[Simh] mac lisp on pdp-10?
Can ITS and maclisp run on the simh pdp-10 emulator? Does it run shrdlu? -- Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] mac lisp on pdp-10?
On Thu, 21 Jun 2012, Tim Newsham wrote: > Can ITS and maclisp run on the simh pdp-10 emulator? > Does it run shrdlu? Unless you want this exact thing as a kind of archeological exercise, the original guys behind SHRDLU claim to have it ported to Common Lisp. http://hci.stanford.edu/~winograd/shrdlu/ http://hci.stanford.edu/winograd/shrdlu/code.tar http://hci.stanford.edu/~winograd/shrdlu/download/consoleshrdlu.zip >From what I have seen in Maclisp-ed source code of it, Common Lisp is indeed descendant of Maclisp, and the code looks quite familiar. So if the Windows console port does not work, it may be possible to hack on original a bit and load it anyway into generic CL environment. Well, maybe a little more than just a bit - CLISP.exe included with zip is old, XX-century ld... (My first post here, so hello everybody. I am simply curious and fascinated with stuff that doesn't want to go away in spite of all marketing hype - I suspect this stuff has strong qi in it, I want some of this qi for myself). Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com ** ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] mac lisp on pdp-10?
the common lisp port was written by a group of students and is known to have many issues. On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 6:26 AM, Tomasz Rola wrote: > On Thu, 21 Jun 2012, Tim Newsham wrote: > >> Can ITS and maclisp run on the simh pdp-10 emulator? >> Does it run shrdlu? > > Unless you want this exact thing as a kind of archeological exercise, the > original guys behind SHRDLU claim to have it ported to Common Lisp. > > http://hci.stanford.edu/~winograd/shrdlu/ > > http://hci.stanford.edu/winograd/shrdlu/code.tar > > http://hci.stanford.edu/~winograd/shrdlu/download/consoleshrdlu.zip > > From what I have seen in Maclisp-ed source code of it, Common Lisp is > indeed descendant of Maclisp, and the code looks quite familiar. So if the > Windows console port does not work, it may be possible to hack on original > a bit and load it anyway into generic CL environment. Well, maybe a little > more than just a bit - CLISP.exe included with zip is old, > XX-century ld... > > (My first post here, so hello everybody. I am simply curious and > fascinated with stuff that doesn't want to go away in spite of all > marketing hype - I suspect this stuff has strong qi in it, I want some > of this qi for myself). > > Regards, > Tomasz Rola > > -- > ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** > ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** > ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** > ** ** > ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com ** -- Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] mac lisp on pdp-10?
on a related note, it seems that its.os.org is no longer on the internet, but is still listed as the URL to find ITS images, ie on trailing-edge's page for the klh10 emulator: http://klh10.trailing-edge.com/ is anyone aware of a mirror of the its.os.org files or other sources for ITS images? On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 7:45 AM, Tim Newsham wrote: > the common lisp port was written by a group of > students and is known to have many issues. > > On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 6:26 AM, Tomasz Rola wrote: >> On Thu, 21 Jun 2012, Tim Newsham wrote: >> >>> Can ITS and maclisp run on the simh pdp-10 emulator? >>> Does it run shrdlu? >> >> Unless you want this exact thing as a kind of archeological exercise, the >> original guys behind SHRDLU claim to have it ported to Common Lisp. >> >> http://hci.stanford.edu/~winograd/shrdlu/ >> >> http://hci.stanford.edu/winograd/shrdlu/code.tar >> >> http://hci.stanford.edu/~winograd/shrdlu/download/consoleshrdlu.zip >> >> From what I have seen in Maclisp-ed source code of it, Common Lisp is >> indeed descendant of Maclisp, and the code looks quite familiar. So if the >> Windows console port does not work, it may be possible to hack on original >> a bit and load it anyway into generic CL environment. Well, maybe a little >> more than just a bit - CLISP.exe included with zip is old, >> XX-century ld... >> >> (My first post here, so hello everybody. I am simply curious and >> fascinated with stuff that doesn't want to go away in spite of all >> marketing hype - I suspect this stuff has strong qi in it, I want some >> of this qi for myself). >> >> Regards, >> Tomasz Rola >> >> -- >> ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** >> ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** >> ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** >> ** ** >> ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com ** > > > > -- > Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com -- Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] mac lisp on pdp-10?
On Sun, 24 Jun 2012, Tim Newsham wrote: > on a related note, it seems that its.os.org is no longer > on the internet, but is still listed as the URL to find ITS > images, ie on trailing-edge's page for the klh10 emulator: > > http://klh10.trailing-edge.com/ > > is anyone aware of a mirror of the its.os.org files or > other sources for ITS images? Myself, I'd like to know the (positive if possible) answer, too. Strangely, I was unable to locate anything in my archives. I must have been fancied by TOPS stories too much. All I was able to find was this: http://www.cosmic.com/u/mirian.html and some links to ITS stuff on http://pdp10.nocrew.org/ Not sure if there you can find what you need. Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com ** ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] mac lisp on pdp-10?
> on a related note, it seems that its.os.org is no longer > on the internet, but is still listed as the URL to find ITS > images, ie on trailing-edge's page for the klh10 emulator: > > http://klh10.trailing-edge.com/ > > is anyone aware of a mirror of the its.os.org files or > other sources for ITS images? Does this help? ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/ftp.its.os.org/ai/ ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/ftp.its.os.org/mc/ ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] mac lisp on pdp-10?
On Mon, 25 Jun 2012, Jacob Goense wrote: > > on a related note, it seems that its.os.org is no longer > > on the internet, but is still listed as the URL to find ITS > > images, ie on trailing-edge's page for the klh10 emulator: > > > > http://klh10.trailing-edge.com/ > > > > is anyone aware of a mirror of the its.os.org files or > > other sources for ITS images? > > Does this help? > > ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/ftp.its.os.org/ai/ > ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/ftp.its.os.org/mc/ Wow. Thanks a lot. Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com ** ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] mac lisp on pdp-10?
many thanks.. though I dont see any mirror of ftp://ftp.its.os.org/its/klh10/pi-its-a0.tar Do you know if this file is available? On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 10:55 AM, Jacob Goense wrote: >> on a related note, it seems that its.os.org is no longer >> on the internet, but is still listed as the URL to find ITS >> images, ie on trailing-edge's page for the klh10 emulator: >> >> http://klh10.trailing-edge.com/ >> >> is anyone aware of a mirror of the its.os.org files or >> other sources for ITS images? > > Does this help? > > ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/ftp.its.os.org/ai/ > ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/ftp.its.os.org/mc/ > > ___ > Simh mailing list > Simh@trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh -- Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] mac lisp on pdp-10?
I believe the included RP06 image is at ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/PI-ITS-RP06.0-dbd9.bz2 It is an KLH10 "dbd9" style image. > many thanks.. though I dont see any mirror of > ftp://ftp.its.os.org/its/klh10/pi-its-a0.tar ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] mac lisp on pdp-10?
Not sure if this is the same thing. The file reference on its.os.org was a .tar file. Did it contain a single file? perhaps klh10 config files and documentation? On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Shoppa, Tim wrote: > I believe the included RP06 image is at > ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/PI-ITS-RP06.0-dbd9.bz2 > > It is an KLH10 "dbd9" style image. > >> many thanks.. though I dont see any mirror of >> ftp://ftp.its.os.org/its/klh10/pi-its-a0.tar -- Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] mac lisp on pdp-10?
I take that back.. the config files present in the klh10 dist under run already reference the PI-ITS-RP06.0-dbd9 file. Unfortunately I havent had much luck running it yet.. not sure why, but possibly because I'm on a 64-bit linux and I built everything with "gcc -m32". I built "base-ks-its" and copied the files from run/ksits and when I run "kn10-ks klh10-kn.ini" and type "go" it doesnt seem to be doing anything. If I hit a key the first key seems to have no visible effect but following keys print out a message like "[CTYI: 15 => 415, old 415]". not sure if this is the emulator misbehaving, or me doing something wrong. On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Tim Newsham wrote: > Not sure if this is the same thing. The file reference on its.os.org was > a .tar file. Did it contain a single file? perhaps klh10 config files and > documentation? > > On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Shoppa, Tim wrote: >> I believe the included RP06 image is at >> ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/PI-ITS-RP06.0-dbd9.bz2 >> >> It is an KLH10 "dbd9" style image. >> >>> many thanks.. though I dont see any mirror of >>> ftp://ftp.its.os.org/its/klh10/pi-its-a0.tar > > > > -- > Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com -- Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] mac lisp on pdp-10?
> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:44:12 -1000 > From: Tim Newsham > Can ITS and maclisp run on the simh pdp-10 emulator? > Does it run shrdlu? Yes, they can. I've been doing it for years. I've not tried SHRDLU on ITS. > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 09:38:05 -1000 > From: Tim Newsham > I take that back.. the config files present in the klh10 dist under run > already reference the PI-ITS-RP06.0-dbd9 file. > Unfortunately I havent had much luck running it yet.. not sure why, but > possibly because I'm on a 64-bit linux and I built everything with "gcc > -m32". I built "base-ks-its" and copied the files from run/ksits and when I > run "kn10-ks klh10-kn.ini" and type "go" it doesnt seem to be doing anything. > If I hit a key the first key seems to have no visible effect but following > keys print out a message like "[CTYI: 15 => 415, old 415]". not sure if this > is the emulator misbehaving, or me doing something wrong. I remember seeing this under ks-kn10, but don't remember what the fix was off hand. I'm away from my computer until later this week, so I'll have to look that up and get back to you, probably not on the SimH list. The SimH KS-10 is much better behaved for ITS, in my experience; I only use KLH10 for Tops-20 v7.x and Tops-10 v7.04. Then again, I usually use the real hardware at the museum for all three. You need to look at Bjorn Victor's intro pages http://victor.se/bjorn/its/ for how to set things up, even if you think you intend to use Ken Harrenstien's distribution on the PI disk image (which you will have to convert to SimH format with the KLH10 tools). Rich Alderson ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] mac lisp on pdp-10?
if you, or others, could provide a guide for running maclisp in ITS in simh, I think that would be great. If not, any hints you can give would be appreciated. I only chose to use klh10 over simh because I read that others had used it to run ITS. On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Rich Alderson wrote: >> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:44:12 -1000 >> From: Tim Newsham > >> Can ITS and maclisp run on the simh pdp-10 emulator? >> Does it run shrdlu? > > Yes, they can. I've been doing it for years. > > I've not tried SHRDLU on ITS. > > >> Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 09:38:05 -1000 >> From: Tim Newsham > >> I take that back.. the config files present in the klh10 dist under run >> already reference the PI-ITS-RP06.0-dbd9 file. > >> Unfortunately I havent had much luck running it yet.. not sure why, but >> possibly because I'm on a 64-bit linux and I built everything with "gcc >> -m32". I built "base-ks-its" and copied the files from run/ksits and when I >> run "kn10-ks klh10-kn.ini" and type "go" it doesnt seem to be doing anything. >> If I hit a key the first key seems to have no visible effect but following >> keys print out a message like "[CTYI: 15 => 415, old 415]". not sure if this >> is the emulator misbehaving, or me doing something wrong. > > I remember seeing this under ks-kn10, but don't remember what the fix was off > hand. I'm away from my computer until later this week, so I'll have to look > that up and get back to you, probably not on the SimH list. > > The SimH KS-10 is much better behaved for ITS, in my experience; I only use > KLH10 for Tops-20 v7.x and Tops-10 v7.04. Then again, I usually use the real > hardware at the museum for all three. > > You need to look at Bjorn Victor's intro pages http://victor.se/bjorn/its/ for > how to set things up, even if you think you intend to use Ken Harrenstien's > distribution on the PI disk image (which you will have to convert to SimH > format with the KLH10 tools). > > Rich Alderson > ___ > Simh mailing list > Simh@trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh -- Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
