Re: [Simh] GOLD Keys and such

[Will Senn]

On 12/19/15 3:01 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:

On 2015-12-19 21:57, Will Senn wrote:



On 12/19/15 1:42 PM, Random832 wrote:

Either's VT100 emulation should be acceptable, though


Latest update, taking bits and pieces from folks comments...

I started Terminal and set the terminal variable to VT100 then started a
new bash:
TERM=vt100 exec bash


I hope you understand that the TERM environment variable in Unix don't 
actually do anything, except inform running programs that they should 
try to work the terminal using VT100 control sequences.
Yup. I had read this, but now I understand it even better. It's an 
environment variable only and therefore only meaningful to the programs 
looking for it. I have no idea if simh cares about it and after you 
commented, I tried it without the environment variable and sure enough, 
it works fine. So, really, the only thing needed is the keymapping for 
ESC-O-w


RT-11 do not know, nor care, about a Unix environment variable. So 
that thing is actually totally meaningless here. :-)


Indeed.



started the rt-11 simulation
pdp11 boot.ini

then tried ked somefile

I was able to use fn-F1 as the Gold Key, but I couldn't figure out how
to get Command. I then hooked up a regular mac keyboard to the laptop
(it has a numeric keypad) and was able to get both fn-F1 and numeric
keypad 7 to work as GOLD-COMMAND. This was encouraging. I went back to
the laptop keyboard and was able to use fn-F1 as GOLD and then ESC-O-w
as command, remembering y'alls advice. This was workable, but not ideal.
So, I took a look at the keyboard tab in Terminal preferences and was
able to assign ESC-o-w to a key and voila, rational keyboard :).

Thanks for all of the tips and pointers. I am pretty pleased with the
way things are working now and have a much greater level of
understanding of how to figure these sorts of issues out going forward.
I am glad that it works with a regular terminal because copy and paste
and such in the host is much simpler than with xterm or another 
emulator.


Excellent. More knowledge is always useful.

Johnny



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Re: [Simh] GOLD Keys and such

[Clem Cole]

Check out:   http://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.faq.html

There is a really good description of the keymapping process for xterm as
well as tools to set the things for you.
As Johnny says - be careful many, many terminal emulators are close to
VT-100 but not the same.  More over, VT-100 != ANSI  a often miss
understood concept.

DEC developed the VT-100 during the ANSI terminal sequence project and
released it before the spec was made final.  There are a number of
difference and they will bite you.   If you want a VT-100 (which for VMS et
al, you do), then you want a true DEC emulation.

That said, if you are running UNIX and want a real ANSI implementation, the
Wyse-60 was probably the truest implementation of the ANSI spec I ran into
back in the day (although it was not full color).  I believe MacWise will
emulate the Wyse-60.   Truth be told I have have one (and miss it's
keyboard).  The console for my Masscomp MC-500 ;-)

Clem

On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Will Senn  wrote:

>
>
> On 12/19/15 2:58 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
>
>>
>> As for double width and double height, xterm does it just fine. In fact,
>> xterm is the only implementation that I don't know of any incompatibilities
>> in.
>>
>> Johnny
>>
>> Johnny,
>
> I am trying to use xterm, now that I have terminal behaving better. But,
> the keymapping is really weird: pressing the delete key displays ^H,
> pressing CTRL-DELETE, effectively backspaces, and pressing fn-F5, which in
> Terminal is mapped to ESC-O-w, displays 5~.  Do you know where xterm is
> getting its key mapping from? If it's a file, do you know of a VT100 file
> of mappings? I have a feeling that the default mapping is way off.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Will
>
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Re: [Simh] GOLD Keys and such

[Random832]

Johnny Billquist  writes:
>> On another note, it seems like the Mac Terminal ought to work as a
>> VT100, or even VT52, since they are in the avanced section of the
>> properties list, but I can't figure out how to make them behave reasonably.
>
> In which way are they not behaving "properly"?

In my own investigation, Terminal.app's VT52 mode does not cause the
keyboard special keys to send VT52 escape sequences. iTerm2, for its
part, does not support VT52 mode at all, and does not send local-mode
escape sequences (e.g. ESC [A) from the arrow keys.

Either's VT100 emulation should be acceptable, though.

Its UI may be clunky or dated, but as far as emulation capabilities go,
xterm really is the cadillac of VT100 emulators.

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Re: [Simh] GOLD Keys and such

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2015-12-19 22:33, Will Senn wrote:



On 12/19/15 2:58 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:


As for double width and double height, xterm does it just fine. In
fact, xterm is the only implementation that I don't know of any
incompatibilities in.

Johnny


Johnny,

I am trying to use xterm, now that I have terminal behaving better. But,
the keymapping is really weird: pressing the delete key displays ^H,
pressing CTRL-DELETE, effectively backspaces, and pressing fn-F5, which
in Terminal is mapped to ESC-O-w, displays 5~.  Do you know where xterm
is getting its key mapping from? If it's a file, do you know of a VT100
file of mappings? I have a feeling that the default mapping is way off.


Ah. xterm have lots of knobs, but it's not always so easy to figure them 
all out.


The delete thing, for example, can work in several ways. If you press 
control and the left mouse button, you should get a menu where you can 
deselect "Delete is DEL". I suspect you have that selected right now.


As for keyboard behavior, you have several parts to it. One is that 
xterm can also "emulate" other keyboard than DEC ones. See that menu 
mentioned above again.
Second, the numeric keyboard on a VT100 can actually send different 
codes, depending on mode. The computer can send specific escape 
sequences to change the number keypad into and out of application mode. 
And depending on that, the keys send different stuff. If you press 
controler and the middle mouse button, you'll find another menu, where 
you can manually turn on and off application keypad, as well as 
application cursor keys.


The man-page for xterm is really long, but read it through once or 
twice, and you'll find all you need in there.


The things I mentioned in the menus are also available as command line 
switches, and also as X resources.


Johnny


--
Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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Re: [Simh] GOLD Keys and such

[lists]

On Sat, 19 Dec 2015 15:44:26 -0500
Christian Gauger-Cosgrove  wrote:

> On 19 December 2015 at 14:42, Random832  wrote:
> > Its UI may be clunky or dated, but as far as emulation capabilities go,
> > xterm really is the cadillac of VT100 emulators.
> >
> Just would like to state that in Windows-land PuTTY does an excellent
> job of emulating the VT-100; even doing the dual-wide and dual-height
> characters (which I don't think I've seen done in others before... at
> least other emulators in Windows).
> 
> The one and only problem I've found with PuTTY is that for some reason
> it's telnet is not compatible with the Hercules (IBM System/370 and up
> mainframe emulator; not SIMH project) emulator.

That is because IBM doesn't use telnet or serial terminals. They use the
3270 series terminals and the tn3270 protocol is used by terminal emulators.
There is an excellent, free and open source tn3270 emulator that was
originally developed by Sun and is currently maintained.

Look at http://x3270.bgp.nu/

It runs on Windows, Linux, Solaris, and I would suspect most UNIX-like
systems.

There are other 3270 emulators for Windows but as far as I know they are
all proprietary and sell for money.

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Re: [Simh] GOLD Keys and such

[Will Senn]

On 12/18/15 7:57 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:


GOLD and COMMAND on the other hand are specific keys on DEC terminals, 
that both sent specific sequences of characters when pressed. As such, 
this is a bit more complicated. You could of course just send those 
sequence of characters yourself, but it might be non-trivial to 
remember the exact sequence, and there might also be timeouts in some 
software that could defeat you if you try typing them in by hand.
Also, different DEC terminals might have sent different sequences for 
those keys, so the exact sequence might depend on what terminal you 
appear to have.


Johnny,

I am now using MacWise in VT100 mode and have figured out how to get 
GOLD and COMMAND to work (mapped {ESC O P to PF1 and {ESC O w to PF7 in 
MacWise). However, I'm still wrapping my head around what is happening 
as a result with respect to the keycodes. You explanation around 
timeouts is interesting and helpful. I have been reading the VT101 User 
Manual and that too, is helpful, although, there are a whole lot of 
codes and it would seem that I only need to be concerned with a few.


Let me ask you this, if I need to send a form feed or a line feed or 
another ascii character that is not given a direct representation (or 
the correct representation) by my keyboard, is there a mechanism to send 
the keycode directly? For example, linefeed is ASCII decimal 10. Is 
there an escape sequence that is equivalent to sending 10 across (maybe 
something along the lines of ESC [ 1 0 or something)?


On another note, it seems like the Mac Terminal ought to work as a 
VT100, or even VT52, since they are in the avanced section of the 
properties list, but I can't figure out how to make them behave reasonably.


Thanks,

Will
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