Re: CS>Silver dressings

[Nancy Winiecki]

I already replied to a similar thread about silver bandages, about one they 
used on my MIL for a wound, she was 101 and healed very poorly.  It was called 
Aquasol Ag by Convatec, and I googled it and found some perhaps the same for 
sale on Amazon among other sources.   The silver is combined with some kind of 
algal gel so it swells when it gets wet, and seemed to stick to the wound, but 
did slowly cause it to heal.
Nancy 


 On Wednesday, August 12, 2015 8:18 PM, Patricia  
wrote:
   

   Thanks for the reminder Neville.  I have sprayed the wound .. but not soaked 
the bandage.. good thinking.  :)
 
 On 8/12/2015 10:15 PM, wanda85...@yahoo.com wrote:
  
 Thats so simple and smart.   Why is it we so often have to make things harder 
than they have to be?  
  Gail
 
 Sent from my iPhone 
 On Aug 12, 2015, at 8:09 PM, Neville  wrote:
 
  
   I simply 
wet an ordinary bandaid, or bandage dependant on wound size, with silver and 
place on wound.  That dressing is kept wet with silver using a syringe as often 
as possible/feasible and is not removed for changing for several days, as you 
say Jane.  I've always done this for any injury I've ever had.  Of course I 
would consider an alternative treatment if my leg was cut off . 
  I also did this for toenail fungus (haven't a bloody clue as to how I got 
that?), sprayed directly on toe and wet the sock around the area of that toe 
before putting shoe on each day.  Did this for a couple of weeks until I 
considered the fungus was killed, it then took about 2-3 years for the nail to 
regrow normally.  The silver may have killed it in a matter of days however, I 
don't know?
 
  N.
 
  From: highfie...@internode.on.net
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CS>Silver dressings
 Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:05:13 +1000
 
  I did wear the bandaid for several days and through a few washes 
otherwise there was no skin break - but I knew it would do the trick & it did & 
yes I have used silver dressings extensively for burns patients for many years 
while I was nursing. I have to say I am disappointed it contains aluminium.
 
 Jane 
 
 The silver bandaid has a layer interwoven with aluminum thread and another 
one with silver thread.  When body fluids provide the electrolyte, a battery 
effect is created which sends silver ions headed towards the  aluminum..only to 
get lost in the wound.
 
  It is in all respects, a "CS" generator wrapped around your finger.
 
  The silver  dressings such as silverlon and acticoat are used with small 
amounts of electrical current to produce the silver ions in  the wound.  Often 
used in burn wards now.
 
  Ode
  
  
 
 
 

  

Re: CS>what next?

[Nancy Winiecki]

My MIL used to live with us, she had very poor circulation and wound healing 
ability.  She fell and had a bad wound at age 101 from scraping against the 
hook on a coat hanger that also fell, and it took 6 weeks or more for it to 
heal.  She was going to a wound clinic at the hospital and  they were willing 
to use silver dressing on her wound, it is called Aquasol Ag by Convatec.  It 
is my impression it is silver in some kind of kelp-based sheet, like agar-agar, 
so when it gets wet from the wound seepage it swells.  It did tend to kind of 
stick to the wound.   I just googled it and it is for sale on Amazon and 
elsewhere.  It did slowly heal her wound.  I guess I would consider it overkill 
for a healthy person or small wound.
Nancy

 


 On Tuesday, August 11, 2015 6:13 AM, RoseOttoGroups 
 wrote:
   

 'Wonder if Egypt has the same problem we in the US have with our FDA--if
the research isn't approved by them, it doesn't exist.

.  Silver bandages have been used for years now by the US armed forces
in their field dressings. I have band-aids in the cupboard that say they
are silver-impregnated.

On 8/11/2015 8:48 AM, HARSHA GODAVARI wrote:
>
> New material helps diabetic wounds heal faster
> 
>
> 
>     Diabetics run a heightened risk of serious infection from even the
> smallest of open wounds. That's why a team of scientists from Egypt's
> Alexandria University have developed a means of getting those wounds
> to heal faster – silver-impregnated dressings.
> 
> read more
> 
>
> Space
> 
>
>



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Re: CS>Google, Lists, etc.

[V]

Agreed fully, thank you to all on here. V

Feelings, by themselves, do not create problems. It is rather the tendency
to interpret and analyze them. When out of habit you believe those
interpretations, it is there that the suffering begins. Mooji

Forgiveness, openness and understanding
Flow naturally where there is compassion. Mooji

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Deborah Gerard 
wrote:

> Thank-you
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 12, 2015 8:41 AM, Victor Cozzetto <
> victor.cozze...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> After seeing a recent exchange, I felt it important to share my opinion
> about using Google, this list, and other sources.
>
> I would strongly recommend that you do not rely solely on Google for
> answers. More and more, Google becomes just another arm of big business, as
> the search results are biased in many ways, and the information you seek is
> either not found, or hopelessly buried. Not to mention that 'googling' is a
> technique that requires some finesse.
>
> In addition, most people do not realize the extents to which information
> is distorted on the web. Astroturfing and seeding are are very common
> practices that are used to suppress or discredit the information you seek.
> There are a great many tactics used by big business to mold the information
> that is out there. This applies to all information sources, including such
> things as product reviews on Amazon, etc.
>
> Furthermore, even the best intended sources are sometimes holding back
> information, to avoid scrutiny, to find acceptance, to serve a specific
> purpose, or for some other reason. I even find myself hesitant on my own
> Vitagenics  blog for various reasons.
>
> In my opinion, there is no such thing as a stupid question, so I welcome
> any query or opinion that I see on this list. Even within these lists we
> must be vigilant against attempts to misdirect or derail our efforts, so
> lengthy conversations that include multiple trusted members are your best
> bet for sorting out truth; or at least getting an honest informed opinion.
>
> Lastly, I would say, do not mistake silence for apathy on this mailing
> list, as I think most people here simply hold their tongue until they have
> something valuable to add.
>
> I think this list is a very valuable resource, and it is fueled by
> questions, so never hesitate to ask. I am not the moderator, but that is my
> opinion.
>
> Good health to all of you,
> Victor
> http://www.vitagenics.net
>
>
>

Re: CS>Silver dressings

[Patricia]

Thanks for the reminder Neville.  I have sprayed the wound .. but not 
soaked the bandage.. good thinking.  :)


On 8/12/2015 10:15 PM, wanda85...@yahoo.com wrote:
Thats so simple and smart.   Why is it we so often have to make things 
harder than they have to be? 


Gail

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2015, at 8:09 PM, Neville > wrote:


I simply wet an ordinary bandaid, or bandage dependant on wound size, 
with silver and place on wound.  That dressing is kept wet with 
silver using a syringe as often as possible/feasible and is not 
removed for changing for several days, as you say Jane.  I've always 
done this for any injury I've ever had.  Of course I would consider 
an alternative treatment if my leg was cut off .


I also did this for toenail fungus (haven't a bloody clue as to how I 
got that?), sprayed directly on toe and wet the sock around the area 
of that toe before putting shoe on each day.  Did this for a couple 
of weeks until I considered the fungus was killed, it then took about 
2-3 years for the nail to regrow normally.  The silver may have 
killed it in a matter of days however, I don't know?


N.


From: highfie...@internode.on.net 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Subject: Re: CS>Silver dressings
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:05:13 +1000

I did wear the bandaid for several days and through a few washes 
otherwise there was no skin break - but I knew it would do the trick 
& it did & yes I have used silver dressings extensively for burns 
patients for many years while I was nursing. I have to say I am 
disappointed it contains aluminium.


Jane


The silver bandaid has a layer interwoven with aluminum thread
and another one with silver thread.  When body fluids provide the
electrolyte, a battery effect is created which sends silver ions
headed towards the aluminum..only to get lost in the wound.

It is in all respects, a "CS" generator wrapped around your finger.

The silver  dressings such as silverlon and acticoat are used
with small amounts of electrical current to produce the silver
ions in the wound.  Often used in burn wards now.

Ode

Re: CS>Silver dressings

[wanda85929]

Thats so simple and smart.   Why is it we so often have to make things harder 
than they have to be? 

Gail

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 12, 2015, at 8:09 PM, Neville  wrote:
> 
> I simply wet an ordinary bandaid, or bandage dependant on wound size, with 
> silver and place on wound.  That dressing is kept wet with silver using a 
> syringe as often as possible/feasible and is not removed for changing for 
> several days, as you say Jane.  I've always done this for any injury I've 
> ever had.  Of course I would consider an alternative treatment if my leg was 
> cut off .
> 
> I also did this for toenail fungus (haven't a bloody clue as to how I got 
> that?), sprayed directly on toe and wet the sock around the area of that toe 
> before putting shoe on each day.  Did this for a couple of weeks until I 
> considered the fungus was killed, it then took about 2-3 years for the nail 
> to regrow normally.  The silver may have killed it in a matter of days 
> however, I don't know?
> 
> N.
> 
> From: highfie...@internode.on.net
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: CS>Silver dressings
> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:05:13 +1000
> 
> I did wear the bandaid for several days and through a few washes otherwise 
> there was no skin break - but I knew it would do the trick & it did & yes I 
> have used silver dressings extensively for burns patients for many years 
> while I was nursing. I have to say I am disappointed it contains aluminium.
> 
> Jane
> 
> The silver bandaid has a layer interwoven with aluminum thread and another 
> one with silver thread.  When body fluids provide the electrolyte, a battery 
> effect is created which sends silver ions headed towards the aluminum..only 
> to get lost in the wound.
> 
> It is in all respects, a "CS" generator wrapped around your finger.
> 
> The silver  dressings such as silverlon and acticoat are used with small 
> amounts of electrical current to produce the silver ions in the wound.  Often 
> used in burn wards now.
> 
> Ode

RE: CS>Silver dressings

[Neville]

I simply wet an ordinary bandaid, or bandage dependant on wound size, with 
silver and place on wound.  That dressing is kept wet with silver using a 
syringe as often as possible/feasible and is not removed for changing for 
several days, as you say Jane.  I've always done this for any injury I've ever 
had.  Of course I would consider an alternative treatment if my leg was cut off 
.
I also did this for toenail fungus (haven't a bloody clue as to how I got 
that?), sprayed directly on toe and wet the sock around the area of that toe 
before putting shoe on each day.  Did this for a couple of weeks until I 
considered the fungus was killed, it then took about 2-3 years for the nail to 
regrow normally.  The silver may have killed it in a matter of days however, I 
don't know?

N.

From: highfie...@internode.on.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Silver dressings
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:05:13 +1000








I did wear the bandaid for 
several days and through a few washes otherwise there was no skin break - but I 
knew it would do the trick & it did & yes I have used silver dressings 
extensively for burns patients for many years while I was nursing. I have 
to say I am disappointed it contains aluminium.

Jane

  

  
  
  
  The silver bandaid has a layer interwoven with aluminum thread and 
  another one with silver thread.  When body fluids provide the 
  electrolyte, a battery effect is created which sends silver ions headed 
  towards the aluminum..only to get lost in the wound.

It is in all 
  respects, a "CS" generator wrapped around your finger.

The 
  silver  dressings such as silverlon and acticoat are used with small 
  amounts of electrical current to produce the silver ions in the wound.  
  Often used in burn wards 
now.

Ode
  

Re: CS>Silver dressings

[Jane MacRoss]

I did wear the bandaid for several days and through a few washes otherwise 
there was no skin break - but I knew it would do the trick & it did & yes I 
have used silver dressings extensively for burns patients for many years while 
I was nursing. I have to say I am disappointed it contains aluminium.

Jane


  The silver bandaid has a layer interwoven with aluminum thread and another 
one with silver thread.  When body fluids provide the electrolyte, a battery 
effect is created which sends silver ions headed towards the aluminum..only to 
get lost in the wound.


  It is in all respects, a "CS" generator wrapped around your finger.


  The silver  dressings such as silverlon and acticoat are used with small 
amounts of electrical current to produce the silver ions in the wound.  Often 
used in burn wards now.


  Ode

Re: CS>Silver dressings

[PT Ferrance]

Hi Ode,Is this anything worth trying to do at home with a couple of pieces of 
wire and a bandaid?Thanks.PT
   From: Ode Coyote 
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2015 2:21 AM
 Subject: Re: CS>Silver dressings
   
The silver bandaid has a layer interwoven with aluminum thread and another one 
with silver thread.  When body fluids provide the electrolyte, a battery effect 
is created which sends silver ions headed towards the aluminum..only to get 
lost in the wound.

It is in all respects, a "CS" generator wrapped around your finger.

The silver  dressings such as silverlon and acticoat are used with small 
amounts of electrical current to produce the silver ions in the wound.  Often 
used in burn wards now.

Ode



On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 12:39 AM, Jane MacRoss  
wrote:

Silver-containing foil dressings are used frequently these days in nursing - 
not CS I admit - however what interested me was that I could feel a reddened 
swelling at the tip of one of my fingers indicating the beginning of infection 
there & wrapped it in a silver containing bandaid and within two days the 
finger was completely clear with never any increase in infection or pain ... I 
just felt that silver, even being near infection, was enough to clear it & was 
pleased that in this case this was so.

Jane



  

Re: CS>Google, Lists, etc.

[Deborah Gerard]

Thank-you   


 On Wednesday, August 12, 2015 8:41 AM, Victor Cozzetto 
 wrote:
   

 Dear All,
After seeing a recent exchange, I felt it important to share my opinion about 
using Google, this list, and other sources.
I would strongly recommend that you do not rely solely on Google for answers. 
More and more, Google becomes just another arm of big business, as the search 
results are biased in many ways, and the information you seek is either not 
found, or hopelessly buried. Not to mention that 'googling' is a technique that 
requires some finesse.
In addition, most people do not realize the extents to which information is 
distorted on the web. Astroturfing and seeding are are very common practices 
that are used to suppress or discredit the information you seek. There are a 
great many tactics used by big business to mold the information that is out 
there. This applies to all information sources, including such things as 
product reviews on Amazon, etc.
Furthermore, even the best intended sources are sometimes holding back 
information, to avoid scrutiny, to find acceptance, to serve a specific 
purpose, or for some other reason. I even find myself hesitant on my own 
Vitagenics blog for various reasons.
In my opinion, there is no such thing as a stupid question, so I welcome any 
query or opinion that I see on this list. Even within these lists we must be 
vigilant against attempts to misdirect or derail our efforts, so lengthy 
conversations that include multiple trusted members are your best bet for 
sorting out truth; or at least getting an honest informed opinion.
Lastly, I would say, do not mistake silence for apathy on this mailing list, as 
I think most people here simply hold their tongue until they have something 
valuable to add.
I think this list is a very valuable resource, and it is fueled by questions, 
so never hesitate to ask. I am not the moderator, but that is my opinion.
Good health to all of you,Victorhttp://www.vitagenics.net

  

Re: CS>Google, Lists, etc.

[slickpicker]

"Lastly, I would say, do not mistake silence for apathy on this mailing list, 
as I think most people here simply hold their tongue until they have
something valuable to add."

Agreed!


 Victor Cozzetto  wrote: 

=
Dear All,

After seeing a recent exchange, I felt it important to share my opinion
about using Google, this list, and other sources.

I would strongly recommend that you do not rely solely on Google for
answers. More and more, Google becomes just another arm of big business, as
the search results are biased in many ways, and the information you seek is
either not found, or hopelessly buried. Not to mention that 'googling' is a
technique that requires some finesse.

In addition, most people do not realize the extents to which information is
distorted on the web. Astroturfing and seeding are are very common
practices that are used to suppress or discredit the information you seek.
There are a great many tactics used by big business to mold the information
that is out there. This applies to all information sources, including such
things as product reviews on Amazon, etc.

Furthermore, even the best intended sources are sometimes holding back
information, to avoid scrutiny, to find acceptance, to serve a specific
purpose, or for some other reason. I even find myself hesitant on my own
Vitagenics  blog for various reasons.

In my opinion, there is no such thing as a stupid question, so I welcome
any query or opinion that I see on this list. Even within these lists we
must be vigilant against attempts to misdirect or derail our efforts, so
lengthy conversations that include multiple trusted members are your best
bet for sorting out truth; or at least getting an honest informed opinion.

Lastly, I would say, do not mistake silence for apathy on this mailing
list, as I think most people here simply hold their tongue until they have
something valuable to add.

I think this list is a very valuable resource, and it is fueled by
questions, so never hesitate to ask. I am not the moderator, but that is my
opinion.

Good health to all of you,
Victor
http://www.vitagenics.net


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RE: CS>Google, Lists, etc.

[Neville]

Hear, hear, I'll drink to that.
N.

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 08:40:56 -0400
From: victor.cozze...@gmail.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>Google, Lists, etc.

Dear All,
After seeing a recent exchange, I felt it important to share my opinion about 
using Google, this list, and other sources.
I would strongly recommend that you do not rely solely on Google for answers. 
More and more, Google becomes just another arm of big business, as the search 
results are biased in many ways, and the information you seek is either not 
found, or hopelessly buried. Not to mention that 'googling' is a technique that 
requires some finesse.
In addition, most people do not realize the extents to which information is 
distorted on the web. Astroturfing and seeding are are very common practices 
that are used to suppress or discredit the information you seek. There are a 
great many tactics used by big business to mold the information that is out 
there. This applies to all information sources, including such things as 
product reviews on Amazon, etc.
Furthermore, even the best intended sources are sometimes holding back 
information, to avoid scrutiny, to find acceptance, to serve a specific 
purpose, or for some other reason. I even find myself hesitant on my own 
Vitagenics blog for various reasons.
In my opinion, there is no such thing as a stupid question, so I welcome any 
query or opinion that I see on this list. Even within these lists we must be 
vigilant against attempts to misdirect or derail our efforts, so lengthy 
conversations that include multiple trusted members are your best bet for 
sorting out truth; or at least getting an honest informed opinion.
Lastly, I would say, do not mistake silence for apathy on this mailing list, as 
I think most people here simply hold their tongue until they have something 
valuable to add.
I think this list is a very valuable resource, and it is fueled by questions, 
so never hesitate to ask. I am not the moderator, but that is my opinion.
Good health to all of you,Victorhttp://www.vitagenics.net   
  

Re: CS>? on eye pressure / Coleus

[Jane MacRoss]

There are a heap of article on google Frank - don't think I have a link 
currently available for you (most of my random references are in my FB group 
& I'm on a 3 month sabbatical)


Jane





Jane Could you please provide references?
Frank



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List Owner: Mike Devour 

CS>Google, Lists, etc.

[Victor Cozzetto]

Dear All,

After seeing a recent exchange, I felt it important to share my opinion
about using Google, this list, and other sources.

I would strongly recommend that you do not rely solely on Google for
answers. More and more, Google becomes just another arm of big business, as
the search results are biased in many ways, and the information you seek is
either not found, or hopelessly buried. Not to mention that 'googling' is a
technique that requires some finesse.

In addition, most people do not realize the extents to which information is
distorted on the web. Astroturfing and seeding are are very common
practices that are used to suppress or discredit the information you seek.
There are a great many tactics used by big business to mold the information
that is out there. This applies to all information sources, including such
things as product reviews on Amazon, etc.

Furthermore, even the best intended sources are sometimes holding back
information, to avoid scrutiny, to find acceptance, to serve a specific
purpose, or for some other reason. I even find myself hesitant on my own
Vitagenics  blog for various reasons.

In my opinion, there is no such thing as a stupid question, so I welcome
any query or opinion that I see on this list. Even within these lists we
must be vigilant against attempts to misdirect or derail our efforts, so
lengthy conversations that include multiple trusted members are your best
bet for sorting out truth; or at least getting an honest informed opinion.

Lastly, I would say, do not mistake silence for apathy on this mailing
list, as I think most people here simply hold their tongue until they have
something valuable to add.

I think this list is a very valuable resource, and it is fueled by
questions, so never hesitate to ask. I am not the moderator, but that is my
opinion.

Good health to all of you,
Victor
http://www.vitagenics.net

Re: CS>? on eye pressure

[Frank Cuns-Rial]

Jane Could you please provide references?
Frank

On 8/11/2015 10:25 AM, Jane MacRoss wrote:

The Herbal Tincture 'Coleus' is the traditional herbal treatment for
normalizing eye pressure

Jane
Hello everyone,


Can I please get you to advise on a friend who is trying to keep eye
pressure down? Will CS help with this? I read that Echinacea drops
are helpful in drainage.
Thanks so much in advance,

Debbie




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Re: CS>? on eye pressure

[Dee]

Who are we talking about here, as I seem to have lost track?  I thought Lena 
gave a reasonable answerDee

Sent from my iPad

> On 12 Aug 2015, at 01:33, Deborah Gerard  wrote:
> 
> Why do you bother being in the group if you don't want to share what you have 
> found with others that are seeking solutions...if your so burdened shut off 
> the whole world and keep all you findings to your selfish self.
> I am very thankful to those here that don't think I am a burden because I am 
> seeking relief from suffering for my friends and myself to in turn gladly 
> share with anyone that is seeking help...I don't see that as a burden. It's 
> called compassion you should try it sometime!! 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, August 11, 2015 6:48 PM, Lena Guyot  wrote:
> 
> 
> Of course! It's just nice to start with one's own efforts before taxing 
> online efforts of others. Many are struggling in their own fight and haven't 
> time to provide basics that are readily available. 
> I finally realized this when I had to seriously limit time spent on a 
> computer with difficult eye issues straining eyes, posture, etc..  
> 
> And as people recover from serious illness, with a lot of 'normal' healthy 
> time already lost, they also have a lot of catching up on their own lives. 
> After 9 years of painstakingly coaching scared newbies with health issues, I 
> hope others may fill my shoes, as time grows short, energy limited, and other 
> things are calling to be done.
> 
> Be well,
> Léna
>> On Aug 11, 2015, at 1:41 PM, Deborah Gerard wrote:
>> 
>> I thought part of the homework was asking people in the group?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, August 11, 2015 9:52 AM, Lena Guyot  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Google can be helpful if one uses it for consensus. 
>> If enough places cite the validity of something, chances are better that 
>> it's useful. 
>> Most of us do a LOT of homework to heal ourselves. 
>> The only things I know about eye pressure are the following:
>> 
>> If the Iris is at a narrow angle to the cornea, and there's a sudden 
>> dilation, either from going from sunlight to darkness, or chemical dilation, 
>> a condition called acute angle glaucoma can result with fairly dire 
>> consequences within hours. Many people require iridotomies before dilation 
>> for safety to allow pressures to equalize.
>> 
>> After cataract surgery, it is recommended that one not bend over to the 
>> point where the eye is below the heart to minimize pressure in eye, and not 
>> to lift anything over 20lb, for the same reason.
>> 
>> Be well,
>> Léna
>> 
>>> On Aug 10, 2015, at 8:45 PM, Deborah Gerard wrote:
>>> 
>>> I know I can google just about anything but who knows what site is 
>>> truthful...I trust peoples comments here better.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Monday, August 10, 2015 8:28 PM, Lola Harris  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I have never heard of CS helping with glaucoma either.
>>> Guess someone could google for information on alternatives
>>> to treat glaucoma?
>>> Lola
>>> 
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: Marshall 
>>> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
>>> Sent: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 20:23:04 -0400 (EDT)
>>> Subject: Re: CS>? on eye pressure
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I believe you are talking about glaucoma.  CS will not help with it
>>> as far as I know.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Marshall
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 8/10/2015 2:06 PM, Deborah Gerard wrote:
>>> Hello everyone,
>>> 
>>> Can I please
>>> get you to advise on a friend who is trying to keep eye
>>> pressure down? Will CS help with this? I read that Echinacea
>>> drops are helpful in drainage.
>>> Thanks so
>>> much in advance,
>>> 
>>> Debbie 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
>