Re: [Simh] Reading directly from console in RT-11

[Rhialto]

On Sat 20 Feb 2016 at 14:43:12 -0700, Kevin Handy wrote:
> You also have "macro11" in simtools to assemble things. 

Note that that version is very buggy with extensive use-after-free
memory errors. I'd recommend my fixed up and improved version at
https://github.com/Rhialto/macro11 :-)

-Olaf.
-- 
___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert  -- The Doctor: No, 'eureka' is Greek for
\X/ rhialto/at/xs4all.nl-- 'this bath is too hot.'


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Re: [Simh] Interdata 8/32 at CHM

[Don Stalkowski]

Thanks Al.

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 01:04:42PM -0800, Al Kossow wrote:
> 10mb pertec
> 
> On 2/17/16 6:11 PM, Don Stalkowski wrote:
> >Does anyone know what the drive is at the top of the Interdata 8/32
> >at the CHM?
> >
> >
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Re: [Simh] Free USER SPACE DECNET LAT MOP

[Al Kossow]

On 2/19/16 4:33 PM, Timothe Litt wrote:
I'll try to look through the stuff that I sent to CHM if I get out 
there later this year.
The collection just moved, and is currently palletized and is 
inaccessable in a new building.
We are waiting on installation of compact shelving to house it. Last 
guess is late April for
installation. Also, it is no longer in tape racks, it is boxed and 
currently uncataloged so even

if you do come, it isn't browsable.

Sadly, the days of CHM's "Large Storage" shelving is long past, and the 
institution has moved
to catalog records and archivists pulling collections on demand from 
rows of archival boxes.


The good news is they are finally getting me a software archivist again, 
and the LCG collection

is pretty high on my list for processing.

Also, I'm pretty sure I mentioned that the RP disk packs were 
desaccessioned and given to LCM
several years ago. There was no way that we would have a real 10 running 
any time soon, so I
felt that getting them to someone, rather than sending them to recycling 
which was threatened
by the director of collections, was the appropriate thing to do. I hope 
Rich et. al. can get to them

some day.


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Re: [Simh] Interdata 8/32 at CHM

[Al Kossow]

10mb pertec

On 2/17/16 6:11 PM, Don Stalkowski wrote:

Does anyone know what the drive is at the top of the Interdata 8/32
at the CHM?



Thanks, Don

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Re: [Simh] Reading directly from console in RT-11

[Paul Koning]

> On Feb 20, 2016, at 12:25 PM, Will Senn  wrote:
> 
> Great answer and helpful. I'll give both approaches a shot. If I understand 
> my environment correctly, RT-11 is single user, single job (well, most of the 
> time anyway). So, it oughta be safe enough to try this without messing things 
> up beyond needing to restart if I have logic errors? That is, the file system 
> isn't involved or caching or anything that would cause inconsistency as a 
> result of an infinite loop or crash? Not that I would ever code such things 
> :)!

RT comes in several flavors, of which I know the SJ and FB 
(foreground/background) flavors, V2 specifically.  Both are unprotected 
operating systems, so you can play with I/O devices at will.

Also, in those there definitely is no caching in the file system.  For that 
matter, the file structure is simple enough that there really isn't anything to 
go "inconsistent".  A crash in mid-operation might cause a file not to be there 
if it was being written, but that's about it.  The only exception I can think 
of is the file system defrag operation, but then again that one may be written 
in a fault tolerant manner, I don't know.

paul


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Re: [Simh] Reading directly from console in RT-11

[Will Senn]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 20, 2016, at 11:00 AM, Paul Koning  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Feb 19, 2016, at 4:58 PM, Will Senn  wrote:
>> 
>> Given the following test program that I wrote (GETC.MAC):
>> 
>>  .title getc
>> 
>>   .mcall.exit
>> 
>> TKS = 177560
>> TKB = 177562
>> ;TPS = 177564
>> ;TPB = 177566
>> 
>> begin:
>>   incTKS;set the ASR read enable bit
>> getc:
>>   tstbTKS;is a character available?
>>   bplgetc;loop until there is
>> 
>>   movbTKB,R0;put the character into register 0
>> 
>>   .exit
>> 
>>   .end begin
>> 
>> I would expect the console to wait until I typed a single character and then 
>> for the program to exit. What is happening is that the program appears to 
>> accept any number of characters and only ends when I type CTRL-C twice.
>> 
>> Here are some questions that arise:
>> 
>> 1. Is it reasonable to expect to be able to read directly from the ASR 
>> Keyboard buffer while running RT-11 in SimH or does this somehow compete 
>> with the running OS? (I can print characters using the ASR Punch Buffer just 
>> fine)
> 
> No, that is not reasonable.  Not without extra work.  You're messing with a 
> device that has already been set up by the terminal driver.
> 
> When running in kernel mode, as you are in RT11, you can definitely get 
> around this, but it requires more work. Specifically, you'd have to disable 
> terminal interrupts so the appearance of a character doesn't wake up the 
> driver.  For best results, you would also have to restore the terminal CSRs 
> on exit so the terminal driver is given control again.
> 
> Alternatively, you could block out interrupts by raising the processor 
> priority, then lowering it back to 0 before exit.  That works because 
> interrupts are level sensitive in PDP11s (as they are in all sane interrupt 
> architectures), so the fetching of the received character will cancel the 
> interrupt request, which means that lowering the priority just before the 
> .exit will have the right result (no interrup to confuse the driver).
> 
>paul
> 

Great answer and helpful. I'll give both approaches a shot. If I understand my 
environment correctly, RT-11 is single user, single job (well, most of the time 
anyway). So, it oughta be safe enough to try this without messing things up 
beyond needing to restart if I have logic errors? That is, the file system 
isn't involved or caching or anything that would cause inconsistency as a 
result of an infinite loop or crash? Not that I would ever code such things :)!

Thanks,

Will
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Re: [Simh] Reading directly from console in RT-11

[Paul Koning]

> On Feb 19, 2016, at 4:58 PM, Will Senn  wrote:
> 
> Given the following test program that I wrote (GETC.MAC):
> 
>   .title getc
> 
>.mcall.exit
> 
> TKS = 177560
> TKB = 177562
> ;TPS = 177564
> ;TPB = 177566
> 
> begin:
>incTKS;set the ASR read enable bit
> getc:
>tstbTKS;is a character available?
>bplgetc;loop until there is
> 
>movbTKB,R0;put the character into register 0
> 
>.exit
> 
>.end begin
> 
> I would expect the console to wait until I typed a single character and then 
> for the program to exit. What is happening is that the program appears to 
> accept any number of characters and only ends when I type CTRL-C twice.
> 
> Here are some questions that arise:
> 
> 1. Is it reasonable to expect to be able to read directly from the ASR 
> Keyboard buffer while running RT-11 in SimH or does this somehow compete with 
> the running OS? (I can print characters using the ASR Punch Buffer just fine)

No, that is not reasonable.  Not without extra work.  You're messing with a 
device that has already been set up by the terminal driver.

When running in kernel mode, as you are in RT11, you can definitely get around 
this, but it requires more work. Specifically, you'd have to disable terminal 
interrupts so the appearance of a character doesn't wake up the driver.  For 
best results, you would also have to restore the terminal CSRs on exit so the 
terminal driver is given control again.

Alternatively, you could block out interrupts by raising the processor 
priority, then lowering it back to 0 before exit.  That works because 
interrupts are level sensitive in PDP11s (as they are in all sane interrupt 
architectures), so the fetching of the received character will cancel the 
interrupt request, which means that lowering the priority just before the .exit 
will have the right result (no interrup to confuse the driver).

paul

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[Simh] examine octal and ascii in SimH

[Will Senn]

In SimH:

It is possible to display bytes in ASCII form:
sim> e -c 1032-1034
1032:AB
1034:C<000>

It is also possible to display words in octal:
sim> e 1032-1034
1032:041101
1034:000103

Is it possible to display bytes in octal, or bytes in both ASCII and 
Octal at the same time?

1032 101 A
1033 102 B
1034 103 C
1035 000 NUL

or even just the octal bytes themselves?:
1032 101
1033 102
1034 103
1035 000

Thanks,

Will


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Re: [Simh] DECWRITE backup set

[Timothe Litt]

On 20-Feb-16 11:07, Gary Lee Phillips wrote:
> To complete the information for you, Timothe, I did get the VMSINSTAL
> to run successfully on two SimH VAX setups. There was a complaint
> issued about a missing license for the "lexicon" which suggested to me
> that perhaps the spelling checker won't work.
>
> Although DECWrite is installed, and appears on the menus in
> DECWindows, it does not run. I remembered that you (or someone else?)
Not me.
> said that a bug in the program means that the CMKRNL privilege is
> required to run it, and I did make sure I had that before attempting
> it. I also tried running it under the SYSTEM account, which should
> sidestep any issues with privilege. From the point of view of the
> DECWindows user, nothing happens when the program is launched.
>
> The error message logs, however, do indicate a clear problem. During
> initialization, the following error message appears:
>
> %DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image XDPS$DPSLIBSHR
>
> Without knowing what this image is, I am guessing that something else
> had to be installed first. I don't see any suggestion that another
> product was needed beyond DECWindows itself, though.
XDPS is X-windows Display Postscript.  Seems to be missing in VMS 7.3,
but was there in 7.2

See
http://www.digiater.nl/openvms/decus/vmslt01b/vu/get-decwrite-up-in-7_3-how.txt
for a solution.

Google is your friend.

> The connection and DECWindows itself do work as expected. I can run
> other built-in applications without difficulty. Perhaps someone on the
> list has more information about this problem?
>
> I'm still hoping to get hold of the Alpha version of this package to
> see if it will work there.
I'm not sure what I have for Alpha VMS CDs.  They're hard to access as
I'm packing my library.

> --Gary




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Re: [Simh] DECWRITE backup set

[Gary Lee Phillips]

To complete the information for you, Timothe, I did get the VMSINSTAL
to run successfully on two SimH VAX setups. There was a complaint
issued about a missing license for the "lexicon" which suggested to me
that perhaps the spelling checker won't work.

Although DECWrite is installed, and appears on the menus in
DECWindows, it does not run. I remembered that you (or someone else?)
said that a bug in the program means that the CMKRNL privilege is
required to run it, and I did make sure I had that before attempting
it. I also tried running it under the SYSTEM account, which should
sidestep any issues with privilege. From the point of view of the
DECWindows user, nothing happens when the program is launched.

The error message logs, however, do indicate a clear problem. During
initialization, the following error message appears:

%DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image XDPS$DPSLIBSHR

Without knowing what this image is, I am guessing that something else
had to be installed first. I don't see any suggestion that another
product was needed beyond DECWindows itself, though.

The connection and DECWindows itself do work as expected. I can run
other built-in applications without difficulty. Perhaps someone on the
list has more information about this problem?

I'm still hoping to get hold of the Alpha version of this package to
see if it will work there.

--Gary
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Re: [Simh] Fwd: EXT : Alpha under SIMH

[Broer van Smeden]

Hi,
We are using the Charon packages already for some years, running True64 and
VMS7.3. The Charon services are running on HP DL360/380 on W2018R2 (x64).
For some systems, the actual windows disks (which contain the container
disks for CHARON) are iSCSI of a netapp. Systems are running very stable.
If required, the windows connections can be limited to just the console
ports.
The newer versions of CHARON are running on W2012R2. So for production
environment, this is a very good alternative. From thew side of HP, you
require a special transfer license, which can be purchased via Stromasys.
The support is OK.
So if your AXP application must continue to run for some years, or need
some more CPU power/memory, (moving to CHARON is much cheaper than actually
upgrade an old AXP with extra CPU or memory), you should really consider to
change over to server consolidation.

Broer

2016-02-19 22:34 GMT+01:00 Mark Wickens :

>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From:* Mark Wickens 
> *Date:* 19 February 2016 at 23:32:29 EET
> *To:* Dave L 
> *Subject:* *Re: [Simh] EXT : Alpha under SIMH*
>
> I've had excellent support for FreeAXP from Artem when emulating my
> AlphaServer on a Windows host and I hope if they are not currently offering
> a personal use license that they will in the future as it is an excellent
> product.
>
> Please note that I'm not traditionally a Windows fanboy and indeed for
> about 20 years lived happily without it but I bought an hp ds360 server
> with a Windows 2012rc licence and although planning to install UNIX thought
> I'd give it a go. The most annoying part is having to reboot for security
> upgrades and I appreciate that would be enough to put a lot of folks off
> but it does open the world up a little and http://hecnet.eu is server by
> a FreeAXP instance.
>
> Regards, Mark
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> On 19 Feb 2016, at 22:17, Dave L  wrote:
>
>
> if you take a look at this site you can find the link to download
> personalAplha ;-)
>
> http://jonesrh.info/dcll/dcll_why_i_use.html#VMS_Hobbyist_solutions
>
>
> Also the Idleloop installer info if you'll need it - not recommended for
> non-hobyist configs tho.
>
>
> I've used both FreeAXP and Charon (personal & official) and they run VMS
> fine. Have recently loaded Tru64 5.1B on FreeAXP but not had much time to
> play with it. Running on an i7 Windows-10 laptop I didn't notice any
> performance loss and the emulator performed fine. Can only run one instance
> of FreeAXP at a time though so cannot set up a cluster or have VMS & Tru64
> both running simultaneously. Networking I can't comment yet as not bothered
> so far given the laptop isn't tethered to a network point, only using WiFi
> ATM.
>
>
> regards
>
> Dave
>
>
> On Fri, 19 Feb 2016 18:16:53 -, Hittner, David T (IS) <
> david.hitt...@ngc.com> wrote:
>
>
> Not correct. Migration Specialties offers FreeAXP, which is a reduced
> performance Alpha.
>
> I don't know if StromaSys still offers Personal Alpha or not.
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com
> ] On Behalf Of Zane Healy
>
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 1:05 PM
>
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
>
> Subject: Re: [Simh] EXT : Alpha under SIMH
>
>
> Am I correct that none of the Commercial solutions offer a “Hobbyist”
> emulator for the DEC Alpha anymore?
>
>
> Zane
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 19, 2016, at 9:42 AM, Hittner, David T (IS) 
> wrote:
>
>
> No. SIMH Alpha is just the CPU, no system (motherboard) and no
> peripherals. It is not in a runnable state.
>
>
> Alpha emulations are available commercially from multiple sources:
>
>   Migration Specialties
>
>   SRI (Charon)
>
>   AVTware
>
>   etc.
>
>
> Dave Hittner
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com
> ] On Behalf Of Robert Thomas
>
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 12:13 PM
>
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com
>
> Subject: EXT :[Simh] Alpha under SIMH
>
>
> We are on the verge of having to retire our AlphaStation XP1000.  We have
> experimented with some of the commercial emulators, but based on very
> positive experience with the VAX emulation under simh are wondering if the
> AXP EV5 emulation that is hinted at on the simh web site is available and
> functional?
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Robert F. Thomas
>
>
> 44 Industrial Way
>
> Norwood, MA USA 02062
>
> N  Office Phone - (781) 329-9200
>
> O mail to: r...@asthomas.com
>
>
>
>
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>
>