Re: [Simh] GOLD Keys and such
On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 14:26:20 -0500 Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: > However, in the IBM mainframe world, there were the "typewriter" > terminals, like the 1052-7 and 3215. Also, let's not forget the IBM > 2703 Communications Control unit; which had the option of using the > IBM Telegraph Terminal Control Type II; which provides a way for Model > 33 and Model 35 TWX terminals to connect to a mainframe. Hercules > emulates all of those (the 1052-7, 3215, and 2703 with TELE2); the way > to connect to those are via "plain" telnet. We should clarify the way you connect to Hercules _emulating_ those devices is telnet. Telnet does not work with real IBM devices on real IBM mainframe hardware. -- Please DO NOT COPY ME on mailing list replies. I read the mailing list. RSA 4096 fingerprint 7940 3F02 16D3 AFEE F2F8 ACAA 557C 4B36 98E4 4D49 ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] GOLD Keys and such
On Sat, 19 Dec 2015 15:44:26 -0500 Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: > The one and only problem I've found with PuTTY is that for some reason > it's telnet is not compatible with the Hercules (IBM System/370 and up > mainframe emulator; not SIMH project) emulator. On 20 December 2015 at 01:28, wrote: > That is because IBM doesn't use telnet or serial terminals. They use the > 3270 series terminals and the tn3270 protocol is used by terminal > emulators. On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 14:26:20 -0500 Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: > Yes and no. Yes, the majority of time you use a tn3270 emulator to > pretend to be a 3278 or 3279 of some sort; as either an operator > console, or as a TSO terminal. Even for the mid 1970s MVS 3.8 OS IBM placed in the public domain nobody uses anything but 3278s except maybe for console logging (not as a general console). The printing terminals were useful for OS/360 console loggers but few Hercules users run OS/360. Bottom line and for everything else when you're using a terminal with MVS it's a 3278 and needs a tn3270 client if you are not direct attached. tn3270 covers 100% of normal use cases for MVS terminals except if you insist on using an optional printing console. You certainly don't need one. > However, in the IBM mainframe world, there were the "typewriter" > terminals, like the 1052-7 and 3215. Also, let's not forget the IBM > 2703 Communications Control unit; which had the option of using the > IBM Telegraph Terminal Control Type II; which provides a way for Model > 33 and Model 35 TWX terminals to connect to a mainframe. Hercules > emulates all of those (the 1052-7, 3215, and 2703 with TELE2); the way > to connect to those are via "plain" telnet. Are you saying Putty's telnet doesn't support the printing terminals Hercules supports? Because if that is not what you are saying then we seem to be going around in circles. Telnet clearly won't work for a normal IBM terminal. -- Please DO NOT COPY ME on mailing list replies. I read the mailing list. RSA 4096 fingerprint 7940 3F02 16D3 AFEE F2F8 ACAA 557C 4B36 98E4 4D49 ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] GOLD Keys and such
On 12/19/15 3:44 PM, Random832 wrote: Will Senn writes: I am trying to use xterm, now that I have terminal behaving better. But, the keymapping is really weird: pressing the delete key displays ^H, pressing CTRL-DELETE, effectively backspaces, and pressing fn-F5, which in Terminal is mapped to ESC-O-w, displays 5~. Do you know where xterm is getting its key mapping from? If it's a file, do you know of a VT100 file of mappings? I have a feeling that the default mapping is way off. Xterm's mappings are bult in. F5 and beyond are based on the VT220, since there were no equivalent keys on a real VT100. You would need to use a numeric keypad to get keys like ESC-O-w from the default mappings. You can control the keys in ~/.Xdefaults, though. See the answer to this question on Stack Overflow: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11840763/ Delete and Backspace is an issue with a long history, and can be controlled through a separate option "backarrowKeyIsErase". As for the delete-backspace issue, I appreciate the tip. Anne Baretta did a really good write up on how to get consistent behavior in linux for these miscreant keys: http://www.ibb.net/~anne/keyboard/keyboard.html Thanks, Will ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] GOLD Keys and such
On 12/19/15 3:44 PM, Random832 wrote: Will Senn writes: I am trying to use xterm, now that I have terminal behaving better. But, the keymapping is really weird: pressing the delete key displays ^H, pressing CTRL-DELETE, effectively backspaces, and pressing fn-F5, which in Terminal is mapped to ESC-O-w, displays 5~. Do you know where xterm is getting its key mapping from? If it's a file, do you know of a VT100 file of mappings? I have a feeling that the default mapping is way off. Xterm's mappings are bult in. F5 and beyond are based on the VT220, since there were no equivalent keys on a real VT100. You would need to use a numeric keypad to get keys like ESC-O-w from the default mappings. You can control the keys in ~/.Xdefaults, though. See the answer to this question on Stack Overflow: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11840763/ Delete and Backspace is an issue with a long history, and can be controlled through a separate option "backarrowKeyIsErase". Thanks for this. I eventually worked out how to map keys in xterm (and figured out copy/paste syncing on mac): in .Xresources *VT100.translations: #override\ F5: string(\033Ow)\n\ Woohoo. -will ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] GOLD Keys and such
On 20 December 2015 at 01:28, wrote: > That is because IBM doesn't use telnet or serial terminals. They use the > 3270 series terminals and the tn3270 protocol is used by terminal emulators. Yes and no. Yes, the majority of time you use a tn3270 emulator to pretend to be a 3278 or 3279 of some sort; as either an operator console, or as a TSO terminal. However, in the IBM mainframe world, there were the "typewriter" terminals, like the 1052-7 and 3215. Also, let's not forget the IBM 2703 Communications Control unit; which had the option of using the IBM Telegraph Terminal Control Type II; which provides a way for Model 33 and Model 35 TWX terminals to connect to a mainframe. Hercules emulates all of those (the 1052-7, 3215, and 2703 with TELE2); the way to connect to those are via "plain" telnet. The 1052-7 and 3215 emulations are there for being console terminals (and you can specify 1052-C or 3215-C to have those consoles appear in the Hercules interface itself); while the 2703 with TELE2 is relatively new and let's you connect to TSO. > There are other 3270 emulators for Windows but as far as I know they are > all proprietary and sell for money. > Yup, and that's why I already use x3270; which is actually a pretty nice emulator. Bringing this conversation back to the world of SIMH (sorta). From IBM manual GC23-0002-0, while doing an RMT generation for JES2, you can have the RMT generation process produce object decks for IBM 1130 and IBM System/3 systems that make them operate as BSC connected RJE stations. This seems like a pretty interesting application for SIMH. It would require the implementation of the BSCA device for the System/3, in a way that would compatibly operate with the Hercules 2703 BSC emulation, and similar creation of a sync modem device on the 1130 simulator. The required hardware for the remote terminal program is: IBM System/3 Model 10 with the following selectable options: * 1442 Card Read Punch * 5203 Printer * 5424 Multi-Function Card Unit * 5471 Printer-Keyboard * 5475 Data Entry Keyboard IBM 1130 System with the following selectable options: * 1132 Printer * 1403 Printer * 1442 Card Read Punch * 1442 Card Punch * 2501 Card Reader * Standard Printer-Keyboard Both simulators already support the hardware needed, except the bisynch adapters. Cheers, Christian -- Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove STCKON08DS0 Contact information available upon request. ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
