Re: [singularity] Convincing non-techie skeptics that the Singularity isn't total bunk

2006-09-25 Thread Ben Goertzel

Peter Voss wrote:

I have a more fundamental question though: Why in particular would we want
to convince people that the Singularity is coming? I see many disadvantages
to widely promoting these ideas prematurely.


If one's plan is to launch a Singularity quickly, before anyone else
notices, then I feel that promoting these ideas is basically
irrelevant  It is unlikely that promotion will lead to such rapid
spread of the concepts as to create significant risk of
Singularity-enabling technologies being made illegal in the near
term...

OTOH, if the Singularity launch is to happen a little more slowly,
then it will be of value if a larger number of intelligent and
open-minded people have more thoroughly thought through the
Singularity and related ideas.  These sorts of ideas take a while to
sink in; and I think that people who have had the idea of the
Singularity in their minds for a while will be better able to grapple
with the reality when it comes about...

-- Ben

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Re: [singularity] Convincing non-techie skeptics that the Singularity isn't total bunk

2006-09-25 Thread David Hart

Russell Wallace wrote:
Now, Ben was saying awhile ago, IIRC, that he's doing simulated 3D 
worlds as sort of a side project, relatively loosely coupled to the 
rest of Novamente, that would be therefore relatively easy for someone 
else to contribute to without requiring face to face meetings, full 
time etc. Perhaps you could contribute to that, particularly since you 
know maths and physics which are obviously relevant in that domain, if 
you'd be interested?


See:

http://www.agiri.org/forum/index.php?s=610f840cb9f78e24e4f333695e21232ashowtopic=3

http://sourceforge.net/projects/agisim

David

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Re: [singularity] Re: Intuitive limits of applied CogPsy

2006-09-25 Thread Bruce LaDuke

Nathan,

A heuristics on heuristics is a great description of my focus...never heard 
anyone say that, but it is right on.  As a society, we're really starting to 
understand knowledge itself, how to organize it, how to store it, how to 
leverage it, etc.  The 'information age' taught us how to do this.


But we've yet to innovate innovation, create creativity, solve the problem 
of the problem, answer the question of the question, etc.  I see the answer 
to all of these as one answer that centers around an understanding of what 
knowledge creation and questions really are.


But I'm pretty sure we're already in agreement and that this is semantics.  
I see knowledge creation and questions as onlys part of a larger 'design' or 
system.  Knowledge creation is only one of the knowledge interactions.  
These include:


- Knowledge storage—memory and recollection—amount stored equals 
intelligence

- Learning and instruction
- Ignorance
- Knowledge creation (includes innovation, creativity, invention, problem 
solving, and theory)

- Exposure
- Compilation
- Language design
- Collaboration, sharing and connectivity
- Expression and non-expression
- Questions and anti-knowledge (cumulative questions antithetical to 
knowledge)


Note:  I noticed different terms used here in this group for what I would 
consider the same operations.


At any rate, my thought really is that we're pretty far advanced in all of 
these interactions, and actually quite good at some of them, but we've 
entirely skipped knowledge creation and questions as a global society.  And 
answering the 'question of the question' is singularity because this is the 
missing link that ties all of these interactions into a definitive and 
clearly understood 'design' or system.


While its definitely not the only knowledge interaction, I'd submit that 
absolutely none of the other interactions can be fully understood, 
developed, or taken to singularity without understanding these two -- 
knowledge creation and questions.


Kind Regards,

Bruce LaDuke
Managing Director

Instant Innovation, LLC
Indianapolis, IN
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.hyperadvance.com




Original Message Follows
From: Nathan Barna [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: singularity@v2.listbox.com
To: singularity@v2.listbox.com
Subject: Re: [singularity] Re: Intuitive limits of applied CogPsy
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:21:26 -0500

Bruce LaDuke wrote:
In other words, a full understanding of questions and knowleddge creation 
is

the step required to realize 'artificial knowledge creation,' which is
singularity.  Within the construct of these interactions, 'artificial
intelligence' already exists as knowledge stored and recalled artificially.


I can see the artificial aspect in that and how artificial
intelligence in the technical sense could be viewed as overly
specific.

Now I would say that your general concern with questions seems like a
heuristic about being better with heuristics. With regard to
artificial knowledge creation, perhaps that's only part of a design
process. The design process, then, could be a facet of yet a more
involved engineering project. We would still grant that sometimes new
concepts, or new artificial knowledge designs, are so advanced that
it's nowhere near obvious that they wouldn't be extremely valuable in
a so-called more accountable project in the unforeseeable future.

In any case, Bruce, perhaps you'd agree we should leave room for at
least one more step – unless the above is what you already had in mind
and we only needed to reconcile on semantics.

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