Re: SD Need Help on the Top End

2004-11-20 Thread Barry Goodall
 Just inside of the #5 Cap (normally covered by the valve cover there is a
 pretty good stream of oil shooting strait up (about a foot).
 It seems like the oil is coming from the squirter area and then shooting
 strait up as opposed to towards the cam (possibly starting toward the cam
then
 hitting the lip of the cam and turning upward)

The squirters are supposed to direct the stream towards the cam lobe /
follower junction area.  On later heads that came with roller cams, the
squirters were eliminated as there was sufficient oiling for roller
followers without them.  However, there is nothing wrong with having them.

If the oil stream from the squirter is going someplace other than the lobe /
follower area, then there is either dirt or other foriegn substance in the
hole, or there may be a distortion in the way the squirter was cut.   Since
this is cap #5 and that is on the end, and it is the end ones that gets the
anaerobic sealant applied to prevent leakage, there may be a small piece of
the sealant in there misdirecting the stream.  While it is wrong, since
you are using a roller cam  followers, it is not something that should
cause a problem.

 All of the other squirters are spraying away and the oil pressure (using
the
 dash gauge is fine).

 Also all of the lifters are hard as rocks and show no signs of breaking
down.
 Although, I have not found any formal way of testing and you really cannot
 remove them at full temp.

One thing that has come up in discussion before though is the lifters or
lash adjusters.  Folks commonly buy the MP anti pump-up race lash adjusters.
Often because they find new stock ones at the dealer are far more expensive
than the MP units.  However those lifters were developed for race cars that
are used on a track only (road racing).

Road racing engines at the time used (and many still do) a straight weight
race oil like a 50w.  With stock lifters they would pump up at high rpm
because the stock lifters were designed with clearances to use a lighter
multi-viscosity oil, like a 10w30.  So Mopar brought out a set of lifters
that had slightly more clearance so they would not pump up with a 50w oil.
If those lifters are used in a street engine which uses a thinner oil, there
may be noise issues.  Some folks have a problem with them and some haven't.
But the MP lifters were never designed to be used with a thinner
multi-viscosity oil like a 10w30 or, as you use, a 5w30.

So if you are using the MP race lifters and having valve train noise
problems (especially once the engine gets hot) switching to stock lifters
should fix it.   There is no difference between the stock lash adjusters
used with slider cams and the ones for roller cams.

Barry Goodall
Shelby Dodge Auto Club - - Visit our website at www.sdac.org

Now accepting PayPal for online membership!!


_

---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING
Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/

To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html


SD Need Help on the Top End

2004-11-19 Thread Mfpriv
I have just finished the fourth rebuild of my originally owned '85 Shelby 
Charger and have some concerns on the oiling and related valve train noise.

The bottom end is an '89 Common Block 2.2 TII w/forged Venola's
The top end is my original 287 bathtub head (non-OSJ), caps (w/oil 
squirters), the '89 Roller Cam, lifters and followers. Also late model seal 
plug.

History of Symptoms:
First 250 miles (10-20 miles at a time) I ran Castrol 5w/30 (temp, oil 
pressure fine all the way). While I of course stayed out of the boost you could 
tell 
it was not right.
Encountered Turbo bearing  turbine oil seal failure at around 300 miles. 
Rebuilt the turbo (did not appear oil related).
Changed oil, again going with the 5w/30, ran it 250 more miles boost was 
stronger than ever (no I did not even try to get in it yet).
Decided all was going pretty good so I changed the oil again (same 5w/30) and 
went for a little longer drive about 100 miles strait up. All was fine until 
the lifter noise began.
I killed it, let it cool and restarted it an all was fine again. After about 
15-20 minutes of driving the noise returns. It begins soft then gets louder. I 
am shutting it down before it gets to point of being real obvious.
It is almost as if one or possibly two of the lifters are collapsing.

I removed the valve cover, built a shield to try and keep oil from going 
everywhere and cranked it.

Just inside of the #5 Cap (normally covered by the valve cover there is a 
pretty good stream of oil shooting strait up (about a foot).
It seems like the oil is coming from the squirter area and then shooting 
strait up as opposed to towards the cam (possibly starting toward the cam then 
hitting the lip of the cam and turning upward)
All of the other squirters are spraying away and the oil pressure (using the 
dash gauge is fine).

Also all of the lifters are hard as rocks and show no signs of breaking down. 
Although, I have not found any formal way of testing and you really cannot 
remove them at full temp.

The Bearing Journal OD on the roller camshaft is 1.3761 which is identical to 
that of the slider cam.

So my question is the stream on #5 normal? If not what are the possible 
reasons. Going through all of my vintage stuff I can only detect a slight lip 
or 
bevel on pre-plug type seals vs. plug versions.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Mike
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING
Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/

To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html