Re: [RE]CSVitamin C and Hardening of the Arteries:COMMENT
Thank you Brooks for that really helpful article. Can you say whether in your opinion, it is better to take sodium ascorbate or a whole form of vit C. Thank you again and may you have many more Happy New Years! dee On 12 Jan 2010, at 02:01, Brooks Bradley wrote: Dear Steve, We have evaluated High Dosage vitamin C INTENSIVELY, SINCE CIRCA 1975. Although I have no way of disproving the allegations to which you refer.I can not bring myself to even consider such claims to have actual merit. We have, directly, prosecutedliterallyhundreds of evaluations (involving almost 2000 people)involving vitamin C (in all of its various chemical configurations)...All without a single DETECTABLE adverse agent of influence. Although our studies were NOT double-blind in naturethe experimental subjects were ALL subjected to BEFORE and AFTER- SYSTEMIC AND BLOOD CHEMISTRY evaluated parameters. We never encountered a volunteer subject who manifested ANY challenge or insult (except loose stools; if one considers that adverse) from vitamin C dosages as high as 30 grams dailyover periods of time as long as 4 months, continually. The only detectable/measurable consequences presented were UNIVERSALLY positive. However, there were, some! times, surprising conditions.although all were positive in nature. e.g. We did encounter a number of individuals (sometimes as high as 10% of the entire test group of 45 persons) who did not display ANY measurable benefits until the dosage of vitamin C reached 10 grams daily. The spectrum of beneficial responses were, sometimes,simply breath-taking. In one limited study we compared the effects of saturated solutions of vitamin C against a wide array of conventional antibiotics as the principal address for deep penetrating wounds and major lacerations. Not a single ONE of the antibiotics proved superior to the vitamin C..and a majority (7 antibiotics) proved to be considerably less effective. Some antibiotics proved no better than tap water. I am not recommending that ANYONE take ANY AMOUNT of vitamin C---in ANY FORM. These comments are merely a simple synopsis of our DIRECT RESEARCH EXPERIENCES involving experimental volunteers.during the immediately-past 30+ years (a much longer period than we have been a chartered research foundation). I have experienced a deep and direct relationship (principally a professional one)with many facets of the conventional medical profession over the last 50 years. A majority of all these people proved to be well-intentioned, professionally honest and for the most part---capable. I have witnessed what I would characterize as ASTOUNDING.an almost total domination of both the professional and economic parameters of the national medical arena (research as well as the major elements of direct practice )by elements OUTSIDE the physical practice of the art. I will not comment on what I believe the complete nature of this influence to be. However, one particularly vexing consequence of having a profit-oriented, cartel-like, control over ANY human endeavor involving the general population of a people is...that by definitionthe continued expansion of such artificial constructs requires a dedication to net business Income.not the health and vitality of the general population.except as an accidental corollary. This observation is so obvious that it mitigates against ANY reasonable rebuttal involving common sense. I now close this epistle, hopefully, before it requires Mike Devour to declare me out-of-bounds. Thankfully, or rather mercifully, he has allowed me such an incoherent ravingat least once a yearwithout giving me the heave-ho. I did it early this year.because I am so long-in-the-tooth that I may not make another year :) . May Each of You Enjoy the Grandest Year of This Life, Namaste, Brooks Bradley. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: [RE]CSVitamin C and Hardening of the Arteries:COMMENT
Dear Mr. Bradley: Yours is a remarkable (and, sadly, all too credible) statement. I'm sure many of us would welcome your cogent explication, on or off list. I can imagine that this topic may seem to be very thin ice indeed, however, and I've had related conversations on similar matters in which my interlocutor absolutely would not say more.Nevertheless, URL links to information that may provide illumination to those seeking better understanding would be most welcome. In that regard, Mathias Rath, MD, makes some very powerful and troubling assertions on his web site. Perhaps these have some connection to the comment below. A very fine book on politics and economics that may prove of value to you and others is this one by Professor McMurtry, for whom I have enormous respect. This book was one of few that helped to change my way of thinking. McMurtry fleshes out the life economy that humanity desperately needs. The other side of things, of course, is the economy that currently reigns. http://www.amazon.com/Value-Wars-Moral-Philosophy-Humanity/dp/ 0745318908/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0 On Tuesday, Jan 12, 2010, at 11:01 Asia/Tokyo, Brooks Bradley wrote: I have witnessed what I would characterize as ASTOUNDING.an almost total domination of both the professional and economic parameters of the national medical arena (research as well as the major elements of direct practice )by elements OUTSIDE the physical practice of the art. I will not comment on what I believe the complete nature of this influence to be. However, one particularly vexing consequence of having a profit-oriented, cartel-like, control over ANY human endeavor involving the general population of a people is...that by definitionthe continued expansion of such artificial constructs requires a dedication to net business Income.not the health and vitality of the general population.except as an accidental corollary. This observation is so obvious that it mitigates against ANY reasonable rebuttal involving common sense. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
[RE]CSVitamin C and Hardening of the Arteries:COMMENT
Dear Steve, We have evaluated High Dosage vitamin C INTENSIVELY, SINCE CIRCA 1975. Although I have no way of disproving the allegations to which you refer.I can not bring myself to even consider such claims to have actual merit. We have, directly, prosecutedliterallyhundreds of evaluations (involving almost 2000 people)involving vitamin C (in all of its various chemical configurations)...All without a single DETECTABLE adverse agent of influence. Although our studies were NOT double-blind in naturethe experimental subjects were ALL subjected to BEFORE and AFTER- SYSTEMIC AND BLOOD CHEMISTRY evaluated parameters. We never encountered a volunteer subject who manifested ANY challenge or insult (except loose stools; if one considers that adverse) from vitamin C dosages as high as 30 grams dailyover periods of time as long as 4 months, continually. The only detectable/measurable consequences presented were UNIVERSALLY positive. However, there were, some! times, surprising conditions.although all were positive in nature. e.g. We did encounter a number of individuals (sometimes as high as 10% of the entire test group of 45 persons) who did not display ANY measurable benefits until the dosage of vitamin C reached 10 grams daily. The spectrum of beneficial responses were, sometimes,simply breath-taking. In one limited study we compared the effects of saturated solutions of vitamin C against a wide array of conventional antibiotics as the principal address for deep penetrating wounds and major lacerations. Not a single ONE of the antibiotics proved superior to the vitamin C..and a majority (7 antibiotics) proved to be considerably less effective. Some antibiotics proved no better than tap water. I am not recommending that ANYONE take ANY AMOUNT of vitamin C---in ANY FORM. These comments are merely a simple synopsis of our DIRECT RESEARCH EXPERIENCES involving experimental volunteers.during the immediately-past 30+ years (a much longer period than we have been a chartered research foundation). I have experienced a deep and direct relationship (principally a professional one)with many facets of the conventional medical profession over the last 50 years. A majority of all these people proved to be well-intentioned, professionally honest and for the most part---capable. I have witnessed what I would characterize as ASTOUNDING.an almost total domination of both the professional and economic parameters of the national medical arena (research as well as the major elements of direct practice )by elements OUTSIDE the physical practice of the art. I will not comment on what I believe the complete nature of this influence to be. However, one particularly vexing consequence of having a profit-oriented, cartel-like, control over ANY human endeavor involving the general population of a people is...that by definitionthe continued expansion of such "artificial constructs" requires a dedication to net business Income.not the health and vitality of the general population.except as an accidental corollary. This observation is so obvious that it mitigates against ANY reasonable rebuttal involving common sense. I now close this epistle, hopefully, before it requires Mike Devour to declare me out-of-bounds. Thankfully, or rather mercifully, he has allowed me such an incoherent ravingat least once a yearwithout giving me the heave-ho. I did it early this year.because I am so long-in-the-tooth that I may not make another year :>) . May Each of You Enjoy the Grandest Year of This Life, Namaste, Brooks Bradley. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : CSVitamin C and Hardening of the Arteries Date : Mon, 11 Jan 2010 17:07:02 -0600 From : Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com To : silver-list@eskimo.com I sent this once but received back an error message. Trying again. I ran across the following info that says that Vitamin C may cause hardening of the arteries. I am used to seeing info saying that Vitamin C is good for the arteries such as the link further down. I don't take very high doses of Vitamin C, 500 - 1000 mg, but now I am concerned. Anyone have better data? Thanks, - Steve N ___ http://altmedangel.com/arteries.htm "Ascorbic Acid Causes Hardening of the Arteries? It seems hardly likely that taking high doses of vitamin C (ascorbic acid) can cause thickening or hardening of the arteries since so many people have taken high doses for a long time. Yet researchers from the University of California reported just that on March 2, 2000. People who took 500 mgs of ascorbic acid had a 2.5 times faster progression of thickening of the carotid artery (hardening of the arteries) than people who took no supplement. This
