Re: CSRe[2]: CSArgyria and Beneficial Bugs
In a message dated 4/16/2002 6:40:20 PM Central Daylight Time, sylviehargr...@hotmail.com writes: Janis still has NOT responded to my previous posts, in which I directly quote her from posts made in 2000. Using everyday math, she consumed more than 13 gallons of WaterOz silver. Going by her statement, made in 2000, she consumed over 7 gallons (which doesn't jibe with other statements in the same post). Going by her most recent statements, she only consumed 3 or 4 gallons. The question I posed was VERY basic. Just how much WaterOz DID she take? Which statement is accurate? Something must be wrong somewhere with the math. Because I purchased a total of 9 gallons of WaterOz and sold 3 to friends and gave some away and still have 1 partial one left sitting that I have given to friends to topical wounds and warts to see if it would take care of that. For the first few months before the WaterOz I took CS that I made myself. The reason I went with WaterOz is that it was ionic and was suppose to be higher in PPM plus smaller particle size because at that time on this list everyone was discussing how the particle size needed to be small to pass through the blood brain barrier to fight Lyme disease since it gets into the brain, central nervous system, and hides in cells. As far as very exact amounts I took I didn't keep real close account of how much my family took also and what all I did with all of it. I even made some of it into a spray for cuts and scrapes also. I had a bicycle wreck at one point and put WaterOz on my knee which took several weeks to heal too. I can say that my knee finally healed and didn't leave a scar and nope it didn't turn my knee grey either. I was told you guys would do this and I was waiting to see how long it would take before you would blast me and yes I get a little irritated because I remember all the things that I read on this list back then and felt so confident with everything. Now I am paying the price of being so gullible and believing everything and all the safety of it. BTW I don't sit on the computer all day long answering posts. I just got home from work and saw all the posts. I do have a life. Thank god or I would go nuts sitting here listening to all this about my color and what I did. Also I don't think all the posts are getting through because at times I see someone answering a post and I never received the original. In answer to the question on toxicity I never got sick or felt bad on the silver. All my organs check out fine I just have the grey problem to deal with and pray in time it will improve. The reason this is so depressing is I never thought the color thing would happen and I don't remember anyone on the list back then saying they were grey until a friend of mine said she was. I didn't even believe her back then because mine evidently took longer to develop. I know she didn't take near as much WaterOz as I did. I can't say exactly how much she took but I am almost sure it wasn't over a gallon maybe two. I haven't asked her. She was devastated enough to be badgered anymore. She dropped off the internet shortly after that and I feared the worst. Now thanks to being on this list I have gotten to talk to her and she is doing better. She is not on this list though and wont put herself through the cross examination I have so stupidly done. She also took another form of CS that she bought before the WaterOz. She was here once and said you guys blasted her and she said she didn't need that along with her problem. I do understand her reasoning. All I originally came here for was some information on something that might help and never realized I was going to be on trial. I have been able to laugh about it some but its getting harder as I go along. I was dealing with it better I think before I came here. Depression started in yesterday and reached a high today and hopefully tomorrow will be a brighter day.
Re: CSRe[2]: CSArgyria and Beneficial Bugs
In a message dated 4/16/2002 8:19:40 PM Central Daylight Time, liah...@utah-inter.net writes: Be aware that Donna, also a former Silverlister, got gray too after taking Wateroz. That stuff ain`t CS, fer sure. Stick with the home made stuff, folks... Marshalee Right on Marsha!!! Like I said earlier I know Donna didn't take as much as I did. It seems like she had only taken it for maybe a month and started talking about people saying she looked grey. It didn't seem that long. I sure thought back then she was just paranoid and imagining it. Boy do I feel bad about not believing her. Guess I deserve what I got huh?
Re: CSRe[2]: CSArgyria and Beneficial Bugs
In a message dated 4/16/2002 5:38:58 PM Central Daylight Time, so...@dialup.oar.net writes: Someone gets involved with a manufacturer, and stands to make a profit. So they espouse the virtues of the products. Then as time passes, that person has a little falling-out with that manufacturer. So, they run around trying to bad mouth them. Most probably just pure fiction on my part, but possible nonetheless. Ya right. Boy you are way off there. I have the face to prove it and just wanted to know of something to help and let people know it can happen. Anyone can come and view me anytime. Thank god though I do not look as bad as Rosemary. I still haven't figured out why only my face and not the whole body. Her selectivity in answering questions posed to her makes me quite suspect. Her outright attack on your, quite valid, statements, as if she is the ultimate authority, only adds to her lack of credibility. Yep I feel an authority on greyness now. Been there done that. Have you? Why bother with all the questions when its me paying the price and you just want to discredit me. Personally, I cannot accept any of her statements as fact until she sees fit to explain the discrepancies. I remember thinking the same way you do a few years ago about Rosemary and my friend who claimed to be grey.
Re: CSArgyria and Beneficial Bugs
In a message dated 4/16/2002 9:10:43 PM Central Daylight Time, liah...@utah-inter.net writes: Sorry, but the good bugs don`t kill the bad bugs in an aquarium. The biological filter works by the bacteria (neither good nor bad) converting nitrates from fish poo and uneated food into less harmful nitrites. The cure for it is less fish and more partial water changes. Nitrogen build-up is the real name for new tank syndrome. Marshalee, former aquarist... Ok I tried to simplify it so everyone would understand a little better. Like I said I wasn't going to go into depth as I considered it off topic. Guess I should have went into depth. Many people don't understand the Nitrates and Nitrogen cycle unless they have had an aquarium and many have had one and wondered why the fish died. LOL Here ya go though Nitrosomonas sp. will develop to naturally oxidize the ammonia into nitrite. This bacteria is an aerobic bacteria meaning that it requires oxygen. A well aerated and circulated aquarium is important. When this first species of bacteria has developed the ammonia levels in the aquarium will drop rapidly as well as fish distress. For a while. Then the Nitrosomonas bacteria is producing nitrite like crazy until the concentration reaches toxic proportion. High nitrites will cause the fish great distress and usually for a much longer period than the ammonia. The nitrites can inhibit the ability of the fish’s body to use oxygen. Just like in the first cycle, the nitrites will become so high that a second species of bacteria will develop Nitrobacter sp. This bacteria is also aerobic. It will oxidize the nitrite molecules into nitrate. Nitrate is relatively harmless to fish. Regular partial water changes and a little algae can keep nitrates under control. So to make it all short CS kills these good bacteria's that break down all this stuff (ammonia from excreted urine or whatever you want to call it and fish Poop as you say) and your aquarium has to start all over in the process. Then in the mean time watch out for diseases that can arise unless your fish are already dead. Time to start all over with the cycling and probably new fish too. Which is very similiar to what happens when we have yeast infections. Its an overgrowth of bacteria that would normally be kept in check with another bacteria (not going to go into all the names here but I am sure someone will) had we not killed it because of an antibiotic or other means. Geez I hate getting technical. Looks like thats what you guys want though and I frankly don't have the time for it. It's not that big a deal to me nor probably half the others on this list. Time to go to bed for me. I have been up way too long now playing these games. Nite Nite
CSListowner comments... please read
Dear group, Janis has come back to us to ask if we have any information about chelation, or anything else that might be able to help a mild case of argyria. Donna Earnest stopped using silver and left the list over a year ago after she also was told she looked grey. Both took a WaterOz silver product of high concentration and suspected of containing silver salts. At the time, WaterOz was a brand of silver preparation that a number of our members were reporting was quite effective. Perhaps Janis and Donna, themselves, were among those recommending it. Now we have not one case, but two, of people turning grey. This is not the time, ladies and gentlemen, to stick our heads in the sand. If the mission of the Silver List community is really to ... ...welcome both newcomers and experienced users who want to learn about Colloidal Silver, and to, ...share the most fair, unbiased, and good quality information we can, freely, without regard to ego or self interest... ... then we need to take Janis seriously and treat her respectfully. I believe that Janis has answered adequately in her recent post the question How much did she take? If she ...purchased a total of 9 gallons of WaterOz and sold 3 to friends and gave some away and still have 1 partial one left sitting... then that certainly sets the upper bounds for the answer. Any mathematical imprecision in her answers, including messages from many months ago, can be excused as the rough approximations that they were intended to be. Although we would *like* to have an ironclad medical diagnosis of Argyria, complete with skin biopsy and analysis, I think there's plenty enough to go on without it. If she wants to sacrifice a little flesh to our curiosity, I would be grateful as hell. If not, I would certainly understand, wouldn't you? Janis is handling her situation better than any of us has a right to expect. She's taking full responsibility for her actions and remaining hopeful: I have to admit I should have heeded the words of someone saying that high parts per million and taking ionic silver wasn't a good idea. I should have stayed with the colloidal silver I made and knew exactly what went into it... I took the WaterOz silver in fairly large amounts and I really think that is what has caused this. I knew from all the talk that there was a possibility of this happening so I only blame myself and no one else. When I had Lyme I held out ... hope that I would get better although many told me I wouldn't. Just like now I am holding out hope I will find either something to make it better or start telling people to Kiss my A## when they say I look grey. LOL That's an attitude I can work with, folks. Janis, please continue to be patient with us. I want to hear again of any ideas you may have on ways to help eliminate argyria. We've got a chance to learn something here, and a friend who is asking for our help. Let's give it. Marshall, what was that oral chelation program you used? I remember reading that EDTA works best on lead, and that there was another chelating agent that works better for Mercury. Is there one for silver? Be well, Mike Devour silver-list owner [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSArgyria and Beneficial Bugs
Janis, It is not my intention, nor the intention of others (I believe), to blast you. Nor is it my intention to make light of your situation. But, you do need to understand that there are many people on this list who would like to know the specifics. No, the exact amount of WaterOz that you consumed isn't critical, but as much accurate information that you can provide is. Why? So that it may be possible in the future to keep someone else from ending up the same way. One point that should be clarified is that WaterOz is NOT the same as electrically produced colloidal silver. It is, as I and others have previously stated, a silver nitrate solution. It is as different from colloidal silver as a block of sodium is from sodium nitrate. While sodium nitrate will peacefully dissolve in water, pure sodium will cause quite an explosion when placed into water. The differentiation between the WaterOz product and colloidal silver should be stressed. What should also be stressed is that at this point in time, there are still no documented, verifiable cases of argyria caused solely by ingestion of electro-colloidal silver. If anyone has documentation to the contrary, there are many who eagerly await the chance to view it. As far as your statement.. I was told you guys would do this and I was waiting to see how long it would take before you would blast me and yes I get a little irritated because I remember all the things that I read on this list back then and felt so confident with everything. Now I am paying the price of being so gullible and believing everything and all the safety of it. In reading through the archives, it seems that YOU were the one so cock-sure of the safety of WaterOz, even though others were bringing up questions as to the possibility of it causing argyria. You chose not to even question the safety of the product, even though many were trying to get you to consider otherwise. It seems you have selectively chosen not to remember those statements, but rather, would have everyone believe that you were somehow misled and duped into taking WaterOz by the people on this list. While I am sorry to hear about your condition, let me close by saying there are worse things in life. As an amputee, I know the looks, stares, and comments one generally receives in public. But those are truly nothing. To eradicate your depression, might I suggest visiting your local childrens hospital and taking a look at little kids who have been burned beyond belief, or those who have lost limbs. I have, as they say, been there and done that. And, I find that your whole woe is me attitude, about a cosmetic condition that is only visible under certain lighting, genuinely sucks. It's my opinion that you should learn what is important in life, and how to count your blessings. -- Best regards, Solar -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCS Salve
I once saw a website from which you could order a substance (some kind of inert gel) that you could mix with CS to make a salve, but have long since lost the link. But I know it's out there somewhere. Neil
Re: CSH2O2 in CS
CS as deodorantTrouble with that test is it is very crude - every DIY process for making CS will produce some fraction of particulate (ie colloidal) silver - anything from less than 1% to perhaps 30%. How would one know where in the range their product lies? Many will take exception with the claim that the best product contains no metallic (colloidal) silver. That sounds like pure silver nitrate! Kevin Nolan - Original Message - From: Richard To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 12:38 PM Subject: Re: CSH2O2 in CS I found this on the web regarding a method of testing CS using Hydrogen Peroxide: The best product contains no metallic silver and a very simple test for metallic silver is to add some hydrogen peroxide to the solution. For a valid test, pour a few spoons of your colloidal silver into a new clean plastic bag and add about half a spoon of hydrogen peroxide to it. Expel most of the air and seal the bag. Lay it where it will not be disturbed and look for bubbles after a few hours! If there are many bubbles, you have very poor product! If metal free, there will be none, even after 24 hours! Metallic silver is a catalyst for breaking down hydrogen peroxide into water and oxygen gas, while silver ions have no effect! Richard Bob Bartell wrote: After reading Jason's message about adding hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) to CS and remembering other posts in the past that have mentioned this, a little bell went off in my head with a link to some memories of 35% food grade hydrogen peroxide, et al. Anyhow, I went to the medicine cabinet to check what was there and found a bottle of 3%. It was acquired from K-Mart and in prominent size lettering on the front it states 3% H2O2 U.S.P. When I went to school, that stood for United States Pure. The fine print on the back says Also contains 0.001% Phosphoric Acid as a stabilizer, and Purified Water. Purified water means no live bugs but other inert ingredients may be dissolved in the water - right? Well, I better get out those old supplier lists of Food Grade H2O2 and make my own dilute solutions with distilled water. That, hopefully, won't screw up my CS experimentations. Anybody else care to comment on their experiences with H2O2 in CS? Namaste: Bob -Original Message- From: AVRA / Jason [mailto:silverd...@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 2:19 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSvolltage ? Trem's generator ( personally speaking ) create a CS that tastes about half as metallic as a very high ionic colloidal silver ( as tested by ionizing remaining particles with H2O2 ) at about 10PPM. I've noticed that as the PPM increases, so does the strength of the taste, considering with a good current controlled generator, the ratio of ionic vs. colloidal content should roughly remain the same ( within reason ). From my observations, an 85% ionic CS as compared to a 95%+ ( only estimated ) CS has quite a different taste ( the latter being more bitter or harsh ). However, you can get the same level of taste from a nine-volt battery setup... While a very strong batch will be lower quality because of the runaway reaction producing larger particles and producing a poorly dispersed end product, it will still taste quite potent. I don't think taste can be used to gauge quality, only to determine whether or not there are silver ions. Silverpuppy generators produce a CS that is very similiar taste-wise; the taste of Natural Immunogenics Argentum 23 is also very comparable. But, being taste, this is all very subjective, although I just went and took a small sip of all three. Jason - Original Message - From: Trem To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 9:41 AM Subject: Re: CSvolltage ? Hi Russ, We test all our SG7 Pro machines by making CS and calibrating them at the same time. So, we always end up with CS that measures at least 15 PPM determined by using 3 PWT's for averaging purposes. Since lab tests show our CS is 85% ionic that means it is at least 17 PPM total silver. The figure of 15 PPM is actually on the low side because we usually crank the output up to 20 PPM to assure customers they can get at least 15 PPM. So, that means our CS made during testing is usually 20+ PPM. I drink between 1 and 4 ounces at a time daily. To me the taste is usually not metallic but does save a faint astringent flavor. When I have made it to strengths of 35-45 PPM it sometimes does have a metallic flavor but by no means is it unpleasant. I must also let you know my palate is not the meat and potatoes type. We cook with lots of spices and exotic flavors so our CS might taste different to someone that is used to a more
Re: CSColloidal vs silver ions
RE: CSColloidal vs silver ionsWell we seem to have been talking different things Bob. Seems you were referring to the final outcome - the effect, which is indeed relatively large particles of silver and I suppose silver compounds in the skin and sometimes elsewhere. At any rate we all agree that silver nitrate is bad stuff. Kevin Nolan - Original Message - From: Bob Bartell To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 2:35 PM Subject: RE: CSColloidal vs silver ions OK Kevin and others! Lets stop posturing with this pseudo science. Everyone of you knows that Argyria is caused by LARGE particles of silver compounds .. Not ions! Not Electro-Colloidal Silver ions or particles!. The human cells treat anything that is not a nutrient or cannot be converted into a nutrient or something useful to cells .. as garbage and begins an excretion process. If the molecules are too heavy or too large to follow the normal lymphatic excretory paths to and from the lymph nodes then they will be moved to the skin area for movement through the pores. Here they can get stuck in the subcutaneous layers - LARGE Particles that give the skin a subdermal blue tint. . not microscopically small ions. I repeat, nobody, not one single person, not even Blue Rosemary has ever turned blue from consuming Electro-Colloidal Silver! It hasn't happened and it wilI not happen in spite of all the off the shelf conjecture. I sometimes wonder if we are inviting the FDA to step in and settle the disagreements in favor of the pharmaceutical industry? Namaste: Bob Bartell -Original Message- From: Kevin Nolan [mailto:ken...@optusnet.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 9:28 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSColloidal vs silver ions Bob Bartell wrote: Dear Bobbye and all other novices. Colloidal silver made by the electrolysis method, which is what we all use here on this list, is, for all practical purposes, harmless and will not cause the discoloration of the skin (argyria). The particles and ions are all too small to have this effect. The discoloration is caused by ingesting silver compounds (silver nitrate, et al - which are relatively huge particles like you find in some products like Water-oz.). Actually, Bob, the particle size of ionic silver compounds like silver nitrate when dissolved are, even allowing for solvation (surrounded by water molecules), the smallest possible - ions. In that much the deceptive spiel of WaterOz is correct. There are doubtless a number of factors determining whether argyria results. Marshall Dudley has already explained a number. Silver nitrate has far greater solubility than any other commonly available silver salt, and thus the higher concentration available would of itself allow an overload of the body's excretory capacity, locally at least. It should be remembered that the home brewed LVDC CS is typically 70-95% ionic - as the dissociated compound silver hydroxide. It's relatively low solubility is perhaps the main reason no-one seems to have ever contracted argyria ingesting it. Beyond mere concentration though it is known that nitrate ion is a tissue irritant and poison in higher concentrations. Someone else may have a better idea but I suspect nitrate has a specific action in predisposing tissue cells to react with ionic silver and precipitate the particulate form to give argyria. That is to say, I suspect other silver salts of equal silver concentration probably are much less likely to result in argyria. As for any medication, allopathic or herbal or whatever, there is also individual biochemistry to contend with. It is possible Janis has a predisposition to argyria, but I don't suggest any 'controlled study' involving listers gulping down silver nitrate! regards, Kevin Nolan
Re: CSCS Salve
Try, http://www.elixa.com/silver/index.html At 08:51 4/17/02, you wrote: I once saw a website from which you could order a substance (some kind of inert gel) that you could mix with CS to make a salve, but have long since lost the link. But I know it's out there somewhere. Neil Bill Hibernating in the North Country of NY Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
CSNo argyria
Kevin Nolan said, That quote on no reported cases of argyria in the last 25 years is not quite correct though. Actually, it is totally correct. Dr. Schauss said: We could not locate a single case of orally consumed colloidal silver manufactured in the last 25 years causing Argyria in our review of the literature. Orally consumed colloidal silver has not caused, and never will cause, argyria, or any other harmful reaction. __ Find, Connect Date! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSListowner comments... please read
list, I think a little experimentation may be helpful. If one were to use a mineral like Magnesium it might replace or absorb the silver. I am going to mix some magnesium with some CS see what happens then filter it through a coffee filter and see if I have any silver left in the resulting water by using a lazer. I might just get gunk but it is a start. Calcium may be my next trial. and so on. Marlene PS please I have made milky silver with Ascorbic Acid is it CS or useable. Will someone give me an answer? Thank you Marlene - Original Message - From: M. G. Devour Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 6:35 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSListowner comments... please read Dear group, Janis has come back to us to ask if we have any information about chelation, or anything else that might be able to help a mild case of argyria. Donna Earnest stopped using silver and left the list over a year ago after she also was told she looked grey. Both took a WaterOz silver product of high concentration and suspected of containing silver salts. At the time, WaterOz was a brand of silver preparation that a number of our members were reporting was quite effective. Perhaps Janis and Donna, themselves, were among those recommending it. Now we have not one case, but two, of people turning grey. This is not the time, ladies and gentlemen, to stick our heads in the sand. If the mission of the Silver List community is really to ... ...welcome both newcomers and experienced users who want to learn about Colloidal Silver, and to, ...share the most fair, unbiased, and good quality information we can, freely, without regard to ego or self interest... ... then we need to take Janis seriously and treat her respectfully. I believe that Janis has answered adequately in her recent post the question How much did she take? If she ...purchased a total of 9 gallons of WaterOz and sold 3 to friends and gave some away and still have 1 partial one left sitting... then that certainly sets the upper bounds for the answer. Any mathematical imprecision in her answers, including messages from many months ago, can be excused as the rough approximations that they were intended to be. Although we would *like* to have an ironclad medical diagnosis of Argyria, complete with skin biopsy and analysis, I think there's plenty enough to go on without it. If she wants to sacrifice a little flesh to our curiosity, I would be grateful as hell. If not, I would certainly understand, wouldn't you? Janis is handling her situation better than any of us has a right to expect. She's taking full responsibility for her actions and remaining hopeful: I have to admit I should have heeded the words of someone saying that high parts per million and taking ionic silver wasn't a good idea. I should have stayed with the colloidal silver I made and knew exactly what went into it... I took the WaterOz silver in fairly large amounts and I really think that is what has caused this. I knew from all the talk that there was a possibility of this happening so I only blame myself and no one else. When I had Lyme I held out ... hope that I would get better although many told me I wouldn't. Just like now I am holding out hope I will find either something to make it better or start telling people to Kiss my A## when they say I look grey. LOL That's an attitude I can work with, folks. Janis, please continue to be patient with us. I want to hear again of any ideas you may have on ways to help eliminate argyria. We've got a chance to learn something here, and a friend who is asking for our help. Let's give it. Marshall, what was that oral chelation program you used? I remember reading that EDTA works best on lead, and that there was another chelating agent that works better for Mercury. Is there one for silver? Be well, Mike Devour silver-list owner [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSArgyria and Beneficial Bugs
There was a medical case a few years ago where they thought somebody had argyria from silver, however, they found that it was caused by something else, I don't have access to the New England Journal of Medicine website any more, so I can't look up the cite, however, I do have a question, and that is, have you had your skin tested for silver content? If you have already answered this, then I must have missed it, and am sorry for being redundant. A skin test is the first thing I would do if I were worried about argyria. Yours in health, James Allison - Original Message - From: sinaj...@aol.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 12:41 AM Subject: Re: CSArgyria and Beneficial Bugs In a message dated 4/16/2002 9:10:43 PM Central Daylight Time, liah...@utah-inter.net writes: Sorry, but the good bugs don`t kill the bad bugs in an aquarium. The biological filter works by the bacteria (neither good nor bad) converting nitrates from fish poo and uneated food into less harmful nitrites. The cure for it is less fish and more partial water changes. Nitrogen build-up is the real name for new tank syndrome. Marshalee, former aquarist... Ok I tried to simplify it so everyone would understand a little better. Like I said I wasn't going to go into depth as I considered it off topic. Guess I should have went into depth. Many people don't understand the Nitrates and Nitrogen cycle unless they have had an aquarium and many have had one and wondered why the fish died. LOL Here ya go though Nitrosomonas sp. will develop to naturally oxidize the ammonia into nitrite. This bacteria is an aerobic bacteria meaning that it requires oxygen. A well aerated and circulated aquarium is important. When this first species of bacteria has developed the ammonia levels in the aquarium will drop rapidly as well as fish distress. For a while. Then the Nitrosomonas bacteria is producing nitrite like crazy until the concentration reaches toxic proportion. High nitrites will cause the fish great distress and usually for a much longer period than the ammonia. The nitrites can inhibit the ability of the fish’s body to use oxygen. Just like in the first cycle, the nitrites will become so high that a second species of bacteria will develop Nitrobacter sp. This bacteria is also aerobic. It will oxidize the nitrite molecules into nitrate. Nitrate is relatively harmless to fish. Regular partial water changes and a little algae can keep nitrates under control. So to make it all short CS kills these good bacteria's that break down all this stuff (ammonia from excreted urine or whatever you want to call it and fish Poop as you say) and your aquarium has to start all over in the process. Then in the mean time watch out for diseases that can arise unless your fish are already dead. Time to start all over with the cycling and probably new fish too. Which is very similiar to what happens when we have yeast infections. Its an overgrowth of bacteria that would normally be kept in check with another bacteria (not going to go into all the names here but I am sure someone will) had we not killed it because of an antibiotic or other means. Geez I hate getting technical. Looks like thats what you guys want though and I frankly don't have the time for it. It's not that big a deal to me nor probably half the others on this list. Time to go to bed for me. I have been up way too long now playing these games. Nite Nite
CSCS: Welcome back Janis!!
Dear Janis, I`m Marsha and Marshalee both. When the idiot husband dumped me 2 years ago, I changed back to my real name. Lots has happened to me since then. I`m at BYU again, after my 29 year long break to raise four kids. I`m studying Genealogy. It`s been hard work, but lots of fun. I have 4 grandkids now. We lost one in 1998 at the age of 2 days. (Her heart was too small.sigh...) I have a new Pug dog, who has made life worth living. Been through and survived a major depression, thanks to the Colloidal Gold that Chip Hoyle so generously sent me. Now I`m waiting to find out what the anomaly is on the MRI I had done 2 weeks ago is... (Possibly MS. My sister has it.) So that`s a thumbnail sketch of my life in the last 2 years. I`m glad you are back, and I hope we on the Silverlist can help you. (Donna, too! I still write to her after 5 years!!) So, what have you been doing? Love, Marshalee
Re: CSDouche
Since no one took at stab at this for you I have very successfully used CS for more than a couple years to initially stop a very long standing vaginal yeast infection. (another one of those side effects of diabetis and ABX therapy) So bad were the infections that a biopsy was even done. (that was 3 years ago) Also to keep a few recurrences under control. I initially started adding 2 tbls. of my home brewed 20ppm CS to a store bought individual light vinegar douche. Used once a week to start until the symptoms were gone. This winter I was on long term, intravenous antibiotics secondary to infection in one of the bones of my hand. The use of ABX ALWAYS brings on another bout of vaginal yeast I started up the CS/douche routine as soon as the symptoms started. This time I used a 90% CS /10% DMSO solution to the light vinegar douche. Again using about 2 tbls of this mix to one disposalbe douche. A friend knowledgeable to EO's suggested adding a couple drops of Tea Tree oil to my CS mix... To clarify: In 4 oz. dropper bottle..90% CS 10%DMSO, 2 drops Tea Tree oil. (The TTO is quite effective for the acute itching!!) (reminder: I am using my home brewed CS that has been tested at about 20ppm) Also, VERY EFFECTIVE: something new this friend suggested with this last bout of VYI. soak a tampon in a bit of the straight, non diluted CS/DMSO/TTO mix...place tampon, leave in place about 8 hours. At my worst with the ABX treatments of late, I would do this for 4 nights in a row (placing a wet tampon is a bit tricky...don't add TOO much!!) Good luck!! Connie From: m...@tropheus.demon.co.uk Reply-To: silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:04:04 +0100 To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSDouche Resent-From: silver-list@eskimo.com Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:04:08 -0700 I have searched the archives but can't find the strength of CS to use for douching for thrush. I already have 5PPM 30PPM and can dilute it if needed but to what strength? How many days can it be used for? Mary -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSListowner comments... please read
In a message dated 4/17/2002 7:12:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mlehan...@msn.com writes: list, I think a little experimentation may be helpful. If one were to use a mineral like Magnesium it might replace or absorb the silver. I was thinking the same thing. I have been using some products from Twilight that deliver magnesium throught the skin, apparently an infinitely more efficient method than taking it orally. Also, Twilight offers a product that makes structured water that is said to neutralize toxins in the body. I have been using these products with great results over the past few months. I can't say enough good about them. I have a financial interest in these products so I don't want to go beyond the moderator's rules about commercial activity on this forum by saying too much here. If anyone would like more information about the products and how to order them wholesale you may email me OFFLIST! and I will be happy to send you an attachment with the information and answer your questions privately. Sincerely, Neil Rhoads
RE: CSMilk
This preserves the milk at the expense of killing the bacteria---such as lactobacillus---that are one of the (few, many authorities claim) benefits of drinking milk. James-Osbourne: Holmes -Original Message- From: Richard [mailto:rhar...@nstep.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 8:31 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject:Re: CSMilk I make butter from whole milk, and the buttermilk will sour quickly, so to delay that I have had great success in adding 8-10 drops of hydrogen peroxide (35%) and a tablespoon of CS. Get a spray bottle and spray it on your vegies (anything that you put back in the fridge) to retard spoilage Nicola Kay wrote: Could anyone tell me if I put CS in my milk or cereal cream, would it keep it from going sour? Also, does it keep vegies fresh longer if they are rinsed or soaked in CS? -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSWater OZ silver
I was given a bottle of WaterOZ ionic silver by a friend who asked if we could do some lab testing on it. The bottle was labeled 100 ppm. Atomic absorption tests indicated it was actually 145 ppm. I called the company to ask about this discrepancy and was told that they used to make a 150 ppm silver product but decided to lower the ppm to 100 for reasons they did not explain. They admitted that when the bottles were printed with the 100 ppm value they still had a some 150 ppm product so they just filled the bottles with the 150 ppm until it was exhausted. They explained that they thought it would OK to do that since the customer was getting more than they bargained for. It would seem that the product is actually silver nitrate. Any who is ingesting this product on a continual basis is at risk for argyria. Most of their other products that they call ionic solutions are chloride salt solutions (i.e. gold chloride, copper chloride, selenium chloride, etc). For those who may be ingesting ionic gold solutions, which generally means gold chloride, I have been advised by a biochemist that gold chloride is neuro toxic which means it could potentially cause problems with nerve cells. I do not have more specific details at this time, but it seemed appropriate to pass this info on to the subscribers of the silver-list. Forewarned is forearmed, etc. frank key - Original Message - From: silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com To: silver-dig...@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 9:33 AM Subject: silver-digest Digest V102 #289 -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSArgyria and Beneficial Bugs
Amen. -Original Message- From: Solar [mailto:so...@dialup.oar.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 7:58 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSArgyria and Beneficial Bugs Janis, It is not my intention, nor the intention of others (I believe), to blast you. snip snip It's my opinion that you should learn what is important in life, and how to count your blessings. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSTopical use: Colloidal vs silver ions
Kevin Nolan wrote: General consensus though is that the ionic form works best for external use while the colloidal form probably survives better in the internal environment to 'do the job'. For topical use it is important to understand what happens when the water evaporates from the ionic silver solution vs the colloid. When the water is evaporated from an ionic silver solution this is what happens: Silver ions in a solution cannot exist without water, so when the water is evaporated the silver ions (cations) must combine with an available anion to form a compound. The predominant anions present in a silver colloid solution are hydroxide and carbonate. The compounds thus formed are silver hydroxide and silver carbonate. Silver hydroxide is unstable and reduces to silver oxide and hydrogen. The silver carbonate will reduce to silver oxide and carbon dioxide. The final compound that remains is silver oxide. For topical use that means that the skin is left with a thin film of silver oxide which is far less effective as a gemacide than either the ionic silver solution or metallic silver. When the water is evaporated from a true silver colloid this is what happens: Since a silver colloid is metallic silver particles in water, when the water is evaporated, what is left is a thin film of metallic silver. The metallic silver film that remains continues to exhibit the germicidal properties of silver and will kill pathogens that come in contact with it. So I would take issue with the initial statement that ionic silver is better for topical uses since a metallic silver film is a far better germicide than a silver oxide film. frank key www.PurestColloids.com -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSWater OZ silver
Did you, or could you test for nitrates? Marshall Frank Key wrote: I was given a bottle of WaterOZ ionic silver by a friend who asked if we could do some lab testing on it. The bottle was labeled 100 ppm. Atomic absorption tests indicated it was actually 145 ppm. I called the company to ask about this discrepancy and was told that they used to make a 150 ppm silver product but decided to lower the ppm to 100 for reasons they did not explain. They admitted that when the bottles were printed with the 100 ppm value they still had a some 150 ppm product so they just filled the bottles with the 150 ppm until it was exhausted. They explained that they thought it would OK to do that since the customer was getting more than they bargained for. It would seem that the product is actually silver nitrate. Any who is ingesting this product on a continual basis is at risk for argyria. Most of their other products that they call ionic solutions are chloride salt solutions (i.e. gold chloride, copper chloride, selenium chloride, etc). For those who may be ingesting ionic gold solutions, which generally means gold chloride, I have been advised by a biochemist that gold chloride is neuro toxic which means it could potentially cause problems with nerve cells. I do not have more specific details at this time, but it seemed appropriate to pass this info on to the subscribers of the silver-list. Forewarned is forearmed, etc. frank key - Original Message - From: silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com To: silver-dig...@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 9:33 AM Subject: silver-digest Digest V102 #289 -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSWater OZ silver
Thank You, Frank! Once again you have come through for us in a timely manner! It's appreciated! Namaste: Bob Bartell -Original Message- From: Frank Key [mailto:fr...@strsoft.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:15 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSWater OZ silver I was given a bottle of WaterOZ ionic silver by a friend who asked if we could do some lab testing on it. The bottle was labeled 100 ppm. Atomic absorption tests indicated it was actually 145 ppm. I called the company to ask about this discrepancy and was told that they used to make a 150 ppm silver product but decided to lower the ppm to 100 for reasons they did not explain. They admitted that when the bottles were printed with the 100 ppm value they still had a some 150 ppm product so they just filled the bottles with the 150 ppm until it was exhausted. They explained that they thought it would OK to do that since the customer was getting more than they bargained for. It would seem that the product is actually silver nitrate. Any who is ingesting this product on a continual basis is at risk for argyria. Most of their other products that they call ionic solutions are chloride salt solutions (i.e. gold chloride, copper chloride, selenium chloride, etc). For those who may be ingesting ionic gold solutions, which generally means gold chloride, I have been advised by a biochemist that gold chloride is neuro toxic which means it could potentially cause problems with nerve cells. I do not have more specific details at this time, but it seemed appropriate to pass this info on to the subscribers of the silver-list. Forewarned is forearmed, etc. frank key - Original Message - From: silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com To: silver-dig...@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 9:33 AM Subject: silver-digest Digest V102 #289 -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSTopical use: Colloidal vs silver ions
Frank Key wrote: Kevin Nolan wrote: General consensus though is that the ionic form works best for external use while the colloidal form probably survives better in the internal environment to 'do the job'. For topical use it is important to understand what happens when the water evaporates from the ionic silver solution vs the colloid. When the water is evaporated from an ionic silver solution this is what happens: Silver ions in a solution cannot exist without water, so when the water is evaporated the silver ions (cations) must combine with an available anion to form a compound. The predominant anions present in a silver colloid solution are hydroxide and carbonate. The compounds thus formed are silver hydroxide and silver carbonate. Silver hydroxide is unstable and reduces to silver oxide and hydrogen. The silver carbonate will reduce to silver oxide and carbon dioxide. The final compound that remains is silver oxide. For topical use that means that the skin is left with a thin film of silver oxide which is far less effective as a gemacide than either the ionic silver solution or metallic silver. I agree, however I believe the reason that the ions are postulated to be better for topical use in some cases is two fold. First ions should have much better penetration power than the particles, getting into the tissue, instead of just on it. Second ions allow injured cells to revert to stem cells, and thus are then able to convert to they type of cells needed for repair, whether skin, nerve hair follicle and so forth. This can prevent scarring and make healing complete and purfect. That added to what you say makes me believe that the best topical is a combination of colloid and ions. Marshall -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSSilver Compound Toxicity, the World Health Organization
I have posted a copy of the WHO Food Additives Series 12, on silver compound toxicity: http://silverdata.20m.com/whosilvercompoundtoxicity.html Quite a bit of interesting reading, although again the data is in reference to several different types of high PPM silver compounds. Jason -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSWater OZ silver
Marshall wrote: Did you, or could you test for nitrates? Yes. We no long have the Perkin Elmer Spectrophotometer in the lab, so we now use a simple test kit available from www.nitrate.com. The product is called the Nitrate Test Kit (NTK) and is available for testing in two ranges: The standard range is 0.5 to 10.0 ppm The low range is 0.05 to 1.0 ppm For $35 you get a test kit that will test 25 samples. frank key -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSListowner comments... please read
Excellant commentary by a responsible list owner. Kudo's Mike Richard M. G. Devour wrote: Dear group, Janis has come back to us to ask if we have any information about chelation, or anything else that might be able to help a mild case of argyria. Donna Earnest stopped using silver and left the list over a year ago after she also was told she looked grey. Both took a WaterOz silver product of high concentration and suspected of containing silver salts. At the time, WaterOz was a brand of silver preparation that a number of our members were reporting was quite effective. Perhaps Janis and Donna, themselves, were among those recommending it. Now we have not one case, but two, of people turning grey. This is not the time, ladies and gentlemen, to stick our heads in the sand. If the mission of the Silver List community is really to ... ...welcome both newcomers and experienced users who want to learn about Colloidal Silver, and to, ...share the most fair, unbiased, and good quality information we can, freely, without regard to ego or self interest... ... then we need to take Janis seriously and treat her respectfully. I believe that Janis has answered adequately in her recent post the question How much did she take? If she ...purchased a total of 9 gallons of WaterOz and sold 3 to friends and gave some away and still have 1 partial one left sitting... then that certainly sets the upper bounds for the answer. Any mathematical imprecision in her answers, including messages from many months ago, can be excused as the rough approximations that they were intended to be. Although we would *like* to have an ironclad medical diagnosis of Argyria, complete with skin biopsy and analysis, I think there's plenty enough to go on without it. If she wants to sacrifice a little flesh to our curiosity, I would be grateful as hell. If not, I would certainly understand, wouldn't you? Janis is handling her situation better than any of us has a right to expect. She's taking full responsibility for her actions and remaining hopeful: I have to admit I should have heeded the words of someone saying that high parts per million and taking ionic silver wasn't a good idea. I should have stayed with the colloidal silver I made and knew exactly what went into it... I took the WaterOz silver in fairly large amounts and I really think that is what has caused this. I knew from all the talk that there was a possibility of this happening so I only blame myself and no one else. When I had Lyme I held out ... hope that I would get better although many told me I wouldn't. Just like now I am holding out hope I will find either something to make it better or start telling people to Kiss my A## when they say I look grey. LOL That's an attitude I can work with, folks. Janis, please continue to be patient with us. I want to hear again of any ideas you may have on ways to help eliminate argyria. We've got a chance to learn something here, and a friend who is asking for our help. Let's give it. Marshall, what was that oral chelation program you used? I remember reading that EDTA works best on lead, and that there was another chelating agent that works better for Mercury. Is there one for silver? Be well, Mike Devour silver-list owner [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSWater OZ silver
What was the results? Marshall Frank Key wrote: Marshall wrote: Did you, or could you test for nitrates? Yes. We no long have the Perkin Elmer Spectrophotometer in the lab, so we now use a simple test kit available from www.nitrate.com. The product is called the Nitrate Test Kit (NTK) and is available for testing in two ranges: The standard range is 0.5 to 10.0 ppm The low range is 0.05 to 1.0 ppm For $35 you get a test kit that will test 25 samples. frank key -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSTopical use: Colloidal vs silver ions
Before this thread gets too long, I have a fundamental question, as you two are more knowledgeable: Franks website states that: Some electrochemical processes result in colloidal solutions whose metal content consists of only 1% particles, while 99% is ions. Is this 'electrochemical process' refering to the typical LVDC application utilizing 3 9v batteries? If so, what is the best way out there for making 80% colloidal (Besides Franks mesoprocess)? Richard Marshall Dudley wrote: Frank Key wrote: Kevin Nolan wrote: General consensus though is that the ionic form works best for external use while the colloidal form probably survives better in the internal environment to 'do the job'. For topical use it is important to understand what happens when the water evaporates from the ionic silver solution vs the colloid. When the water is evaporated from an ionic silver solution this is what happens: Silver ions in a solution cannot exist without water, so when the water is evaporated the silver ions (cations) must combine with an available anion to form a compound. The predominant anions present in a silver colloid solution are hydroxide and carbonate. The compounds thus formed are silver hydroxide and silver carbonate. Silver hydroxide is unstable and reduces to silver oxide and hydrogen. The silver carbonate will reduce to silver oxide and carbon dioxide. The final compound that remains is silver oxide. For topical use that means that the skin is left with a thin film of silver oxide which is far less effective as a gemacide than either the ionic silver solution or metallic silver. I agree, however I believe the reason that the ions are postulated to be better for topical use in some cases is two fold. First ions should have much better penetration power than the particles, getting into the tissue, instead of just on it. Second ions allow injured cells to revert to stem cells, and thus are then able to convert to they type of cells needed for repair, whether skin, nerve hair follicle and so forth. This can prevent scarring and make healing complete and purfect. That added to what you say makes me believe that the best topical is a combination of colloid and ions. Marshall -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSArgyria
A quick search a the New England Journal of Medicine http://content.nejm.org/ turned up these articles: Mystery of the Blue Pigmentation Johnston A. McD., Memon A. A. N Engl J Med 1999; 340:1597-1598, May 20, 1999. Correspondence Argyria Bouts B. A. N Engl J Med 1999; 340:1554, May 20, 1999. Images in Clinical Medicine Seminars in Medicine of the Beth Israel Hospital, Boston: The Neurologic Basis of Fever Saper C. B., Breder C. D. N Engl J Med 1994; 330:1880-1886, Jun 30, 1994. Review Articles Byron
CSArgyria and Beneficial Bugs
Hi Janis, Below is a pesto recipe that has been posted by various people. I would try that and also do a mild liver flush every morning until the colour clears away. Mild liver flush first thing in the morning take: 1 to 3 cloves garlic crushed 1/2 a lemon or more. 1 to 3 tablespoons olive oil stir and chug. Follow this with a glass or two of hot water. Tony === Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 11:57:05 -0500 From: Nina Silver ni...@bestweb.net Reply-To: silver-list@eskimo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com snip 3) Cilantro. There's a famous pesto recipe containing cilantro that's been floating around the internet: a) 1 clove of garlic ½ cup of almonds, cashews, or other nuts b) 1 cup packed fresh cilantro leaves 2 tablespoons lemon juice c) 6 tablespoons olive oil Put the cilantro and olive oil in blender and process until the cilantro is chopped. d) Add the rest of the ingredients and process to a lumpy paste. (You may need to add a touch of hot water and scrape the sides of the blender.) You can change the consistency by altering the amount of olive oil and lemon juice, but keep the 3:1 ratio of oil to juice. (If freezes well, so you can make several batches at once.) snip -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSArgyria(2)
This site discusses Argyria: http://www.emedicine.com/derm/topic595.htm Including some possible removal techniques. Byron
Re: CSCS Starter????
On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:16:51 -0700, Malcolm Stebbins s...@asis.com wrote: All this brings a question to my mind; what about that first 15 minutes or half-hour? What I mean is, if the particle size is largely governed by the current rate, so that smaller particles are generated at lower currents, isn't that first period of time generating the smallest and supposedly most effective particles of all? Does the ionic silver get made then, primarily, or throughout the whole period of time the generator is going? According to the reports I've seen here (and a bit of my own testing), lower currents do produce smaller particles (silver ions). But small enough particles are produced if you keep the current below 1 or 2 mA. What a starter does is allow an initial current of something like 0.1 mA instead of the 0.001 mA you'd get with pure distilled water. IOW, you're short-cutting the time it takes the generator to produce enough silver ions (the time it takes to go from 0.001 mA to 0.1 mA). -- Dean -- from (almost) Des Moines -- KB0ZDF -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSGall Bladder Stones
I have a friend, a 60+ woman, who I helped get over type II diabetes, which was found to have some gall bladder stones, up to 11 mm in diameter (about 1/5 of an inch). She is pressured by almost everyone to have an operation to remove the gall bladder. She has no infection or inflammation, and no pains. I would greatly appreciate advice on the best way to handle that, the dangers that may be involved, and what to expect. Thank you very much. Ronen. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSGall Bladder Stones
On Thursday, April 18, 2002, at 05:59 AM, Ronen Yehiav wrote: She is pressured by almost everyone to have an operation to remove the gall bladder. She has no infection or inflammation, and no pains. Here are the official rules: If there is no pain and no infection YOU DO NOT SCREW AROUND WITH SURGERY!!! I had my GB taken out 5 years ago (lots of pain and infection) and I ended up a month in hospital, Roux-Y biliary reconstruction and pain and problems ever since. Going under the knife is not a mini-vacation. It is dangerous. The option is always there. Any surgeon who would take it out now is a money-grubbing quack. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSListowner comments... please read
My suggestion to Janis would be to look closely into the claims of Y. Omura, MD, that simple cilantro effectively chelates metals from the body. He has made no specific claims r.e. agyria, so far as I know, but claims cilantro scavenges mercury very effectively. I made this recommendation to R. Jacobs, who said she might look into it. I think it is worth a try, and seems to be perfectly safe, as cilantro is a common herb used daily in Asia. JBB M. G. Devour wrote: Dear group, Janis has come back to us to ask if we have any information about chelation, or anything else that might be able to help a mild case of argyria. Donna Earnest stopped using silver and left the list over a year ago after she also was told she looked grey. Both took a WaterOz silver product of high concentration and suspected of containing silver salts. At the time, WaterOz was a brand of silver preparation that a number of our members were reporting was quite effective. Perhaps Janis and Donna, themselves, were among those recommending it. Now we have not one case, but two, of people turning grey. This is not the time, ladies and gentlemen, to stick our heads in the sand. If the mission of the Silver List community is really to ... ...welcome both newcomers and experienced users who want to learn about Colloidal Silver, and to, ...share the most fair, unbiased, and good quality information we can, freely, without regard to ego or self interest... ... then we need to take Janis seriously and treat her respectfully. I believe that Janis has answered adequately in her recent post the question How much did she take? If she ...purchased a total of 9 gallons of WaterOz and sold 3 to friends and gave some away and still have 1 partial one left sitting... then that certainly sets the upper bounds for the answer. Any mathematical imprecision in her answers, including messages from many months ago, can be excused as the rough approximations that they were intended to be. Although we would *like* to have an ironclad medical diagnosis of Argyria, complete with skin biopsy and analysis, I think there's plenty enough to go on without it. If she wants to sacrifice a little flesh to our curiosity, I would be grateful as hell. If not, I would certainly understand, wouldn't you? Janis is handling her situation better than any of us has a right to expect. She's taking full responsibility for her actions and remaining hopeful: I have to admit I should have heeded the words of someone saying that high parts per million and taking ionic silver wasn't a good idea. I should have stayed with the colloidal silver I made and knew exactly what went into it... I took the WaterOz silver in fairly large amounts and I really think that is what has caused this. I knew from all the talk that there was a possibility of this happening so I only blame myself and no one else. When I had Lyme I held out ... hope that I would get better although many told me I wouldn't. Just like now I am holding out hope I will find either something to make it better or start telling people to Kiss my A## when they say I look grey. LOL That's an attitude I can work with, folks. Janis, please continue to be patient with us. I want to hear again of any ideas you may have on ways to help eliminate argyria. We've got a chance to learn something here, and a friend who is asking for our help. Let's give it. Marshall, what was that oral chelation program you used? I remember reading that EDTA works best on lead, and that there was another chelating agent that works better for Mercury. Is there one for silver? Be well, Mike Devour silver-list owner [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCS Starter????
Explain this and what happens if you dont use a starter??? What is the end result??? Thanks. Maxine Just takes longer to make. I just made a batch from straight distilled water had some water left cause my jar only holds 96 oz refilled the jar then brewed for a much shorter time. Sincerely Joseph B Fritz
Re: CSSilver Compound Toxicity, the World Health Organization
Dear Jason, It is a true tragedy that such blatant spinning of information is expected to pass as objective research. In possible defense of most of these researchers-of-record, most of them (probably) were totally unfamiliar with true...single-element.collodial silver at the time of their investigations. And even if aware, would find themselves in a circumstance not likely to encourage revelations of their expanded knowledge. What becomes difficult to swallow, is the patently obvious silence-gives-consent posture taken by the FDA. At present, their strategy appears to be to attack true colloidal silver through the guilt-by association ploy *(i.e. indicted as a co-conspirator with silver compounds)..and to hide behind plausible denial-in case of any untoward developments which might reveal such chicanery. Material such as that included in the referenced documentation would.in all likelihoodscare the daylights out of the average uniformed citizen-and certainly the majority of the lay public. Neither I, nor my organization would be well-served by, truly, venting my spleen further on this matter. Sincerely, Brooks. AVRA / Jason wrote: I have posted a copy of the WHO Food Additives Series 12, on silver compound toxicity: http://silverdata.20m.com/whosilvercompoundtoxicity.html Quite a bit of interesting reading, although again the data is in reference to several different types of high PPM silver compounds. Jason -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSArgyria, misc posts
-Original Message- From: Terry Chamberlin [mailto:tcj...@yahoo.ca] Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 4:04 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSArgyria, misc posts snip... Let me quote Alexander G. Schauss, Ph.D. Director, Life Sciences Division John Hopkins University ...The amount of silver required to develop Argyria is estimated to be 3.8 grams per day. By comparison standard 10 ppm colloidal silver contains silver in amounts equaling less than 1 milligram of silver (1,000 micrograms = 1 milligram; 1,000 milligrams - 1 gram), which therefore represents an amount approximately 1/500th to 1/1000th of the amount of silver considered to be a risk in the development of Argyria. ...snip Hiya Terry, I must start this note by saying that I highly appreciate your posts on Colloidal Silver. I have followed them closely while on this list and have spent quite a bit of time in the archives reading the material you've placed there. However, one paragraph in this quote by Dr Schauss, referenced above, has troubled me in that are two points that seem contentious. Perhaps you have some additional information in this regard. POINT #1 -- The good Dr appears to be in error when talking about 10 PPM CS containing less than 1 milligram (mg) of silver. Without stating the volume of liquid referred to it is impossible to determine a silver amount. By definition of Parts Per Million, 10 PPM CS will contain 10mg of silver per liter of water. POINT #2 -- The mention of development of argyria from consumption of an estimated 3.8 grams of silver PER DAY is not referenced and from what I have researched, unsubstantiated, except perhaps for some animal studies. Do you know how Dr Schauss came to this dosage value? The 'per day' reference in Dr Schauss' quote seems questionable. Recent and past postings on this list by 'Sinaj101' and 'LymeSurvivor' (same person?) indicate an argyria-like reaction to consumption of at least 7 gallons of 100 PPM Water Oz product over about a year and a half. The total silver ingested at this concentration and volume is about 2.65 grams. I _totally_ realize that the Water Oz preparation is most certainly NOT the electrolytically produced CS that most of us make and use, but I think it is significant that the silver consumed in this unfortunate case is far, far less than 3.8 grams per day and should be clarified, if only for the edification of us all. Thank you, JJ -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSListowner comments... please read
- Original Message - From: M. G. Devour mdev...@eskimo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 5:16 AM Subject: CSListowner comments... please read Dear group, Janis has come back to us to ask if we have any information about chelation, or anything else that might be able to help a mild case of argyria. Donna Earnest stopped using silver and left the list over a year ago after she also was told she looked grey. HMm. Both took a WaterOz silver product of high concentration and suspected of containing silver salts. At the time, WaterOz was a brand of silver preparation that a number of our members were reporting was quite effective. Perhaps Janis and Donna, themselves, were among those recommending it. Now we have not one case, but two, of people turning grey. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
