Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
I just don't think he bothered! He actually said as much. Dee ---Original Message--- From: John Plumridge Date: 21/11/2007 23:18:01 To: silver-list@eskimo.com; Simon Jester Subject: Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone... Yet, it's true to appear polite takes a lot of effort in this medium, in Order to guess what won't upset people. Perhaps it took Simon too long to Learn how. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
I'm not getting into this again, as it has already been banned as a subject a while back. Suffice it to say, that if you want to go round upsetting people unecessarily, then that's your prerogative. I prefer not too that's all. Dee ---Original Message--- From: John Plumridge Date: 22/11/2007 00:07:22 To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone... It is not one's job to satisfy or respect the feelings of others. Quite Often their feelings are selfish. I might rather equally risk delighting them or piss them off. A true Meeting of a true person, and how non-sycophantic people like to meet. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
Dear John, It was a decision I did not make lightly. Under most circumstances I could like and certainly tolerate Simon/Charles. I agree with most of his philosophy and recognize his clever, knowledgeable, and helpful nature, beneath a certain amount of irritability. The key problem is the mission of this list is not compatible with: Simon naturally sent invitations to those who needed to dislike someone (thin-skinned), and took them on... ... at least, not without considerably more discernment than Charles was in the habit of exercising when choosing the targets of those invitations you speak of. Part of our stated mission is to foster a welcoming and supportive environment. This group often acts as a gateway for newcomers to enter the alternative health community. They will not be well served by being challenged to be thick-skinned... In fact they are often quite fragile, new to the online environment, new to alternative thinking, and can easily be driven away for good by a thoughtless response. Now, it would be easy to say, Tough! That's their problem! if it wasn't that such an attitude might be a death sentence for someone who is in critical need of the information they are looking for from us. Anyway, I will continue to observe his performance on other groups I'm on. It appears he's making some effort to be more gentle, of which I wholeheartedly approve. A time may come when I invite him back, if he'll still have us. Be well, Mike D. Apologies for joining this discussion late. I was sorry to see Simon go. Mike said this was a common feature of replies with Simon, and sohe had to go (something like that). I trust it wasn't an off-day for Mike, when he made the decision, and Mike made a timely decision in respect of this list. Of course, I hadn't seen all Simon's posts. I think Simon truly attempted to be straightforward and candid, and we would not recognise him in real life, as he asked us to consider. Yet, it's true to appear polite takes a lot of effort in this medium, in order to guess what won't upset people. Perhaps it took Simon too long to learn how. But, we all carry our own cross to bear, and that cross may be our virtue too. Simon's is understandable, and should be tolerated, because I think society needs that character amongst us, as if a calling. Simon remained tough , because he wouldn't be worn down, and chose to engage people. That is also a virtue, if you have the time and energy, or are in such a phase. The reason I say this, is because I spotted a comment below, which I frequently see levelled at people, and which I really take exception to. Mainly because it is a common excuse which always goes unchallenged, and rather like kicking a corpse - and give the appearance of an in-group and an out group - the sad people and the happy people. No need to accuse me of being thin-skinned here: --On 9 November 2007 14:09:30 -0500 Dianne France dianne_fra...@hotmail.com wrote: Good parents never enjoy disciplining a child but it is necessary for growth and setting boundaries. ... Personally I believe he is a very sad person inside. I read such statements about sadness as either provocative (if not an epitaph) or self-serving and censoring sadness as 'an unwanted kind of mental illness' in our midst. Usually inaccurate toolike how on earth did you measure their sadness, or its quality, and if you did, why doesn't that make a difference? The sad person inside to be condemned for being sad inside, as if it was his own doing, or morally corrupt. I'd like to remind folk that sadness is not a mental illness, but extraordinary happiness is seen as rather like one (mal adaptive, unreal, delusional). In fact, sadness is viewed in the professional's reasoned world as an appropriate response to the world, and adaptive, not mal-adaptive behaviour. IN any case, I don't see Simon as angry or sad in any heavy way, but as I said above...on a mission, and one which might be understood and tolerated by *Good parents. Common is deviation, and a need to categorise people into likes and dislikes. Simon naturally sent invitations to those who needed to dislike someone (thin-skinned), and took them on, often holding out olive branches which were almost as often ignored. In many ways he was the selfless parent, and risked being misunderstood. Bless him. JOhn -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ]
Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
Apologies for joining this discussion late. I was sorry to see Simon go. Mike said this was a common feature of replies with Simon, and sohe had to go (something like that). I trust it wasn't an off-day for Mike, when he made the decision, and Mike made a timely decision in respect of this list. Of course, I hadn't seen all Simon's posts. I think Simon truly attempted to be straightforward and candid, and we would not recognise him in real life, as he asked us to consider. Yet, it's true to appear polite takes a lot of effort in this medium, in order to guess what won't upset people. Perhaps it took Simon too long to learn how. But, we all carry our own cross to bear, and that cross may be our virtue too. Simon's is understandable, and should be tolerated, because I think society needs that character amongst us, as if a calling. Simon remained tough , because he wouldn't be worn down, and chose to engage people. That is also a virtue, if you have the time and energy, or are in such a phase. The reason I say this, is because I spotted a comment below, which I frequently see levelled at people, and which I really take exception to. Mainly because it is a common excuse which always goes unchallenged, and rather like kicking a corpse - and give the appearance of an in-group and an out group - the sad people and the happy people. No need to accuse me of being thin-skinned here: --On 9 November 2007 14:09:30 -0500 Dianne France dianne_fra...@hotmail.com wrote: Good parents never enjoy disciplining a child but it is necessary for growth and setting boundaries. ... Personally I believe he is a very sad person inside. I read such statements about sadness as either provocative (if not an epitaph) or self-serving and censoring sadness as 'an unwanted kind of mental illness' in our midst. Usually inaccurate toolike how on earth did you measure their sadness, or its quality, and if you did, why doesn't that make a difference? The sad person inside to be condemned for being sad inside, as if it was his own doing, or morally corrupt. I'd like to remind folk that sadness is not a mental illness, but extraordinary happiness is seen as rather like one (mal adaptive, unreal, delusional). In fact, sadness is viewed in the professional's reasoned world as an appropriate response to the world, and adaptive, not mal-adaptive behaviour. IN any case, I don't see Simon as angry or sad in any heavy way, but as I said above...on a mission, and one which might be understood and tolerated by *Good parents. Common is deviation, and a need to categorise people into likes and dislikes. Simon naturally sent invitations to those who needed to dislike someone (thin-skinned), and took them on, often holding out olive branches which were almost as often ignored. In many ways he was the selfless parent, and risked being misunderstood. Bless him. JOhn -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
--On 9 November 2007 09:35:22 + Dee d...@deetroy.org wrote: Its not a question of demanding anything at all, it is just a question of common courtesy, and having a bit of respect for the feelings of others, that's all. It is not one's job to satisfy or respect the feelings of others. Quite often their feelings are selfish. I might rather equally risk delighting them or piss them off. a true meeting of a true person, and how non-sycophantic people like to meet. Isn't that is being a libertarian or lover of freedom. I am not obliged to satisfy any tom dick or harry's feelings. And, as a person trusting in spontaneity which comes of learning, lightness and civililty - on a mission - a teacher, a clown or a parent, I confound them and surprise them. If everyone remembered this, the world would be a much nicer place to live in, as there are enough horrible things going on to upset people as it is. Dee If we were to satisfy people's ordinary feelings in discourse, either their demands would be endless, or we would be in a dirge. MOst discourse is unsatisfactory. With friends, and people who you go click with it enters another dimension of delight in truth of uncensored speech and creative spontaneity. And so, those horrible things, all corruption, is by trying to satisfy people's feelings. Sycophantic and exploitation. By feelings, we do not mean good heart, or the feelings associated with a person's condition (maternity or whatever) - but surface feelings, any kind of whim, sensitivities, selfish desires, crackpot sensitivities, childhood-disturbances, psychological conditioning, feelers, testing, sly postures, sly indignation, egoistic indignation. An example, I am a boss with many employees. They want to go home early - that's what they feel like most of the time. Because they are doing it for the money, only. They don't feel they are really living at work. SHould I satisfy that ubiquitous unstated feeling? No they are my slaves. Then most of them also want to get laid all the time. A way to end boredom and bring in excitement, Should I set up a dating agency within the workplace and wife-swapping rooms, and bedrooms? The some feel aggrieved because I didn't appoint them. I didn't tell you, my job is King - and many of my ministers want my job. SHould I give it to them? Because that feeling pervades the chambers. NO, I chop off some of their heads every few years instead. Because I have responsibilities to ALl the people: and I feel for their hearts desires, their simple needs, their pure children, their desire to work a little less and play more. Make play work. Make work play. I want to reduce the wars and taxes. Their surface feelings are despair. How can you respect despair? NO? My Conclusion: a difficult thing to do , mange this list. I don't think prefect decisions can be made. But no decision should rest upon a platitude like 'respect others feelings'. What you are actually doing is what is at stake. JOhn -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
Its not a question of demanding anything at all, it is just a question of common courtesy, and having a bit of respect for the feelings of others, that's all. If everyone remembered this, the world would be a much nicer place to live in, as there are enough horrible things going on to upset people as it is. Dee ---Original Message--- From: faith gagne Date: 11/08/07 14:05:08 To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone... I do not agree at all. I do not demand that others treat me exactly the way I need to be treated in order for me to feel good about myself. This places quite a burden on friends, neighbors and the entire world, and it does not require me to make any effort at all to understand where other people are coming from.
Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
My feelings exactly Mike. Dee ---Original Message--- From: M. G. Devour Date: 08/11/2007 17:54:19 To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone... So I agree with everyone who says you shouldn't let yourself be bothered by idiots on the 'net. But that doesn't mean I'm obliged to let anyone come in here and stealthily corrupt the atmosphere I'm trying to create with hostile and aggressive behavior. Be well, Mike D.
Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
yep, it's a sad day his insightful and valuable knowledge will be sorely missed Ruth B. - Original Message - From: M. G. Devour mdev...@eskimo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 12:38 AM Subject: Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone... Smitty wrote: he's gone. . . .but not forgotten. . . . . . . . Kathryn wrote: second that... No doubt. I do not enjoy booting people. I would ask all of you not to ever demand it of me for insiginificant or selfish reasons. As much as we ought to expect courtesy and consideration from each other, a measure of tolerance and thick-skinned resiliency is required of us as well. In slightly different circumstances I'd not mind nor care about his seeming one-man crusade to convert people to responsible, self-reliant individuals by being rude to them. blink, blink Here, now, I can't ignore it or condone it. Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
If you miss him, join the MDI_News list. he is still going strong over there. Marshall Ruth Bertella wrote: yep, it's a sad day his insightful and valuable knowledge will be sorely missed Ruth B. - Original Message - From: M. G. Devour mdev...@eskimo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 12:38 AM Subject: Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone... Smitty wrote: he's gone. . . .but not forgotten. . . . . . . . Kathryn wrote: second that... No doubt. I do not enjoy booting people. I would ask all of you not to ever demand it of me for insiginificant or selfish reasons. As much as we ought to expect courtesy and consideration from each other, a measure of tolerance and thick-skinned resiliency is required of us as well. In slightly different circumstances I'd not mind nor care about his seeming one-man crusade to convert people to responsible, self-reliant individuals by being rude to them. blink, blink Here, now, I can't ignore it or condone it. Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
Good parents never enjoy disciplining a child but it is necessary for growth and setting boundaries. It didn't make me happy that Simon was expelled from the list because he does have knowledge to share but like an unruly child, he wanted to go past limits set by this list. Personally I believe he is a very sad person inside. Dianne - Original Message - From: Marshall Dudleymailto:mdud...@king-cart.com To: silver-list@eskimo.commailto:silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 11:31 AM Subject: Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone... If you miss him, join the MDI_News list. he is still going strong over there. Marshall Ruth Bertella wrote: yep, it's a sad day his insightful and valuable knowledge will be sorely missed Ruth B. - Original Message - From: M. G. Devour mdev...@eskimo.commailto:mdev...@eskimo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.commailto:silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 12:38 AM Subject: Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone... Smitty wrote: he's gone. . . .but not forgotten. . . . . . . . Kathryn wrote: second that... No doubt. I do not enjoy booting people. I would ask all of you not to ever demand it of me for insiginificant or selfish reasons. As much as we ought to expect courtesy and consideration from each other, a measure of tolerance and thick-skinned resiliency is required of us as well. In slightly different circumstances I'd not mind nor care about his seeming one-man crusade to convert people to responsible, self-reliant individuals by being rude to them. blink, blink Here, now, I can't ignore it or condone it. Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.orghttp://silverlist.org/ To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.commailto:silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.commailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down.. List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.commailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
Faith concludes: We cause as much pain in the world when we take offense as when we give it. Very interesting summation of the idea, Faith. Dee writes: I agree totally with you Mary Ann, civility costs nothing and it is surely a positive thing to make people feel good rather than the opposite... Civility costs effort, more or less depending on your personality. grin Mary Ann says: The measure of any group of people in society -- cyber-society included -- is the level of behavior of the least of that society. If it is required of polite people to become thick-skinned and tolerate bad behavior, then everyone loses Yes, and somewhere between these two legitimate ideals -- perfect civility and perfect immunity -- is the reality we live in. Anybody who wants to launch into great dramas every time somebody else says something that can be stretched enough to be interpreted as offensive will be just as disruptive as Simon/Charles, as well as fail to achieve any of their own goals for their participation. We've all seen these personalities. They usually don't hang around very long. On the other hand, if you stubbornly persist in injecting unnecessary little personal jabs at people while ostensibly helping them, you're going to create a problem, too. Still, the reason I'm most disappointed in Charles, is that this list is, in essence, my property, the product of my labor. The atmosphere I foster, the effort I put into making it a welcoming place and keeping the discussion on an even keel, is what will make the group attractive to people and allow them to use it to meet their own needs and encourage them to help each other. You don't come in here and expect to be able to dictate standards of behavior! I'm astonished that an ostensible libertarian would be so disrespectful of another person's property rights! And be persistently aggressive, too. Both are antithetical to libertarian philosophy. sigh So I agree with everyone who says you shouldn't let yourself be bothered by idiots on the 'net. But that doesn't mean I'm obliged to let anyone come in here and stealthily corrupt the atmosphere I'm trying to create with hostile and aggressive behavior. Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
I agree totally with you Mary Ann, civility costs nothing and it is surely a positive thing to make people feel good rather than the opposite, no matter how clever one may think one is, or how dumb one may think the other person is! Dee ---Original Message--- From: marmar...@bellsouth.net Date: 07/11/2007 17:43:08 To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSSimon aka Charles is gone... Boy -- I've got to respectfully disagree with this Mike. And pardon me for speaking out --I've been sitting on my hands thinking that I should be the one to be silent now. But that's what's wrong with our world -- the ones who object remain silent. The measure of any group of people in society -- cyber-society included -- is the level of behavior of the least of that society. If it is required of polite people to become thick-skinned and tolerate bad behavior, then everyone loses because as we become that way we also become insensitive to our own behavior towards others. Isn't that a slippery slope?
Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
I do not agree at all. I do not demand that others treat me exactly the way I need to be treated in order for me to feel good about myself. This places quite a burden on friends, neighbors and the entire world, and it does not require me to make any effort at all to understand where other people are coming from. To insist that all others dance in attendance to my emotional wants and needs places a HUGE demand on the rest of the world.To automatically assume that the other person sees me as dumb is a construct of my own thinking designed to keep my demands in place and up front.Nobody lives between my ears but me. I'm in there all by myself so I cannot blame other people for what emerges from my own thinking.. I may not always agree with what the other person has to say and I may not even like what the other person has to say, but I'd damned well better love their RIGHT to say it because I cannot muzzle the next guy without muzzling myself at the same time. We cause as much pain in the world when we take offense as when we give it. Faith G - Original Message - From: Dee To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 8:22 AM Subject: Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone... I agree totally with you Mary Ann, civility costs nothing and it is surely a positive thing to make people feel good rather than the opposite, no matter how clever one may think one is, or how dumb one may think the other person is! Dee ---Original Message--- From: marmar...@bellsouth.net Date: 07/11/2007 17:43:08 To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSSimon aka Charles is gone... Boy -- I've got to respectfully disagree with this Mike. And pardon me for speaking out --I've been sitting on my hands thinking that I should be the one to be silent now. But that's what's wrong with our world -- the ones who object remain silent. The measure of any group of people in society -- cyber-society included -- is the level of behavior of the least of that society. If it is required of polite people to become thick-skinned and tolerate bad behavior, then everyone loses because as we become that way we also become insensitive to our own behavior towards others. Isn't that a slippery slope?
frustrations and insults was RE: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
True thing ..the Soul -the Atma- is never offended, is untouchable indeed YET: the body, with the mind as its loyal servant (that's what mind shouls be really) has to learn that until it has learned it suffers from pain, frustrations and insults FaithStFrancis Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:39:47 -0600From: li...@choctaw-oklahoma.usto: silver-l...@eskimo.comsubject: Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone... A newbie here. I would just like to point out that a person is offended by his/her own choice, no matter how many times it happens or how many people it happens to. I personally chose not to be offended by anyone or anything. Makes life a lot more pleasurable. Linda ---Original Message--- From: M. G. Devour Date: 11/6/2007 10:42:58 AM To: Simon Jester; silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSSimon aka Charles is gone... faith gagne wrote: Simon I think you meant well. Of course he means well. He tries to help. He can't resist abrasive personal jabs while doing so. People get mad at him. He denies being responsible for the results. Yes, in any specific case it is the choice of his victim to be offended or not. The fact that this happens again and again proves the problem is his, not theirs. The world is as it is. It will not change for Charles. A is A, dude. Thank you Faith... the fact is, I do mean well - and everyone here would most likely not recognize me if they spoke to me in person. Sure, and your readers don't see the expression on your face or hear the tone of your voice, or have your posture and gestures to read. If you behaved in person the way you come across in text, you'd have been poked in the nose often enough to cause you to make the effort to be pleasant to people. Too many people take candor and/or succinctness for rudeness. You excuse rudeness as candor and carelessness for succinctness. It takes effort to communicate in this medium, which you choose not to make. No worries... my skin is quite thick enough that Mike's public chastisements don't bother me... and I do understand where he's coming from, and don't necessarily disagree... Thank you, I'm glad you understand. One of the requirements of participation in this forum is compliance with my direction. If you won't cooperate with me and your behavior remains disruptive I will exclude you from the group. ... its just not me. You've made your choice. Be well, Mike Devour silver-list owner [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com _ Explore the seven wonders of the world http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=7+wonders+worldmkt=en-USform=QBRE
Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
I do not agree at all. I do not demand that others treat me exactly the way I need to be treated in order for me to feel good about myself. This places quite a burden on friends, neighbors and the entire world, and it does not require me to make any effort at all to understand where other people are coming from. To insist that all others dance in attendance to my emotional wants and needs places a HUGE demand on the rest of the world.To automatically assume that the other person sees me as dumb is a construct of my own thinking designed to keep my demands in place and up front.Nobody lives between my ears but me. I'm in there all by myself so I cannot blame other people for what emerges from my own thinking.. I may not always agree with what the other person has to say and I may not even like what the other person has to say, but I'd damned well better love their RIGHT to say it because I cannot muzzle the next guy without muzzling myself at the same time. We cause as much pain in the world when we take offense as when we give it. Faith G Well put. . . .Faith. . . . As Archie Bunker would say. . . . Case Closed ! Smitty -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
Thank you. Faith G - Original Message - From: Smitty papad...@gmail.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 11:52 AM Subject: Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone... I do not agree at all. I do not demand that others treat me exactly the way I need to be treated in order for me to feel good about myself. This places quite a burden on friends, neighbors and the entire world, and it does not require me to make any effort at all to understand where other people are coming from. To insist that all others dance in attendance to my emotional wants and needs places a HUGE demand on the rest of the world.To automatically assume that the other person sees me as dumb is a construct of my own thinking designed to keep my demands in place and up front.Nobody lives between my ears but me. I'm in there all by myself so I cannot blame other people for what emerges from my own thinking.. I may not always agree with what the other person has to say and I may not even like what the other person has to say, but I'd damned well better love their RIGHT to say it because I cannot muzzle the next guy without muzzling myself at the same time. We cause as much pain in the world when we take offense as when we give it. Faith G Well put. . . .Faith. . . . As Archie Bunker would say. . . . Case Closed ! Smitty -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
Hi Faith. I think you are confusing the right to free speech with the right to be rude. Twisted thinking like that is what encourages people to behave badly in public. This is especially true in this day and age of cyber-societies, where people can hide behind their computer and say what they want with relative impunity. I don't think that's what the founding fathers had in mind when they created the doctrine of free speech -- that it be a vehicle for people to attack other people without provocation. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion -- as am I. MA
Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
Thank you Mike. I really do not want to get into these back and forth one-upmanship things that we can all get into from time to time.. I think I just responded to something, but I will now try to refrain from responding to any more of them. I don't have to respond. In just moving on I will be helping to create the atmosphere you are working toward and which I appreciate. Faith G - Original Message - From: M. G. Devour mdev...@eskimo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 12:54 PM Subject: Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone... Faith concludes: We cause as much pain in the world when we take offense as when we give it. Very interesting summation of the idea, Faith. Dee writes: I agree totally with you Mary Ann, civility costs nothing and it is surely a positive thing to make people feel good rather than the opposite... Civility costs effort, more or less depending on your personality. grin Mary Ann says: The measure of any group of people in society -- cyber-society included -- is the level of behavior of the least of that society. If it is required of polite people to become thick-skinned and tolerate bad behavior, then everyone loses Yes, and somewhere between these two legitimate ideals -- perfect civility and perfect immunity -- is the reality we live in. Anybody who wants to launch into great dramas every time somebody else says something that can be stretched enough to be interpreted as offensive will be just as disruptive as Simon/Charles, as well as fail to achieve any of their own goals for their participation. We've all seen these personalities. They usually don't hang around very long. On the other hand, if you stubbornly persist in injecting unnecessary little personal jabs at people while ostensibly helping them, you're going to create a problem, too. Still, the reason I'm most disappointed in Charles, is that this list is, in essence, my property, the product of my labor. The atmosphere I foster, the effort I put into making it a welcoming place and keeping the discussion on an even keel, is what will make the group attractive to people and allow them to use it to meet their own needs and encourage them to help each other. You don't come in here and expect to be able to dictate standards of behavior! I'm astonished that an ostensible libertarian would be so disrespectful of another person's property rights! And be persistently aggressive, too. Both are antithetical to libertarian philosophy. sigh So I agree with everyone who says you shouldn't let yourself be bothered by idiots on the 'net. But that doesn't mean I'm obliged to let anyone come in here and stealthily corrupt the atmosphere I'm trying to create with hostile and aggressive behavior. Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
Mike, I understand your responsibility here and I you have soemthing of a tough job. Faith G - Original Message - From: M. G. Devour mdev...@eskimo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 1:38 AM Subject: Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone... Smitty wrote: he's gone. . . .but not forgotten. . . . . . . . Kathryn wrote: second that... No doubt. I do not enjoy booting people. I would ask all of you not to ever demand it of me for insiginificant or selfish reasons. As much as we ought to expect courtesy and consideration from each other, a measure of tolerance and thick-skinned resiliency is required of us as well. In slightly different circumstances I'd not mind nor care about his seeming one-man crusade to convert people to responsible, self-reliant individuals by being rude to them. blink, blink Here, now, I can't ignore it or condone it. Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
I understand. It is a part of your job as list owner, and you do the job very well. I have gotten much help here, have learned a great deal, and if I had been dumped on when I first joined, I might not have done that. I think I have a reasonable amount of thick skinnedness, maybe due to the over abundance of men in my life (grin, wink wink), but it can still bring me to tears if I am very ill. No one here has done that, though, so not to worry. I think you are more understanding of the position ill people are in than many others on the web, and it brings compassion and civility to this group. Thanks for that. Kathryn On Nov 6, 2007, at 7:43 PM, M. G. Devour wrote: Smitty wrote: he's gone. . . .but not forgotten. . . . . . . . Kathryn wrote: second that... No doubt. I do not enjoy booting people. I would ask all of you not to ever demand it of me for insiginificant or selfish reasons. As much as we ought to expect courtesy and consideration from each other, a measure of tolerance and thick-skinned resiliency is required of us as well. In slightly different circumstances I'd not mind nor care about his seeming one-man crusade to convert people to responsible, self-reliant individuals by being rude to them. blink, blink Here, now, I can't ignore it or condone it. Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
-- Original message from M. G. Devour mdev...@eskimo.com: -- As much as we ought to expect courtesy and consideration from each other, a measure of tolerance and thick-skinned resiliency is required of us as well. and In slightly different circumstances I'd not mind nor care about his seeming one-man crusade to convert people to responsible, self-reliant individuals by being rude to them. Boy -- I've got to respectfully disagree with this Mike. And pardon me for speaking out --I've been sitting on my hands thinking that I should be the one to be silent now. But that's what's wrong with our world -- the ones who object remain silent. The measure of any group of people in society -- cyber-society included -- is the level of behavior of the least of that society. If it is required of polite people to become thick-skinned and tolerate bad behavior, then everyone loses because as we become that way we also become insensitive to our own behavior towards others. Isn't that a slippery slope? Isn't that in large part what's wrong with our Country and our world today? How much differently this would have all turned out if instead of saying you must not have tried too hard -- Simon had simply said try this or here ya go. He could have been thinking ya big dummy or any other negative thing that he wanted -- it wouldn't have hurt a thing. It costs nothing t o be polite. Someone on the list, by way of excusing Simon's behavior, said that if I thought his behavior was bad, I should be on another list where the behavior is brutal. Why would you justify bad behavior by worse behavior? I wouldn't be a part of that list where brutal behavior is acceptable. I don't think I'm the only one who feels that way -- we lost two members this week who unsubscribed publicly, and I wonder how many others just quietly went away? We need to be especially aware of how we appear to newcomers. This is supposed to be a place where people can ask questions and request help. How will that happen if requests for help are treated the way Simon treated mine? We are all guests in Mike's online *house*, and we have an obligation to be civil to each other. If there's a mean dog on the porch, no one's gonna come in. Even Simon said that he doesn't behave this way in public. I regret that I was the catalyst for Simon leaving the list. I will make an effort t o try not to become embroiled again. But I was not the first object of Simon's disdain -- as Ode and Dan can attest -- and I doubt I would have been the last. I think your decision to end Simon's membership was the right one, and I hope I have not offended anyone by speaking my mind. Mary Ann
Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
A newbie here. I would just like to point out that a person is offended by his/her own choice, no matter how many times it happens or how many people it happens to I personally chose not to be offended by anyone or anything. Makes life a lot more pleasurable. Linda ---Original Message--- From: M. G. Devour Date: 11/6/2007 10:42:58 AM To: Simon Jester; silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSSimon aka Charles is gone... faith gagne wrote: Simon I think you meant well. Of course he means well. He tries to help. He can't resist abrasive personal jabs while doing so. People get mad at him. He denies being responsible for the results. Yes, in any specific case it is the choice of his victim to be offended or not. The fact that this happens again and again proves the problem is his, not theirs. The world is as it is. It will not change for Charles. A is A, dude. Thank you Faith... the fact is, I do mean well - and everyone here would most likely not recognize me if they spoke to me in person. Sure, and your readers don't see the expression on your face or hear the tone of your voice, or have your posture and gestures to read. If you behaved in person the way you come across in text, you'd have been poked in the nose often enough to cause you to make the effort to be pleasant to people. Too many people take candor and/or succinctness for rudeness. You excuse rudeness as candor and carelessness for succinctness. It takes effort to communicate in this medium, which you choose not to make. No worries... my skin is quite thick enough that Mike's public chastisements don't bother me... and I do understand where he's coming from, and don't necessarily disagree... Thank you, I'm glad you understand. One of the requirements of participation in this forum is compliance with my direction. If you won't cooperate with me and your behavior remains disruptive I will exclude you from the group. ... its just not me. You've made your choice. Be well, Mike Devour silver-list owner [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
faith gagne wrote: Simon I think you meant well. Of course he means well. He tries to help. He can't resist abrasive personal jabs while doing so. People get mad at him. He denies being responsible for the results. Yes, in any specific case it is the choice of his victim to be offended or not. The fact that this happens again and again proves the problem is his, not theirs. The world is as it is. It will not change for Charles. A is A, dude. Thank you Faith... the fact is, I do mean well - and everyone here would most likely not recognize me if they spoke to me in person. Sure, and your readers don't see the expression on your face or hear the tone of your voice, or have your posture and gestures to read. If you behaved in person the way you come across in text, you'd have been poked in the nose often enough to cause you to make the effort to be pleasant to people. Too many people take candor and/or succinctness for rudeness. You excuse rudeness as candor and carelessness for succinctness. It takes effort to communicate in this medium, which you choose not to make. No worries... my skin is quite thick enough that Mike's public chastisements don't bother me... and I do understand where he's coming from, and don't necessarily disagree... Thank you, I'm glad you understand. One of the requirements of participation in this forum is compliance with my direction. If you won't cooperate with me and your behavior remains disruptive I will exclude you from the group. ... its just not me. You've made your choice. Be well, Mike Devour silver-list owner [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
And may I be the first to CONGRATULATE you MiKe for your clarity of thought, wisdom, knowledge, experience, down to earth practicality, and plain 'ole good common sense. Lest I forget, Thank you so much for just plain BEING You! I like it! S-Max ---Original Message--- From: M. G. Devour Date: 11/6/2007 8:43:22 AM To: Simon Jester; silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSSimon aka Charles is gone... faith gagne wrote: Simon I think you meant well. Of course he means well. He tries to help. He can't resist abrasive personal jabs while doing so. People get mad at him. He denies being responsible for the results. Yes, in any specific case it is the choice of his victim to be offended or not. The fact that this happens again and again proves the problem is his, not theirs. The world is as it is. It will not change for Charles. A is A, dude. Thank you Faith... the fact is, I do mean well - and everyone here would most likely not recognize me if they spoke to me in person. Sure, and your readers don't see the expression on your face or hear the tone of your voice, or have your posture and gestures to read. If you behaved in person the way you come across in text, you'd have been poked in the nose often enough to cause you to make the effort to be pleasant to people. Too many people take candor and/or succinctness for rudeness. You excuse rudeness as candor and carelessness for succinctness. It takes effort to communicate in this medium, which you choose not to make. No worries... my skin is quite thick enough that Mike's public chastisements don't bother me... and I do understand where he's coming from, and don't necessarily disagree... Thank you, I'm glad you understand. One of the requirements of participation in this forum is compliance with my direction. If you won't cooperate with me and your behavior remains disruptive I will exclude you from the group. ... its just not me. You've made your choice. Be well, Mike Devour silver-list owner -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
he's gone. . . .but not forgotten. . . . . . . . -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
second that... On Nov 6, 2007, at 4:15 PM, Smitty wrote: he's gone. . . .but not forgotten. . . . . . . . -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSimon aka Charles is gone...
Smitty wrote: he's gone. . . .but not forgotten. . . . . . . . Kathryn wrote: second that... No doubt. I do not enjoy booting people. I would ask all of you not to ever demand it of me for insiginificant or selfish reasons. As much as we ought to expect courtesy and consideration from each other, a measure of tolerance and thick-skinned resiliency is required of us as well. In slightly different circumstances I'd not mind nor care about his seeming one-man crusade to convert people to responsible, self-reliant individuals by being rude to them. blink, blink Here, now, I can't ignore it or condone it. Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
