[Fwd: Intellectual property for newbie programmers (was Re: [Fwd: Re: [SLUG] Novell and Microsoft])]

2006-11-07 Thread Phill O'Flynn


Thanks Adam  really!

It did clarify a few issues for me


Regards
Phill O'Flynn


- Original Message
-
Subject: Intellectual property for newbie
programmers (was Re: [Fwd: Re: [SLUG] Novell and Microsoft])
From:   
"Adam Kennedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:Tue, November 7,
2006 6:20 pm
To:  "Phill O'Flynn"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc:  slug@slug.org.au


Phill O'Flynn wrote:
 >
 > As a budding software developer,
I find this copyright and 
intellectual property
 > topic increasingly
tragic. Where does it end? Who doesn't copy ideas? 
Didn't
 > Microsoft
develop Windows 3.1 by borrowing the GUI idea from Apple ( and
 >
subsequently squashing them). Now they want to protect themselves 
from what
they did
 > to others. Or perhaps they want to continue to squash any other

alternative to them
 > ( or better put "Resistance is
futile"


Let me clarify things a little for those getting
started in the 
programming side of things.

There's three different
things you need to care about, and they have 
completely different impacts.
Since there seems to be a little confusion 
in your comments, let me clarify in
simple points. These are 
extraordinarily hand-waving definitions, but hold
true for the most part.

1. Copyright.

- Don't cut and paste
other people's code without asking them.

- Don't use someone else's
module/API unless you agree to their terms.

Plagiarism fits mostly into
here, but in the academic and media sense, 
it's altered somewhat to...

- Cut and paste all you like but ALWAYS say where you got it from.

Open Source (in the extreme broadest sense of the term) is a massive 
positive for you here, because it lets YOU make a legally enforcable 
deal
where you let other people copy your work, as long as you can copy 
theirs back
again if you want to.

Free Software extends this idea further, but in the
most general 
share-and-share-alike sense it's similar.

2.
Trademark

- Don't steal someone's logo in a similar industry.

- Don't use someone else's name in a similar industry.

- Don't
"sort of" do either of the above in a similar industry.

Basically, don't present yourself to the public in a way that the 
average
layman might get confused and think you are them. And even more 
strictly,
don't ever make money off the similarity.

Trademarks are why the
Microsoft Pillow Factory on the Princes Highway 
in Tempe (no really, this
actually exists) is completely safe, while a 
notional "Open Source
Microsoftware" company or something that used the 
"four
colours" windows pattern could be in trouble.

3. Patents

While copyright and trademarks are quite clear and work pretty well, 
patents
are another story.

A patent, fundamentally, goes like this.

-
You have an awesome idea that isn't obvious to anyone else.

Imagine you
are the first person to invent gold plating.

- You can make a huge of
money from it, as long as nobody else knows.

Imagine nobody has seen gold
cups and forks except for solid gold ones 
owned by kings and great figures,
and now YOU can eat like a king for 
only $199.90 per fork!

- So you
go to huge lengths to keep it secret.

You never write down the chemical
solution formula, and you guard 
carefully the machines in sealed buildings and
you make the machines so 
only you can operate them.

- You die, and
because of the extreme secrecy, your idea is lost to society.

This,
obviously, is very very bad. Forget gold plating, imagine losing 
the ability
to make penicilin.

So society does a deal with the devil.

-
Society lets you exploit your idea in the open, but do so AS IF you 
had kept
it secret.

So society enforces your "secrecy"
(exclusivity/monopoly) and lets you 
make even MORE money quickly, because you
don't have to go to the 
efforts to keep it secret.

- In exchange,
Society forces you to tell it in extreme detail EXACTLY 
what your great idea
is. Now when you die (or rather, in 20 years), all 
of society benefits and
your idea isn't lost.

In fact, in any patent application the standard of
documentation to this 
day remains something similar to,

"Enough detail so anyone else in your industry could copy your idea"

And over the course of history, this deal with the devil has worked 
pretty well. Much of the key technical and applied scientific knowledge 
of
mankind is stored in the vast patent office collections, and mankind 
advances
on a (relatively short) 20 year delay without losing the ideas.

So
patents themselves are not inherently bad, even in it. That's a 
somewhat
unpopular idea in this community, but I note that Donald Knuth 
holds the same
position.

The problem for us is that

Intellectual property for newbie programmers (was Re: [Fwd: Re: [SLUG] Novell and Microsoft])

2006-11-06 Thread Adam Kennedy

Phill O'Flynn wrote:
>
> As a budding software developer, I find this copyright and 
intellectual property
> topic increasingly tragic. Where does it end? Who doesn't copy ideas? 
Didn't

> Microsoft develop Windows 3.1 by borrowing the GUI idea from Apple ( and
> subsequently squashing them). Now they want to protect themselves 
from what they did
> to others. Or perhaps they want to continue to squash any other 
alternative to them

> ( or better put "Resistance is futile"


Let me clarify things a little for those getting started in the 
programming side of things.


There's three different things you need to care about, and they have 
completely different impacts. Since there seems to be a little confusion 
in your comments, let me clarify in simple points. These are 
extraordinarily hand-waving definitions, but hold true for the most part.


1. Copyright.

- Don't cut and paste other people's code without asking them.

- Don't use someone else's module/API unless you agree to their terms.

Plagiarism fits mostly into here, but in the academic and media sense, 
it's altered somewhat to...


- Cut and paste all you like but ALWAYS say where you got it from.

Open Source (in the extreme broadest sense of the term) is a massive 
positive for you here, because it lets YOU make a legally enforcable 
deal where you let other people copy your work, as long as you can copy 
theirs back again if you want to.


Free Software extends this idea further, but in the most general 
share-and-share-alike sense it's similar.


2. Trademark

- Don't steal someone's logo in a similar industry.

- Don't use someone else's name in a similar industry.

- Don't "sort of" do either of the above in a similar industry.

Basically, don't present yourself to the public in a way that the 
average layman might get confused and think you are them. And even more 
strictly, don't ever make money off the similarity.


Trademarks are why the Microsoft Pillow Factory on the Princes Highway 
in Tempe (no really, this actually exists) is completely safe, while a 
notional "Open Source Microsoftware" company or something that used the 
"four colours" windows pattern could be in trouble.


3. Patents

While copyright and trademarks are quite clear and work pretty well, 
patents are another story.


A patent, fundamentally, goes like this.

- You have an awesome idea that isn't obvious to anyone else.

Imagine you are the first person to invent gold plating.

- You can make a huge of money from it, as long as nobody else knows.

Imagine nobody has seen gold cups and forks except for solid gold ones 
owned by kings and great figures, and now YOU can eat like a king for 
only $199.90 per fork!


- So you go to huge lengths to keep it secret.

You never write down the chemical solution formula, and you guard 
carefully the machines in sealed buildings and you make the machines so 
only you can operate them.


- You die, and because of the extreme secrecy, your idea is lost to society.

This, obviously, is very very bad. Forget gold plating, imagine losing 
the ability to make penicilin.


So society does a deal with the devil.

- Society lets you exploit your idea in the open, but do so AS IF you 
had kept it secret.


So society enforces your "secrecy" (exclusivity/monopoly) and lets you 
make even MORE money quickly, because you don't have to go to the 
efforts to keep it secret.


- In exchange, Society forces you to tell it in extreme detail EXACTLY 
what your great idea is. Now when you die (or rather, in 20 years), all 
of society benefits and your idea isn't lost.


In fact, in any patent application the standard of documentation to this 
day remains something similar to,


"Enough detail so anyone else in your industry could copy your idea"

And over the course of history, this deal with the devil has worked 
pretty well. Much of the key technical and applied scientific knowledge 
of mankind is stored in the vast patent office collections, and mankind 
advances on a (relatively short) 20 year delay without losing the ideas.


So patents themselves are not inherently bad, even in it. That's a 
somewhat unpopular idea in this community, but I note that Donald Knuth 
holds the same position.


The problem for us is that the standard of judging what is "obvious" and 
what isn't in IT is dangerously bad, and when you look at the speed of 
the IT industry compared to, say, chemistry or engineering or biology, 
20 years is just a ridiculously long period of time.


In this sense, software patents are completely broken.

---

So what should you do then.

If you are wanting to be a programmer, you should learn how copyright 
law works (to the extent you reasonably can without becoming a lawyer), 
and learn how trademarks work (to the extent you reasonably can without 
becoming a lawyer) and more or less ignore how patents are SUPPOSED to 
work, leave campaigning for change to people like Pia and