RE: CS> FDA goes after Colloidal Silver sites (close ranks)

[Gary Hawkins]

> So, our the testimonial and description information will be made, by FDA
> order, unavailable through conventional means. But I will present the data
> on the information site such as I am legally able under freedom of speech
> laws. This will allow everyone to legally continue to participate in the
> quality of the presentation and our movement.

So, it sounds like you were one of the 16.  I'd sure like to see a list 
of the URL's targeted, to hope to glean some sort of impression as to 
what they did, and a copy of the FDA letter.

Health food stores sell CS, so I really don't understand, unless 
they are merely asking that extraordinary claims be toned down.

What is the official definition of a drug?

Gary


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CS>FW: [IAHF] FDA goes after Colloidal Silver sites, IAHF Identifies Existence of Avalanche Software on this PLANET

[Gary Hawkins]

Hoax?

-Original Message-
From: International Advocates for Health Freedom (by way of
censored] 
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 12:09 PM
To: Recipient list suppressed
Subject: [IAHF] FDA goes after Colloidal Silver sites, IAHF Identifies
Existence of Avalanche Software on this PLANET



>>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 08:02:52 -0500
>>From: [censored]
>>To: [fo ME to KNOW, fo YA'LL to try to FIND OUT!!!]
>>Cc: supreme...@egroups.com
>>Subject: FDA goes after Colloidal Silver sites
>>User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i
>>Sender: [censored]
>>
>>
>>FDA charges websites with illegal silver promotion
>>
>>WASHINGTON, Nov 06 (Reuters Health) - The US Food and Drug
>>Administration (FDA) has cracked down on 16 websites for
>>illegally promoting the dietary supplement colloidal silver as a
>>drug.
>>In letters to the companies, the FDA says its review of the
>>websites has concluded that colloidal silver and other products
>>are promoted for conditions that may cause them to be drugs.
>>   The claims the 16 websites make, such as touting colloidal
>>silver as an antibiotic, antifungal, burn treatment or cure-all,
>>"establish their intended use as drugs," the agency says.
>>   "FDA is aware that Internet distributors may not know that the
>>products they offer are regulated as drugs or that these drugs
>>are not in compliance with the law," the agency says in the
>>letters, noting that "many of these products may be legally
>>marketed as dietary supplements or as cosmetics if certain
>>therapeutic claims are removed from the promotional materials."
>>Reuters Health called the operators of several of the websites
>>on Monday, but none returned the calls.
>>
>>Copyright  2000 Reuters Limited.
>>
>>- End forwarded message -
>>
>>--
>>
>>  -- Jeff --   
>>
>>  "There's nothing left in the world to prove.  All that's worth doing
>>   is to love one another, using whatever means are available to serve."

International Advocates for Health Freedom
http://www.iahf.com, email: j...@iahf.com



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Re: CS and zapping

[Gary Hawkins]

At 08:48 AM 11/12/98 -0800, you wrote:


>keep it on all day.  You should be able to tell the difference in a
>couple of days.  Check out scabies on the web and see if it sounds like
>the culprit.  The sulphur cream smothers them out. Hope this helps.
>Chris

What is commonality between silver and sulphur in their ability to kill 
pathogens and bugs?

Gary Hawkins

=== SILVER ===

Name: Silver
Pronounced: SIL-ver
Symbol: Ag
Name origin: Anglo-Saxon: siolful, (silver); symbol from Latin: argentium.
Description: Silvery-ductile, and malleable metal
Discovered by: Known to the ancients.
Year: Unknown
Location: Unknown
Sources: Found in ores called argentite (AgS), light ruby silver (Ag3AsS3), 
dark ruby silver(Ag3SbS3) and brittle silver.
Uses: Used in alloys for jewelry and in other compounds for photography. It is 
also a good conductor, but expensive.

Element Nuclides: 
Nuclide Abundance   Weight  SpinHalf-life   Decay Modes
Ag105   0%  105 1/2 41.3d   EC,b+
Ag105m  0%  105 7/2 7.2mIT,EC
Ag106m  0%  106 6   8.4dEC
Ag107   51.82%  106.905 1/2 Stable
Ag108   0%  108 1   2.39m   b-,EC,b+
Ag108m  0%  108 6   130yEC,b+,IT
Ag109   48.18%  108.905 1/2 Stable
Ag109m  0%  109 7/2 39.8s   IT
Ag110   0%  110 1   24.6s   b-,EC
Ag110m  0%  110 6   249.8d  b-,IT
Ag111   0%  111 1/2 7.47d   b-

Group: Transition Metal
Crystal Structure: Cubic: Face centered
Lattice parm. a: 4.0863 Å
Lattice parm. b: 
Lattice parm. c or axial angle: 
Atomic number: 47
Atomic weight: 107.8682
Shells: 2,8,18,18,1
Orbitals: [Kr] 4d10 5s1
Melting point: 961.93°C
Boiling point: 2162°C
Electronegativity: 1.93
Covalent radius: 1.34 Å
Ionic radius: 1.15 (+1) Å
Atomic radius: 1.75 Å
Atomic volume: 10.3 cm³/mol
First ionization potential: 7.5762 V
Second ionization potential: 21.49 V
Third ionization potential: 34.83 V
Oxydation states: 1
Density @ 293 K: 10.5 g/cm³
Specific heat: 0.235 J/gK
Heat of vaporization: 250.580 kJ/mol
Heat of fusion: 11.30 kJ/mol
Electrical conductivity: 0.630 10^6/cm ohm
Thermal conductivity: 4.29 W/cmK
Modulus of elasticity: 80 10³ MPa
Coeficient of therm. exp.: 18.9 10^-6 K^-1
Valence: 1,2
User1:  
User2:  
User3:  
KA  KB  LA  LB  MA
eV  22105.9 24943.2 2984.41 3151.05 0   0
Å   0.56087 0.4970714.15444 3.93473 0   0
K   L-I L-IIL-III   M-I M-IIM-III   M-IVM-V
eV  25514   3806352433520   0   0   402.2   398.1
Å   0.48595 3.25763 3.51831 3.69885 0   0   0   30.8268 31.1443
KA  KB  LA  LB  MA  MB  83% 0%  6.3%
0%  0%  0%

=== SULFUR ===

Name: Sulfur
Pronounced: SUL-fer
Symbol: S
Name origin: Latin: sulphur (brimstone).
Description: Tasteless, odorless, pale yellow, brittle solid. Tenth most 
abundant element in the universe.
Discovered by: Known to the ancients.
Year: Unknown
Location: Unknown
Sources: Found in pure form and in ores like cinnabar, galena, sphalerite and 
stibnite. Pure form is obtained from undergound deposits by the Frasch process.
Uses: Used in matches, gunpowder, medicines, rubber and pesticides, dyes and 
insecticides. Also for making sulfuric acid (H2SO4).

Element Nuclides: 
Nuclide Abundance   Weight  SpinHalf-life   Decay Modes
S32 95.02%  31.9721 0   Stable
S33 0.76%   32.9714 3/2 Stable
S34 4.22%   33.9679 0   Stable
S35 0%  34.969  3/2 87.2d   b-
S36 0.014%  35.9671 0   Stable

Group: Non-Metal
Crystal Structure: Orthorhombic
Lattice parm. a: 10.4650 Å
Lattice parm. b: 12.8665 Å
Lattice parm. c or axial angle: 24.4869 Å
Atomic number: 16
Atomic weight: 32.066
Shells: 2,8,6
Orbitals: [Ne] 3s2 3p4
Melting point: 115.21°C
Boiling point: 444.6°C
Electronegativity: 2.58
Covalent radius: 1.02 Å
Ionic radius: .29 (+6) Å
Atomic radius: 1.09 Å
Atomic volume: 15.5 cm³/mol
First ionization potential: 10.3600 V
Second ionization potential: 23.33 V
Third ionization potential: 34.83 V
Oxydation states: ±2,4,(6)
Density @ 293 K: 2.07 g/cm³
Specific heat: 0.71 J/gK
Heat of vaporization: --
Heat of fusion: 1.7175 kJ/mol
Electrical conductivity: 0.5e-23 10^6/cm ohm
Thermal conductivity: 0.00269 W/cmK
Modulus of elasticity: 19 10³ MPa
Coeficient of therm. exp.: 70 10^-6 K^-1
Valence: 2,4,6
User1:  
User2:  
User3:  
KA  KB  LA  LB  MA
eV  2307.52 2464.14 0   0   0   0
Å   5.3731  5.03159 0   0   0   0
K   L-I L-IIL-III   M-I M-IIM-III   M-IVM-V
eV  24720   0   165 0   0   0   0   0
Å   5.01559 0   0   75.1427 0   0   0   0   0
KA  KB

Re: CS>Re: CS and pregnancy

[Gary Hawkins]

At 09:16 PM 10/8/98 EDT, rickst...@aol.com wrote:
>Hi Brooks Bradley and all
>.
>Please don't shoot the messenger.  I am only reporting others research.  I

Weathermen should be fined if they report anything other than sunshine.

gary hawkins


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Re: How much silver did I drink

[Gary Hawkins]

Thanks Bob Lee!!

At 09:05 PM 4/11/98 -0500, angelina lee wrote:
>Greeting to all astute silver makers and users,
>
>  A friend of mine asked,"How much silver is in that spoon of CS." Told
>him I didn`t know ,but would calculate it for him. This is what I did
>and you can too. This is going to be technical but try it any way, your
>probably smarter than you thought.
>
>  We will start buy determining what a *chemical equivalent* is.
>
> The chemical equivalent is the atomic weight of an element divided by
>its valence number. That will be  (w)/ (z).
> atomic weight  =w
> valence no.=z  
> Look at this Table:
>atomic weight in grams valence number  
>   Cu  copper   63.57  +2
>   Ag  silver  107.88  +1
>   Au  gold196.97  +1
>
>This will give us :
>  Cu  copper 63.57/2=31.785   ( one chemical equivalent)
>  Ag  silver107.88/1=107.88   ( one chemical equivalent)
>  Au  gold  196.97/1=196.97   ( one chemical equivalent)
>   
>The quantity of electricity to liberate *one chemical equivalent* of
>a substance can be found this way.




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Re: Digest form?

[Gary Hawkins]

At 08:28 AM 1/9/98 PST, you wrote:
>Is there a way to get this list in Digest form?  It sure would make 
>reading easier.  Hopefully it will get back to CS.
>je
>
>__
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>

To:  silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com
Subject:  subscribe

That's how you get the digest.

Gary Hawkins

Re: MSM Sulpher

[Gary Hawkins]

At 02:47 PM 1/5/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi again,
>
>Has anyone used MSM Sulphur? and what did you use it for and did you use it
>with CS?

Heard of it.  I believe that would be Methyl Sulfonyl Methylate, 
developed by the same person who developed DMSO.  A girl 
who had part of a finger cut off used it to soak the finger 
after the slice was sewed back on, and she actually has 
feeling in again, and one has to look real close to see 
only a bit of a hairline scar.  In this case it was 
used with CS, mineral water, and some other things.

Some people claim great results with MSM and teeth, 
though I have not actually seen that, or done anything 
with it.

But sulphur seems to me another one of those deserving merit 
for a very close look in relation to healing.

Gary Hawkins

I think we'll have a new owner

[Gary Hawkins]

I believe someone is lining up for taking over this list.  One of us 
will let you all know if the transfer takes place.  There would be 
no need for any of you to do anything, address stays the same.

Gary Hawkins

Phoenix

[Gary Hawkins]

If anyone has any objections to D. Richard Kamus taking over this list, 
please email me privately.  In the meantime, the field is still open, 
in case any of you are interested, in case that falls through for some reason.

Gary Hawkins

This list goes down in seven days

[Gary Hawkins]

>about religion. It just seemed to me that the first time that woman posted
>anything, she was removed.
>

I am not interested in being involved with people willing to make 
such irresponsible speculations on a list intended for colloidal 
silver discussions, nor in being involved with people that appear 
more interested in continual trench warfare and jihads than in 
discussing the topic at hand.  There are a large number of you on the 
list who are very quiet, so please understand that this comment is not 
intended to apply to you, or to many of the others of you who have emailed 
me privately, and this is not a blanket statement about those who have 
posted messages to the list.

This list will be taken offline in seven days (or thereabouts, 
as I am in the process of moving).  During that time, the opportunity 
exists for someone to start a new list, and post a message to this one on 
how to join the new one, before this list is gone.

This is in lieu of the other option, which I will not be 
pursuing, which would have been to suspend Jade from the 
list for the off-topic post containing the accusation which 
can easily be considered a 'flame' [From Rule #1: "...inflamatory 
targetting of individuals..." e.g. in this case, me].  This list 
will be discontinued instead of suspending Jade, because there is 
a possibility that Jade is a female.  The suspension of female for 
an off-topic post--when I have definitively asked that such complaints 
be directly to me personally rather than to the list--will obviously 
result in the gender card being played again.  I have no interest in 
such ruthless games.

So goodbye to all of you.  I regret that a few immature people unable to 
behave themselves like ladies and gentlemen exercising discression had to 
result in this demise and the unfortunate results for this list.  

I think that colloidal silver has some great merits, and holds great promise 
for sensibly dealing with various maladies.  There is a great need for a 
scientific and logical approach in its development.  Such a framework for 
progress cannot proceed in the atmosphere that has developed here.

Good Luck in 1998,

Gary Hawkins

Config change

[Gary Hawkins]

Heads up on a configuration change I made.  The Silver and Rife lists 
have not been the same on hitting 'Reply'.  On this list the address 
filled in has been the list address.  To make these consistent, this list has 
been changed.  When you reply to a message on the list, the address of 
the person who sent the message to the list should now be the default.  
If you prefer that your reply go to the list, it will be necessary to fill 
in 'silver-list@eskimo.com on the 'To:' line.

Hopefully this will prevent some confusion for those on both lists, like 
me for example.  :-D

Gary Hawkins

Re: Gone

[Gary Hawkins]

>Then when she defends her beliefs to the bigot, she gets the axe.
>Something is wrong with this picture.
> Have a really NICE year...
>Marsha, furious in Milwaukee
>
>

I didn't mention her name and it was only a two week suspension for 
engaging in the off-topic religious debate, which is not what this is about.

Let me know when your list is ready.  I'll take this one down and you can be 
the one to have to deal with this extraneous nonsense.

Gary Hawkins

Re: Gone

[Gary Hawkins]

>I got the impression that someone was removed, just because they objected
>once to a religious diatribe.

One objection on the subject of religion too easily results 
in another objection by someone else, ad infinitum, not our 
purpose here.  And by the way, why didn't you send that to 
me personally, instead of requiring another off topic post, 
this time by me to explain.  If you want a further discussion, 
please do so privately.  This is not a forum for religious debate.

Gary Hawkins

RULES

[Gary Hawkins]

  SILVER LIST
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  RULES

No Flames, Attachments, or Spamming:

1.  No Flames (inflammatory targeting of individuals often intended 
to escalate).  The Newsgroups provide a place where such behavior can 
be engaged in.  On this list, it is not acceptable, and will result 
in suspension based on my evaluation of the situation, or permanent 
removal, with or without warning, depending.  As a member of this list, 
if you feel someone is being disruptive, please email me.

2.  No Attachments (files such as images, executables, or other 
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Sending attachments to the list results in an automatic two week suspension.

3.  No Spamming (advertisements with no relation to the subject here).  
Colloidal Silver related ads are fine.  If you are not sure, ask 
me first:  gh...@eskimo.com
Spammers will be locked out immediately, as soon as I can get to it.

Re: clarification please

[Gary Hawkins]

At 07:56 PM 12/30/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Mr Hawkins,
> "Dear Mr. Scott Berner,
>You  *** ** * *"
>These words were addressed to Scott Berner by Robert Ray. Is this an
>acceptable manner of greeting for this list? If so I will start using
>it. If not please inform us of Ray's forced departure from the list.
>   Thanks in advance,
>   Paul Bass
>
>

Granted.  30 days.

Gary Hawkins

Suspension

[Gary Hawkins]

I have suspended another person who made off topic 
comments about religion on this list, and will 
continue to cut people until the subject returns 
to colloidal silver.

Gary Hawkins

Gone

[Gary Hawkins]

I have just bumped Scott Berner from this list.

There are still 113 people on the list.

In the future, if any of you feel someone is being disruptive or in some way 
derailing the goal of intelligent and civil discussion to help clarify the 
topic at hand, please email me directly, privately.  That is the best and 
quickest way for me to become aware of it.

Thank you,

Gary Hawkins

RE: Last postings...

[Gary Hawkins]

At 02:05 AM 12/21/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Reid I assume you meant Naessens, as in Gaston Naessens? You said "Rife and 
>Nassen." 
>
>Which prompts me to ask:
>1) Is there a Naessens mailing list or group?

Not that I know of, but you could start one.

>2) I should have asked this long ago...how do I join the Rife list?

Send an email to:

rife-list-requ...@eskimo.com

...with the subject:

subscribe



Gary Hawkins 
--
Horizon Technology Tomorrow's Technology Today
http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/  Seattle, WA
--

Re: The Silver List

[Gary Hawkins]

>his actions are anything but christlike.   I am not asking that he be 
>removed from the list, but that he be asked to keep all his religious 
>comments to the area below his name, or not to use them at all.  He 
>should also be instructed to send negative personal responses in 
>PRIVATE and not to the rest of the group.  If he will not 
>tolerate any party line other than his own, then he should 
>start his own E-mail list.

So let it be, that is, Amen, but with one caviat:  Private messages 
to someone on the list, if personal attacks (and I'm not accusing 
anyone here, but merely stating this in general) are also reason 
for someone to be removed, as that would be disruptive.  I just 
simply hope Scott will like the idea of setting up another list 
on this.

Gary Hawkins

Oy Vey

[Gary Hawkins]

I could just about pull my hair out.  I didn't mean for that message 
to Scott to go to the list.

Oh well I guess.  Life with all its foibles, we're having some kind of fun huh?

Appreciate Mark's comments.  Hope Scott is not offended by my comment on 
enthusiasm/mania, because, as pointed out, it can be an essential element 
for progress sometimes.

It might be an unfortunate problem that resolutions to many of the debates 
would require some extremely well-controlled studies.  I don't know what 
the answers are, but would like to see them emerge.  But the noise to 
signal ratio is high, and there has to be some solution (no pun intended).

If I were to pony up my personal opinion, I might point out that I already 
know those scriptures by heart thank you very much.

But far beyond the noise of my own opinion, when Scott checks his email 
I do hope he takes me up on a run with his own list on this topic.  
Macintosh-Microsoft, Bel-AT&T, Times-P.I., Boeing-Airbus, Conserative-Liberal, 
a little competition, it's in style.  If this particular list won out, 
I could consider a hostile takeover, ha ha.  Will have to run that by the 
shareholders if they don't all jump ship.

Sad watching a human brain fry isn't it.

Gary

New List

[Gary Hawkins]

>You are too kind Mike! I guess it is either shape up or ship out! :) I have
>been thinking about starting my own list, 

I would like to help you do that.  It only costs $5/month on Eskimo, and 
you can start a list relatively easily.  I have helped one other person 
get one started.  No need for a dial up connection there, so no long 
distance required.  It doesn't matter where you are.  Everything can 
be done with the magic of telnet and ftp.  What say you?  OK?

One man's enthusiasm is sometimes another man's mania.  Some folks 
are floored by your enthusiasm.  

It really wouldn't matter to me a whole lot if everyone moved from 
this list over to a list run by you.  

>by the way. I can get a lot more
>done without all this infantile "competition" from those who barely know
>"argyria from a pancreatic fluke". :) I will be here until Gary Hawkins
>asks me to leave, by the way. It is his list! It is also this very type of
>debating that got me asked to leave the Rife List with the subject of
>colloidal silver, and Gary was kind enough to start up this list for more
>of the same. Thanks Gary!
>A lot has been accomplished over the last year or so, and I am in this for
>the duration. (even if I have to start my own list!:)

So Scott, I really think it would do some things for colloidal silver if 
you were to start your own list.  You would be able to promote it on your 
web pages.  People doing searches on the subject would find out about your 
list through the web.  I think it is 10 meg of web page space that also 
comes with that $5/mo on Eskimo.  You can use any FTP program to move 
pages around.  The list name can be anything you want to call it.  Your 
login on Eskimo would determine your webpage address, such as mine, 
shown below, unless you were to obtain your own domain name, which 
would then override, so that "eskimo" need not show.

Ready?  I'll be happy to shine a little flashlight on the path and 
help you get it going.

Please let me know what you think.

Gary Hawkins 
--
Horizon Technology Tomorrow's Technology Today
http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/  Seattle, WA
--

The Silver List

[Gary Hawkins]

Howdy folks,

I haven't been posting much here, and I have pretty much let this 
list run its own course.  Every once in awhile I check in, and 
find some bickering going on.  Debate on issues is alright but 
when it gets personal no good comes of it.

Perhaps some weeding needs to be done.  For those of you on the 
list for the purpose of discussing colloidal silver, if there is 
a particular individual on the list that you would prefer not be 
there, send an email directly to me with your thoughts.  If 
several people agree that any one person is causing more than 
their share of trouble, I will read their posts and consider 
cutting them from the list.

In the meantime, for those who think email means they don't 
have to behave themselves, and see it as a opportunity to 
cut loose and denigrade others, I urge you to think otherwise.  
The subject is served best by civil discourse, and I would 
rather lose you than have the subject smeared with your lack 
of civility.

Btw, an FYI that I just realized:  It is the listserve 
software that is filling in "Unidentified Subject!" when 
someone sends a message to the list without a subject filled 
in.  I find that a bit irritating, but have no way to change it.  
Previously I had thought it was some particular piece of email
software out there, until it happened to me, but not with a 
message to myself, only to a list run by *this software* on the 
server (called "Smartlist", perhaps a misnomer it would sometimes seem).

Gary Hawkins

Re: research

[Gary Hawkins]

>RESULTS
>The cultlure plate that had the original colloidal silver solution added had 
>no inhibition of growth at all.  The culture that had the fresh colloidal 
>silver solution added had zones of inhibited growth around all areas except 
>the areas where there was less than three (3) drops of solution added.

Thank you for that.  

Could it be concluded from this that the number of bacteria 
overwhelmed the concentration of CS, where less than 3 drops were used?  
Or does a low concentration have no effect.  Possibly not easy to 
determine by the eye.

Would be interesting if a video could be produced from a microscope 
at the moment pathogens come in contact with colloidal silver solution.  
Especially interesting if they are seen to disintegrate.

Gary Hawkins

Re: Archives anywhere?

[Gary Hawkins]

At 09:20 AM 6/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm new to the list and was wondering if there are archives of
>this list.  If so, could someone please point me to them?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bob
>
>

Only if someone else is archiving them.  I am not.

Any volunteers?

Gary Hawkins 
--
Horizon Technology   Tomorrow's Technology Today
http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/Seattle, WA
--

Re: cramping

[Gary Hawkins]

At 03:10 PM 6/16/97 -0400, you wrote:

>when taking much smaller doses did note some cramping.  Neither of us
>noted any diarrhea.  So the chances are the intestinal flora was not
>affected.  

Cannot temporary diarrhea be a good thing to jettison garbage?  Much 
like a runny nose, which I believe the body resorts to as a means to 
flush toxins when it needs to.

Just a thought.  Millions of dead microbodies, might as well get rid of 
them.  But the question of course is how many of the good guys died 
from the bombing.

Gary

Re: fda /cattle

[Gary Hawkins]

At 03:06 AM 6/13/97 +, you wrote:

"FDA has received reports ..."  

Isn't that called "hearsay"?

"FDA is not aware of any substantial scientific evidence..."

I would like to suggest that they find some.

"...not generally recognized as safe and effective..."

Very cleverly worded, but unconvincing.  Based on opinion.

"...a potentially serious public health concern because of the 
possibility of residues in milk or meat."

For those who eat their pets?  On cattle, yes, so 
then ban it for use on cattle that will be eaten.

Don't we need to also outlaw silver jewelry?  
Residues, you know.

"...may result in argyria..."

Or may not.  They don't know?
Sex may result in aging.  I don't know, but it may, sometimes,
so it should really be banned.

"...including pets) could potentially endanger..."

Yes, and deception, unsubstantiated scare tactics, 
and lack of honor could potentially endanger our nation.

"...silver-containing products have not been approved by FDA..."

Well, there they are correct in not actively endorsing 
something over which they are...

"not aware of any substantial scientific evidence".

Note:  I am not promoting the use of colloidal silver.  I don't use it.
If I saw some proof that people are being harmed by it, 
I would speak against it.  But the arguements being used 
are unconvincing, and could easily go a different way, such as:

"We at the FDA are not aware of any substantial scientific evidence 
that any harm has occurred in contemporary times through 
the use of moderate levels of colloidal silver.  We have 
heard various rumors.  When we can provide you with proof 
one way or the other, we will take a stand on the issue.  
Until then, people who engage in the use of these products 
do so at their own risk.  Currently we are working 
hard to insure that our decision on this matter will be fully 
documented and certain, so that there will be no question 
about this issue for anyone willing to look at the data."

Ah but I am a dreamer.  [Yeah, right buddy, when cows fly].

Gary Hawkins

Dangers that must be stopped

[Gary Hawkins]

This is an alert regarding the serious dangers that 
all too many people are totally unaware of, and how 
they are routinely placing themselves blindly in the 
face of harm's way.  Such irresponsible actions by 
individuals are a threat to the free enterprise system, 
God, country, and a whole bunch of other stuff.

Irresponsible people decide for themselves how much 
they will eat.  This harmful behavior causes many to 
become fat as hogs.  Others die or get skinny as rails 
due to their poor choices.  Obviously, this behavior 
needs to be regulated by the National Dietary Safety 
Board to root out this threat.

Routinely, people decide to go on vacations in cars, 
planes or boats.  Statistics show that such excursions 
have not been proven completely safe and effective.  
Therefore, it is essential that these decisions 
regarding where and when an individual or said group 
of individuals will travel be made by a qualified 
team of experts who will carefully weigh the income, 
intelligence levels, and risk factors based on 
distance, destination, and proposed means of travel 
to determine who may or may not be allowed to engage 
in such ventures.

Studies have shown that people are making their own 
decisions on when to cross streets.  Effective 
immediately, armed guards must be posted at all 
commonly used pedestrian crossings to insure that 
individuals do not cross when cars are coming.  This 
will prevent them from further injury that would 
otherwise have occurred, costing taxpayers if they 
did not have street-crossing insurance.

Fortunately, most everyone is cooperating nicely in the 
requirement for air-breathing.  Rebels in this particular 
arena are relatively rare, and thus this cause need not be 
attended to at this time, as the danger to the population 
at large for the self-endangering practice of air-deprivation 
currently remains at low and determinably acceptable levels.

Legislation for the important and highly understated matter 
of required safety harnesses for bathtubs must be pushed 
through congress as quickly as possible.  Far too many 
people are dying or becoming seriously impaired due to 
physical injury for lack of regulations governing the 
proper technique and procedure in the practice of bath-taking.
A training program should be implemented immediately to train 
all Americans, in the hands of qualified instructors.

Unfortunately the numbers of people who dare to make their 
own decisions, and who think they have this right are still 
too high.  This needs to be addressed.  Agents in the cause 
are advised to resist the temptation to see others as equals.  
In a moment of weakness it would be all too easy to forget 
that control of them is the prime objective.  Their initiative, 
stubbornness, and tendency toward self-governing and self-will 
is the only thing standing in the way of a consumation and 
fulfillment of our own ego self-glory desires for power and 
control.  So take it to 'em, we've got them in our sights. 
Easy pickin's from this point.

Control Central

Re: archive?

[Gary Hawkins]

At 02:11 PM 6/7/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Please, don't answer all at once, but is there
>an archive for this list, and how would one
>access it?
>
>Kirk
>
>

Actually, no archive.  But if someone wants to 
set one up, and doesn't have all of the messages saved, 
I could send what I've got.

Gary Hawkins

Re: Silver Research?

[Gary Hawkins]

To quote a sadly infamized phrase:

   "Can't we all just get along?"

Guess not.  But in the mean time, please keep in mind... 

There is nothing quite so respectable in an atmosphere 
of debate than reasoned dispassionate unselfish 
presentation of objective information for all to benefit from.

By the same token, there is nothing quite so quickly 
disrespected than ad hominem.

One side perceives the other as having an unspoken ulterior 
motive to prevent them from access to an inexpensive 
resource, and they perceive in the other side a desperate 
fear of losing control, and losing a source of income.

The other side appears to want to convince them of harm, 
convince them for their own good, and paint them as foolish.

Whichever side be wrong, let it be brought to light.  And let 
the fact be brought to light that most of us do well recognize 
that the side which is wrong is the one that always resorts 
to any means it can find outside of the presentation of 
reasoned information.

Either true benefits for colloidal silver can be demonstrated, 
or the other side should be able to prove harm.

Lacking either of those, a tug of war to see whose willpower 
is strongest over the other is a waste of time, 
except for its value in the observance of human nature in 
the struggle of one group's "wants" over another.

So, can we up the value of real data here a bit?  For those 
into anger, I suggest boxing as an alternative outlet.

Gary Hawkins


PS  There is an easy way to recognize a good man.  He does not 
tell another man the sky is blue.  He *shows* him.

Wayne Green on the Art Bell show

[Gary Hawkins]

Last night a repeat of a Wayne Green interview with Art Bell 
was aired.  Green spoke very highly of colloidal silver.

Gary 
--
Horizon Technology   Tomorrow's Technology Today
http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/Seattle, WA
--

Re: Laser Test

[Gary Hawkins]

>same container in the same position for all your tests it might work ok =
>change nothing in the setup but the contents of the container, so what you
>see changing is just the effect of the contents, not anything else.

In that case, might want to glue the glass to a piece of wood, and 
mount the laser to the board.  Would then be able to turn the whole 
thing over to pour out one sample and put another one in, without 
any change in position of the glass container relative to the laser.

Gary 
--
Horizon Technology   Tomorrow's Technology Today
http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/Seattle, WA
--
Wondrous women
   Make me swim in
  Lofty thoughts alot.
 /-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\

Beverley

[Gary Hawkins]

Not sure if the program that operates this list is fully 
functioning properly, as a message from you-know-who appears 
to have come through.  Will look into it.

In the meantime, someone on the list had some kind words, 
that I thought worthy of passing along to you, below:

Gary

>I also wish to congratulate and thank other List members
>for their patience -- for refraining from leaping into an 
>emotional "brawling" situation with Beverley and escalating 
>a conflict.
>
>To me, that is evidence of a bunch of very intelligent and 
>emotionally mature members on this List.  
>
> I am proud to me a member on this List.
>
>snipped**
>Australia.
>
>

Silver Data

[Gary Hawkins]

For what it's worth, some data on silver below, from the program 
"Periodic Table of the Elements".  The 16 bit version is available 
> from my webpage.

--Gary

-
Someone said:

>> Silver is 47 and is
>> therefore paramagnetic.
>
>believe that by definition para/dia magnetic properties refer to the 
>electron pairing in the outer shell ( not necessarily the atomic 
>number) O2 is 8, has 2 unpaired electrons in outer shell and is 
>paramagnetic.
-

Name: Silver
Symbol: Ag
Group: Transition Metal
Crystal Structure: Cubic: Face centered
Lattice parm. a: 4.0863 Å
Lattice parm. b: 
Lattice parm. c or axial angle: 
Atomic number: 47
Atomic weight: 107.8682
Shells: 2,8,18,18,1<---
Orbitals: [Kr] 4d10 5s1
Melting point: 961.93°C
Boiling point: 2162°C
Electronegativity: 1.93
Covalent radius: 1.34 Å
Ionic radius: 1.15 (+1) Å
Atomic radius: 1.75 Å
Atomic volume: 10.3 cm³/mol
First ionization potential: 7.5762 V
Second ionization potential: 21.49 V
Third ionization potential: 34.83 V
Oxydation states: 1
Density @ 293 K: 10.5 g/cm³
Specific heat: 0.235 J/gK
Heat of vaporization: 250.580 kJ/mol
Heat of fusion: 11.30 kJ/mol
Electrical conductivity: 0.630 10^6/cm ohm
Thermal conductivity: 4.29 W/cmK
Modulus of elasticity: 80 10³ MPa
Coeficient of therm. exp.: 18.9 10^-6 K^-1
Valence: 1,2
User1:  
User2:  
User3:  
 KA KB LA LB MA
eV 22105.9 24943.2 2984.41 3151.05 0 0
Å 0.56087 0.497071 4.15444 3.93473 0 0
 K L-I L-II L-III M-I M-II M-III M-IV M-V
eV 25514 3806 3524 3352 0 0 0 402.2 398.1
Å 0.48595 3.25763 3.51831 3.69885 0 0 0 30.8268 31.1443
 KA KB LA LB MA MB 83% 0% 6.3% 0% 0% 0%

Why that message came through

[Gary Hawkins]

That last message of Beverley's appears to have gone through 
to the list, but it should not have.  On the phone with the 
server, it appears there was a quirk with the system having 
to do with the spool at the time, that allowed it.  I hope 
that's all there is to it.

Gary

Action

[Gary Hawkins]

I have suspended krystal...@earthlink.net from the list for 
a period of 30 days, although from the tone and verbiage in 
her quick response my guess is that she will not be back.

Gary

Re: silver/sulfate legal limits in water

[Gary Hawkins]

At 12:08 PM 1/30/97 +1300, you wrote:
>
>
>--
>| Gary wrote
>| Thing is, I have yet to hear anyone say that taking CS has caused 
>| any side effects, yet appears to prevent colds, etc.  Would like 
>| to hear if anyone has had any adverse side effects.  

>Hi
>a recent visitor who has suffered with candida for many years started
>taking a teaspoon of CS.  Within an hour she became "violently sick"
>My advice to her was that she was very fortunate and should continue with
>the CS. She is thinking about it.
>regards
>Robert Beasley
>
>

There's one, thanks, so I can't say that anymore.  Now we have to consider 
that it might have been a rapid die-off of massive numbers of pathogens, 
whether virus or bacteria.

Gary

Re: silver/sulfate legal limits in water

[Gary Hawkins]

At 01:33 AM 1/30/97 +, you wrote:
>thought the reference might be of interest to some.
>not sure what the silver works out to in ppm.
--
Thank you for the info.  

Interesting that "silver" is the only word in bold type on that large page.

They'll let you take in twice as much silver as arsenic, or, 
if you like, you can consume as much trans-1,2-Dichloroethylene 
or Monochlorobenzene as you do silver.  Para-di-chlorobenzene 
incidentally is a known carcinogen.  Along the lines of mothballs 
and the chunk of cleaner in urinals.  Oh, have some Styrene too, 
same levels set as for silver.

Thing is, I have yet to hear anyone say that taking CS has caused 
any side effects, yet appears to prevent colds, etc.  Would like 
to hear if anyone has had any adverse side effects.  

Gary

---
>Seems that sulfate(SO4--) is of little concern,  as in how much 
>sulfuric acid am I drinking.
>
>excerpted from:
>http://143.231.208.199/cgi-bin/fastweb.exe?getdoc+cfrview+cfr05+1541+9
>7+wAAA+silver
>
>
>   (D) The allowable levels for certain chemicals for which EPA has
>
>established secondary maximum contaminant levels in its drinking
>
>water regulations (40 CFR part 143) are as follows:
>
>--
>---
>
>ContaminantConcentration in milligrams per
>
>liter
>
>--
>---
>
>Aluminum   0.2
>
>Silver 0.1
>
>Sulfate  (FOOTNOTE 1)  250.0
>
> ---
>
> (FOOTNOTE 1)  Mineral water is exempt from allowable level. The
>
> exemptions are aesthetically based allowable levels and do not
>
> relate to a health concern.
>   "Listen"
>Detoxify Remineralize Oxygenate
>"Act"
> 
>
>

No Flame Wars

[Gary Hawkins]

I have warned an individual who posts to this list that they will 
be suspended temporarily if their inflammatory tone continues, 
with so little substance offered to back up their judgementalism.

I have not yet put together a set of rules for this list, but 
an individual who insists on persistently and continuously fanning 
flames will not be around for long if the tone does not change, as 
it interferes with what might otherwise be a reasonable discussion.

Gary (Silver List Administrator)

FDA and silver

[Gary Hawkins]

I went to this website:

http://www.ncahf.org/

...and emailed the person there:

arl...@netcom.com

...asking

>Is there any convincing evidence to show for the FDA's rumblings 
>against colloidal silver?

...and received this reply:

>>From: ecolema...@aol.com
>>Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 00:52:37 -0500 (EST)

>>Dear Gary,
>>   Yes -- the FDA has good reason to speak out against the use of colloidal
>>silver. This product is being hawked as a superior germ fighter by promoters
>>such as the vet Joel Wallach. At the very least, a permanent skin
>>discoloration known as argyria can result from ingesting too much silver. 
>> Even the National Nutritional Foods Association (the largest
>>organization of health food manufacturers, distributors, and stores) is
>>warning health food dealers and consumers that colloidal silver products have
>>not been proven safe or effective. 
>>Ellen Coleman, RD, MA, MPH
>>Registered dietitian and exercise physiologist
>>Member, National Council Against Healthraud

...to which I asked in another email:

>I would like to see their documentation please.  Where can I find it?  Or 
>is it classified?

...and to that question I received no response.

Perhaps a claim can be made against something without any need to show 
any documentation or studies.  One would think they would be anxious to 
supply the information they say they found against colloidal silver to 
help convince people to their own good.  Then again, maybe they have 
lost that documentation.  Or maybe they are just very shy people, frozen 
to immobility by a brand new question.

On the other hand, I wasn't asking the FDA directly.  I've heard of a few 
lion-tamers who put their head into the lion's mouth and found the lion 
was actually kinda hungry right then.  Didn't feel much like trying that.

But maybe one or two of you know where the FDA claims against colloidal 
silver can be found.

I would expect to find a report with at least the initials of individuals 
who took CS, their hometown maybe, doctor's names, description of what 
their symptoms were as a result, and how it was determined that the symptoms 
were a result of the CS.

Instead, they seem to just want to say there is no proof that it is safe 
and effective.  But they forgot to mention there is no proof that it isn't 
either perhaps.

I guess I can understand the FDA's point.  After all, there is no proof that 
a belief in God is "safe and effective".  But then again, there is no proof 
that it isn't either.  Until I see some documentation, I have to conclude 
there is no proof that the FDA is "safe and effective".  I could be converted 
to that belief, but they don't seem to have any scriptures to point me to.

Gary


 
--
Horizon Technology   Tomorrow's Technology Today
http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/Seattle, WA
--
   

New List For Colloidal Silver

[Gary Hawkins]

Well, just decided to quit huffing and puffing and get it done.

There is a new list, for the topic of Colloidal Silver.  

This creates an outlet where the subject can be discussed 
at length without anyone being bothered by it.

-
To join, send an email to:

silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com

...with the subject:

subscribe

Send actual messages (vs. the subscribe command) to:

silver-list@eskimo.com

To unsubscribe, send a message to:

silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com

...with the subject:

unsubscribe
-

There still is NO banning of subjects from the Rife list, 
however, I want a situation where everyone on the Rife list 
is primarily there to discuss that topic.  I expect one will 
carry over into the other, but this provides an outlet.

This was prompted in part by a few messages.  These are some clips from them:

1)  My wife is battling cancer, and I'm building a Rife machine.  Right now, 
all I'm interested in is Rife, so I vote to minimize the peripherals.

2) The rife-list is for rife inquirers.
 A new list for silver, though I have no idea the topic could
be sustained, is a positive alternative.

3)  I agree that silver should be on a different listserv.  I don't like wading
through them every day to read about Rife.  They are two sepearate topics.

4)  Regarding the list, I personally don't mind variety in the subject matter,
the only problem I have with silver is it seems even more confusing than
Rife, so for the moment, I tend not to read them.

Thanks to those of you who sent your opinions.  Sorry if I left any out, just 
grabbed some that were handy.

Cheers ya'll.

Gary
 
--
Horizon Technology   Tomorrow's Technology Today
http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/Seattle, WA
--
  Bradley's Bromide:
  "If computers get too powerful, 
   we can organize them into a committee -- 
   that will do them in." 

 Lily Tomlin:
  "No matter how cynical you get, 
   it is impossible to keep up." 

Re: alternatives for our hobbies

[Gary Hawkins]

At 10:29 AM 1/16/97 -0500, you wrote:


>annoying)--it's extremely informed and thoughtful. Didn't someone mention
>that Eudora can filter out topics one doesn't want?  Isn't that a better
>approach than limiting the enthusiasm and energy of the discussions here?
> Anyway, that's my opinion as, mainly, a lurker on this list.
>Jill Neimark
>
>

That was me suggesting Eudora, with others seconding the motion.  I use it, 
but not everyone is willing to spend the $60 for the Pro version that 
can do the filtering.

It's might seem like I'm contradicting myself here, but what I'm looking 
at is that since the silver issue is beginning to look like it will be 
ongoing, some people might join the Rife list just to use it for discussions 
on silver.  That's what I don't want.  I don't want people on the Rife list
to use it for something else.

Anyway, we'll see what happens with it.  I'm into the silver topic too, and 
think it deserves indepth discussion.  I had not been receiving a bunch of 
complaints.  A few filtered in earlier.

Btw, about 185 people on this list now.  I could see this easily growing so 
vast that it could become very frustrating.  If any of you have opinions on 
that, please let me know privately.  What if it gets listed on some listserve 
lists, and winds up with 300 or more people on it, and 50 or more messages 
per day?  Is that good or bad?

Gary
--
Horizon Technology   Tomorrow's Technology Today
http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/Seattle, WA
--

silver

[Gary Hawkins]

Is there anyone out there who can start a listserve at their 
internet service provider, for the subject of silver, that is, 
colloidal silver?

If so, do it eh?

I don't see the subject diminishing in the forseeable future.  Due to
the volume of messages about it, there is an unfortunate likelihood of 
people joining this listserve just to talk about colloidal silver, yet 
having little or no interest in Rife.  Rather than some sort of harsh 
measure such as banning the subject from this list, which I find 
unpalatable, an outlet for it would be a positive thing, I think.

Gary 
--
Horizon Technology   Tomorrow's Technology Today
http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/Seattle, WA
--
  Bradley's Bromide:
  "If computers get too powerful, 
   we can organize them into a committee -- 
   that will do them in." 

 Lily Tomlin:
  "No matter how cynical you get, 
   it is impossible to keep up."