Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run "Sikuli On Virtual Machines"
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 RaiMan posted a new comment: I do not have any experience with that, sorry -- You received this question notification because your team Sikuli Drivers is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run "Sikuli On Virtual Machines"
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 Rocky posted a new comment: @RaiMan , can you please advise ? -- You received this question notification because your team Sikuli Drivers is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run "Sikuli On Virtual Machines"
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 Rocky posted a new comment: Hi, I have a remote machine R where i have scheduled a few automated runs using sikuli . Issue: My script starts at the decided time on R but as soon the code flow come at reading UI element/search image pattern , the sikuli script does nothing. it stales completely so the only way i am able to run it is by opening up "mstsc R" on my workstation and then keep that mstsc window open . Can someone please advise on this ? Thanks in advance. -- You received this question notification because your team Sikuli Drivers is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run "Sikuli On Virtual Machines"
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 RaiMan posted a new comment: @daluu Thanks for the pointer. I will have a look at it and probably support it in SikuliX version 2. -- You received this question notification because your team Sikuli Drivers is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run "Sikuli On Virtual Machines"
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 daluu posted a new comment: I came across this post a while back, forgot to mention here. Might be useful for those using Sikuli remotely with Remote Desktop: http://www.allianceglobalservices.com/blog/executing-automation-suite- on-disconnectedlocked-machines -- You received this question notification because your team Sikuli Drivers is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run "Sikuli On Virtual Machines"
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 RaiMan posted a new comment: @David The "remote server" feature is 1.0.1 only. The new server is experimental and information about is on http://sikulix.com/support (sorry for the typo before) -- You received this question notification because your team Sikuli Drivers is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run "Sikuli On Virtual Machines"
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 David ENJOLRAS posted a new comment: > --- in version 1.1.0 there is a new VNC solution ... > ... but this is not yet stable and under investigation () Do you have update on this ? I have not found any doc :-( >--- the remote server feature in 1.1.0 (setup option 5) ... >... can be used from the script level as well. Same question, I'm interested on this ! -- You received this question notification because your team Sikuli Drivers is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run "Sikuli On Virtual Machines"
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 David ENJOLRAS posted a new comment: @RaiMan, sorry, I didn't understand your answer for help about "--- the remote server feature in 1.1.0 (setup option 5) ..." Actual 1.1.0 setup have 3 options. Does the "remote server" is deprecated ? -- You received this question notification because your team Sikuli Drivers is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run "Sikuli On Virtual Machines"
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 RaiMan posted a new comment: @David --- VNC no docs - you have to look into the sources. Sorry, but it is a contribution and I cannot help you. --- run server see http://sikuli.com/support -- You received this question notification because your team Sikuli Drivers is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run Sikuli On Virtual Machines
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 RaiMan posted a new comment: @Andy --- the VNC solution with RC3 is not supported any more. So you might have to live with the sources. --- in version 1.1.0 there is a new VNC solution ... ... but this is not yet stable and under investigation () --- the remote server feature in 1.1.0 (setup option 5) ... ... can be used from the script level as well. I will add some info to the docs. meanwhile you have to look into the sources here as well. -- You received this question notification because you are a member of Sikuli Drivers, which is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run Sikuli On Virtual Machines
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 Andy Funk posted a new comment: Hi, I just ran across SikuliX and I am having fun playing around with creating scripts in the IDE for automating tasks. I am wondering about the possibility of using this over VNC or other remote connections and although I see a lot of relevant discussion I can't find any concrete examples. I found this snippet of script on github but it doesn't seem to work in the IDE: https://github.com/sikuli/sikuli/blob/develop/README.md I get an error that the screen object has no connectVNC attribute. Is something like this still supported? I also understand that the new version has a remote server implementation in Java (previous post). Is there also an API for accessing this functionality in the scripts that I can create in the IDE? I couldn't find anything in the documentation. Or am I asking the wrong questions? Thanks! Andy -- You received this question notification because you are a member of Sikuli Drivers, which is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run Sikuli On Virtual Machines
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 Assignee: None = RaiMan -- You received this question notification because you are a member of Sikuli Drivers, which is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run Sikuli On Virtual Machines
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 RaiMan posted a new comment: Interesting, but as already mentioned: I have no experience with this. I will give you a note, when the version 1.1.0-Beta1 is available: It contains a simple remote solution, that allows to run a script on one machine, while using screen, keyboard and mouse on another machine reachable via TCP/IP. -- You received this question notification because you are a member of Sikuli Drivers, which is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run Sikuli On Virtual Machines
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 RaiMan posted a new comment: @Bogdan Not yet really contained in my know-how-basket ;-) but googling with sikuli jenkins reveals 90.000+ entries ;-) -- You received this question notification because you are a member of Sikuli Drivers, which is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run Sikuli On Virtual Machines
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 BobotzZz posted a new comment: Hi and thanks for replying, I have searched the www and I have found many posts with Sikuli and Jenkins, but all are pointing to questions without answers (and this problem kind of passes over this integration problem)... So far I have learned that if I connect trough RDC (in Remote Desktop Services Manager) the session is RDP-Tcp#0 and if I connect through VNC it is Console. Now when the session is linked to the Console, my Sikuli (1.0.1, java version 1.6.0_33) test also fails. I have tried this from Jenkins (using tscon [sessionID] /dest:console) and from TightVNC (connecting directly, seeing the session is console, running SikuliIDE and starting the tests), both times Sikuli fails in finding... Is there any way making Sikuli work in a console Session? -- You received this question notification because you are a member of Sikuli Drivers, which is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run Sikuli On Virtual Machines
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 BobotzZz posted a new comment: Hi all, I find it impossible to run SikuliX tests (on a website opened in IE) through Jenkins on a RDC: I have the test scripted on the machine (B - win server) and when running them with the RDC open (connected from A - win 7) all works good, but if I close RDC and start the tests from Jenkins (bash command: runScript.cmd -r ) SikuliX is unable to find anything on the screen. I also tried installing TightVNC and oppening a session to B with it, but the error in jenkins is the same (FindFaied - as if the screen in black). Can somebody explain how to fix this, so that I will be able to run tests from anywhere through Jenkins (and without having access (or opening a RDC) to the machine (B) that holds the tests)? -- You received this question notification because you are a member of Sikuli Drivers, which is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run Sikuli On Virtual Machines
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 Costas Skarakis posted a new comment: This is an old thread, but I think this is the correct place to post this. The following links are from another tool but they are about running tests using Remote Desktop and apply to all GUI automation: http://support.smartbear.com/viewarticle/27110/ http://support.smartbear.com/viewarticle/30217/ http://support.smartbear.com/viewarticle/27448/ -- You received this question notification because you are a member of Sikuli Drivers, which is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run Sikuli On Virtual Machines
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 RaiMan posted a new comment: --- sending keystrokes is probably a better option That is ok If you use a keystroke (combination), that does not do anything to the foreground application and does the keep-alaive job. I think, moving the mouse just one pixel usually does not harm much. --- should check if system is idle I do not think, that this is needed in this case of a keep-alive-task, since the resource usage is minimal. Genrally, this approach can be optimized: - self adjustment based on evaluation of the current timers for screensaver/sleep mode - tracking mouse movement, to find out wether something needs to be done at all - ... -- You received this question notification because you are a member of Sikuli Drivers, which is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run Sikuli On Virtual Machines
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 RaiMan posted a new comment: @ anmol --- now what i have done is made a c++ program that will move the mouse pointer ... This could have been done in in the Sikuli script itself using sub processing or with standalone script, running in parallel. -- You received this question notification because you are a member of Sikuli Drivers, which is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run Sikuli On Virtual Machines
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 RaiMan posted a new comment: Sorry, forgot to mention: only for demo purposes. For real life, this would be enough: off = 1 while True: current = Env.getMouseLocation() x = current.x wait(30) # or whatever needed off *= -1 go = current.offset(off, 0) hover(go) But to end it, you have to kill the process. -- You received this question notification because you are a member of Sikuli Drivers, which is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run Sikuli On Virtual Machines
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 daluu posted a new comment: btw, my previous post was regarding any such background keep-alive automation, wasn't specific to Sikuli doing that. I would think a good background process that does such keep alive should check if system is idle and only perform action when idle, not while some automated test is running. how to do that I don't know... -- You received this question notification because you are a member of Sikuli Drivers, which is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run Sikuli On Virtual Machines
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 daluu posted a new comment: now that I think about this... wait() is in seconds right? As demo is fine, but for deployment should have a longer wait/sleep like min of 5 or 10 minutes up to an hour. If the background Sikuli script runs often then it may become CPU intensive. Also sending keystrokes is probably a better option as mouse movements might hijack whatever automation is being run, if there are parallel tasks. Less conflict with keystrokes, although it may still interfere. -- You received this question notification because you are a member of Sikuli Drivers, which is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run Sikuli On Virtual Machines
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 daluu posted a new comment: what exact issues are you having with VNC server viewer/client setup? Perhaps you can work something out with IT to use a specific port for VNC. It defaults at 5900 for the server. Or maybe tunnel through an accepted port like 80, etc. though I've never tried VNC tunneling, say over SSH or something else. Also, if issue is with security, here are a few things to consider: * can set VNC password to prevent unauthorized access. Free versions are not encrypted within the VNC protocol, I think. If need higher security, then buy the commercial versions. But even without encryption, the password will block off simple attempts at VNC hacking corporate machines. If the hacker managed to try sniffing your network for unecrypted passwords, then your network is already compromised, even if they didn't find any passwords. * VNC is still decently secure as long as you run the machines within corporate network, not accessible externally. Therefore, to access them outside like working from home, you still need to VPN in. * you could also secure down the test machines so even if hacked, limit the damage, like machines have restricted or no network fileshare access (besides HTTP web browsing). And if VNC setup issue is with Windows Vista or newer OS, you may need to use specific software like UltraVNC or TightVNC. RealVNC freeware version doesn't seem to work with Windows 7, etc. And why are you using TeamViewer? Is Microsoft RDP not working well enough for you? RDP will work fine as long as you keep the RDP window open and not close it. Though I still prefer VNC because you can close it and automation still runs. I would say VNC should be your solution, you just need to get IT to agree to it somehow. Or live with the limitations of TeamViewer and RDP (keep session open, time limit, etc.) -- You received this question notification because you are a member of Sikuli Drivers, which is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run Sikuli On Virtual Machines
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 anmol_bagga10 posted a new comment: ha ha.. u got me.. We are using window 7 on our machines , and the VM's os is windows server 2008.. most of the ports except some(8080 on which we are running fitnesse server) are blocked.. why we arent using RDP, because the VM gets locked and we cant run our test from anywhere, except the computer thru which we have taken RDP. why we are using teamviewer because , then we can run our test from anywhere as the VM is running fitness server(on port 8080 , web service)... we can just use the ip+port and run our test from any machine!! now what i have done is made a c++ program that will move the mouse pointer a pixel to its left after every 15 second.. and found a software that will generate keyboard press after every 59 second.. its name is caffeine!! and extended the session to almost indefinite period.. Thanks My problem is solved... -- You received this question notification because you are a member of Sikuli Drivers, which is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run Sikuli On Virtual Machines
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 Status: Open = Solved anmol_bagga10 confirmed that the question is solved: ha ha.. u got me.. We are using window 7 on our machines , and the VM's os is windows server 2008.. most of the ports except some(8080 on which we are running fitnesse server) are blocked.. why we arent using RDP, because the VM gets locked and we cant run our test from anywhere, except the computer thru which we have taken RDP. why we are using teamviewer because , then we can run our test from anywhere as the VM is running fitness server(on port 8080 , web service)... we can just use the ip+port and run our test from any machine!! now what i have done is made a c++ program that will move the mouse pointer a pixel to its left after every 15 second.. and found a software that will generate keyboard press after every 59 second.. its name is caffeine!! and extended the session to almost indefinite period.. Thanks My problem is solved... -- You received this question notification because you are a member of Sikuli Drivers, which is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run Sikuli On Virtual Machines
Question #185791 on Sikuli changed: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 daluu posted a new comment: anmol_bagga10, can you elaborate on a few things: * do you keep TeamViewer open all the time or you connect and disconnect at times same way as with VNC? * what port then does TeamViewer run on? Or I assume it also uses RDP and same ports. I would also like to point out that you can run from anywhere using standard RDP provided the following: * always connect to console session 0, either with RDP or mstsc.exe command line parameter /admin or /console exact parameter depends on version of RDP client and the OS connecting to. You can tell which session by checking under Task Manager users tab, displaying column for session ID. * on client OSes, you will always get console session 0 (Win XP, and I think Vista and Win 7). On server OSes (2003, 2008), they give you free 3 user terminal server license. Hence when RDP'ing to a server OS, you will by default use session 1 or session 2. But there is always a session 0 (the head or desktop of server), that you can access via the parameter mentioned. Session 1 and 2 are virtual terminal server sessions. With that in mind, if you connect to server A from machine B using session 0, you can disconnect and reconnect to same session 0 from machine C. That won't work if you connected via session 1 or 2, which are tied to client machine that did RDP. Session 0 is not as it is always the head/desktop. But unlike VNC, on disconnect of RDP, you get locked, because unlike VNC, physical desktop is not shared with RDP session is either/or, but VNC can use physical desktop and VNC session at same time (though not desirable as you be like fighting for mouse and keyboard). Monitor-wise VNC works like a splitter mirroring your desktop to a remote client unlike RDP. -- You received this question notification because you are a member of Sikuli Drivers, which is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Sikuli-driver] [Question #185791]: How to run Sikuli On Virtual Machines
New question #185791 on Sikuli: https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/185791 I know this questions has been asked 10 times.. but i am not satisfied with the answer.. we are using selenium-web driver and fitness testing framework. we have used sikuli extensively to automate flash content that is present in our application. when we run it on our end , it runs very fine. but when we deploy the code(using rdp) to another system which has a static ip but is a virtual machine they work fine (till we dont release the RDP) , but when we release the RDP, they fail... i tried team viewer also , but teamviewer does not capture the screen when RDP is minimised or RDP is disconnected.. but when i open the RDP , teamviewer captures the screen!! 1) virtual machines have screens or not as i think sikuli is dependent on top layer of screen.. !! ---because when we lock the screen , scripts fail.. --- i have tried switching off monitor, but scripts run well.. -- i removed the monitor from the system, sikuli scripts run!! so i think sikuli is independent of the monitor!!! 2) is there any way we can run our tests on virtual machine, without taking RDP!!! please show me some light!! thanks Anmol Bagga You received this question notification because you are a member of Sikuli Drivers, which is an answer contact for Sikuli. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver Post to : sikuli-driver@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~sikuli-driver More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp