Re: [Simh] DECserver (terminal server) emulation?

[Sergey Oboguev]

>> The MOP server that exists for Unix systems ... only supports booting.


> What else do you need?  MOP doesn't do much more than that

Academically speaking, MOP also provides remote control, counters, memory dump, 
loopback testing.Whether any of this is "needed" is a matter of taste of course 
(just like virtually all retro-computing is).
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Re: [Simh] DECserver (terminal server) emulation?

[Paul Koning]

> On Apr 12, 2017, at 2:22 AM, Johnny Billquist  wrote:
> 
> The DS500 is a PDP-11, true. But it's also the model that don't have any 
> local storage, and thus uses MOP in way more ways than any other DS, which 
> might be a problem unless you have some machine with a proper MOP 
> implementation.
> The MOP server that exists for Unix systems will not do. It only supports 
> booting.

What else do you need?  MOP doesn't do much more than that.  Config data 
download?

In any case, MOP is a trivial protocol, fixing omissions in an existing MOP 
implementation is pretty easy.

Hm.  mop.py?  That would be nicely portable and easy to create...

paul


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Re: [Simh] "Raw" disk access

[Paul Koning]

> On Apr 12, 2017, at 5:03 PM, Alexander Schreiber  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 02:39:58PM -0400, Paul Koning wrote:
> 
>> As I recall, on VMS a disk is a file; a file spec consisting only of a device
>> name accesses that device.  So unlike some other operating systems where
>> special syscalls are needed for raw disk access, on VMS I would expect it to
>> be just a matter of accessing DUA1: or whatever.
> 
> Well, that is pretty much how it works under Linux, everything is a file
> (the old Unix principle).
> There isn't really a difference between accessing a file in the filesystem
> or accessing a raw block device. Windows appears to have similiar way where
> you can access raw block devices via the file API (but that is just from
> a quick search).

Yes, Linux is one of the friendly cases.  Other Unices may be trickier because 
you have to be aware of raw vs. file system block devices.  And then there is 
DOS, where you have to do BIOS calls to get raw disk I/O.

paul

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Re: [Simh] DECserver (terminal server) emulation?

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2017-04-12 19:21, Gary Lee Phillips wrote:

Surely a SimH PDP or VAX on another host (or even the same one) could
provide a well-featured MOP server?


Yes. It should...

Johnny



--Gary


The DS500 is a PDP-11, true. But it's also the model that don't have any
local storage, and thus uses MOP in way more ways than any other DS,
which might be a problem unless you have some machine with a proper MOP
implementation.
The MOP server that exists for Unix systems will not do. It only
supports booting.

   Johnny




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--
Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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Re: [Simh] DECserver (terminal server) emulation?

[Mark Pizzolato]

A simh VMS host will work just fine for any DECserver MOP activity.

- Mark

On Apr 12, 2017 3:40 PM, Kevin Handy  wrote:
A simh VMS system should work like the real thing. Just cnfigure it as you 
would for a real decserver, and it should work just fine. I think I did this 
for a Decserver-200 once so I could test to see if the 200 worked.

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Cory Smelosky 
mailto:b...@gewt.net>> wrote:
Does anyone have DECserver firmware source listings I wonder?

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Re: [Simh] DECserver (terminal server) emulation?

[Kevin Handy]

A simh VMS system should work like the real thing. Just cnfigure it as you
would for a real decserver, and it should work just fine. I think I did
this for a Decserver-200 once so I could test to see if the 200 worked.

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Cory Smelosky  wrote:

> Does anyone have DECserver firmware source listings I wonder?
>
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Re: [Simh] DECserver (terminal server) emulation?

[Cory Smelosky]

Does anyone have DECserver firmware source listings I wonder?
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Re: [Simh] "Raw" disk access

[Alexander Schreiber]

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 02:39:58PM -0400, Paul Koning wrote:

> As I recall, on VMS a disk is a file; a file spec consisting only of a device
> name accesses that device.  So unlike some other operating systems where
> special syscalls are needed for raw disk access, on VMS I would expect it to
> be just a matter of accessing DUA1: or whatever.

Well, that is pretty much how it works under Linux, everything is a file
(the old Unix principle).
There isn't really a difference between accessing a file in the filesystem
or accessing a raw block device. Windows appears to have similiar way where
you can access raw block devices via the file API (but that is just from
a quick search).

> 
> I haven't done this in ages, but this is what I recall from when the question
> came up in the context of my FLX program (RSTS file I/O).

Kind regards,
   Alex.
-- 
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
 looks like work."  -- Thomas A. Edison
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Re: [Simh] panda dist

[Mark Abene]

I've been running TOPS-20 on KLH10 for years, and I get the same error.
I had e-mailed MRC about it years ago, and he said it was harmless, so I
just ignore it.
Never looked into the root cause, personally.

-Mark


On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 12:31 AM, Kevin Handy  wrote:

> Don't know theproperplace to ask ths, so thought I'd ask here.
>
> Does this indicate aproblem with panda-dist, klh10, ornormal behaviour?
> I'm asking about the "ILLEGAL INSTRUCTION" message. Seems to not have
> caused any problems, but...
>
>
> @log operator
> @enable
> $terminal vt100
> $basic
>
> READY
> 10 PRINT "HELLO"
> 20 END
> LIST
>
> NONAME.B20
> Wednesday, April 5, 2017 00:17:22
>
> 00010 PRINT "HELLO"
> 00020 END
>
> READY
> RUN
>
> NONAME.B20
> Wednesday, April 5, 2017 00:17:29
>
> HELLO
>
>
> Compile time: 0.004 secs
> Run time: 0.004 secs Elapsed time: 0:00:00
>
> READY
> SAVE TEST.BAS
>
> READY
> OLD TEST.BAS
>
> ? ILLEGAL INSTRUCTION EXECUTED
> ? INTERNAL ERROR AT PC 15636
> ? Proceed at your own risk...
>
> READY
>
>
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Re: [Simh] "Raw" disk access

[Paul Koning]

As I recall, on VMS a disk is a file; a file spec consisting only of a device 
name accesses that device.  So unlike some other operating systems where 
special syscalls are needed for raw disk access, on VMS I would expect it to be 
just a matter of accessing DUA1: or whatever.

I haven't done this in ages, but this is what I recall from when the question 
came up in the context of my FLX program (RSTS file I/O).

paul

> On Apr 11, 2017, at 9:52 PM, Alan Frisbie  wrote:
> 
> I see in the SIMH v4.0 User's Guide that Windows and Linux hosts
> can use raw (real, physical) disk drives.   Is there any chance
> that that capability will show up for VMS hosts anytime soon?
> 
> It would make it a lot easier to move entire disk file structures
> back and forth between my emulated (PDP-11) system and the host
> (Alpha) system.
> 
> Thanks,
> Alan Frisbie
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Re: [Simh] DECserver (terminal server) emulation?

[Gary Lee Phillips]

Surely a SimH PDP or VAX on another host (or even the same one) could
provide a well-featured MOP server?

--Gary

>The DS500 is a PDP-11, true. But it's also the model that don't have any
>local storage, and thus uses MOP in way more ways than any other DS,
>which might be a problem unless you have some machine with a proper MOP
>implementation.
>The MOP server that exists for Unix systems will not do. It only
>supports booting.
>
>Johnny
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