Re: CSSerious EIS Colour Size/Zeta=[Malvern DLS]
Neville Munn wrote:
Apologies for the appalling way in which I put my queries, and
I'll answer in one go here.
1) Particle size and beam strength: What I meant to say
was...although the other colour reflected/refracted? is grey and
unseen with naked eye, if the light beam is 'reflected' from the
larger particles among the smaller particles, could that be a
misguided belief that there are a large number of larger particles
present in a given solution, when in actual fact there isn't?
Example: Lemon yellow solution {although this would apply to a clear
solution as well}...shine laser thru solution...strong beam of light
suggesting larger particles, BUT, could that beam strength also
indicate light 'refracting?' off those larger particles and as it
scatters in the liquid 'reflect?' light off the smaller ones, giving
the illusion that there are *many* larger particles in solution due to
beam strength, when if fact there may be a *lesser* number of larger
particles but the beam strength indicates otherwise.
As I indicated before the liquid is isotropic, thus whether any photons
refracted then hit a small particle is irrelevant, the probability of
hitting a small particle is the same regardless of what direction the
photon is moving. However if it is refracted it could end up outside of
the beam when it hits a particle, thus in actuality refraction would
result in a slight reduction in the intensity of the beam.
In a clear solution that beam would just appear stronger than perhaps
it otherwise would in a clear solution with minimal larger particles.
Jeez, I don't know if this is decipherable either?
Look at the equations, they tell the complete story. Reflection off a
particle goes up by the 6th power of the size of that particle. So if
you have 1% large particles which are 10 times bigger than 99% small
particles (by count, not ppm), then the amount of light coming off the
large particles will be 10^6/100, or 10,000 times as bright as what is
coming off the small particles even though they only account for 1% of
the partiles..
I'll move on to the other one...
2) Laser failing to pass thru liquid: Shone light thru
solution...puts spot on wall as light exits glass but no path thru
liquid. I believe both you and Dok have answered this one now.
Although you're right regarding spot 'size' on wall, I've switched
batteries over from laser with larger spot size {now there's the
appropriate larger spot size on wall with this laser} and there
appears to be little difference. If I look *real* close I can see a
*very* faint beam, but when batteries are returned to original laser
that beam is *very* evident. This suggests to me that there is a
basic difference in construction of both lasers {for the want of
better description}.
Laser light is laser light. If you are seeing a difference then it is
going to be either a difference in the intensity of the beam, or a lack
of coherence implying tht one is not lasing, provided they are the same
wavelength.
I believe I understand the different apearance of a laser spot as
compared to an LED. An led couldn't really be defined as a 'spot',
besides, they won't light up the trees 15 streets away with a 'spot'.
A laser beam is both coherent as well as columinated. An LED is
neither. A non lasing laser is an LED.
Marshall
If I still haven't made myself clear I guess we'll have to put it down
to a failure to communicate with the uneducated.
Your 'spot size on wall' indictor for the laser is very useful too
Marshall, Thanks very much for that. I knew there was a reason I
don't participate in other discussion groups anymore g.
N.
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:09:51 -0400
From: mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSSerious EIS Colour Size/Zeta=[Malvern DLS]
You might be correct there, but I had assumed that the statement
that it
was throwing a good spot on the wall meant that it was lasing. If the
spot is more than 1/4 inch in diameter at 10 feet, then it would not be
a good spot on the wall as far as I am concerned. So, how big is the
spot on the wall at 10 to 20 feet? Should be about the size of a
pencil. If it is bigger then the laser is not lasing and is nothing
more than an LED.
Marshall
Find it at CarPoint.com.au New, Used, Demo, Dealer or Private?
http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/206222968/direct/01/
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CSSerious EIS Colour Size/Zeta=[Malvern DLS]
I only have few-minutes, to type here...so making this a real 'quicky' post.
Laser Diodes have a minimum LASING threshold-current...and with weak
batteries...you do-not have enough-current to avalanche in LASER mode!
Unless you reach minimum-current...the LD will glow-red, not as LASER.
Rather than waiting for (new) battery...just swap-batteries to Test others?
Also Nevile...Marshall, was describing Photospectrometry, not-refraction
and while you have a very inquisitive-mind...when-off-track, bad-answers?
Infact/see-below...learn how to use WIKI/understand PhotoSpectrometry.
Dok Dallas
P.S. Earlier-posting was accidentally-sent before complete (without) Links
and as soon as I can post-again, will POST WIKI-LINKS to get ya going~
Try these-two Search engine's www.dogpile.com http://en.wikipedia.org
(Have hundreds of KEY/WIKI-LINKS...to keep-you-going for many-years?)
START~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colloidal_particle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Colloidal_chemistry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_scattering
Biggest problem...getting good [Scientific] Info...is in-search [wording]..?
No-reason, to put-yourself-down, just because lacking a 'degree'...one of
IDIOTS I worked with...had Several, yet-failed (creative) Logical Thinkng!
Come to think of it...HE DID very well...when DECANTING his Wine.g
(LoL I'm Sorry ...that must have been the Ghost-of-Ol' Wayne...typing)
This ONE, will put you at HEAD-of-the-Class, Dogpile [MALVERN DLS].
Chance to show Marshall Ode how to Size Zeta 0.6nm Particles~!
FYI: View EXCELLENT on-line Educational Seminars, once Registered,
strongly suggest...NOT asking-questions here...University Professors..!
Better start-here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_light_scattering
(MALVERN is world-leader in patented/state-of-art DLS measurements)
Neville, rather than get into endless-loop of answering Daily Questions,
which take way-too-much TIME from Marshall, or Dok...so~Try LINKS!
Prefer to Show member HOW WHERE-to-SEARCH...not Answering
I have even included full physics-package from college...you can study.
From time-to-time can post you KEY-WORDS...to point you, to INFO?
http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/elchem/ec1.html
http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/elchem/ec2.html
http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/elchem/ec3.html
http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/elchem/ec4.html
http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/elchem/ec5.html
http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/elchem/ec6.html
http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/elchem/ec7.html
http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/elchem/ec8.html
==
--- On Thu, 4/15/10, Neville Munn one.red...@hotmail.com wrote:
From: Neville Munn one.red...@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: CSSerious EIS Colour Questions.
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Date: Thursday, April 15, 2010, 12:49 AM
I think I may have found the answer. I believe the batteries need to be *REAL*
good for the laser to be powerful enough to pass thru a liquid. Although
the laser throws a good spot on the wall it's not powerful enough to pass thru
the solution. The other one which shows lesser beam may be indicative of
batteries in THAT laser starting to go as well.
Will get more batteries and re-check and see how things pan out then. I would
not have thought that a laser beam must have minimum power whereby it then
fails to show thru a glass of liquid though, even though it spots well on the
wall.
N.
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 12:19:16 -0400
From: mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSSerious EIS Colour Questions.
Neville Munn wrote:
Marshall, would it be possible for you to give me an explanation
of why number (3) showed *no* beam thru the solution at all?
And for that matter, why there is a difference in strength of beam in
the other two?
All lasers were used on the same solution.
Three different red lasers,
(1) 650nm+/-10 maximum output 1mW...{strong beam passing thru
liquid}
(2) 650nm+/-10 maximum output 5mW...{fainter beam}
(3) 630-650nm maximum output 1mW...{no beam at all}
N.
Australia's #1 job site If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK
http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/
I have no idea. IT is working, right? Do they all look to be the same
color red? Maybe you have the wavelength wrong on the 3rd one.
Marshall
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Re: CSSerious EIS Colour Size/Zeta=[Malvern DLS]
You might be correct there, but I had assumed that the statement that it
was throwing a good spot on the wall meant that it was lasing. If the
spot is more than 1/4 inch in diameter at 10 feet, then it would not be
a good spot on the wall as far as I am concerned. So, how big is the
spot on the wall at 10 to 20 feet? Should be about the size of a
pencil. If it is bigger then the laser is not lasing and is nothing
more than an LED.
Marshall
Dok Dallas wrote:
I only have few-minutes, to type here...so making this a real 'quicky'
post.
Laser Diodes have a minimum LASING threshold-current...and with weak
batteries...you do-not have enough-current to avalanche in LASER mode!
Unless you reach minimum-current...the LD will glow-red, not as LASER.
Rather than waiting for (new) battery...just swap-batteries to Test
others?
Also Nevile...Marshall, was describing Photospectrometry, not-refraction
and while you have a very inquisitive-mind...when-off-track, bad-answers?
Infact/see-below...learn how to use WIKI/understand PhotoSpectrometry.
Dok Dallas
P.S. Earlier-posting was accidentally-sent before complete (without) Links
and as soon as I can post-again, will POST WIKI-LINKS to get ya going~
Try these-two Search engine's www.dogpile.com
http://www.dogpile.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org
http://en.wikipedia.org/
(Have hundreds of KEY/WIKI-LINKS...to keep-you-going for many-years?)
START~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colloidal_particle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Colloidal_chemistry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_scattering
Biggest problem...getting good [Scientific] Info...is in-search
[wording]..?
No-reason, to put-yourself-down, just because lacking a 'degree'...one of
IDIOTS I worked with...had Several, yet-failed (creative) Logical Thinkng!
Come to think of it...HE DID very well...when DECANTING his Wine.g
(LoL I'm Sorry ...that must have been the Ghost-of-Ol' Wayne...typing)
This ONE, will put you at HEAD-of-the-Class, Dogpile [MALVERN DLS].
Chance to show Marshall Ode how to Size Zeta 0.6nm Particles~!
FYI: View EXCELLENT on-line Educational Seminars, once Registered,
strongly suggest...NOT asking-questions here...University Professors..!
Better start-here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_light_scattering
(MALVERN is world-leader in patented/state-of-art DLS measurements)
Neville, rather than get into endless-loop of answering Daily Questions,
which take way-too-much TIME from Marshall, or Dok...so~Try LINKS!
Prefer to Show member HOW WHERE-to-SEARCH...not Answering
I have even included full physics-package from college...you can study.
From time-to-time can post you KEY-WORDS...to point you, to INFO?
http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/elchem/ec1.html
http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/elchem/ec2.html
http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/elchem/ec3.html
http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/elchem/ec4.html
http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/elchem/ec5.html
http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/elchem/ec6.html
http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/elchem/ec7.html
http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/elchem/ec8.html
==
--- On *Thu, 4/15/10, Neville Munn /one.red...@hotmail.com/* wrote:
From: Neville Munn one.red...@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: CSSerious EIS Colour Questions.
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Date: Thursday, April 15, 2010, 12:49 AM
I think I may have found the answer. I believe the batteries need
to be *REAL* good for the laser to be powerful enough to pass thru
a liquid. Although the laser throws a good spot on the wall it's
not powerful enough to pass thru the solution. The other one
which shows lesser beam may be indicative of batteries in THAT
laser starting to go as well.
Will get more batteries and re-check and see how things pan out
then. I would not have thought that a laser beam must have
minimum power whereby it then fails to show thru a glass of liquid
though, even though it spots well on the wall.
N.
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 12:19:16 -0400
From: mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSSerious EIS Colour Questions.
Neville Munn wrote:
Marshall, would it be possible for you to give me an explanation
of why number (3) showed *no* beam thru the solution at all?
And for that matter, why there is a difference in strength of
beam in
the other two?
All lasers were used on the same solution.
Three different red lasers,
(1) 650nm+/-10 maximum output 1mW...{strong beam passing
thru
liquid}
(2) 650nm+/-10 maximum output 5mW...{fainter beam}
(3) 630-650nm maximum output 1mW...{no beam at all}
N.
Australia's #1 job site If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK
RE: CSSerious EIS Colour Size/Zeta=[Malvern DLS]
Apologies for the appalling way in which I put my queries, and I'll answer in
one go here.
1) Particle size and beam strength: What I meant to say was...although the
other colour reflected/refracted? is grey and unseen with naked eye, if the
light beam is 'reflected' from the larger particles among the smaller
particles, could that be a misguided belief that there are a large number of
larger particles present in a given solution, when in actual fact there isn't?
Example: Lemon yellow solution {although this would apply to a clear solution
as well}...shine laser thru solution...strong beam of light suggesting larger
particles, BUT, could that beam strength also indicate light 'refracting?' off
those larger particles and as it scatters in the liquid 'reflect?' light off
the smaller ones, giving the illusion that there are *many* larger particles in
solution due to beam strength, when if fact there may be a *lesser* number of
larger particles but the beam strength indicates otherwise.
In a clear solution that beam would just appear stronger than perhaps it
otherwise would in a clear solution with minimal larger particles. Jeez, I
don't know if this is decipherable either?
I'll move on to the other one...
2) Laser failing to pass thru liquid: Shone light thru solution...puts spot on
wall as light exits glass but no path thru liquid. I believe both you and Dok
have answered this one now. Although you're right regarding spot 'size' on
wall, I've switched batteries over from laser with larger spot size {now
there's the appropriate larger spot size on wall with this laser} and there
appears to be little difference. If I look *real* close I can see a *very*
faint beam, but when batteries are returned to original laser that beam is
*very* evident. This suggests to me that there is a basic difference in
construction of both lasers {for the want of better description}.
I believe I understand the different apearance of a laser spot as compared to
an LED. An led couldn't really be defined as a 'spot', besides, they won't
light up the trees 15 streets away with a 'spot'.
If I still haven't made myself clear I guess we'll have to put it down to a
failure to communicate with the uneducated.
Your 'spot size on wall' indictor for the laser is very useful too Marshall,
Thanks very much for that. I knew there was a reason I don't participate in
other discussion groups anymore g.
N.
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:09:51 -0400
From: mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSSerious EIS Colour Size/Zeta=[Malvern DLS]
You might be correct there, but I had assumed that the statement that it
was throwing a good spot on the wall meant that it was lasing. If the
spot is more than 1/4 inch in diameter at 10 feet, then it would not be
a good spot on the wall as far as I am concerned. So, how big is the
spot on the wall at 10 to 20 feet? Should be about the size of a
pencil. If it is bigger then the laser is not lasing and is nothing
more than an LED.
Marshall
_
New, Used, Demo, Dealer or Private? Find it at CarPoint.com.au
http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/206222968/direct/01/
