Re: [Simh] How to keep RSTS in sync w/ "wall time"?
On 2016-09-09 23:07, Dario Niedermann wrote: Il 09/09/2016 alle 18:02, Dario Niedermann ha scritto: it lags behind. Same as when I tried enabling CPU idling. I must correct myself: When I enable CPU idling and clock frequency is set to 60Hz, RSTS actually keeps correct time (provided I never suspend emulation to get to SimH's prompt). It turns out that 'set throttle' was canceling the idling (as documented). So the time drift was because of a 50/60 Hz mixum. Great. That problem solved. Still, the problem is: With idling and no throttling is my emulated PDP11/70's speed realistic - which is what I'm looking for - or is it as fast as my hardware can manage? You can always telnet to magica.update.uu.se, port 10023, and you have a real PDP-11/70 to compare with, although running RSX-11M-PLUS, and not RSTS/E... Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] How to keep RSTS in sync w/ "wall time"?
Hi Dario, On Friday, September 9, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Dario Niedermann wrote: > Il 09/09/2016 alle 18:02, Dario Niedermann ha scritto: > > > it lags behind. Same as when I tried enabling CPU idling. > > I must correct myself: When I enable CPU idling and clock frequency is > set to 60Hz, RSTS actually keeps correct time (provided I never suspend > emulation to get to SimH's prompt). It turns out that 'set throttle' was > canceling the idling (as documented). > > Still, the problem is: With idling and no throttling is my emulated > PDP11/70's speed realistic - which is what I'm looking for - or is it > as fast as my hardware can manage? With idling enabled (or with neither idling nor throttling enabled), the simulated PDP11 CPU is running as fast as your host hardware can manage, whether this is as faster or slower than an original PDP 11/70 will depend on the speed of the host hardware. With throttling, the logic will attempt to enforce an upper limit on how fast it will actually execute instructions. The fact that when you enable throttling it seems to interfere with the delivery rate of simulated clock ticks is a bug. Please create an issue at https://github.com/simh/issues to report and track efforts to resolve this. Thanks. - Mark ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] How to keep RSTS in sync w/ "wall time"?
Il 09/09/2016 alle 18:02, Dario Niedermann ha scritto: > it lags behind. Same as when I tried enabling CPU idling. I must correct myself: When I enable CPU idling and clock frequency is set to 60Hz, RSTS actually keeps correct time (provided I never suspend emulation to get to SimH's prompt). It turns out that 'set throttle' was canceling the idling (as documented). Still, the problem is: With idling and no throttling is my emulated PDP11/70's speed realistic - which is what I'm looking for - or is it as fast as my hardware can manage? Thanks, DN ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] How to keep RSTS in sync w/ "wall time"?
Good point, but at least in my case that's definitely not the issue. I just tried again, first with the DISPLY tool (like Unix "top") running, updating every 5 seconds. The update interval is clearly too long and it seems to grow. I then just ran a simple test doing 5 second "sleep" operations. One took about 7 seconds, the next over 10, the third never finished. When I stopped the simulation, I noticed I was in a SOB instruction, but "step" would simply show that instruction again, and when I "continue" with CPU history enabled, history shows absolutely nothing. I don't have a clue how that can happen, but it certainly suggests that SIMH is doing something wrong when throttling is enabled. paul > On Sep 9, 2016, at 12:56 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > This might be a stupid suggestion, but make sure the system isn't generated > for 60hz and the line frequency set to 50hz. > > Johnny ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] How to keep RSTS in sync w/ "wall time"?
This might be a stupid suggestion, but make sure the system isn't generated for 60hz and the line frequency set to 50hz. Johnny Paul Koning skrev: (9 september 2016 18:47:42 CEST) > >> On Sep 9, 2016, at 12:02 PM, Dario Niedermann >wrote: >> >> Hello! >> >> I'm on Linux/AMD64, using SimH 4.0-0b to emulate a PDP11/70. I >disabled >> CPU idling, and set throttling to 1360K. Based on info I found >> don't remember where, this should probably give me a realistic 11/70 >> speed (if not, let me know). >> >> The problem I'm having is that RSTS' (V04B-17) idea of a minute is >quite >> a long one: its watch is very slow and it lags behind. Same as when I >> tried enabling CPU idling. >> >> So, basically, I'm looking for tips on how to get a realistic 11/70 >> experience (speed-wise) while keeping RSTS in sync with my hardware >> clock. > >I don't have a V4 system handy, but when I set throttling as you >describe, my V10 system definitely does not correctly track time. > >I don't know if wall clock time tracking is supposed to work when >throttling is set. > >On the other hand, when I don't throttle and set idling enabled, the >system tracks time correctly. I can't think of a reason why V4 would >work differently. You might post your config settings. > > paul > > >___ >Simh mailing list >Simh@trailing-edge.com >http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] How to keep RSTS in sync w/ "wall time"?
> On Sep 9, 2016, at 12:02 PM, Dario Niedermann wrote: > > Hello! > > I'm on Linux/AMD64, using SimH 4.0-0b to emulate a PDP11/70. I disabled > CPU idling, and set throttling to 1360K. Based on info I found > don't remember where, this should probably give me a realistic 11/70 > speed (if not, let me know). > > The problem I'm having is that RSTS' (V04B-17) idea of a minute is quite > a long one: its watch is very slow and it lags behind. Same as when I > tried enabling CPU idling. > > So, basically, I'm looking for tips on how to get a realistic 11/70 > experience (speed-wise) while keeping RSTS in sync with my hardware > clock. I don't have a V4 system handy, but when I set throttling as you describe, my V10 system definitely does not correctly track time. I don't know if wall clock time tracking is supposed to work when throttling is set. On the other hand, when I don't throttle and set idling enabled, the system tracks time correctly. I can't think of a reason why V4 would work differently. You might post your config settings. paul ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] (no subject)
On Friday, September 9, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Gene Irwin wrote: > Maybe not. T> he a 27 dollar pine64. > I just got mine and so far simh runs great on it. > I wish I knew how to benchmark simh performance so I could > compare it to my desktop and my bpi. A basic measurement of instruction execution rate can be computed by looking at some of the output from the SHOW CLOCK commands at the sim> prompt. Multiply the Hz indicated in the "Running at:" line by the "Current Insts Per Tick:" line and this will give you instructions per second... - Mark ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] (no subject)
On Friday, September 9, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Tim Wilkinson wrote: > I too purchased it. To be disappointed. To me trying to run VAX VMS > without network support was a waste of time. > > I purchased as I had no experience of building Android apps. Linux > no problem. And have simh in a few distributions. But getting > ssh2 on ipv6 performing on a pi is asking a bit much of that > environment. > > So probably expecting more of my phone than the manufacturer > ever envisaged A few years back, I added Android build support to the simh makefile in the github master branch. I haven't tried building for Android since shortly after that time. I'd appreciate any feedback from anyone who tries now. Meanwhile, the VAX without networking support was indeed a problem at that time. Since that time I've added NAT networking, to the simulated Ethernet layer and this actually should provide the basics to have some useful networking. - Mark ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] (no subject)
Maybe not. The a 27 dollar pine64. I just got mine and so far simh runs great on it. I wish I knew how to benchmark simh performance so I could compare it to my desktop and my bpi. I can ssh into it from my phone but haven't got a Vax up yet. Although I did just receive my license! On Fri, Sep 9, 2016, 9:09 AM Tim Wilkinson wrote: > I too purchased it. To be disappointed. To me trying to run VAX VMS > without network support was a waste of time. > > I purchased as I had no experience of building Android apps. Linux no > problem. And have simh in a few distributions. But getting ssh2 on ipv6 > performing on a pi is asking a bit much of that environment. > > So probably expecting more of my phone than the manufacturer ever envisaged > ___ > Simh mailing list > Simh@trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] (no subject)
I too purchased it. To be disappointed. To me trying to run VAX VMS without network support was a waste of time. I purchased as I had no experience of building Android apps. Linux no problem. And have simh in a few distributions. But getting ssh2 on ipv6 performing on a pi is asking a bit much of that environment. So probably expecting more of my phone than the manufacturer ever envisaged ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] (no subject)
Also my apologies for the blank subject line. Yeah, haven't made it to vms yet but I have used pdp 8 and 11 systems in my younger years. I wish the alpha micro s100 based system was simulated too. I used tons of z80 based systems too. I am just not savvy enough to make a framework or build a sim. Wish I were. Did find a swtpc bug and a fix though. Wish I could contribute more. On Fri, Sep 9, 2016, 8:54 AM Gene Irwin wrote: > I have considered it a few times, but then the pay someone for someone > else's work idea gets to me and I decide to investigate doing my own > android compile. But that's as far as I get before another project gets my > attention. > > Glad I didn't buy it now. > > And thank you for that. > > I feel better about it. > > On Fri, Sep 9, 2016, 8:44 AM Ray Jewhurst wrote: > >> I actually purchased it a few years ago and it is not compatible with >> recent versions of Android. >> >> On Sep 9, 2016 11:40 AM, "Gene Irwin" wrote: >> >>> Another potentially pot-stirriing question: >>> >>> What does the simh community think about the copy of simh in the Google >>> play store that is a pay for app and that it requires another pay for AP to >>> be useful (a terminal made by the same author)? >>> >>> ___ >>> Simh mailing list >>> Simh@trailing-edge.com >>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh >>> >> ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] How to keep RSTS in sync w/ "wall time"?
Hello! I'm on Linux/AMD64, using SimH 4.0-0b to emulate a PDP11/70. I disabled CPU idling, and set throttling to 1360K. Based on info I found don't remember where, this should probably give me a realistic 11/70 speed (if not, let me know). The problem I'm having is that RSTS' (V04B-17) idea of a minute is quite a long one: its watch is very slow and it lags behind. Same as when I tried enabling CPU idling. So, basically, I'm looking for tips on how to get a realistic 11/70 experience (speed-wise) while keeping RSTS in sync with my hardware clock. Thanks in advance, DN ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] (no subject)
On Fri, 9 Sep 2016 11:50:18 -0400 Paul Koning wrote: > > On Sep 9, 2016, at 11:39 AM, Gene Irwin > > wrote: > > > > Another potentially pot-stirriing question: > > > > What does the simh community think about the copy of simh in the > > Google play store that is a pay for app and that it requires > > another pay for AP to be useful (a terminal made by the same > > author)? > > That's perfectly legitimate given the BSD-style license used by > SIMH. This is precisely the sort of thing that people choose to > allow when they pick that kind of license (and choose to make more > difficult though not impossible when they choose GPL instead). > > Note that nothing prevents you or anyone else from releasing your own > copy of SIMH for Android, either as a free app or otherwise. > > Some people feel that open source projects should not be distributed > for money. If you feel that way, there are licenses that impose such > restrictions (though those typically are *not* considered valid open > source licenses precisely because of that restriction). But in the > projects I'm familiar with, not only is commercial distribution > considered valid, it is often encouraged as a way to bring more > motivated contributors to the project. Indeed. I do wish the damn thing worked, though. I rather liked being able to fire up VMS on my phone. ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] (no subject)
I have considered it a few times, but then the pay someone for someone else's work idea gets to me and I decide to investigate doing my own android compile. But that's as far as I get before another project gets my attention. Glad I didn't buy it now. And thank you for that. I feel better about it. On Fri, Sep 9, 2016, 8:44 AM Ray Jewhurst wrote: > I actually purchased it a few years ago and it is not compatible with > recent versions of Android. > > On Sep 9, 2016 11:40 AM, "Gene Irwin" wrote: > >> Another potentially pot-stirriing question: >> >> What does the simh community think about the copy of simh in the Google >> play store that is a pay for app and that it requires another pay for AP to >> be useful (a terminal made by the same author)? >> >> ___ >> Simh mailing list >> Simh@trailing-edge.com >> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh >> > ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] (no subject)
> On Sep 9, 2016, at 11:39 AM, Gene Irwin wrote: > > Another potentially pot-stirriing question: > > What does the simh community think about the copy of simh in the Google play > store that is a pay for app and that it requires another pay for AP to be > useful (a terminal made by the same author)? That's perfectly legitimate given the BSD-style license used by SIMH. This is precisely the sort of thing that people choose to allow when they pick that kind of license (and choose to make more difficult though not impossible when they choose GPL instead). Note that nothing prevents you or anyone else from releasing your own copy of SIMH for Android, either as a free app or otherwise. Some people feel that open source projects should not be distributed for money. If you feel that way, there are licenses that impose such restrictions (though those typically are *not* considered valid open source licenses precisely because of that restriction). But in the projects I'm familiar with, not only is commercial distribution considered valid, it is often encouraged as a way to bring more motivated contributors to the project. paul ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] (no subject)
I actually purchased it a few years ago and it is not compatible with recent versions of Android. On Sep 9, 2016 11:40 AM, "Gene Irwin" wrote: > Another potentially pot-stirriing question: > > What does the simh community think about the copy of simh in the Google > play store that is a pay for app and that it requires another pay for AP to > be useful (a terminal made by the same author)? > > ___ > Simh mailing list > Simh@trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] (no subject)
Another potentially pot-stirriing question: What does the simh community think about the copy of simh in the Google play store that is a pay for app and that it requires another pay for AP to be useful (a terminal made by the same author)? ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] Announcing TCP/IP for RSX-11M-PLUS
Time for a new release announcement of TCP/IP for RSX-11M-PLUS. This is a release that mainly address a couple of potential bugs that have been identified and fixed in the TCP layer. I strongly encourage people to upgrade to the latest version to get these fixes, since they can otherwise cause system crashes. Things that have been done since the last release: TCP: - Several bugfixes which could cause kernel memory corruption under some circumstances. Mostly a problem with slow machines and high volumes of network traffic. DHCP: - Changed DHCP to not print anything in case a plain renewal of the current IP address is done. HTTP: - Bugfix in the HTTP daemon, which could report incorrect times for last modify for files under some circumstances. TELNETD: - Changed code to to explicit push after I/O requests are complete, which improves performance. As usual, the distribution is available from: ftp://mim.update.uu.se/bqtcp.dsk ftp://mim.update.uu.se/bqtcp.tap ftp://ftp.update.uu.se/pub/pdp11/rsx/tcpip/tcpip.dsk The documentation is also available through ftp on Mim, or also at http://mim.update.uu.se/tcpipdoc As Mim is behind a firewall, which at the moment is blocking incoming ftp and telnet (we are working on getting that removed again), an alternative is to connect to Mim as Mim.Update.UU.SE:10021 (for ftp) and Mim.Update.UU.SE:10023 (for telnet). (Guess why the ability to listen to multiple ports for telnet, as well as being able to give a port argument to ftp came about... ;-) ) Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
