support to become a good MW/SMW developer, but most people (like myself) have to fit our work into other main goals. My approach to manage and enhance sites is often to use /api.php and Javascript (on the command line to manage content, and in the browser to make sites more user friendly), bypassing the general MW/SMW stack. In particular I'm developing frontend enhancements using React, with all the facilities of a current Javascript stack, which in many cases works very well and I'm quite excited about its development. Even though I follow this list, I don't have a very good idea of what's involved in SMW 3.0 and how it would affect projects I support. From a "pain points" perspective, I would dream of a way to integrate on the server using node.js with an essential API to avoid the latency of api.php, do server-side rendering and shared js processing, and introduce new abilities (fine-grained permissions, class validation? j/k). I guess done well that could be a way to inject new life. I would also make the perennial request of understanding how Wikibase fits into all of this, since it is "the fulfillment of the original dream of Semantic MediaWiki" and might be a chance to make the stack more friendly to non-technical people. While I focus on knowledge transfer, most users don't feel comfortable doing data management. After writing this I realize I'm not adding much for the actual developers, but I'll post it anyway to see if the Javascript angle in particular has any interest. David (but not David Schor) -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel
Re: [SMW-devel] [Semediawiki-user] Cargo SMW
I think some kind of survey should be done to see what aspects of the 'semantic web' people are interested in. We all know as a few-year project intended to comprehensively remake the web SW failed, but it has many significant aspects which are important in the long term that SMW purported to support. Two in particular, are the cultivation of properties that can be associated with any object and reliably reused across sites, as well as the ability to query categories (eg query for 'politician' and receive back all mayors, premiers, presidents, etc). I presume Cargo supports these features within an SMW instance. Many users of SMW connect to science and health organizations, which do today use what's now called linked open data, which helps software connect data in a rich way. Using this approach to data continues to be important today to many practitioners. Many people dream about live data reuse across sites without brittle arbitrary data transformation. A major point of departure, and people are going to groan when I bring this up, was SMW+. For political and technical reasons it caused a split in the community and people's attitudes. On the one hand, it included very strong UI features around class and property curation supporting consistency and reuse, and supported or endeavored to support some important features SMW doesn't have today. On the other hand it was unsustainable in relation to main code because of its sometimes rough design as well as its dual open source/commercial nature. This is what I think John is focusing on, trying to recreate SMW+ in an open source way. And at SMWCon Spring 2013 many people seemed interested in this idea. However without mainstream support that's a very difficult project. And I'm sure it's very frustrating to see SW features dropped as a topic altogether. However, as has been pointed out, Yaron has absolutely no reason within this great open source culture to do anything but develop code that suits his purposes and views. He produces and supports an important stack of software, and takes a very reasonable, practical approach to the uses of SMW that works well for many people. I definitely think John overreacted and should apologize. Otherwise, I wonder if this event can be used to make a stronger general product, for example to pull out the important features within SMW that are supported by Cargo and the triplestore, and might in the future support more coherent class development and content curation with front-end tools (which I'd love to work on, but have held back because of perceptions around the base code). Some kind of vision of how Wikipedia/Mediawiki, an SMW site, and WikiData/WikiBase all connect would be an informative project. If a table of connection points and software tests were included it might support a practical way forward for the SMW community. David On 14 January 2015 at 03:40, Krabina Bernhard krab...@kdz.or.at wrote: Dear all, please calm down. No reason to be or feel offended, or to offend. It's better to speak of ones own fears, so here I go: My fears are that - we might loose Yaron as a very important contributor to the SMW ecosystem because he throws his attention now to exclusively to Cargo - that cargo will not be something that can be seamlessly used within SMW and therefore we SMW users can benefit from it, but (as it currently seems) we have to make this either-or-decision. It currently feels like it and it is not a good feeling. But it's certainly not too late for steps in this direction (to see Cargo as an addition to the SMW ecosystem) - many users and developers of SMW will switch to cargo and abandon SMW Again, these are my worries, not my predictions. It might also be the case that Cargo does not get enough attention, will not be maintained enough and will not be there long. Many other very promising extensions have had this kind of fate. Or, for the better, it might turn out that we SMW users can use future versions of cargo or integrate some of its components to something that adds value to SMW. When Wikidata came, the intention was clear: to do the job of providing structured data for wikipiedia. Wikimedia hired some of the core SMW developers team, borrowed code, but also promised to give something back. As SMW is still very alive after/alongside Wikidata, we can see that it worked out fine. Yaron, I think this is where you should clarify: do you see a peaceful coexistens and integration possibilities or is this your start to move away from SMW, trying to promote an alternative to SMW and trying to get others aboard? With Semantic Forms, you did something very important: you hid a great bunch of complexity of SMW from the end user, thus making SMW what it is today, so I wonder why you did not tackle the next usability problems in the same way, but went in the direction of providing an alternative, not an addition to SMW? cheers, Bernhard - Am 13. Jan 2015 um 23:25
Re: [SMW-devel] [Semediawiki-user] smw.org to replace the old Vector skin?
Hi all, Maybe I am running with this, but it would benefit the community to make these efforts generally reusable. I understand SMW is no longer trying to fit into the Wikimedia universe, but it still honours the MW approach of edits and source being human parseable and benefits from ongoing MW enhancements. And using the same skin as Wikipedia immediately lets people know they are on a (real) wiki and certain important functionality will be present. Though generally most people don't know or care, some core editors may; one one project I switched to a decent menu based skin and had to switch back due to outcry. For me I want to help people craft knowledge and having the facilities up front is helpful. On the other hand, MW's skin is pretty uninspiring. But moving away from it means you lose access to the usability initiative and other enhancements that use core MW components. It would be a substantial disadvantage for SMW sites to not be able to easily use these enhancements, and make them harder to maintain. One mitigation could be to lightly adapt the mobile skin. This would solve multiple problems in having a less clunky appearance yet also helping SMW support mobile users. I realize it's political but if there is an objective for the WM organization to work with related efforts, maybe some MW designers could collaborate on this project. As well as fitting into a progression plan with VisualEditor and WikiData, which I know many people are interested in (access control being the other point where SMW can't really compare to peer efforts). Finally, for the sake of efficiency and consistency it would also be good to have the skin share appearance and functionality with the SMW extensions such as semantic forms. And I am among many people who are extending SMW using Javascript and we'd like to be able to connect with existing components as much as possible. If there is an effort to raise funds for this my company could contribute some. Thanks! David On 20 October 2014 04:02, Markus Krötzsch mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org wrote: On 20.10.2014 09:05, Krabina Bernhard wrote: Hi, regardless of the skin used, I think it's worthwile to have a look at some sites we should aim to match regarding their appearance, e. g. http://www.drupal.org/ https://wordpress.org/ http://www.joomla.org/ https://www.atlassian.com/ You are right. We really need to up our game there a little in terms of professional appearance. Looking at these very professional websites (and taking into account how much time it takes to do such a thing properly), we need to think about how to implement this. We do have a number of powerful components available (Chameleon, all the Bootstrap basics, I also have some not-yet-released extra code to use further Bootstrap features on the Wiki), but it will still be work to use that on our site (change table-based layouts on wiki pages; choose fonts, colours, images, and textures; style key elements; redesign site navigation to go with a collapsing menu, ...). How could we best move forward to put this into practice, ideally before the end of this year? Cheers, Markus - Am 17. Okt 2014 um 11:58 schrieb Stephan Gambke s7ep...@gmail.com: Well, I plan to maintain the skin for a while yet, not least because I use it myself. I want to finally release a version 1.0 this weekend. Should have done that a long time ago, but always put it off. There is one major issue left that I want to fix before, which is the un-responsiveness of the navbar. Should not be too hard to do, somebody recently sent me some code I think I can use. :) There are some rough edges left, but they are mostly related to styling of special pages and the like and should be easy to fix (patches welcome). Cheers, Stephan On 17 October 2014 10:40, Markus Krötzsch mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org wrote: Hi, Good idea. Chameleon is great (also because of the nice Bootstrap styling that becomes available on all pages). I am using it right now to build a site (to be published soon). A big advantage with Chameleon is that most customizations happen in CSS or by inserting HTML into the page through configuration files. so there are fewer dependencies on how MW does their skinning in PHP -- assuming that Chameleon is always updated to support this properly. My only concern would be that Chameleon is still classified Beta. It would be good to know if we can hope for future support for this if we switch now. Cheers, Markus On 16.10.2014 19:52, James HK wrote: Hi, I'm calling for some opinions on replacing the old Vector skin on smw.org with something fresh. Stephan in his relentless pursuit of making MediaWiki more usable to non-Wikipedia users created the Chameleon skin [0] which seems more suitable to those who want to use MW/SMW in different environments. SMW no longer tries to be a product that seeks
[SMW-devel] SMWCon is next week!
Semantic MediaWiki Conference (SMWCon) Spring 2014: Call for Participation and final call for contributions The Semantic MediaWiki Conference (SMWCon) Spring 2014 in Montreal [1] is less than a week away (May 21-23). We have an interesting lineup of talks and tutorials, with major themes around the use of wikis in science and hospitals, using Semantic Forms, and developing elements of the Semantic Mediawiki universe, including two sessions on Wikidata. We even have a session on Cirque du Soleil's wiki! About SMWCon SMWCon is a twice-yearly conference that brings together researchers, users, developers and enthusiasts of Semantic MediaWiki and related projects, such as Wikidata. Semantic MediaWiki is a family of extensions to the open-source wiki software MediaWiki (best known for powering Wikipedia) that allow a wiki to store structured data in addition to textual content, thereby, turning a wiki into a flexible, collaborative knowledge repository. Keynote Speaker Markus Krötzsch is our keynote speaker, with the provocative talk Wikidata and what it means for SMW. Program Outline and Late-Breaking Submissions This year, unlike at previous SMWCons, we will have both regular talks and tutorials on the first day, starting Wednesday morning with sessions on wikis and science and tutorials Wednesday afternoon. So please review the preliminary schedule [1] and we hope you can be here for all three days. If you're already signed up for a talk, please let us know if you need a different time slot. We still have room for a few more talks, and will enable lightning talks. You can also bring a poster or demo. For any questions, please contact the program chair at vid at zooid.org. Important Facts Event Dates: May 21st to 23rd 2014 (Wednesday to Friday) Location: Concordia University, Montréal, Canada Conference wiki page: http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/SMWCon_Spring_2014 Conference poster: https://semantic-mediawiki.org/w/images/6/67/Smwcon_spring2014_poster.pdf Participants: Everybody interested in semantic wikis, especially in Semantic MediaWiki, e.g. users, arts and community groups, developers, consultants, business representatives and researchers. Organizing Committee René Witte [General Chair] David Mason [Program Chair] Bahar Sateli [Local Chair] Sponsors Concordia University, Montréal, Canada Faculty of Engineering and Computer Science, Concordia University, Montréal, Canada Registration Registration is open at EventBrite [2]. We hope to see you in vibrant Montreal next week! 1. https://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/SMWCon_Spring_2014 2. http://www.eventbrite.ca/e/smwcon-spring-2014-registration-11160710987 -- Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos. Get unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform available Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free. http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel
[SMW-devel] SMWCon registration and call for contributions
Semantic MediaWiki Conference (SMWCon) Spring 2014: 2nd call for contributions Dear semantic wiki users and developers, Save the dates! SMWCon Spring 2014 will be held at Concordia University this year in the vibrant and culturally-fascinating city of Montréal, from May 21-23. We are inviting you to submit your contributions to assemble the conference program. Registration is now open, with early bird rates applicable until April 30th. About SMWCon This twice-yearly conference brings together researchers, users, developers and enthusiasts of Semantic MediaWiki and related projects, such as Wikidata. Semantic MediaWiki is a family of extensions to the open-source wiki software MediaWiki (best known for powering Wikipedia) that allow a wiki to store structured data in addition to textual content, thereby, turning a wiki into a flexible, collaborative knowledge repository. Keynote Speaker and Invited Talks Markus Krötzsch is our keynote speaker, with the provocative talk Wikidata and what it means for SMW. We will have additional invited talks discussing advanced uses of Semantic Forms, aspects of semantic wikis in healthcare and science settings, as well as using SMW for Open Data. Call for Contributions Attendees, talks and tutorials are shaping up. Tutorials have been proposed around setting up and supporting semantic wikis, bootstrapping wikis with structures, ontologies and vocabularies, and using natural language processing (NLP) systems with wikis. As we are putting together themes and speakers of the upcoming conference, we welcome new contributions from you on the applications and development of semantic wikis (for a list of topics, see below). You can propose your contributions on the conference website in form of regular talks, posters or super-short lightning talks. All submitted proposals will be reviewed and we will do our best to consider your proposal in the conference program. If you've already announced your talk it's now time to expand its description. More tutorials (particularly around Semantic Mediawiki basics) and talks are very welcome to cover the breadth of Semantic MediaWiki applications and users. Please aim to submit your talk or tutorial proposal by May 7, to allow us preparing a first version of the conference program. If you need help setting up either, please contact the program chair at vid at zooid.org Please note that all tutorials and presentations will be video and audio recorded and made available for others after the conference. Important Facts Submission Deadline: May 7 (please contact the program chair if you need to submit later) Event Dates: May 21st to 23rd 2014 (Wednesday to Friday) Location: Concordia University, Montréal, Canada Conference wiki page: http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/SMWCon_Spring_2014 Participants: Everybody interested in semantic wikis, especially in Semantic MediaWiki, e.g. users, developers, consultants, business representatives and researchers. List of Topics Here are some suggested starting points: Specific applications * Applications in science * Applications in business * Other applications such as culture and personal wikis * Open data and government-supported repositories Concepts and development * Evolving semantic wikis into Linked Data platforms * Text Mining and Natural Language Processing for Semantic Wikis * Extending via PHP, Javascript and API-based extensions * Widgets * Interoperability and mashups * Community building, feature wishlists and Semantic MediaWiki's roadmap * Improving user experience * Helping new and experienced users contribute * Modelling complex domains * Access control and security aspects * Multi-lingual and cross-lingual sites Organizing Committee René Witte [General Chair] David Mason [Program Chair] Bahar Sateli [Local Chair] Sponsors Concordia University, Montréal, Canada Faculty of Engineering and Computer Science, Concordia University, Montréal, Canada Registration Registration is now open at [1] with early bird pricing until April 30 for SMWCon May 21 - 23 in Montreal [2]. We hope to see you at SMWCon in Montreal! 1. http://www.eventbrite.ca/e/smwcon-spring-2014-registration-11160710987 2. https://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/SMWCon_Spring_2014 This announcement is also available at https://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/SMWCon_Spring_2014/Second_call -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel
[SMW-devel] SMWCon Spring 2014
Dear semantic wiki users and developers, Save the dates! SMWCon Spring 2014 will be held at Concordia University this year in the vibrant and culturally-fascinating city of Montréal. We are inviting you to submit your contributions to assemble the conference program. This twice-yearly conference brings together researchers, users, developers and enthusiasts of Semantic MediaWiki and related projects, such as Wikidata. Semantic MediaWiki is a family of extensions to the open-source wiki software MediaWiki (best known for powering Wikipedia) that allow a wiki to store structured data in addition to textual content, thereby, turning a wiki into a flexible, collaborative knowledge repository. As we are putting together themes and speakers of the upcoming conference, we welcome new contributions from you on the applications and development of semantic wikis (for a list of topics, see below). You can propose your contributions on the conference website in form of regular talks, posters or super-short lightning talks. All submitted proposals will be reviewed and we will do our best to consider your proposal in the conference program. If you've already announced your talk it's now time to expand its description. Please note that all tutorials and presentations will be video and audio recorded and made available for others after the conference. == Important Facts == * Dates: May 21st to 23rd 2014 (Wednesday to Friday) * Location: Concordia University, Montréal, Canada * Conference wiki page: https://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/SMWCon_Spring_2014 * Participants: Everybody interested in semantic wikis, especially in Semantic MediaWiki, e.g. users, developers, consultants, business representatives and researchers. == List of Topics == Here are some suggested starting points: Specific applications: * Applications in science * Applications in business * Other applications such as culture and personal wikis * Open data and government-supported repositories Concepts and development: * Evolving semantic wikis into Linked Data platforms * Text Mining and Natural Language Processing for Semantic Wikis * Extending via PHP, Javascript and API-based extensions * Widgets * Interoperability and mashups * Community building, feature wishlists and Semantic MediaWiki's roadmap * Improving user experience * Helping new and experienced users contribute * Modelling complex domains * Access control and security aspects * Multi-lingual and cross-lingual sites == Organizing Committee == * René Witte [General Chair] * David Mason [Program Chair] * Bahar Sateli [Local Chair] == Sponsors == Concordia University, Montréal, Canada Faculty of Engineering and Computer Science, Concordia University, Montréal, Canada Please circulate as appropriate. This announcement is available at https://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/SMWCon_Spring_2014/Announcement -- Managing the Performance of Cloud-Based Applications Take advantage of what the Cloud has to offer - Avoid Common Pitfalls. Read the Whitepaper. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=121054471iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel
Re: [SMW-devel] Offline Semantic Forms
another option is to explore something like nobackend (Hoodie). http://nobackend.org/ http://nobackend.org/examples.html the design is to support multiple storage storage 'backends,' one could be added for SMW. https://gist.github.com/gr2m/5463475 David On 5 December 2013 06:13, Neill Mitchell ne...@nlkmitchell.com wrote: Hi Benedikt I think this approach is definitely the way to go for your application. This may be of interest? http://wiki.uniformserver.com/index.php/USB_MediaWiki It installs a portable server and then you can just create your own custom MW/SMW instance to use. Cheers Neill. On 05/12/13 07:11, Benedikt Kämpgen wrote: Hello, We now investigate the possibility to have SMW-on-a-stick. Then, physicians could just start via an .exe file their own version of the online SMW, locally. They can annotate patients and upload RDF exports to the file server. Thanks again for your thoughts. Any advice on getting SMW-on-a-stick and possibly optimising performance would be appreciated. All the best, Benedikt On 11/27/2013 06:57 PM, Benedikt Kämpgen wrote: Hi Yaron, Thanks for your thoughts. really just mean private? It sounds like what you're talking about Private and offline in a sense that the form should be filled in without an internet connection. And if that's the case, maybe the easiest solution is just to have a 2nd wiki, with much more restricted viewing? Yes, but that would basically mean in our context to have a second SMW installed on a local machine (without internet connection) for the physicians. I was hoping to find an easier way to forward a form from SMW to someone else. After a form has been filled in, we somehow need to extract the RDF from it to be stored (securely) in our knowledge base (FTP server). But I guess, this is another problem. Best, Benedikt On 11/26/2013 05:30 PM, Yaron Koren wrote: Hi Benedikt, It could be that there's some wording confusion: by offline, did you really just mean private? It sounds like what you're talking about is people submitting data, via the internet/web, that then gets put into an external server - only one that requires a password to access; as opposed to the usual meaning of offline, meaning something that people can do locally on their computer, without any network connection. And if that's the case, maybe the easiest solution is just to have a 2nd wiki, with much more restricted viewing? -Yaron On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Benedikt Kämpgen benedikt.kaemp...@kit.edu mailto:benedikt.kaemp...@kit.edu wrote: Hi, Bernhard, Yury, Yaron, Neill, thanks for your answers. @Bernhardt: the Push extension is interesting, but probably will not help, here, since no information shall be pushed to the online wiki. @Yury: One important requirement is to have elaborate forms (dropdown, etc.) and a flexible form design. Not sure whether Miga could be easily extended towards this use case. @Yaron: - Would the offline form be just a copy of an online form? If so, doesn't that mean that sensitive patient data *can* get put on the wiki? Ideally, the offline form would provide the same functionality (e.g., autocompletion) than the online form. However, an offline filled-in form will never be stored on SMW but rather be put as-is on a secure file server. The question is, whether as-is actually is possible. Apparently, we are looking for some kind of JavaScript library that allows to offline modify an HTML page with forms and to save the modified HTML page. - If a physician stores data offline, can other physicians ever view it? The current plan is: After offline filling-in a form, the filled-in form will be put on a secure file server. From there it can be downloaded for viewing. - Where would the data be stored - on a single device? Ideally, the offline form could be used on various workstations. When an offline form has been filled in, it is uploaded on a single secure file server. - Would each set of offline data have its own RDF export? That is the crucial point and the reason for using SMW in the first place. The online SMW is used to define properties for patients (e.g., has BMI). An offline form shall now be used to fill in all properties for a patient. An RDF export of the offline form shall use the same properties as introduced by the online form. This way, we have a unique relationship between properties as defined by the online SMW and filled-in properties for a patient in an offline form. Ideally, an RDF export from an offline form would create the
[SMW-devel] dagre graph and seq
While there is discussion of SRF graphs… I hacked in support for dagre https://github.com/cpettitt/dagre graphs — see https://wiki.deflect.ca/wiki/BotnetDBP#Diagram this is a JavaScript implementation of graphviz style rendering. lots of possibilities due to its browser based nature. this implementation uses a small included JavaScript helper https://wiki.deflect.ca/dagre/smw.js and a simple templatehttps://wiki.deflect.ca/mediawiki/index.php?title=Template:Daction=editthat works with inline annotations or queries. It would be nice if this made it into SRF. It doesn't need much PHP support aside from including the JS via resource loader. dagre's renderer is separated, in this case it uses d3 so it could be linked to any d3 SRF implementation. In another instance I added support for JavaScript based sequence diagrams — https://wiki.deflect.ca/wiki/Devopsjs#tab=How maybe this could also be included. David -- DreamFactory - Open Source REST JSON Services for HTML5 Native Apps OAuth, Users, Roles, SQL, NoSQL, BLOB Storage and External API Access Free app hosting. Or install the open source package on any LAMP server. Sign up and see examples for AngularJS, jQuery, Sencha Touch and Native! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63469471iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel
Re: [SMW-devel] The future of the SMW query stores
With regard to ES and data recovery/transactions, if SMW continues to be able to generate this data at any time it doesn't seem to be much of an issue. ES is also horizontally scalable as one of its main features, and supports geo features and advanced search, although graph traversal is manual and commits are near-real-time. I am mainly proposing this for the simplicity of the operators. Asking them to set up, for one SMW instance, MW, MySQL, SMW, ES for MW search at least, and one or two additional stores seems like a lot. I would guess that there are three kinds of SMW users; 1. those happy using it as a flexible self-contained front end built on MW for forms and pages, 2. those who would like to use it for Semantic Web / LOD type purposes (formal ontology design, enforcement, inference, and shared data between sites using web standards), and 3. those who would at least like a solid option/path to 2. For the many members of the community who would benefit from a real focus on an RDF store and schema support, I would clearly support something like Richard's stack, but it might add a lot of complexity to hosting and development. Probably many SMW users now are using inexpensive hosting plans which wouldn't support this broader stack, and as I understand it the current SMW PHP API is not cleanly designed up so it may basically be a reinvention (which could be a good thing but would be disruptive). For myself I work in a mix of applications and am in solidly in camp 3 as a way forward, fwiw. And I can't help but wonder how WikiData fits into the mix. (= David On 16 October 2013 09:48, Richard Banks richard.bank...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Just to add to the conversation, I would also recommend ElasticSearch as a great solution for the search side of things. There are also cases of people using it as the sole data store. However, I believe caution should be taken against such an approach since ES currently doesn't provide much in the way of data recovery or transactions. For this reason, ES is typically deployed in combination with a data storage technology that does support these factors, such as Mongo. ES allows you to define what's known as rivers, and these pull data out of a configured data source and into the index, thus providing the benefits of its powerful search (which is literally insane). In terms of making use of the rich inherent graph structure of the data at the higher level, a GraphDB would make sense as suggested by Joel. One GraphDB that might be worth a look is Titan, which has been developed by the Tinkerpop guys I believe. Its a distributed graph database which also (interestingly) supports ElasticSearch. It also abstracts over many data stores/formats (including RDF) out-of-the-box. ES is a clever move IMO because one of the challenges in graph search is jumping into the graph in the first place, and it looks like they use the ES index to do this. So, you could almost just use Titan for search, get all the benefits of graph traversals etc., and have it manage your ES index too. Regards, Richard -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel
Re: [SMW-devel] The future of the SMW query stores
May I suggest that ElasticSearch is considered instead of MongoDB. ElasticSearch is the index engine of the new MediaWiki Search, so end users won't need to set up and support multiple data stores. Like MongoDB it is a document store that natively uses JSON, and is really easy to set up and run (a .deb is available). It's super easy to work with and since it's based on Lucene incredibly powerful for many operations. I've used both Mongo and ES and definitely prefer the latter. They each have their strengths, MongoDB is more of a key value store, ES is more of a search server (though I'd assert it could do the KV stuff adding very useful search operations and no additional infrastructure if using MW search), in either case this seems like it would be a big win in terms of better structured, more accessible data! David On 15 October 2013 20:08, Jeroen De Dauw jeroended...@gmail.com wrote: Hey, The last release introduced SQLStore3, a partial rewrite of SQLStore2, improving on the performance of its predecessor. That is not the end of the story for the SMW query stores though. This email was prompted by work MWJames is doing in supporting MongoDB \o/ https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/88534/ For a while now, there have been two items on our Roadmap about utilizing new libraries I created for the Wikidata project, that are both based on, and usable by, SMW components. * https://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Roadmap#Make_use_of_DataValues_library * https://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Roadmap#Make_use_of_Ask_library There now is a third such component, which might enable us to get a nice improvement to our SQLStore without all to much effort. I described this here: https://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikibase_QueryEngine This is still quite far off, assuming no one else jumps on it, given that it requires the earlier two items to be finished first. Feedback on the idea is however welcome. And awareness of these preliminary plans, or rather possibilities (I'm not committed to doing this at this point), is good for those doing or planning to do something related to the SMW storage infrastructure. Cheers -- Jeroen De Dauw http://www.bn2vs.com Don't panic. Don't be evil. ~=[,,_,,]:3 -- -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135031iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel
Re: [SMW-devel] Webinar for amateur SMW programmers
I would like to suggest that unit/functional/integration tests would be the best solution for this. I know it's not easy to get into a testing culture, but various projects including parts of SMW are adopting this. It solves these problems: 1. provides clear examples of how to do things using SMW without having to wade through conversations that may have outdated information 2. validates the current functionality of those examples, which is a huge issue with constantly changing code 3. provides a way to reliably migrate code bases to a more self contained state 4. provides a way to know which extensions will work with current releases of SMW past eyeballing and is also very useful for fine grained performance analysis. I'd suggest that beginners working with experts should be encouraged to create tests as a way to understand the current code base, and that running tests suites should be a standard activity in releases. Jenkins and Travis (hosted) are two continuous integration platforms. Here's a good summary of different types of tests: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4904096/whats-the-difference-between-unit-functional-acceptance-and-integration-test ideally all will be represented, but in a worse case mid level common case integration tests would be very helpful. David On 9 May 2013 13:08, Yury Katkov katkov.ju...@gmail.com wrote: (I've changed the subject name. See previous e-mails if you need a context.) *PROBLEM*: Nobody understand how SMW works and how to inprove it, except 2-4 core developers. The documentation of the code is not sufficient for a new deloper to quickly start participating in SMW development. *GOAL*: Eliminate the barriers that hinder new developers from participation. Create the documentation for the programmers but waste minimum of core developers' time. *IDEA*: Organize a hangout/webinar where the gurus describe the basic concepts in the code, relations between the main classes in SMW and ways to implement the common use cases of improving SMW. *PLANNED RESULTS: * 1) videorecord of the webinar 2) Architechture Guide improved by webinar participants 3) Some howtos on how to solve real problems in SMW. I think we can create a wikipage of the topics that can be discussed on such webinar. This can also be used in SMW tutorials on the next SMWCon. - Yury Katkov, WikiVote On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Jeroen De Dauw jeroended...@gmail.comwrote: Hey, Maybe smth like webinars or google hangouts with core developers could be an option? I understand that it's easier to describe the architecture verbally than to write a guide. I'm volunteering to do the technical writing job, I think I know at least two more developers who also can help with writing down. I'd be happy to join such a hangout. Cheers -- Jeroen De Dauw http://www.bn2vs.com Don't panic. Don't be evil. -- -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may___ Semediawiki-devel mailing list Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel
