Re: [Simh] SIMH: KDP/DUP/DMC: ECONNREFUSED
Please elaborate by providing: 1) config files for both sides. 2) SHOW VERSION output for both sides 3) describe your host network topology - Mark On May 22, 2015 6:38 PM, Cory Smelosky b...@gewt.net wrote: Hey, I can't attach either end of the virtual line because something returns ECONNREFUSED. I would open the socket by attaching the device...but every time I attach it returns ECONNREFUSED. So...how do I attach the DUP/DMC now? It worked before with a lot of massaging. -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] SIMH: KDP/DUP/DMC: ECONNREFUSED
Hey, I can't attach either end of the virtual line because something returns ECONNREFUSED. I would open the socket by attaching the device...but every time I attach it returns ECONNREFUSED. So...how do I attach the DUP/DMC now? It worked before with a lot of massaging. -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] SIMH: KDP/DUP/DMC: ECONNREFUSED
On Fri, 22 May 2015, Mark Pizzolato wrote: Please elaborate by providing: 1) config files for both sides. PDP10 side: set kdp en set dup en at dup0 2107,Connect=127.0.0.1:2108,UDP VAX side: set xu en set xu MAC=02:02:06:AA:DD:EE set dmc lines=8 set dmc0 peer=127.0.0.1:2107 att dmc0 2108,UDP at xu vde:/tmp/vde at rq0 vms073-ra92-boot.dsk 2) SHOW VERSION output for both sides PDP10 side: PDP-10 simulator V4.0-0 Beta Simulator Framework Capabilities: 64b data 32b addresses no Ethernet Idle/Throttling support is available Virtual Hard Disk (VHD) support Asynchronous I/O support FrontPanel API Version 1 Host Platform: Compiler: GCC 4.2.1 Compatible FreeBSD Clang 3.4.1 (tags/RELEASE_34/dot1-final 208032) Simulator Compiled: May 11 2015 at 19:51:32 Memory Access: Little Endian Memory Pointer Size: 64 bits Large File (2GB) support RegEx support for EXPECT commands OS clock tick size (time taken by msleep(1)): 2ms OS: FreeBSD green 10.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 10.1-RELEASE #0 r274401: Tue Nov 11 21:02:49 UTC 2014 r...@releng1.nyi.freebsd.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC amd64 git commit id: 230e588b VAX side: VAX 11/780 simulator V4.0-0 Beta Simulator Framework Capabilities: 64b data 64b addresses Ethernet Packet transport:PCAP:TAP:VDE:UDP Idle/Throttling support is available Virtual Hard Disk (VHD) support Asynchronous I/O support FrontPanel API Version 1 Host Platform: Compiler: GCC 4.2.1 Compatible FreeBSD Clang 3.4.1 (tags/RELEASE_34/dot1-final 208032) Simulator Compiled: Apr 24 2015 at 01:30:21 Memory Access: Little Endian Memory Pointer Size: 64 bits Large File (2GB) support RegEx support for EXPECT commands OS clock tick size (time taken by msleep(1)): 3ms OS: FreeBSD green 10.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 10.1-RELEASE #0 r274401: Tue Nov 11 21:02:49 UTC 2014 r...@releng1.nyi.freebsd.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC amd64 git commit id: 71b99c6f 3) describe your host network topology FreeBSD - Mark -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Timing dependencies in operating systems
On 22-May-15 16:52, Bob Supnik wrote: The RSX TPC issue is just one example of numerous timing dependencies that have cropped up over the years. There's a paper on the SimH web site about some of my favorites (Bug, Feature, or Code Rot?). If I can ever find Tim Shoppa and get access to the web site again, I'll update the paper. There's no real solution short of introducing accurate timing and then modeling every device with real world delays. I remember how real DEC machines worked -- slowly -- so I'm not much of a fan of that idea. Further, DEC IO devices were attached to systems with different performance levels. A delay that's right for the 0.6mip J11 may be dead wrong for the 2.5mp CVAX and vice-versa. (Indeed, between VAX NetBSD, VAX OpenBSD, and RSX, there is no single value for the RQ's queuing delay that will work properly.) As particular issues crop up, minimum delays are adjusted to accommodate as much of the software base as possible, but no solution that allows the simulators and their IO to run faster than real time will be perfect. We can probably find another site to host the papers - which could become a mirror if Tim ever reappears. For their time, DEC machines seemed speedy enough - we're quite spoiled now :-) But of course you're right that in general delays are a morass with no perfect solution. This time we were lucky. Perhaps one way to capture the knowledge of what works would be to create init command files named for each platform / os. They could be populated with the right set/deposit commands to setup delays for that platform. And then users wouldn't have to do their own research. e.g. vax_netbsd.cmd, vax_openbsd.cmd and pdp11_rsx.cmd could each have the right RQ delay for that platform. The only complication (besides finding the values!) is making sure that the commands work or fail silently in any configuration of enabled devices. Ideally, a user init file looks like: @pdp11_rsx ! Distributed with SimH updated as events warrant (configure memory/devices to taste) boot xx For the more complex cases, one can nest files, so @j11_rsx.cmd could call @pdp11_rsx.cmd, then set the J11-specific delays Of course, where the defaults can be tuned, that's preferable. At least such a library of init files would record what's known, and provide a somewhat modular way to update the users. FWIW. Better ideas are welcome. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Problem with reading tape with PDP-11 SIMH
So now that Alan has TPC working, where and how do we document all this, i.e. the symptoms, the underlying SIMH design behavior vs the expected RSX behavior that cause it to manifest itself as a problem, and the DEP TS TIME solution, in an easy-to-find way so the next person doesn't have to go through this pain ? There is an awful lot of collective wisdom from the contributors to this e-mail list, but unless someone diligently searches the mailing list archives and gets lucky, it's not easy for a user to solve their own problem, even if it's been seen several times previously. The SIMH FAQ on the trailing edge web site (in PDF) has not been updated in 3 years, and the DOC version on GitHub was last updated a little over 2 years ago, and I wonder whether a better living form of documentation like a Wiki would be a more useful solution. i.e. when a system-specific usage-related problem is discovered (and hopefully fixed), the cause, effect and solution is distilled into an appropriate new or existing Wiki page. As I read the e-mails on this list, I am in constant awe at the depth of knowledge that many contributors have - in this particular case Mark and Timothe did the heavy lifting to help Alan, but there are many others whose first-hand experience back in the day drives SIMH user problems to a solution. How do we preserve everyone's legacy of product knowledge for future generations who will use SIMH long after they are gone ? To me it's as important as preserving the knowledge of the hardware SIMH simulates. Jason -Original Message- From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Alan Frisbie Sent: Thursday, 21 May 2015 8:16 PM To: m...@infocomm.com Cc: SIMH@trailing-edge.com Subject: Re: [Simh] Problem with reading tape with PDP-11 SIMH Mark, Please follow Timothe Litt's suggestion and get back to me with the minimal value of DEP TS TIME which produces reasonable results for the original TPC problem you saw. Here are the results: 5000 - TPC works fine 2500 - TPC works fine 1800 - TPC works fine 1500 - TPC works fine, RSX reported tape drive errors 1350 - TPC works fine, RSX reported tape drive errors 1200 - TPC hangs 0- TPC hangs To be safe, I think I'll use 2000 from now on when using TPC. Thanks a lot for all the help. It saved me a lot of debugging and head scratching. Alan Frisbie ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Problem with reading tape with PDP-11 SIMH
In general, I agree.The problem is not that someone should document things, but that a specific someone has to make the time available and do it... A volunteer community doesn't automagically do things. I believe GitHub allows setting up a wiki - if someone cares to manage it. In this case I believe that the plan is to update the default delay so that TPC will work with SimH out of the box. This communication may not represent my employer's views, if any, on the matters discussed. On 22-May-15 10:43, Armistead, Jason BIS wrote: So now that Alan has TPC working, where and how do we document all this, i.e. the symptoms, the underlying SIMH design behavior vs the expected RSX behavior that cause it to manifest itself as a problem, and the DEP TS TIME solution, in an easy-to-find way so the next person doesn't have to go through this pain ? There is an awful lot of collective wisdom from the contributors to this e-mail list, but unless someone diligently searches the mailing list archives and gets lucky, it's not easy for a user to solve their own problem, even if it's been seen several times previously. The SIMH FAQ on the trailing edge web site (in PDF) has not been updated in 3 years, and the DOC version on GitHub was last updated a little over 2 years ago, and I wonder whether a better living form of documentation like a Wiki would be a more useful solution. i.e. when a system-specific usage-related problem is discovered (and hopefully fixed), the cause, effect and solution is distilled into an appropriate new or existing Wiki page. As I read the e-mails on this list, I am in constant awe at the depth of knowledge that many contributors have - in this particular case Mark and Timothe did the heavy lifting to help Alan, but there are many others whose first-hand experience back in the day drives SIMH user problems to a solution. How do we preserve everyone's legacy of product knowledge for future generations who will use SIMH long after they are gone ? To me it's as important as preserving the knowledge of the hardware SIMH simulates. Jason -Original Message- From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Alan Frisbie Sent: Thursday, 21 May 2015 8:16 PM To: m...@infocomm.com Cc: SIMH@trailing-edge.com Subject: Re: [Simh] Problem with reading tape with PDP-11 SIMH Mark, Please follow Timothe Litt's suggestion and get back to me with the minimal value of DEP TS TIME which produces reasonable results for the original TPC problem you saw. Here are the results: 5000 - TPC works fine 2500 - TPC works fine 1800 - TPC works fine 1500 - TPC works fine, RSX reported tape drive errors 1350 - TPC works fine, RSX reported tape drive errors 1200 - TPC hangs 0- TPC hangs To be safe, I think I'll use 2000 from now on when using TPC. Thanks a lot for all the help. It saved me a lot of debugging and head scratching. Alan Frisbie ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
