Re: [Simh] anyone know how to convert/translate turbo pascal to vax pascal?

[Jean-Claude Parel]

Hello, Dan

I have a good knowledge on OpenVMS Pascal programming. 
Can you provide us with an example of source code that generates writeln 
errors ?

Cordialement/Regards



Jean-Claude Parel
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OpenVMS Architect
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458601
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From:   Dan Gahlinger 
To: "simh@trailing-edge.com" 
Date:   08/02/2018 00:23
Subject:[Simh] anyone know how to convert/translate turbo pascal 
to vax  pascal?
Sent by:"Simh" 



since I did all that work recreating "castle" from the vax to the pc
using turbo pascal (then free pascal)
I'd like to "port" it back to the vax,
but the vms 7.3 pascal compiler doesn't recognize "writeln"
and I suspect things like types and records and case statements wont work 
either.

anyone have any ideas?

Dan.___
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Re: [Simh] anyone know how to convert/translate turbo pascal to vax pascal?

[Dan Gahlinger]

I didn't port it from vax pascal.
in fact, I've never done any vax pascal programming in my life.

I ported it from vax fortran to turbo pascal. yeah, that was fun, not.

but now I want to move my new code back to the vax in whatever language.

vax basic is the one I'm most familiar with, followed by DCL

the free pascal code is on the order of several hundred thousand lines of 
source code.
it's become quite a beast over the decades.
maybe I'll spend the next 38 years porting it back 
Dan.

From: Jeremy Begg 
Sent: February 8, 2018 1:36 AM
To: Dan Gahlinger
Cc: Jeremy Begg; Jon Elson; simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] anyone know how to convert/translate turbo pascal to vax 
pascal?

Despite porting the program from VAX Pascal to various flavours of other 
Pascal, it seems you don’t recall much about the language.
Moving from Pascal to BASIC would be quite an exercise.

In VAX Pascal the reserved identifiers INPUT and OUTPUT refer to SYS$INPUT and 
SYS$OUTPUT, respectively.
Here’s a simple program which prompts for user input.

program hello(input,output);
var s : varying [80] of char;
begin
write('What is your name? ');
while not eof(input) do
begin
readln(s);
if length(s) > 0 then break;
write('What is your name? ');
end;
writeln('Hello ', s);
end.

Jeremy

On 8 Feb 2018, at 4:49 PM, Dan Gahlinger 
> wrote:

I found a hello world pascal example online for vms,
so at least that much I can get working.

however, all the docs online are not so useful for programming itself.
my code has input and output from the terminal and from files.
the hello program uses: program hello(output);
so not sure how to do in and out from the terminal.
tried googling examples but no such luck beyond hello world.

it might be easier for me to port to vax basic, I used to be an expert at that, 
many moons ago.

Dan.

From: Simh 
> on 
behalf of Jon Elson >
Sent: February 7, 2018 9:25 PM
To: simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: [Simh] anyone know how to convert/translate turbo pascal to vax pascal?

On 02/07/2018 05:57 PM, 
simh-requ...@trailing-edge.com wrote:
> [Simh] anyone know how to convert/translate turbo pascal to
>vax pascal?
> Message-ID:
>
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> since I did all that work recreating "castle" from the vax to the pc
> using turbo pascal (then free pascal)
> I'd like to "port" it back to the vax,
> but the vms 7.3 pascal compiler doesn't recognize "writeln"
> and I suspect things like types and records and case statements wont work 
> either.
>
> anyone have any ideas?
Umm, I just looked back at some Pascal code I had on VAX
Pascal, and it DEFINITELY has writeln statements in it.
This is such basic Pascal syntax, I can't imagine that did
not work.  But, maybe you have to enable some library or
Pascal "unit" to use those functions.

Jon
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Re: [Simh] anyone know how to convert/translate turbo pascal to vax pascal?

[Jeremy Begg]

Despite porting the program from VAX Pascal to various flavours of other 
Pascal, it seems you don’t recall much about the language.
Moving from Pascal to BASIC would be quite an exercise.

In VAX Pascal the reserved identifiers INPUT and OUTPUT refer to SYS$INPUT and 
SYS$OUTPUT, respectively.
Here’s a simple program which prompts for user input.

program hello(input,output);
var s : varying [80] of char;
begin
write('What is your name? ');
while not eof(input) do
begin
readln(s);
if length(s) > 0 then break;
write('What is your name? ');
end;
writeln('Hello ', s);
end.

Jeremy

> On 8 Feb 2018, at 4:49 PM, Dan Gahlinger  wrote:
> 
> I found a hello world pascal example online for vms,
> so at least that much I can get working.
> 
> however, all the docs online are not so useful for programming itself.
> my code has input and output from the terminal and from files.
> the hello program uses: program hello(output);
> so not sure how to do in and out from the terminal.
> tried googling examples but no such luck beyond hello world.
> 
> it might be easier for me to port to vax basic, I used to be an expert at 
> that, many moons ago.
> 
> Dan.
> From: Simh  > on behalf of Jon Elson 
> >
> Sent: February 7, 2018 9:25 PM
> To: simh@trailing-edge.com 
> Subject: [Simh] anyone know how to convert/translate turbo pascal to vax 
> pascal?
>  
> On 02/07/2018 05:57 PM, simh-requ...@trailing-edge.com 
>  wrote:
> > [Simh] anyone know how to convert/translate turbo pascal to
> >vax pascal?
> > Message-ID:
> >
> >  >  
> > >
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > since I did all that work recreating "castle" from the vax to the pc
> > using turbo pascal (then free pascal)
> > I'd like to "port" it back to the vax,
> > but the vms 7.3 pascal compiler doesn't recognize "writeln"
> > and I suspect things like types and records and case statements wont work 
> > either.
> >
> > anyone have any ideas?
> Umm, I just looked back at some Pascal code I had on VAX 
> Pascal, and it DEFINITELY has writeln statements in it.
> This is such basic Pascal syntax, I can't imagine that did 
> not work.  But, maybe you have to enable some library or 
> Pascal "unit" to use those functions.
> 
> Jon
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Re: [Simh] anyone know how to convert/translate turbo pascal to vax pascal?

[Dan Gahlinger]

I found a hello world pascal example online for vms,
so at least that much I can get working.

however, all the docs online are not so useful for programming itself.
my code has input and output from the terminal and from files.
the hello program uses: program hello(output);
so not sure how to do in and out from the terminal.
tried googling examples but no such luck beyond hello world.

it might be easier for me to port to vax basic, I used to be an expert at that, 
many moons ago.

Dan.

From: Simh  on behalf of Jon Elson 

Sent: February 7, 2018 9:25 PM
To: simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: [Simh] anyone know how to convert/translate turbo pascal to vax pascal?

On 02/07/2018 05:57 PM, simh-requ...@trailing-edge.com wrote:
> [Simh] anyone know how to convert/translate turbo pascal to
>vax pascal?
> Message-ID:
>
> 
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> since I did all that work recreating "castle" from the vax to the pc
> using turbo pascal (then free pascal)
> I'd like to "port" it back to the vax,
> but the vms 7.3 pascal compiler doesn't recognize "writeln"
> and I suspect things like types and records and case statements wont work 
> either.
>
> anyone have any ideas?
Umm, I just looked back at some Pascal code I had on VAX
Pascal, and it DEFINITELY has writeln statements in it.
This is such basic Pascal syntax, I can't imagine that did
not work.  But, maybe you have to enable some library or
Pascal "unit" to use those functions.

Jon
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[Simh] anyone know how to convert/translate turbo pascal to vax pascal?

[Jon Elson]

On 02/07/2018 05:57 PM, simh-requ...@trailing-edge.com wrote:

[Simh] anyone know how to convert/translate turbo pascal to
vax pascal?
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

since I did all that work recreating "castle" from the vax to the pc
using turbo pascal (then free pascal)
I'd like to "port" it back to the vax,
but the vms 7.3 pascal compiler doesn't recognize "writeln"
and I suspect things like types and records and case statements wont work 
either.

anyone have any ideas?
Umm, I just looked back at some Pascal code I had on VAX 
Pascal, and it DEFINITELY has writeln statements in it.
This is such basic Pascal syntax, I can't imagine that did 
not work.  But, maybe you have to enable some library or 
Pascal "unit" to use those functions.


Jon
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Re: [Simh] anyone know how to convert/translate turbo pascal to vax pascal?

[Timothe Litt]

On 07-Feb-18 18:22, Dan Gahlinger wrote:
> since I did all that work recreating "castle" from the vax to the pc
> using turbo pascal (then free pascal)
> I'd like to "port" it back to the vax,
> but the vms 7.3 pascal compiler doesn't recognize "writeln"
I would be very surprised by this; writeln is in my copy of Jensen & Wirth.
writeln is also in the PASCAL user manual -
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/vax/lang/pascal/AI-H485E-TE_VAX_PASCAL_User_Manual_Feb87.pdf

See also the language reference manual -
http://pascal-central.com/docs/pascal-refmanual.pdf, which lists WRITELN
as a predeclared procedure.

> and I suspect things like types and records and case statements wont
> work either.
>
> anyone have any ideas?
>
I don't have VAX PASCAL installed.  And I never used Turbo PASCAL.

But I'd start with HELP PASCAL (at the DCL prompt).

Look for a sub-topic like Language, Syntax, and/or RTL.  VAX languages
generally have detailed help.
You'll probably find your answer there. 

Also, you may need /standard:(validation with ANSI or ISO), and or
/old_version depending on what flavor/version of VAX pascal you used. 
See appendix D.

Use the manuals for gory details.

> Dan.
>



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Re: [Simh] anyone know how to convert/translate turbo pascal to vax pascal?

[Armistead, Jason]

Dan

What exact version of Pascal compiler are you using ?  (presumably you are 
using OpenVMS 7.3 on a VAX  as the operating system)

What is the exact message the complier gives concerning the writeln() function?

Can you generate a simple “proof of concept” and share what you are doing ?

Looking at the HP Pascal for OpenVMS Language Reference Manual (for V5.8/V5.9) 
it is supported

http://h30266.www3.hpe.com/odl/i64lp/progtool/pasi6461/pasi64rm.pdf

It’s hard to “suspect” that types and records are also non-existent, along with 
writeln().  They’re part of what makes Pascal, well …, Pascal !


Jason


From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Dan Gahlinger
Sent: Wednesday, 7 February 2018 6:22 PM
To: simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: [External] [Simh] anyone know how to convert/translate turbo pascal to 
vax pascal?

since I did all that work recreating "castle" from the vax to the pc
using turbo pascal (then free pascal)
I'd like to "port" it back to the vax,
but the vms 7.3 pascal compiler doesn't recognize "writeln"
and I suspect things like types and records and case statements wont work 
either.

anyone have any ideas?

Dan.
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Re: [Simh] Tops-10 question/help

[Timothe Litt]

On 07-Feb-18 15:27, Quentin North wrote:
> Hi all
>
> A bit off topic, but Im not a historical Dec user so don’t know some
> of the basics with Dec OSes and have never oped one before.
>
> I have installed and configured Tops-10 on a simh PDP10.
>
> It is all fine, but when I am creating user accounts I have bumped
> into two minor issues and after wading through some enormous manuals I
> am none the wiser on how to solve. The issues are:
>
> When I set up a new users I get  a message something like: 
> New user PPN: [27,100]
> %REANDF No default project 27 profile found
>
> How do I set up the default profile and where (show mentions [27,%] or
> [%,%] but I don’t understand these PPNs)?
>
> When I login with a user that I have created I don’t seem to get a
> default SSL and dsk: is not assigned to dskb. If I manually assign
> dskb: dsk: that seems to work in that I can direct, but it doesn’t
> seem to just do that.
>
> .login quentin
> Job 3  KS10  TTY1
> %LGNSLE Search list is empty
> 20:05    7-Feb-118   Wednesday
>
> .dir
>
> %WLDSLE Search list empty 
>
> .dir dsk:
>
> %WLDSLE Search list empty dsk:
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Quentin
>

The defaults for a group are under the PPN [27,%].  Just create it with
react.  If there is no [27,%], the system-wide default is [%,%].  %
represents a reserved project or programmer number.  It is accepted by
the parser.

The search list for a user is defined by the disks on which quotas are
assigned.  Again, in react.

.r react

react>change [27,200] ; or [27,%], or [%,%]

change>structure-quota dskb inf inf

(I'm not quite sure of the exact syntax; it's been a while since I had
to do this - use '?')

I believe that react is documented in the tops-10 installation guide.

This assumes a relatively recent monitor.  The older react had a more
cryptic UI, and it's own specification in the software notebooks.  I
think it was about 7.02 when the new react was written using GLXLIB. 
The early prototypes had horrible performance due to a homebrew file
structure.  We had university customers with thousands of accounts.  I
converted it to use RMS index files - which upset the RMS group (who
thought RMS-10 would only be used for COBOL), but the performance was
stellar.  So the RMS group was instructed to fix the one bug that this
uncovered.





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[Simh] Tops-10 question/help

[Quentin North]

Hi all

A bit off topic, but Im not a historical Dec user so don’t know some of the 
basics with Dec OSes and have never oped one before.

I have installed and configured Tops-10 on a simh PDP10.

It is all fine, but when I am creating user accounts I have bumped into two 
minor issues and after wading through some enormous manuals I am none the wiser 
on how to solve. The issues are:

When I set up a new users I get  a message something like: 
New user PPN: [27,100]
%REANDF No default project 27 profile found

How do I set up the default profile and where (show mentions [27,%] or [%,%] 
but I don’t understand these PPNs)?

When I login with a user that I have created I don’t seem to get a default SSL 
and dsk: is not assigned to dskb. If I manually assign dskb: dsk: that seems to 
work in that I can direct, but it doesn’t seem to just do that.

.login quentin
Job 3  KS10  TTY1
%LGNSLE Search list is empty
20:057-Feb-118   Wednesday

.dir

%WLDSLE Search list empty 

.dir dsk:

%WLDSLE Search list empty dsk:

Thanks for any help.

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Re: [Simh] RSTS/E Reminiscing

[John H. Reinhardt]

On 2/7/2018 1:42 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:

On 2018-02-07 18:01, John H. Reinhardt wrote:

With all the recent discussion of BASIC games and such, I have been reminiscing 
about my first days introduced to RSTS/E and the PDP-11 at Rose-Hulman 
Institute of Technology's Camp Retupmoc in summer 1977.  At the time they were 
running V6B on their PDP-11/70.  I've searched for some time for various 
versions of RSTS/E and I've found a few distributions.


The joy of reliving yesteryear... ;-)


I have a real PDP-11 chassis and cards which I am slowly working toward 
refurbishing.  But they are newer MicroPDP-11 types and would not run anything 
older than V8 or V9.  I've found a copy of V6C which is pretty close but I'm 
wondering if anyone has V6B on TAP format. Hopefully the SYSGEN tape or a 
running system that can be re-configured.  I would run it on a SIM-11 emulation.


I would have expected V7 something to be the ultimate if you wanted "old" style 
RSTS/E. V8 might also fit the bill. V9 definitely have a different taste, though...


I know mention has been made of source listing/tapes.  I don't know the 
legality but if it's possible to get source for a V6 or even V7 I'd love to 
have it to look at to see how things were done.


While I really can't help with finding any distributions, I can at least 
comment on the legality question, even if you won't like the answer. RSTS/E is 
still owned by someone (XX2247 LLC) and is not available as things stand today.
It's a long story...

   Johnny



Hi Johnny,

We actually ran V7.x for the majority part of the time I was at Rose-Hulman (1978-1983) 
but V6B was my first exposure to RSTS/E and in fact to just about any "large" 
computing system.  At the time in 1977 when I went to the camp I had been working on 
building a Digital Group Z-80 from kits but hadn't finished.  It might be that V7 was the 
epitome classic RSTS/E before DCL, etc but your first is something special.

I have been following all the news about the disappearance of Mentec, the 
shadowy existance of XX2247, LLC and all.  I was hoping there was news that I'd 
missed. But I see not.


--
John H. Reinhardt
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Re: [Simh] RSTS/E Reminiscing

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2018-02-07 18:01, John H. Reinhardt wrote:
With all the recent discussion of BASIC games and such, I have been 
reminiscing about my first days introduced to RSTS/E and the PDP-11 at 
Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology's Camp Retupmoc in summer 1977.  At 
the time they were running V6B on their PDP-11/70.  I've searched for 
some time for various versions of RSTS/E and I've found a few 
distributions.


The joy of reliving yesteryear... ;-)

I have a real PDP-11 chassis and cards which I am slowly working toward 
refurbishing.  But they are newer MicroPDP-11 types and would not run 
anything older than V8 or V9.  I've found a copy of V6C which is pretty 
close but I'm wondering if anyone has V6B on TAP format. Hopefully the 
SYSGEN tape or a running system that can be re-configured.  I would run 
it on a SIM-11 emulation.


I would have expected V7 something to be the ultimate if you wanted 
"old" style RSTS/E. V8 might also fit the bill. V9 definitely have a 
different taste, though...


I know mention has been made of source listing/tapes.  I don't know the 
legality but if it's possible to get source for a V6 or even V7 I'd love 
to have it to look at to see how things were done.


While I really can't help with finding any distributions, I can at least 
comment on the legality question, even if you won't like the answer. 
RSTS/E is still owned by someone (XX2247 LLC) and is not available as 
things stand today.

It's a long story...

  Johnny

--
Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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Re: [Simh] RSTS/E Reminiscing

[Brett Bump]

Hi John,

Paul Nankervis grabbed an image of the V6C tape I had been hording for
almost 40 years and found a 1 block error that caused INIT.SYS to stop
with an "INIT BUG".  You are probably running that copy of V6C as no
other copy has been found (in 40 years).  Ashley Carder had (I think)
V6A running on the original Wofford Witch, but that distro has never
been retrieved.  We have been hunting for many years to fill the gaps
and it seems the only ones missing are the V5 set, V6A, V6B and V7.1.

Pretty much everything else (distros) are online either at:

 RSTS.org, trailing-edge.com, pdp-11.org.ru, or Bitsavers.

Actual sources to the distro kits are pretty much non-existant.

Brett

On Wed, 7 Feb 2018, John H. Reinhardt wrote:

With all the recent discussion of BASIC games and such, I have been 
reminiscing about my first days introduced to RSTS/E and the PDP-11 at 
Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology's Camp Retupmoc in summer 1977.  At the 
time they were running V6B on their PDP-11/70.  I've searched for some time 
for various versions of RSTS/E and I've found a few distributions.


I have a real PDP-11 chassis and cards which I am slowly working toward 
refurbishing.  But they are newer MicroPDP-11 types and would not run 
anything older than V8 or V9.  I've found a copy of V6C which is pretty close 
but I'm wondering if anyone has V6B on TAP format. Hopefully the SYSGEN tape 
or a running system that can be re-configured.  I would run it on a SIM-11 
emulation.


I know mention has been made of source listing/tapes.  I don't know the 
legality but if it's possible to get source for a V6 or even V7 I'd love to 
have it to look at to see how things were done.



--
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[Simh] RSTS/E Reminiscing

[John H. Reinhardt]

With all the recent discussion of BASIC games and such, I have been reminiscing 
about my first days introduced to RSTS/E and the PDP-11 at Rose-Hulman 
Institute of Technology's Camp Retupmoc in summer 1977.  At the time they were 
running V6B on their PDP-11/70.  I've searched for some time for various 
versions of RSTS/E and I've found a few distributions.

I have a real PDP-11 chassis and cards which I am slowly working toward 
refurbishing.  But they are newer MicroPDP-11 types and would not run anything 
older than V8 or V9.  I've found a copy of V6C which is pretty close but I'm 
wondering if anyone has V6B on TAP format. Hopefully the SYSGEN tape or a 
running system that can be re-configured.  I would run it on a SIM-11 emulation.

I know mention has been made of source listing/tapes.  I don't know the 
legality but if it's possible to get source for a V6 or even V7 I'd love to 
have it to look at to see how things were done.


--
John H. Reinhardt
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[Simh] ANN: Go (Golang) package for handling SIMH-standard tape image files

[Stephen Merrony]

Not sure if anyone's interested, but I just put up a Go package (library)
for handling SIMH tape files.

 

https://github.com/SMerrony/simhtape

 

There's also a demo program which uses the package to scan, dump and even
create tape images.

 

Steve

 

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Stephen Merrony -  http://stephenmerrony.co.uk/dg/doku.php

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