Re: [Simh] PDP-15/76

[J. David Bryan]

On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 6:01, Timothe Litt wrote:

> I didn't have much luck with tumble (some time ago); it tended to
> complain about the tiff input formats.

Differences in the TIFF generators, I suppose.  I've used tumble to produce 
500+ PDFs from scanned TIFFs (and JPEGs and PNGs) with no issues.


> I do have a more recent version in my archive; Don't recall where I
> found it

I sent it to you in August 2013.  ;-)

  -- Dave

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Re: [Simh] The lost disk of the PDP-15

[Bob Supnik]

Upstate Medical Center in Syracuse had a number of PDP-15s, including 
XVMs. Some are still be in the hands of a private collector. However, 
that person is unwilling to share materials, particularly software kits, 
from his collection.


If the RP disks follow normal SimH practice, then they are simulated as 
data files, without metadata. A PDP-10 RP would have blocks of 128 x 
36bit words, each word right justified in a 64b container; a PDP-15 RP 
would have blocks of 256 x 18bit words, each right justified in a 32b 
container.  For interchange, the two simulators would have to adapt a 
common container size. Alternately, the disk could be buffered in 
memory, and the format adjusted at attach (as is done with DECtapes).


/Bob

On 5/5/2016 6:01 AM, simh-requ...@trailing-edge.com wrote:
Message: 5 Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 20:10:59 -0400 From: Richard 
Cornwell  To: simh@trailing-edge.com Subject: 
Re: [Simh] The lost disk of the PDP-15 Message-ID: 
<20160315201059.25711d9a@hobbit> Content-Type: text/plain; 
charset=US-ASCII I suspect this might also be to the limited number of 
XVM15 systems that were actually sold. I used one at Syracuse 
University in the early 80's. We had the PDP11 and it talked to the 
RK05 disk drive. I was told that there was only about 20 XVM systems 
sold. We did not have any RP drives on the system. My KA10 simulator 
supports RP01/RP02/RP03 disks, do you think there might be a need to 
exchange disks between a PDP10 and a PDP15? If so we should probably 
use a common format. When I add RP06 support for the KI10 version I 
will make sure it is compatible with the KS10 sim so that packs can be 
interchanged. We probably could add support for the RP03 to RSX, DOS 
and Adss, since we have source. Rich

>


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Re: [Simh] PDP-15/76

[Timothe Litt]

On 05-May-16 13:27, Al Kossow wrote:
>
> On 5/5/16 3:01 AM, Timothe Litt wrote:
>
>> I didn't have much luck with tumble (some time ago); it tended to
>> complain about the tiff input formats.
>>
> There was a long thread about this on cctlk. the problem is the program
> mixes the use of read() and stdio assuming the buffer pointers stay in sync.
> This works on Linux and Windows, but not on BSDs (incl OS X)
> It has also been hacked on by three (four including me) other people now, and 
> Eric hasn't picked
> up the changes.
>
>
Whether that was my issue is lost in the depths of time - I use LInux
and it didn't work reliably for me.  Certainly mixing file descriptors
and streams is dangerous.  To the extent that it "works" beyond
switching open() to stream with fdopen, it's an extension to the C
standards.  (It's even uglier when a file is open for read & write.) 
The main issues are discussed at
http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/xsh_chap02_05.html#tag_02_05_01
and
http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/Stream_002fDescriptor-Precautions.html#Stream_002fDescriptor-Precautions

Eric's website hasn't been updated since 2003, and the links for its svn
repo are dead.  The last activity on the mailing list was in DEC 2006.

If it's being maintained, it would be a good idea to setup a new
repo/distribution point and merge the improved versions.  It doesn't
seem like a good idea to recommend the old website when it seems to have
gone stale...

FWIW, ImageMagick is a more comprehensive tool, and is actively
maintained. 




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Re: [Simh] PDP-15/76

[Al Kossow]

On 5/5/16 3:01 AM, Timothe Litt wrote:

> I didn't have much luck with tumble (some time ago); it tended to
> complain about the tiff input formats.
>

There was a long thread about this on cctlk. the problem is the program
mixes the use of read() and stdio assuming the buffer pointers stay in sync.
This works on Linux and Windows, but not on BSDs (incl OS X)
It has also been hacked on by three (four including me) other people now, and 
Eric hasn't picked
up the changes.


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Re: [Simh] PDP-15/76

[Al Kossow]

On 5/4/16 8:27 AM, Mattis Lind wrote:
> Here is the last scanned document. This time I scanned it as TIFF instead of 
> PDF. It appeared to have produced a smaller
> file. The downside is that there were a lot of manual work to combine the 
> individual TIFF pages the scanner software
> produced.
>

use tumble

tumble.brouhaha.com


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[Simh] Thoughts on combining individual scanned pages

[Armistead, Jason .]

One tool that I have found useful in the past is tiffcp, which is part of the 
tools in the libTIFF distribution.

http://www.remotesensing.org/libtiff/tools.html

tiffcp makes it easy to combine multiple TIFF images into a single TIFF file.

tiff2pdf makes it easy to convert that multi-page TIFF fine into PDF.

Hope this helps when archiving documentation from these old systems


Jason



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Re: [Simh] PDP-15/76

[Alexander Schreiber]

On Thu, May 05, 2016 at 07:41:24AM -0400, Timothe Litt wrote:
> On 05-May-16 07:18, Mattis Lind wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > I didn't have much luck with tumble (some time ago); it tended to
> > complain about the tiff input formats.
> > That version/website hasn't been updated since 2003.
> > I do have a more recent version in my archive; Don't recall where I
> > found it, but it does somewhat better.  I posted it at
> > 
> > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2g2SW-v7RFZWW1BS1E4eVk3cVU/view?usp=sharing
> > for now, but it needs a permanent home...
> >
> > ImageMagick (most distributions have it, or see
> > http://www.imagemagick.org/) is my go-to tool for batch image
> > conversion/basic manipulations - e.g. rotate, resize, flip, crop,
> > dither, resample, etc.  It runs on linux, windows, OSX and iOS. 
> > You can
> > also adjust the colormap size to shrink the files, depending on
> > the input.
> >
> >convert *.tiff manual.pdf
> >
> >
> >
> > It was ImageMagick and the convert tool I ended up using for the last
> > file. But firstly I have to scan the manual two times since it is
> > double sided (there is no duplexer and it there were it would have
> > been extremely slow I presume). The scanner programs generates file
> > name numbering that I cannot control when scanning multiple pages. So
> > the trickiness is to splice everything together at the end. Then
> > secondly the scanner jammed at certain times interrupting the number
> > sequence. I ended up doing it manually. Maybe there is a way to do it
> > more automatically. I will find out next time I scan a document.
> >  
> >
> >
> > There are a bunch of tools for manipulating PDFs; some free, some not.
> > Here are a couple.
> > http://www.pdfsam.org/download-pdfsam-basic/
> > https://www.pdflabs.com/tools/pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/
> > http://pdfchain.sourceforge.net/
> > https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/PdfMod
> >
> >
> Others are probably more expert than I am, but here are a few techniques
> that I've learned:
> 
> Not much one can do about the scanner issues.   I usually don't even use
> the automatic feeder - a jam on an irreplaceable document can be a
> disaster.  Duplexers are even more dangerous since they have to run the
> paper around more sharp curves.
> 
> But tools like pdfmod allow you to rearrange pages in the PDF with drag
> and drop.
> So you can can put the pages in order fairly quickly.
> 
> Another trick is to sort the files by create time (e.g. on unix: convert
> `ls -1t *.tiff` doc.pdf). This will put them into the pdf in the same
> order that you scanned them.  If you have a few pages out of order due
> to rescans or jams, they can be fixed with pdfmod/pdftk.
> 
> For the duplexing issue:
> 
> pdfsam mix will merge odd and even pages.  So you can scan the odd pages
> in one directory & create a PDF with them, and the even pages in a
> second directory.  Then use pdfsam to interleave them into the final
> output file.
> 
> I find that this is quicker than turning pages over, even if I'm not
> using the automatic feeder.
> 
> The PDF tools also will rotate pages - which helps with landscape
> fold-out pages.  And the times that I accidentally scan a page
> upside-down :-)
> 
> Thanks for scanning your archives.
> 

I eventually got sick & tired of keeping piles of paper (bills, receipts,
and other stuff) around and decided to just scan it, shred most of it and
only keep a few select key documents on paper around. 

To this end, I've built a little tool chain:
 - scanpage: just scans via attached USB scanner at 600 dpi A4 in greyscale
   to raw unpacked tiff, I usually name them 1.tiff, 2.tiff, 3.tiff ...
 - scan2page: does the heavy lifting
   - compress original raw scans as TIFF with compression mode ZIP for
 archival - just in case I ever need the original raw scans again
   - normalize & despeckle the scans
   - downconvert to monochrome
   - deskew the scans
   - compress the scans with TIFF G4 (most efficient compression for
 monochrome I've found)
   - create two different display/archival formats from the scan
 - djvu (very compact)
 - pdf (very portable)
   - finally prompt for the name of the three output files (tar, djvu, pdf)
 - git: all of my archival scans are kept in a git repository, giving me:
   - revision control (e.g. I know when a document was scanned or the scan
 redone)
   - trivial replication for redundancy (just git clone & git pull)
   - integrity checking, e.g. git fsck will find bit flips

The whole tool chain is written for Linux (with Debian in mind, but will
run fine elsewhere, and should run on *BSD as well as long as the tools
are provided). The scan2page script does kit completeness checking before
touching the scans, e.g. can it find all the external tools it will invoke
later.

That, together with a (for me) reasonable directory structure, makes it
very easy for me to find old documents again - 

Re: [Simh] PDP-15/76

[Timothe Litt]

On 05-May-16 07:18, Mattis Lind wrote:
>
>
>
> I didn't have much luck with tumble (some time ago); it tended to
> complain about the tiff input formats.
> That version/website hasn't been updated since 2003.
> I do have a more recent version in my archive; Don't recall where I
> found it, but it does somewhat better.  I posted it at
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2g2SW-v7RFZWW1BS1E4eVk3cVU/view?usp=sharing
> for now, but it needs a permanent home...
>
> ImageMagick (most distributions have it, or see
> http://www.imagemagick.org/) is my go-to tool for batch image
> conversion/basic manipulations - e.g. rotate, resize, flip, crop,
> dither, resample, etc.  It runs on linux, windows, OSX and iOS. 
> You can
> also adjust the colormap size to shrink the files, depending on
> the input.
>
>convert *.tiff manual.pdf
>
>
>
> It was ImageMagick and the convert tool I ended up using for the last
> file. But firstly I have to scan the manual two times since it is
> double sided (there is no duplexer and it there were it would have
> been extremely slow I presume). The scanner programs generates file
> name numbering that I cannot control when scanning multiple pages. So
> the trickiness is to splice everything together at the end. Then
> secondly the scanner jammed at certain times interrupting the number
> sequence. I ended up doing it manually. Maybe there is a way to do it
> more automatically. I will find out next time I scan a document.
>  
>
>
> There are a bunch of tools for manipulating PDFs; some free, some not.
> Here are a couple.
> http://www.pdfsam.org/download-pdfsam-basic/
> https://www.pdflabs.com/tools/pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/
> http://pdfchain.sourceforge.net/
> https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/PdfMod
>
>
Others are probably more expert than I am, but here are a few techniques
that I've learned:

Not much one can do about the scanner issues.   I usually don't even use
the automatic feeder - a jam on an irreplaceable document can be a
disaster.  Duplexers are even more dangerous since they have to run the
paper around more sharp curves.

But tools like pdfmod allow you to rearrange pages in the PDF with drag
and drop.
So you can can put the pages in order fairly quickly.

Another trick is to sort the files by create time (e.g. on unix: convert
`ls -1t *.tiff` doc.pdf). This will put them into the pdf in the same
order that you scanned them.  If you have a few pages out of order due
to rescans or jams, they can be fixed with pdfmod/pdftk.

For the duplexing issue:

pdfsam mix will merge odd and even pages.  So you can scan the odd pages
in one directory & create a PDF with them, and the even pages in a
second directory.  Then use pdfsam to interleave them into the final
output file.

I find that this is quicker than turning pages over, even if I'm not
using the automatic feeder.

The PDF tools also will rotate pages - which helps with landscape
fold-out pages.  And the times that I accidentally scan a page
upside-down :-)

Thanks for scanning your archives.



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Re: [Simh] PDP-15/76

[Timothe Litt]

On 04-May-16 23:19, J. David Bryan wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 at 17:27, Mattis Lind wrote:
>
>> This time I scanned it as TIFF instead of PDF. It appeared to have
>> produced a smaller file. The downside is that there were a lot of manual
>> work to combine the individual TIFF pages the scanner software
>> produced.
> I recommed the "tumble" utility here:
>
>   http://tumble.brouhaha.com/
>
> It will convert a list of TIFFs to a PDF with just:
>
>   tumble *.tiff -o manual.pdf
I didn't have much luck with tumble (some time ago); it tended to
complain about the tiff input formats.
That version/website hasn't been updated since 2003.
I do have a more recent version in my archive; Don't recall where I
found it, but it does somewhat better.  I posted it at
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2g2SW-v7RFZWW1BS1E4eVk3cVU/view?usp=sharing
for now, but it needs a permanent home...

ImageMagick (most distributions have it, or see
http://www.imagemagick.org/) is my go-to tool for batch image
conversion/basic manipulations - e.g. rotate, resize, flip, crop,
dither, resample, etc.  It runs on linux, windows, OSX and iOS.  You can
also adjust the colormap size to shrink the files, depending on the input.

   convert *.tiff manual.pdf

There are a bunch of tools for manipulating PDFs; some free, some not.
Here are a couple.
http://www.pdfsam.org/download-pdfsam-basic/
https://www.pdflabs.com/tools/pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/
http://pdfchain.sourceforge.net/
https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/PdfMod




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