Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
On 2015-03-03 21:12, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: On 3 March 2015 at 14:45, Bill Cunningham wrote: Thats what I am looking for. Simh instructions. I think from some kind of OS guide for RSXs one might be able to generate the system. Am I corerct did Dave Cutler with MS have anything to do with RSX ? Correct. Dave Cutler is the "father" of RSX-11/M+, VMS, and Windows NT. (Yes, you may insert "WNT is VMS++" jokes here.) This spun off a whole thread about what role Cutler had on VMS and whatnot. Here is a text Dave wrote on this: http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/Windows-NT_is_VMS_re-implemented.html#forward That said, I agree that VMS was definitely not written by just one person, or designed by one person. People can make what they want of this. Interestingly I heard an anecdote that Cutler contributed so much to RSX-11/M+ that someone thought "Dave Cutler" was a made up name used by groups of programmers because "surely no one can write that much." I think I'm misremembering it. No, you are not misremembering: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:RSX-11 Speaking of SIMH instructions, I've been meaning to, for a while, document the setup of and installation of layered products in, RSTS/E 10.1, but I keep getting sidetracked. Heh... Like me with all the patches I should publish on RSX... Johnny ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
On 2015-03-03 23:32, Al Kossow wrote: the smaller bootable tape is for an rl02 RSXMPRL02 Ah! It's the RSX-11M-PLUS PREGEN system, I suspect. For people who don't know. The RSX distribution tape holds several savesets. RSX11MPBL87 is the standard baseline system. MPBL87SRC holds the sources. (Normally installed during the initial sysgen) Then comes a bunch of patches to layered products. Final saveset is RSXMPRL02, which is a pregenned system for RL02. This is especially useful if your system disk is an RL02, as you do not have enough room to run a SYSGEN on that disk, but it also saves some space and speed, since you can basically install that and start using the system without any more work. It can be customized somewhat. I have no idea what someone have gone to the effort of splitting the distribution tape up the way you people have found things. Johnny ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
the smaller bootable tape is for an rl02 RSXMPRL02 ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
I burst the two Mplus tape images and the smaller is a bootable baseline distribution, the larger has two BRU savesets RSX11MPBL87 and MPBL87SRC ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
On 2015-03-03 23:16, Rhialto wrote: On Tue 03 Mar 2015 at 22:41:18 +0100, Johnny Billquist wrote: Something very obvious if you know the actual hardware. I may be a bit spoiled by (Net)BSD, which prints a nice device tree when it boots: you can see which devices are attached to which buses, giving their exact names. When simh shows "TU Massbus adapter 1, FORMATTER, TM03, 8 units" it doesn't tell me that said massbus adaptor is called "RHB" (although that is mentioned in the help text for RHB). It also doesn't help that DEC has these interesting tendencies to have rather different names for the devices, controllers and their drivers (and each of those is used, in various places). Of course, there is some system to it, I see that, but it takes some getting used to... Well, once you get RSX booted, try "CON DIS FULL ATT" for more detailed information. :-) simh information is about equivalent to trying to get the hardware configuration of a PC from the BIOS user interface... :-) I sense a problem here based on you trying to run and operate a system which you know nothing about. You will hit more problems that way. Might be worth researching a bit about actual PDP-11 systems... I'm trying :) Excellent! :-) Thanks for the exposition about the tapes. I have simply been trying a few different configurations I found here and there until I got something where I could (sort of) see why it worked. Happy to help with more information if you, or someone else wants to know... Johnny ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
On Tue 03 Mar 2015 at 22:41:18 +0100, Johnny Billquist wrote: > Something very obvious if you know the actual hardware. I may be a bit spoiled by (Net)BSD, which prints a nice device tree when it boots: you can see which devices are attached to which buses, giving their exact names. When simh shows "TU Massbus adapter 1, FORMATTER, TM03, 8 units" it doesn't tell me that said massbus adaptor is called "RHB" (although that is mentioned in the help text for RHB). It also doesn't help that DEC has these interesting tendencies to have rather different names for the devices, controllers and their drivers (and each of those is used, in various places). Of course, there is some system to it, I see that, but it takes some getting used to... (Note: I've been dabbling with VM/370 on Hercules, the IBM 3[679]0/etc emulator, and that is wy worse... so everything is relative.) > I sense a problem here based on you trying to run and operate a system which > you know nothing about. You will hit more problems that way. Might be worth > researching a bit about actual PDP-11 systems... I'm trying :) Thanks for the exposition about the tapes. I have simply been trying a few different configurations I found here and there until I got something where I could (sort of) see why it worked. > Johnny -Olaf. -- ___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert -- The Doctor: No, 'eureka' is Greek for \X/ rhialto/at/xs4all.nl-- 'this bath is too hot.' pgprhmE5By6bW.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
On 2015-03-03 22:40, Rhialto wrote: On Tue 03 Mar 2015 at 22:08:29 +0100, Johnny Billquist wrote: attach tm0 BB-J0830-01.M01_RSX11M+_V4.6_1999.tap This would be the full system. attach tm1 BB-J0830-01.L01_RSX11M+_V4.6_BRU_1999.tap This is slightly weird, as the normal RSX distribution of V4.6 is just one tape that holds both BRUSYS and the distribution. Hm weird, since going by the file sizes, the L file is the larger one, and not bootable. Weird stuff indeed. 11M BB-J0830-01.M01_RSX11M+_V4.6_1999.tap <-- booted off this one 30M BB-J0830-01.L01_RSX11M+_V4.6_BRU_1999.tap <-- contains the string ***THIS VOLUME DOES NOT CONTAIN A HARDWARE BOOTABLE SYSTEM *** near the start I actually tried booting it once, and it then prints the string. I suspect that second tape is not bootable then. I wonder where these tapes came from...? They do not seem to be the original distribution tape. To make things clear, tapes and disks which are not bootable actually have a boot block, which only prints that message to the console, and then halts the cpu. The BRU tape, which was separate in older systems, held only the BRUSYS image, which you booted. And then you needed to switch tapes to the distribution tape, to restore from. Seemingly that is still true with these files despite different names. Of course the pdf I have is for installing 4.3 and calls the boot tape BRUSYS. http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/rsx11/RSX11Mplus_V4.x/2a/AA-H431H-TC_RSX-11M-PLUS_4.3_System_Generation_and_Installation_Guide_Jan90.pdf Yes. V4.3 was distributed on two tapes. But the BRUSYS tape is really small. It don't look like the tapes you have match a proper distribution. The "smaller" tape file do seem to have a BRUSYS image on it, but probably have some other stuff as well, based on the size of the thing. The "large" tape seems to have a full system, but exactly what is in there, I have no idea. I wonder why the M tape is so large; applying "strings" to it shows lots of stuff including Macro-11 source files. Could it still be, like that manual suggests in section 2.2.1 on page 2-5, that it is indeed "BRUSYS Standalone Copy System and Layered Product Corrections"? I don't think so. Sounds more like someone did a backup of a just installed/booted system on tape... Oh, still haven't had much time to look at Kermit :( No worry. :-) Johnny ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
On Tue 03 Mar 2015 at 22:08:29 +0100, Johnny Billquist wrote: > >attach tm0 BB-J0830-01.M01_RSX11M+_V4.6_1999.tap > > This would be the full system. > > >attach tm1 BB-J0830-01.L01_RSX11M+_V4.6_BRU_1999.tap > > This is slightly weird, as the normal RSX distribution of V4.6 is just one > tape that holds both BRUSYS and the distribution. Hm weird, since going by the file sizes, the L file is the larger one, and not bootable. 11M BB-J0830-01.M01_RSX11M+_V4.6_1999.tap <-- booted off this one 30M BB-J0830-01.L01_RSX11M+_V4.6_BRU_1999.tap <-- contains the string ***THIS VOLUME DOES NOT CONTAIN A HARDWARE BOOTABLE SYSTEM *** near the start I actually tried booting it once, and it then prints the string. > The BRU tape, which was separate in older systems, held only the BRUSYS > image, which you booted. And then you needed to switch tapes to the > distribution tape, to restore from. Seemingly that is still true with these files despite different names. Of course the pdf I have is for installing 4.3 and calls the boot tape BRUSYS. http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/rsx11/RSX11Mplus_V4.x/2a/AA-H431H-TC_RSX-11M-PLUS_4.3_System_Generation_and_Installation_Guide_Jan90.pdf I wonder why the M tape is so large; applying "strings" to it shows lots of stuff including Macro-11 source files. Could it still be, like that manual suggests in section 2.2.1 on page 2-5, that it is indeed "BRUSYS Standalone Copy System and Layered Product Corrections"? Oh, still haven't had much time to look at Kermit :( -Olaf. -- ___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert -- The Doctor: No, 'eureka' is Greek for \X/ rhialto/at/xs4all.nl-- 'this bath is too hot.' pgpFrFn5jbYc5.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
On 2015-03-03 22:26, Rhialto wrote: On Tue 03 Mar 2015 at 13:05:50 -0500, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: My simulator config is big, and somewhat redundant, I actually have the installation phase and its tape swap automated with: SET TU0 LOCK ATTACH TU0 TAP\BB-J0830-01.M01_RSX11M+_V4.6_1999.tap BOOT TU0 ATTACH TU0 TAP\BB-J0830-01.L01_RSX11M+_V4.6_BRU_1999.tap CONTINUE I have the tapes in a subfolder called "TAP". And I swap the tapes between drives after the standalone boot tape has booted by just hitting Ctrl+E just once. Nice trick! I've used it immediately in my test setup. This time I started with a configuration which is closer to the system I had set up already anyway. Swapping tapes would/should be obvious, if people think about it. If that is what you did on a real system, you obviously need to do the same in the emulated one... After quadruple checking the csr and vector addresses (and no, if SHOW TU doesn't list them, it doesn't mean they are fixed and therefore correct; instead I had to do SHOW RHB to find the values. This might be a small point of improvement for simh; I could also use some help from simh to find out that connection, which may be obvious to the experienced, but it wasn't for me. I only discovered it by crosschecking device names in my running RSX system) Something very obvious if you know the actual hardware. I sense a problem here based on you trying to run and operate a system which you know nothing about. You will hit more problems that way. Might be worth researching a bit about actual PDP-11 systems... A TU tape drive is a MASSBUS tape drive. As such, it do not directly connect to your system. The MASSBUS is a separate I/O bus. You then have a MASSBUS controller on your Unibus. To make it even more interesting, the tape drive is not actually sitting on the MASSBUS either, but in reality there is something called a formatter, which sits on the MASSBUS. For a TU77, this would normally be a TM03. The TM03 can then, in turn, have as many as eight TU77 drives connected. But form the CPU, the CSR and vector related are those of the MASSBUS controller. One difference that at first I did not understand, was that I got this: BRU - Starting Tape 1 on MM0: BRU - This disk will not contain a hardware bootable system BRU - End of Tape 1 on MM0: BRU - Starting verify pass Tape 1 on MM0: BRU - End of Tape 1 on MM0: BRU - Completed Not sure why you would get that message, unless you were restoring a backup saveset that actually is not a bootable saveset. However, after reading the actual documentation :) AA-H431H-TC_RSX-11M-PLUS_4.3_System_Generation_and_Installation_Guide_Jan90.pdf I see that I need to swap the tapes between booting and running BRU. I didn't see that happening in your log file somehow, although you do mention it. That is a different thing. This is because back at V4.3, the BRUSYS standalone system was distributed on one tape, and the RSX system itself was on another tape. So you mounted the BRUSYS tape, and booted from it. Once it had booted, you removed this tape, and instead put the RSX distribution tape in the drive, and proceeded to restore from that tape. The message about a hardware bootable system is unrelated to this. Forthermore, by M+ V4.6, the two tapes were actually combined to just one tape, so you normally do not have two tapes, or switch between tapes during the installation. Johnny ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
On Tue 03 Mar 2015 at 13:05:50 -0500, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: > My simulator config is big, and somewhat redundant, I actually have > the installation phase and its tape swap automated with: > SET TU0 LOCK > ATTACH TU0 TAP\BB-J0830-01.M01_RSX11M+_V4.6_1999.tap > BOOT TU0 > ATTACH TU0 TAP\BB-J0830-01.L01_RSX11M+_V4.6_BRU_1999.tap > CONTINUE > I have the tapes in a subfolder called "TAP". And I swap the tapes > between drives after the standalone boot tape has booted by just > hitting Ctrl+E just once. Nice trick! I've used it immediately in my test setup. This time I started with a configuration which is closer to the system I had set up already anyway. After quadruple checking the csr and vector addresses (and no, if SHOW TU doesn't list them, it doesn't mean they are fixed and therefore correct; instead I had to do SHOW RHB to find the values. This might be a small point of improvement for simh; I could also use some help from simh to find out that connection, which may be obvious to the experienced, but it wasn't for me. I only discovered it by crosschecking device names in my running RSX system) One difference that at first I did not understand, was that I got this: BRU - Starting Tape 1 on MM0: BRU - This disk will not contain a hardware bootable system BRU - End of Tape 1 on MM0: BRU - Starting verify pass Tape 1 on MM0: BRU - End of Tape 1 on MM0: BRU - Completed However, after reading the actual documentation :) AA-H431H-TC_RSX-11M-PLUS_4.3_System_Generation_and_Installation_Guide_Jan90.pdf I see that I need to swap the tapes between booting and running BRU. I didn't see that happening in your log file somehow, although you do mention it. Anyway, by also copying from the tape I booted from, I probably copied a bit too much. Any way to get a listing of what's on the tape? Both files are not small: 11M BB-J0830-01.M01_RSX11M+_V4.6_1999.tap <-- booted off this one 30M BB-J0830-01.L01_RSX11M+_V4.6_BRU_1999.tap <-- contains the string ***THIS VOLUME DOES NOT CONTAIN A HARDWARE BOOTABLE SYSTEM *** I've attached my console log. I've stopped at the point where I get the MCR prompt, I haven't done the sysgen. I have removed extraneous ^Ms for readability. -Olaf. -- ___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert -- The Doctor: No, 'eureka' is Greek for \X/ rhialto/at/xs4all.nl-- 'this bath is too hot.' Logging to file "console-log" Logging to file "console-log" at Tue Mar 3 21:24:26 2015 CPU 11/94, NOCIS, idle disabled, autoconfiguration enabled 4088KB RS Massbus adapter 2, 8 units RS0 524KW, not attached, write enabled RS04 RQ0: creating new file RQ address=17772150-17772153, no vector, RQDX3, 4 units RQ0 159MB, attached to fresh.ods1, write enabled RD54, autosize, SIMH format RQ1 159MB, not attached, write enabled RD54, autosize, SIMH format RQ2 159MB, not attached, write enabled RD54, autosize, SIMH format RQ3 800KB, not attached, write enabled RX50, autosize, SIMH format TU Massbus adapter 1, FORMATTER, TM03, 8 units TU0 not attached, write enabled, TE16 SIMH format, unlimited capacity TU1 not attached, write enabled, TE16 SIMH format, unlimited capacity TU2 not attached, write enabled, TE16 SIMH format, unlimited capacity TU3 not attached, write enabled, TE16 SIMH format, unlimited capacity VH address=17760440-17760537*, vector=300-334*, lines=64, 4 units VH0 not attached, DHU mode, Modem Hangup VH1 DHU mode, Modem, Hangup VH2 DHU mode, Modem, Hangup VH3 DHU mode, Modem, Hangup Listening on port 2312 PDP-11/94 System #: 05349 (012345) RSX-11M/RSX-11M-PLUS STANDALONE COPY SYSTEM V4.8 RSX-11M/RSX-11M-PLUS Standalone Configuration and Disk Sizing Program Valid switches are: /CSR=nn to change the default device CSR /VEC=nnn to change the default device vector /FOR=n to change the default magtape formatter number /DEV to list all default device CSR and vectors Enter first device: /dev Device CSR Vector CSR Status -- -- -- -- DB 176700254 Present DK 177404220 Not Present DL 174400160 Not Present DM 177440210 Present DP 176714300 Present DR 176300150 Not Present DU 172150154 Present MM FOR=0 172440330 Present MS 172522224 Not Present MT 16320 Not Present MU 174500260 Not Present Enter first device: mm0:/vec=224 Enter second device: du0: Hit RETURN and enter date and time as 'TIM HH:MM MM/DD/YY' >tim 21:25 03/03/15 >run bad > BAD>du0:/list BAD -- DU0: Total bad blocks= 0. BAD>^Z >run bru > BRU>/init/rewind/verify/maximum:19143/headers:9571 mm0: du0: BRU - Starting Tape 1 on MM0: BRU - This disk will not contain a hardware bootable system BRU - End of Tape 1 o
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
On 2015-03-03 21:31, Sergey Oboguev wrote: There is a couple of publicly accessible system running RSX-11M+. [...] Mim.Update.UU.SE. Just telnet to it. Login with guest/guest You can also access that machine as http://madame.update.uu.se/, or with ftp as ftp://madame.update.uu.se/ It runs under E11, is running RSX-11M+ V4.6, and have all kind of services. (The reason for the different name for telnet compared to other stuff is that I still haven't finished a native telnet server for it.) Mim is also sortof a hub for all of HECnet... Johnny ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
On 2015-03-03 20:45, Bill Cunningham wrote: - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:28:27 -0500 Henry Bent wrote: The gunkies.org wiki has done a pretty fair job of consolidating installation procedures for various flavors of Unix. I believe the person behind the site is on this list, perhaps he would be willing to say whether or not he would be willing to host non-Unix SIMH instructions. Thank you. That's a good site. I don't know if it would be good for the purpose I mentioned but it's a good resource anyway. Thats what I am looking for. Simh instructions. I think from some kind of OS guide for RSXs one might be able to generate the system. Am I corerct did Dave Cutler with MS have anything to do with RSX ? All the RSX manuals are online at bitsavers, including the manual on how to run SYSGEN. Yes, this is the same Dave Cutler who later was involved in VMS, and even later Windows NT. His name is all over the RSX sources... Johnny ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
Quick comments... On 2015-03-03 18:25, Rhialto wrote: On Tue 03 Mar 2015 at 11:00:15 -0500, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: I've attached an installation log from those above mentioned tapes done on SIMH just a short while ago. As can be seen they are Y2K Ah, with a quick looks I see 2 differences: you use a different tape device (I used ms1: -- I had the 2 tapes mounted at the same time), and you specify csr and vector numbers. I'll try later which of the two makes the difference. Part of my config: attach tm0 BB-J0830-01.M01_RSX11M+_V4.6_1999.tap This would be the full system. attach tm1 BB-J0830-01.L01_RSX11M+_V4.6_BRU_1999.tap This is slightly weird, as the normal RSX distribution of V4.6 is just one tape that holds both BRUSYS and the distribution. and I found some logs of what happened for me before (with a bit of cut and paste to insert a recent output of /dev). $ ./pdp11 rsx.ini PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Betagit commit id: af713b78 Disabling XQ sim> boot tm RSX-11M/RSX-11M-PLUS Standalone Copy System V04 RSX-11M/RSX-11M-PLUS Standalone Configuration and Disk Sizing Program Valid switches are: /CSR=nn to change the default device CSR /VEC=nnn to change the default device vector /FOR=n to change the default magtape formatter number /DEV to list all default device CSR and vectors Enter first device: /dev Device CSR Vector CSR Status -- -- -- -- DB 176700254 Not Present DK 177404220 Not Present DL 174400160 Not Present DM 177440210 Not Present DP 176714300 Not Present DR 176300150 Not Present DU 172150154 Present MM FOR=0 172440330 Not Present MS 172522224 Present MT 16320 Not Present MU 174500260 Not Present Enter first device: ms1: Enter second device: du0: Hit RETURN and enter date and time as 'TIM HH:MM MM/DD/YY' run bru BRU>ms1: du0: BRU -- *WARNING* -- Tape label error I/O error code -3 BRU -- *WARNING* -- Volume not a backup tape BRU -- *WARNING* -- Rewind error I/O error code -3 BRU - Mount Tape 1 on MS1: Try MS0: instead. That would, I suspect, work fine, since that tapes contains both the BRUSYS system (which you booted), and the full distribution after. The BRU tape, which was separate in older systems, held only the BRUSYS image, which you booted. And then you needed to switch tapes to the distribution tape, to restore from. The taped named _BRU would not be holding the actual distribution, but only the BRUSYS image. Johnny ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
- Original Message - From: "Sergey Oboguev" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 3:31 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator There is a couple of publicly accessible system running RSX-11M+. *** The first one I know of is located in Novosibirsk and runs RSX-11M-PLUS V4.6 BL87. Some days it is executed by SimH, other days by Ersatz-11. To access, telnet rsx.pdp-11.org.ru That russian site is very nice Then log in as HEL GUEST/ (note the slash before empty password field) Web page (in Russian): http://pdp-11.org.ru/~form/ctakah.html To get an account or for other inquiries contact supp...@pdp-11.org.ru. Login screen reports the date as 4-MAR-15, so the system must be Y2K aware at least to the extent of "mostly running". *** Another one is hosted in IL, but the owner seems to be in MA. http://www.dbit.com telnet rsx.dbit.com This one I can't quite get to. Specifically, if you want to plug your old dusty Unibus or Q-bus card into a PC, knock there. ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
There is a couple of publicly accessible system running RSX-11M+. *** The first one I know of is located in Novosibirsk and runs RSX-11M-PLUS V4.6 BL87. Some days it is executed by SimH, other days by Ersatz-11. To access, telnet rsx.pdp-11.org.ru Then log in as HEL GUEST/ (note the slash before empty password field) Web page (in Russian): http://pdp-11.org.ru/~form/ctakah.html To get an account or for other inquiries contact supp...@pdp-11.org.ru. Login screen reports the date as 4-MAR-15, so the system must be Y2K aware at least to the extent of "mostly running". *** Another one is hosted in IL, but the owner seems to be in MA. http://www.dbit.com telnet rsx.dbit.com Specifically, if you want to plug your old dusty Unibus or Q-bus card into a PC, knock there. ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
- Original Message - From: "Vorländer, Martin" To: Cc: "Bill Cunningham" Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 2:39 AM Subject: Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator Am 03.03.2015 um 04:29 schrieb Bill Cunningham : Is there an instruction sheet anywhere for simh to load the rsx OS I think it's rsx-11m to use with the pdp11 simh emulator? I once found http://home.earthlink.net/~n1be/pdp11/PDP11.html but haven’t yet had the time to try and follow the instructions. That's what I'm looking for. But how does one set up the pdp11 with simh. I think there's the best pdp11 emulator. Of course there are others. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
On 3 March 2015 at 14:45, Bill Cunningham wrote: >Thats what I am looking for. Simh instructions. I think from some kind of > OS guide for RSXs one might be able to generate the system. Am I corerct did > Dave Cutler with MS have anything to do with RSX ? > Correct. Dave Cutler is the "father" of RSX-11/M+, VMS, and Windows NT. (Yes, you may insert "WNT is VMS++" jokes here.) Interestingly I heard an anecdote that Cutler contributed so much to RSX-11/M+ that someone thought "Dave Cutler" was a made up name used by groups of programmers because "surely no one can write that much." I think I'm misremembering it. Speaking of SIMH instructions, I've been meaning to, for a while, document the setup of and installation of layered products in, RSTS/E 10.1, but I keep getting sidetracked. Cheers, Christian -- Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove STCKON08DS0 Contact information available upon request. ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
- Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:28:27 -0500 Henry Bent wrote: The gunkies.org wiki has done a pretty fair job of consolidating installation procedures for various flavors of Unix. I believe the person behind the site is on this list, perhaps he would be willing to say whether or not he would be willing to host non-Unix SIMH instructions. Thank you. That's a good site. I don't know if it would be good for the purpose I mentioned but it's a good resource anyway. Thats what I am looking for. Simh instructions. I think from some kind of OS guide for RSXs one might be able to generate the system. Am I corerct did Dave Cutler with MS have anything to do with RSX ? Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:28:27 -0500 Henry Bent wrote: > The gunkies.org wiki has done a pretty fair job of consolidating > installation procedures for various flavors of Unix. I believe the person > behind the site is on this list, perhaps he would be willing to say > whether or not he would be willing to host non-Unix SIMH instructions. Thank you. That's a good site. I don't know if it would be good for the purpose I mentioned but it's a good resource anyway. ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
The gunkies.org wiki has done a pretty fair job of consolidating installation procedures for various flavors of Unix. I believe the person behind the site is on this list, perhaps he would be willing to say whether or not he would be willing to host non-Unix SIMH instructions. -Henry On 3 March 2015 at 13:23, wrote: > Thank you so much for posting this. I haven't tried anything but OpenVMS > VAX under SIMH yet but looking around for what else I could run on it I > found bits and pieces of info scattered all over the net. The most > frustrating thing was finding pages where people wrote "to be continued" at > the end of a long series of partial sysgens. Talk about a cliffhanger... > > It would be great if the SIMH site could consolidate all the successful > sysgens etc. people are doing on various machines so those of us who have > no idea how to get started could do so. > > > On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:05:50 -0500 > Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: > > [rsx-11m+ sysgen discussion deleted for the sake of brevity] > ___ > Simh mailing list > Simh@trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
Thank you so much for posting this. I haven't tried anything but OpenVMS VAX under SIMH yet but looking around for what else I could run on it I found bits and pieces of info scattered all over the net. The most frustrating thing was finding pages where people wrote "to be continued" at the end of a long series of partial sysgens. Talk about a cliffhanger... It would be great if the SIMH site could consolidate all the successful sysgens etc. people are doing on various machines so those of us who have no idea how to get started could do so. On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:05:50 -0500 Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: [rsx-11m+ sysgen discussion deleted for the sake of brevity] ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
On 3 March 2015 at 12:25, Rhialto wrote: > Ah, with a quick looks I see 2 differences: you use a different tape > device (I used ms1: -- I had the 2 tapes mounted at the same time), and > you specify csr and vector numbers. I'll try later which of the two > makes the difference. > Yeah, that is a problem that is with the standalone RSX-11/M boot tape. It only allows you to define one input device and one output device. So you have to swap tapes no matter what the case may be. It works with the TM, TS, TU, and TQ tape drives. I also specificed the CSR and vector because I have the three MASSBUS setup (running an 11/70 with two RM03, two TE16, and two RS04), and the CSR and vector of the RM03/"DR"-type drives is incorrect. > Part of my config: > > attach tm0 BB-J0830-01.M01_RSX11M+_V4.6_1999.tap > attach tm1 BB-J0830-01.L01_RSX11M+_V4.6_BRU_1999.tap > My simulator config is big, and somewhat redundant, I actually have the installation phase and its tape swap automated with: SET TU0 LOCK ATTACH TU0 TAP\BB-J0830-01.M01_RSX11M+_V4.6_1999.tap BOOT TU0 ATTACH TU0 TAP\BB-J0830-01.L01_RSX11M+_V4.6_BRU_1999.tap CONTINUE I have the tapes in a subfolder called "TAP". And I swap the tapes between drives after the standalone boot tape has booted by just hitting Ctrl+E just once. > and I found some logs of what happened for me before > (with a bit of cut and paste to insert a recent output of /dev). > > $ ./pdp11 rsx.ini > > PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Betagit commit id: af713b78 > Disabling XQ > sim> boot tm > > > RSX-11M/RSX-11M-PLUS Standalone Copy System V04 > > > RSX-11M/RSX-11M-PLUS Standalone Configuration and Disk Sizing Program > > Valid switches are: > /CSR=nn to change the default device CSR > /VEC=nnn to change the default device vector > /FOR=n to change the default magtape formatter number > /DEV to list all default device CSR and vectors > > > Enter first device: /dev > > Device CSR Vector CSR Status > -- -- -- -- > DB 176700254 Not Present > DK 177404220 Not Present > DL 174400160 Not Present > DM 177440210 Not Present > DP 176714300 Not Present > DR 176300150 Not Present > DU 172150154 Present > MM FOR=0 172440330 Not Present > MS 172522224 Present > MT 16320 Not Present > MU 174500260 Not Present > > Enter first device: ms1: > > Enter second device: du0: > > Hit RETURN and enter date and time as 'TIM HH:MM MM/DD/YY' > >>run bru >> > BRU>ms1: du0: > BRU -- *WARNING* -- Tape label error > I/O error code -3 > > BRU -- *WARNING* -- Volume not a backup tape > > BRU -- *WARNING* -- Rewind error > I/O error code -3 > > BRU - Mount Tape 1 on MS1: > Yeah, you need to include the /MAXIMUM: and /HEADERS: fields in the BRU command. And I'm 99% sure that if you try to tell the standalone system to access as an input device, the device it wasn't booted from, it'll do that. Not that I've tested it. I've attached a log file using the MS: and DU: type devices. On an 11/93 system just to also prove that QBUS works fine. It also doesn't use the /CSR or /VEC switches when defining the devices at the start, as I don't have CSR and vector "issues." For those who don't want to page through the PDF of the SYSGEN manual, the values needed for the /MAX and /HEAD switches are: ++-+-+ | DEV| MAX |HEAD | ++-+-+ |RA60|24617|12308| |RA70|34180|25593| |RA80|14629| 7314| |RA81|54815|51699| |RA82|65500|51966| |RA90|65500|65495| |RC25| 3130| 1565| |RD31| 2558|10236| |RD32| 5117|20471| |RD52| 3719| 1859| |RD53| 8529| 4264| |RD54|19143| 9571| |RK07| 3308| 1654| |RM03| 8099| 4049| |RM05|30781|25593| |RM80|14923| 7461| |RP04|10567| 5283| |RP06|20956|10478| ++-+-+ (You'll want to copy and paste that into something monospaced.) Cheers, Christian -- Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove STCKON08DS0 Contact information available upon request. install93.log Description: Binary data ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
On Tue 03 Mar 2015 at 11:00:15 -0500, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: > I've attached an installation log from those above mentioned tapes > done on SIMH just a short while ago. As can be seen they are Y2K Ah, with a quick looks I see 2 differences: you use a different tape device (I used ms1: -- I had the 2 tapes mounted at the same time), and you specify csr and vector numbers. I'll try later which of the two makes the difference. Part of my config: attach tm0 BB-J0830-01.M01_RSX11M+_V4.6_1999.tap attach tm1 BB-J0830-01.L01_RSX11M+_V4.6_BRU_1999.tap and I found some logs of what happened for me before (with a bit of cut and paste to insert a recent output of /dev). $ ./pdp11 rsx.ini PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Betagit commit id: af713b78 Disabling XQ sim> boot tm RSX-11M/RSX-11M-PLUS Standalone Copy System V04 RSX-11M/RSX-11M-PLUS Standalone Configuration and Disk Sizing Program Valid switches are: /CSR=nn to change the default device CSR /VEC=nnn to change the default device vector /FOR=n to change the default magtape formatter number /DEV to list all default device CSR and vectors Enter first device: /dev Device CSR Vector CSR Status -- -- -- -- DB 176700254 Not Present DK 177404220 Not Present DL 174400160 Not Present DM 177440210 Not Present DP 176714300 Not Present DR 176300150 Not Present DU 172150154 Present MM FOR=0 172440330 Not Present MS 172522224 Present MT 16320 Not Present MU 174500260 Not Present Enter first device: ms1: Enter second device: du0: Hit RETURN and enter date and time as 'TIM HH:MM MM/DD/YY' >run bru > BRU>ms1: du0: BRU -- *WARNING* -- Tape label error I/O error code -3 BRU -- *WARNING* -- Volume not a backup tape BRU -- *WARNING* -- Rewind error I/O error code -3 BRU - Mount Tape 1 on MS1: -Olaf. -- ___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert -- The Doctor: No, 'eureka' is Greek for \X/ rhialto/at/xs4all.nl-- 'this bath is too hot.' pgpqaedDxKlWD.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
I'm in a bit of a hurry, so I can't really give a proper response.
On 3 March 2015 at 05:24, Rhialto wrote:
> These are the corrupted tape files. BRU doesn't seem to like either of
> them.
>
> BB-J0830-01.M01_RSX11M+_V4.6_1999.tap
> BB-J0830-01.L01_RSX11M+_V4.6_BRU_1999.tap
> from
> http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/bits/DEC/pdp11/magtapes/rsx11mplus/
>
Those tape images work perfectly well. I have built several RSX-11/M+
systems from them; including a multiprocessor 11/74 setup on E-11.
("Only" three processors working instead of all four, because of a bug
in E-11; so any chance we can get some 11/74 goodness in SIMH,
please?)
I've attached an installation log from those above mentioned tapes
done on SIMH just a short while ago. As can be seen they are Y2K
aware, and they produce a functional and usable RSX-11/M+ system. Of
course it needs more software to make it do anything "neat", other
than RMD (and MACRO-11). BRU on the bootable standalone RSX-11/M tape
(BB-J0830-01.M01) can read the savesets on BB-J0830-01.L01 just fine.
Though you do have to make sure the /MAX: and /HEADERS: fields have
the correct values, otherwise the resultant disk image won't work.
However, the RSX-11 layered product tapes found on the Trailing Edge
FTP site are mostly corrupted, unfortunately. Conversely, the RSTS/E
layered product tapes seem to be fine for the majority (though some
are in TPC format), as is the RSTS/E 10.1-L installation tape.
The SYSGEN process I followed is from AA-H431H-TC; while it is for
RSX-11/M+ 4.3, the process is precisely similar, and in fact after
starting the SYSGEN (with "@SYSGEN") it pretty much explains itself.
The manual itself can be found on BitSavers, right here:
The manual also tells exactly the values to use for the /MAX: and
/HEADERS: switches to the standalone BRU when loading the system from
the tapes; Table 2-1 in the text, text page 2-11, PDF page 41.
Cheers,
Christian
--
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.
install.log
Description: Binary data
___
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Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
On Tue 03 Mar 2015 at 07:39:05 +, Vorländer, Martin wrote: > > > Am 03.03.2015 um 04:29 schrieb Bill Cunningham : > > > >Is there an instruction sheet anywhere for simh to load the rsx OS I > > think it's rsx-11m to use with the pdp11 simh emulator? > > I once found http://home.earthlink.net/~n1be/pdp11/PDP11.html > but haven?t yet had the time to try and follow the instructions. That isn't the latest Y2k-clean version unfortunately. The tape images on trailing edge for rsx-11m plus 4.6 are seemingly unusable. One can boot them but then restoring them to a disk fails. I wonder if these are still corruped by the wrong tape reading, as I read about in the pdp11 newsgroup. These are the corrupted tape files. BRU doesn't seem to like either of them. BB-J0830-01.M01_RSX11M+_V4.6_1999.tap BB-J0830-01.L01_RSX11M+_V4.6_BRU_1999.tap from http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/bits/DEC/pdp11/magtapes/rsx11mplus/ At ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/rsxdists/rsx11mplus_4_6_bl87_dsk.zip is a disk image but http://www.retrocmp.com/how-tos/getting-rsx11m-running-on-simh/203-rsx11m-on-simh-a-quest-for-the-unique-blinking-lights-of-rsx (and the few next blog entries) describe how to fix that one for actual use. I did that, a bit modified. Also, the disk image has been sysgenned already once, so the autoconfiguration doesn't work. These are my modifications to to the procedure described in "RSX11M+ on SIMH - The Problem With RSX File Headers". The author creates a target disk image, to copy all the files from the original one. It's the rsx11mpbl_mxf.dsk file. However for this he uses a copy of the original disk image. While that works, and gets you a file of the correct size, it seems a bit messy to me. I used a zero-filled target disk image. Or even a non-existent one; simh will just create it when starting. Another change is that I chose a 11/94 as model, instead of 11/93. That fit better with the config file I had around: it has a Unibus so you can attach some more disk types. Now if you want to run sysgen on your shiny new RSX, you'll discover it won't offer autoconfiguration of your hardware. That is a sore lack, since typing in all the details is a pain and can easily go wrong if you're not practiced in it yet. However I discovered that the problem is that the disk image has had a sysgen operation already. The resulting multi-user system file won't allow autoconfiguration any more (which is actually explained in the sysgen documentation, once you find it). Fortunately the original system file is still on the disk (initially it boots with system files in a different directory than what you overwrite). So you can do the following just before sysgenning: >dir [*]rsx11m.sys Directory DU0:[001054] 17-JAN-15 02:30 RSX11M.SYS;11026. C 03-NOV-99 18:01 Total of 1026./1026. blocks in 1. file Directory DU0:[002054] 17-JAN-15 02:30 RSX11M.SYS;1498.C 18-DEC-98 02:47 Total of 498./498. blocks in 1. file Grand total of 1524./1524. blocks in 2. files in 2. directories >boot DU0:[002054]RSX11M.SYS RSX-11M-PLUS V4.6 BL87 1920.KW System:"Baseline" >RED DU:=SY: >RED DU:=LB: >RED DU:=SP: >MOU DU0:"RSX11MPBL87" >@[2,54]BASTART.CMD >SET /CRASHDEV=MM0: SET -- Crash device MM000: has been successfully loaded ...etc... When running sysgen you should then get this (instead of what's shown in Appendix F at http://retrocmp.com/how-tos/getting-rsx11m-running-on-simh/207-rsx11m-on-simh-a-sample-sysgen-session ) M>* SU090 Enter the name of the disk drive containing your >* target system disk [ddnn:] [S R:2-5]: du0: >; >ASN DU0:=IN: >ASN DU0:=OU: >ASN DU0:=LB: >ASN DU0:=WK: >ASN DU0:=TK: >ASN DU0:=BC: >ASN DU0:=LI: >ASN DU0:=OB: >ASN DU0:=EX: >ASN DU0:=MP: >; >; The Autoconfigure procedure will attempt to determine your peripheral >; configuration by examining the device registers contained in the I/O >; page. Autoconfigure will print a table of those devices which it >; finds. You can either use the Autoconfigure results directly, or >; you can override them. >; >; If you answer Yes to the following question, SYSGEN will run >; Autoconfigure. If no results are printed within a few minutes, >; Autoconfigure has failed and you should reboot your system and >; restart the SYSGEN. Next time do not use Autoconfigure. >; >; Note: If you have already run a PREPGEN or SYSGEN during which you >; ran Autoconfigure, and you are using the saved answer files from that >; GEN, it is not necessary to run Autoconfigure again. >; >* SU100 Do you want to run Autoconfigure on the host system >* hardware? [Y/N D:N]: y >; >; Running Autoconfigure: >; >ACF >ACO SHOW Processor Type: 11/70 Memory Size: 1920. Kw Options: Floating Point Processor (FP11) Extended Instruction Set (EIS) Extended (22-Bit) Addressing Switch Register (SWR) Display Register Cache Memory Parity Memory NameVector CSR UnitType
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
> Am 03.03.2015 um 04:29 schrieb Bill Cunningham : > >Is there an instruction sheet anywhere for simh to load the rsx OS I > think it's rsx-11m to use with the pdp11 simh emulator? I once found http://home.earthlink.net/~n1be/pdp11/PDP11.html but haven’t yet had the time to try and follow the instructions. cu, Martin ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
