Re: [SLUG] FC: Australian government wants to ban Net-gambling (fwd)

[Dave Fitch]

> On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Ian Tester wrote:
> > > The current govt is clueless, lets get one that has a clue. I dunno if the
> > > opposition is any better tho.
> > 
> > Natasha Stot Despoja for PM! I think I'd suddenly become very patriotic then.
> > "Your country sucks. Our national leader is a hot chick! so nyeer!" ;)
> > ...or something like that... :P

hmmm depends if you like the "strong woman" type (a la Maggie
Thatcher only with reasonable opinions).  I went to uni with
Natasha Stot Despoja and she's always been real full on for
politics.  She was student union president and it was obvious
she was destined for a career in real politics.  I'd vote for
her too but because I agree with most of her opinions rather 
than being a hot chick (which sounds a bit "PC" unfortunately).

Dave.

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Re: [SLUG] FC: Australian government wants to ban Net-gambling (fwd)

[Terry Collins]

John Ryland wrote:

...snip

> paid and fairly happy with the conditions they work under, there has been
> little need for a 'union' or for any kind of lobbying group to represent us.
> The closest group that I can think of is the ACS - Australian Computer
> Society. Perhaps we should all become members and get them to lobby Canberra

The problem with the ACS is that it is NOT a union, but a professional
association. 

The second problem is you will find that many people are not eligible to
join the ACS.

--
   Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861  
   email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  www: http://www.woa.com.au  
   WOA Computer Services 

$_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$b=73;$c=142;$t=255;@t=map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=(
$m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16
-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271);if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h
=5;$_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$
d=unxV,xb25,$_;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d8^($f=$t&($d12^$d4^
$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e8^($t&($g=($q=$e14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9,$_=$t[$_]^
(($h=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval

 "People without trees are like fish without clean water"

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Re: [SLUG] FC: Australian government wants to ban Net-gambling (fwd)

[Howard Lowndes]

I think Kate (Lundy) would be more suitable.  Being saddled with Big Kim
might be a bit of a problem though.

-- 
Howard.

LANNet Computing Associates 
   "...well, it worked before _you_ touched it!"

On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Ian Tester wrote:

> 
> > The current govt is clueless, lets get one that has a clue. I dunno if the
> > opposition is any better tho.
> 
> Natasha Stot Despoja for PM! I think I'd suddenly become very patriotic then.
> "Your country sucks. Our national leader is a hot chick! so nyeer!" ;)
> ...or something like that... :P
> 
> 


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Re: [SLUG] FC: Australian government wants to ban Net-gambling (fwd)

[John Ryland]

On Fri, 30 Mar 2001  8:22p, David Kempe wrote:
>
> However, as I have said before, this particular law neither prevents damage
> or stops any practice really. The current govt is clueless, lets get one
> that has a clue. I dunno if the opposition is any better tho.

I guess most governments are informed by experts and lobbists. Considering 
the IT industry is relatively new and that most computer programmers are well 
paid and fairly happy with the conditions they work under, there has been 
little need for a 'union' or for any kind of lobbying group to represent us. 
The closest group that I can think of is the ACS - Australian Computer 
Society. Perhaps we should all become members and get them to lobby Canberra 
to add some informed perspective to the picture (not just online gambling, 
but pretty much most IT issues)

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John

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Re: [SLUG] FC: Australian government wants to ban Net-gambling (fwd)

[Ian Tester]

On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, David Kempe wrote:

> Yes he does have the right. As the sitting government if all of a sudden, 
> people developed this great entertainment called "lets go beat up the 
> neighbours", then I would expect the government to outlaw it.

I'm sure this would come under "assualt and battery". And I sure hope there's
already a law against that, thank you!

> However, as I have said before, this particular law neither prevents damage 
> or stops any practice really.

That's right. It only stops Australians gambling on Australian servers. We can
still gamble on international servers, and international users can still gamble
on Australian servers. The best exlaination I can think of is that the
"reputable people" that own the local casinos exerted a little pressure on
gutless Johnny Howard and his clueless cabinet.

> The current govt is clueless, lets get one that has a clue. I dunno if the
> opposition is any better tho.

Natasha Stot Despoja for PM! I think I'd suddenly become very patriotic then.
"Your country sucks. Our national leader is a hot chick! so nyeer!" ;)
...or something like that... :P

-- 
8<8<8<8<8<8<8<
Ian Tester   *8)#  \7\LINUX: because geeks will find a way
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   \7\  http://www.zipworld.com.au/~imroy





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Re: [SLUG] FC: Australian government wants to ban Net-gambling (fwd)

[Craige McWhirter]

Thus spake David Kempe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

> On Thursday 29 March 2001 09:14, Rachel Polanskis wrote:

> However, as I have said before, this particular law neither prevents damage 
> or stops any practice really. The current govt is clueless, lets get one that 
> has a clue. I dunno if the opposition is any better tho.

... or you could help form one that does have a clue, support a party in 
eutero:


http://www.mcwhirter.com.au/afp


What you'll find there is the beginnings of a party platform. If
SLUGgers out there are serious about the politics that have been spoken
on this list then this is another place to make a difference.

-- 

Cheers,
  Craige.

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Re: [SLUG] FC: Australian government wants to ban Net-gambling (fwd)

[David Kempe]

On Thursday 29 March 2001 09:14, Rachel Polanskis wrote:
> Secondly, he doesn't have the right to determine what mature adults
> should be able to do for entertainment or how they spend their money.

Yes he does have the right. As the sitting government if all of a sudden, 
people developed this great entertainment called "lets go beat up the 
neighbours", then I would expect the government to outlaw it. I would prefer 
the government did decide to act when peoples lives are getting ruined by so 
called "entertainment". 

However, as I have said before, this particular law neither prevents damage 
or stops any practice really. The current govt is clueless, lets get one that 
has a clue. I dunno if the opposition is any better tho.

Dave.

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Re: [SLUG] FC: Australian government wants to ban Net-gambling (fwd)

[Umar Goldeli]

> Anyway, to let out another secret about myself, I am an ex-gambler. 
> At one stage I used to put all my earnings, after paying my rent 
> and food bills &c. through the Poker machines.  I reformed myself 
> and managed to wean myself off them.  I personally think gambling is 
> Evil Incarnate.  

Well, at one stage, I had a roulette habit too. Which was easily fixed -
my bank account went to $0 and I stopped. :)

> Secondly, he doesn't have the right to determine what mature adults 
> should be able to do for entertainment or how they spend their money.

Bingo.

> Thirdly as a technically adept person, we all know how difficult it 
> would be to enforce this law in much the same way as the moronic porn laws.
> Also there is the question of innovation and production of new net 
> technologies where there is revenue to be drawn.   Like all things,
> in moderation, gambling can be fun but there needs to be some 
> sort of regulation to allow those who wish to participate to do 
> so in some sort of structured environment so they are not ripped off 
> or end up losing their house/car/pets &c.



If anything, there should be educational campaigns - regulation in any
form is evil. "Buyer beware" is my motto.

I am sick to death of the Australian government (note the
intentional lowercase g) handholding the population in *every*
situation. And the population gets more and more careless whilst losing
those valuable three or four collective brain cells.

Hell, I don't have to think before I buy anything! Research before buying
a product? Bugger it! - The government will protect me from my own
stupidity and shaft the supplier.

I don't have to read contracts and fine print which is there for a reason
- the government will protect me from my own stupidity - call in the Dept
of Fair Trading, the buyer was too stupid to read the T & C - give him a
refund!

It's getting to the point where even the way toilet paper rolls are
mounted is legislated - up or down? Compulsory this, compulsory that,
legal this, illegal that.. hell, I'd like to make my own decisions thanks.

On another note - has anybody noticed that hardware stores can't sell any
form of blade to under 16's? That pisses me off to no end - when I was
roughly 7 years old, I was using surgical scalpels to build models - my
parents showed me how to use them without lopping off fingers and they
trusted my ability - quite simple. By 16, I had powertools, chainsaws,
access to welders and oxy torches etc..

Now if I turned back the clock and was 16'ish again, I wouldn't be able to
go into HardwareHouse and buy a Stanley blade? Excuse me? Is this so
the little Homies who hang outside Hoyts, look "cool" and try to mug
people don't have easy access to blades at my expense!? Rubbish. Just more
handholding and "fluffy feel good" tactics.

Hasn't anybody noticed that the general populace is slowly being led into
a "don't worry be happy" frame of mind (if they're not already) - don't
think - don't use your judgement. We'll tax the crap out of you.. it's
OK.. the footy is still on.. what's there to worry about?


 
> The labour viewpoint of regulating net gambling is probably the 
> best balanced approach and the lesser of two evils as people 
> will gamble no matter what the law says and regulation at least 
> stops those who cannot help their compulsion from having their 
> life savings syphoned off by the mafia or yakuza or triads or 
> whatever. 

The whole reason for banning net gambling is that they can't tax offshore
gambling sites. Not for any ethical or moral reason.

Hell - anybody can still go to Star City and gamble their kidneys away to
their heart's content.. if you're going to ban gambling online - then
demolish the Casinos as well.. oh, but they can't do that can they?
Because Star City is owned by "reputable people" - oh, and Johhny is good
friends with them, and Alston gets his high grade smack from the owner of
the Crown in Melbourne.. so we'll forget about the bricks and mortar
casinos.. throw some FUD at the populace about the perverts on the 'net
and then mention "online gambling".. that'll fix'em.



//umar.


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Re: [SLUG] FC: Australian government wants to ban Net-gambling (fwd)

[Dave Fitch]

On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 08:32:16AM +1000, Umar Goldeli wrote:
> Sure this does not necessarily directly relate to Linux - but as geeks,
> this should concern you.
> 
> Your Government is fucking both the economy, and the IT industry.

indeed, my favourite is bloody Dick Alston, minister against
IT and Telecommunications.

Dave.

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Re: [SLUG] FC: Australian government wants to ban Net-gambling (fwd)

[Rachel Polanskis]

On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Umar Goldeli wrote:

> Sure this does not necessarily directly relate to Linux - but as geeks,
> this should concern you.

I am in 2 minds about this legislation.
> 
> Your Government is fucking both the economy, and the IT industry.

No argument there.

> If there is anything else that can be done to fuck a country, I'd be quite
> impressed if it isn't already being done here in the "clever country".

Absolutely.  Even if you do not feel the opposition is up to the 
task (and it is no secret that I am a "true believer") just do 
anything you can to vote these fascists space monkeys out. 

> As a certified geek, I can safely say that Australia smells for me, my
> industry and most probably my kind.

Anyway, to let out another secret about myself, I am an ex-gambler. 
At one stage I used to put all my earnings, after paying my rent 
and food bills &c. through the Poker machines.  I reformed myself 
and managed to wean myself off them.  I personally think gambling is 
Evil Incarnate.  

I think there are some personalities (such as myself) that find 
it very hard to resist the addictive attraction that gambling offers. 
Also marketing is driven in such a way that a person with such an addictive
personality cannot have a pleasant evening out in a pub or club 
without being drawn inexorably towards the Evil Ones.

I am in 2 minds about the legislation because I agree
that gambling is out of control in this country.  It is avaricious, evil and 
soul destroying and very few people who have a gambling compulsion 
can avoid it.  Take it from me, I know.

Therefore in spirit I appreciate what Little Fascist Johnny is trying 
to do. 

However, his approach is misplaced - firstly because it is a diversion 
against his current self inflicted political woes.  He is just stirring 
up smoke to make Labour take some sort of imaginary high moral stance.

Secondly, he doesn't have the right to determine what mature adults 
should be able to do for entertainment or how they spend their money.

Thirdly as a technically adept person, we all know how difficult it 
would be to enforce this law in much the same way as the moronic porn laws.
Also there is the question of innovation and production of new net 
technologies where there is revenue to be drawn.   Like all things,
in moderation, gambling can be fun but there needs to be some 
sort of regulation to allow those who wish to participate to do 
so in some sort of structured environment so they are not ripped off 
or end up losing their house/car/pets &c.

The labour viewpoint of regulating net gambling is probably the 
best balanced approach and the lesser of two evils as people 
will gamble no matter what the law says and regulation at least 
stops those who cannot help their compulsion from having their 
life savings syphoned off by the mafia or yakuza or triads or 
whatever. 

As for me, I am glad I was able to get into computers as they cured 
me of the gambling addiction - video games have got to be good for something?!


rachel

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UNIX Administrator  100 Harris Street
IT Operations   Pyrmont, Sydney NSW
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Ph: (+61 2) 900 51144


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[SLUG] FC: Australian government wants to ban Net-gambling (fwd)

[Umar Goldeli]

Sure this does not necessarily directly relate to Linux - but as geeks,
this should concern you.

Your Government is fucking both the economy, and the IT industry.

If there is anything else that can be done to fuck a country, I'd be quite
impressed if it isn't already being done here in the "clever country".

As a certified geek, I can safely say that Australia smells for me, my
industry and most probably my kind.

`cat flames > /dev/null`

//umar.



-- Forwarded message --
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:43:47 -0500
From: Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: FC: Australian government wants to ban Net-gambling

Other recent articles:

http://www.kcstar.com/item/pages/business.pat,business/37753a2e.325,.html
Congress needs to regulate Internet gambling
2001-03-27 05:53:09

http://www.computerworld.com/cwi/stories/0,1199,NAV47-68-84-88-93_STO58996,00.html
Wireless industry sees need for self-regulation of 'wireless vice'
2001-03-27 04:56:50

http://www.newsbytes.com/news/01/163672.html
Australian Government Set To Ban Net Gambling Services
2001-03-27 05:35:05

**

From: "Dave McClure" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Interactive gambling ban - Media Release
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:02:40 -0500
Message-ID: <002301c0b6d7$5a1da510$0ace94cd@dave>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal

Here is the news release from Sen. Richard Alston, Minister for
communications, information technology and the arts, announcing a new effort
to ban gambling in Australia.

http://www.dcita.gov.au/nsapi-graphics/?MIval=dca_dispdoc&pathid=5602

**

[text of press release follows. --DBM]

Interactive gambling ban
The Federal Government will shortly introduce legislation to prohibit 
Australian gambling service providers from providing online and interactive 
gambling and wagering services to people located in Australia, the Minister 
for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts, Senator Richard 
Alston announced today.
'The prohibition will apply to all gaming and wagering services, including 
poker machines, casino games, sports betting and lotteries, that are 
offered on a commercial basis over the Internet or through online delivery 
systems such as interactive television and advanced mobile phone 
technologies,' Senator Alston said.
'However, it will not apply to Australian gambling service providers 
offering such new interactive services to people who are physically located 
overseas. While it is a matter for other countries to decide how they will 
approach online gambling, Australia's status as one of the world's leading 
problem gambling nations demands that we take decisive action to protect 
the most vulnerable in our community.
'Importantly the regime will not place any obligation on Internet Service 
Providers (ISPs) to filter or to block prohibited interactive gambling 
sites. Instead, the legislation will place the onus on gambling service 
providers to determine whether users are physically located in Australia 
and, if they are, to prevent them from accessing the gambling site.
'In relation to gambling service providers located offshore, the Government 
will apply a similar regime to the online content regime whereby ISPs are 
required to inform and make available to their customers relevant 
user-based filters. While this aspect of the regime will be complaints 
based as is the case with online content, it will be administered 
pro-actively through the early identification of the finite number of 
overseas gambling sites which will then be passed on to filter manufacturers.
'The regime will not result in any reduction in Internet performance. 
However, the Coalition Government does not resile from its social 
responsibility to ensure that the Internet is a safe and secure place for 
all Australians to enjoy and to use as a beneficial social, educational and 
business tool.
'The regime will not apply to long-established forms of interactive 
gambling such as telephone betting. Nor will it apply to non-commercial 
activities such as office footy tipping competitions or Melbourne Cup 
sweeps when they are conducted over the Internet. Of course, the regime 
will not apply to Internet share trading.'
Senator Alston said that the Government had taken heed of a recent report 
by the National Office for the Information Economy (NOIE) which 
investigated the feasibility and consequences of banning interactive 
gambling. The report found that the growth of interactive gambling has the 
potential for negative social consequences for Australia because of the 
greatly increased accessibility of gambling services.
'In 1999, the Productivity Commission found that there were some 290,000 
problem gamblers in Australia with 130,000 classified as 'severe' problem 
gamblers,' Senator Alston s