Re: [SLUG] New website rocks!
At 04:52 AM 17/09/04 +1000, you wrote: So LA have a new website. Finally! :) http://www.linux.org.au. Any breakages reported would be much appreciated! Rock on Australia, Pia Dear SLUGs The idea of having a new website for LA is great, but this new website does not ROCK at all. It has serious design and usability errors, a few of which are outlined below. But these are easily fixed. SLUGGers should not be deluded - good web sites only come from hard work, good content and attention to detail (just like programming) and not from having graphics designers using the latest fashion in typefaces and colour schemes. A good website is not made by deluding oneself that your own site is the best, and that critism is inappropriate or the critic must be a nasty person. Designing website is now a technology taught at TAFE (there are heaps of books on usability) and has not been a guru craft or a black art since 1998. Wages for people who build build sites have fallen from $130 per hour to $30 per hour. Brian === Linux Australia problems, the first 11... 1. The logo on the main page can be clicked, and when it is, it displays the SAME page again. Whilst it is normal for the logo when clicked to return to the home page or all subsidiary pages, this is a big no-no on the main page. All textbooks on usability recommend against having anything which simply displays the same page, as users find it very confusing. 2. None of the images are sized with width= and height= tags. This causes the page to jump around while it's loading, and this is even more annoying on dial up lines and on the first visit. The worst example is the main logo, because it's above the fold on the first page. 3. The Linux Australia title includes a trailing space. 4. The menu choice at the top left includes links to things on the site and off the site. This is bad practice (a) it confuses the users and (b) Do your really want to provide links for your users to leave your site at the top of your main page. (you are a dill if you do). 5. The font at the very bottom of the page is far too small. It's only minor info to be sure, but the font is still too small. If it's not to be read, then simply take it off. Also, this bit has weird added spaces which are just confusing and do not add to the enjoyment. 6. Under the heading Sept 10th, RSS, there is a symbol, which is perhaps trying to look like a diamond replacing a dot point. It's made out of the gt and lt characters. In fact it looks weird, like a coding error to anyone who has seen faulty web pages (all of us). Why not just use a bolded asterisk??? 7. At the top, the link to linux.conf.au does not work. Was there any testing at all??? The destination underneath is not the same as the displayed text neither. The www (and the trailing slash for directories) should be on all href= links. 8. The main page link Membership goes to the Membership Database which is not the same thing, and confusing to users. Closer reading of the Membership Database page does tell how to join. Surely if the aim is to get new members, this means there should be a How to Join link right on the front page. 9. The new member sign-up page is a bit wacky - it displays the log-in boxes for existing members to log-on (and stuff about forgot your password) at the SAME time as displaying the form where new members can join. This is nutty from a user's point of view. 10. In some browsers, the mouse rollover text includes a display of leading spaces, which looks weird to the user. The values in the alt= tags need to be reviewed on all pages. 11. On the Membership Database page, clicking Home shows the same page again, and does not go to the home page of Linux Australia. Very confusing to users, and goes against the accepted meaning of Home. === -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [Linux-aus] RE: [SLUG] New website rocks!
Stuart Cooper said: I just tried to go there again (http://www.linux.org.au) and it's reverting to http://old.linux.org.au// Maybe the new server is down-- it couldn't handle the SLUGdot effect!! yes, under the SLUGdot effect it has slowed to the pace of a snail :) (not really - but i couldn't resist :) Temporary (10 min) problem while Anand implemented a cool feature of if a 404 is it, it goes and tries the old site before giving the user a 404. Basically a make everything work now fix. Real cool. All healthy again now. -- Stewart Smith ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.flamingspork.com -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [Linux-aus] Re: [SLUG] New website rocks!
Paul Robinson said: http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1uri=http%3A//www.linux.org.au/ Nothing major from the report, but since it's pushing the standards compliance it's good to pass this test. Yes... we usually have (during the devel cycle). Although... the only bits that are broken on this test come from the RSS feed. I'll go fix the RSS stuff over the weekend need to beat it into submission :) (everything else should be fine :) -- Stewart Smith ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.flamingspork.com -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] New website rocks!
quote who=Pia Smith http://www.linux.org.au Rock on Australia, Phwoar! Sweet! ROCK ON AUSTRALIA! - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2005: Canberra, Australiahttp://linux.conf.au/ Whoever wrote [the Twisted documentation] uses a vivid and interesting style of prose which triggers pleasure. - Francois Pinard -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] New website rocks!
Looks great and works fine in Firefox 0.9. Checked it in IE 6 SP1 and I can't click on any link or select text on the left hand half of the front page. Looks like a div is overlaying it. This wouldn't be a problem except the people we're trying to move away from windows would most likely be using IE. (exact version is 6.0.2800.1106 if anyone else can confirm). HTH, Paul Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who="Pia Smith" http://www.linux.org.au Rock on Australia, Phwoar! Sweet! ROCK ON AUSTRALIA! - Jeff -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
RE: [SLUG] New website rocks!
Hi all, Yes, I can confirm under IE6 SP1 6.0.2800.1106 the left hand text is not selectable, but I have no probs with that as it shows up fine under view source. Nice site though. Cheers, Jill. -Original Message- From: Paul Robinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 17 September 2004 11:47 AM To: SLUG Cc: linux-aus Subject: Re: [SLUG] New website rocks! Looks great and works fine in Firefox 0.9. Checked it in IE 6 SP1 and I can't click on any link or select text on the left hand half of the front page. Looks like a div is overlaying it. This wouldn't be a problem except the people we're trying to move away from windows would most likely be using IE. (exact version is 6.0.2800.1106 if anyone else can confirm). HTH, Paul Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=Pia Smith http://www.linux.org.au Rock on Australia, Phwoar! Sweet! ROCK ON AUSTRALIA! - Jeff -- IMPORTANT NOTICES This email (including any documents referred to in, or attached, to this email) may contain information that is personal, confidential or the subject of copyright or other proprietary rights in favour of Aristocrat, its affiliates or third parties. This email is intended only for the named addressee. Any privacy, confidence, copyright or other proprietary rights in favour of Aristocrat, its affiliates or third parties, is not lost because this email was sent to you by mistake. If you received this email by mistake you should: (i) not copy, disclose, distribute or otherwise use it, or its contents, without the consent of Aristocrat or the owner of the relevant rights; (ii) let us know of the mistake by reply email or by telephone (+61 2 9413 6300); and (iii) delete it from your system and destroy all copies. Any personal information contained in this email must be handled in accordance with applicable privacy laws. Electronic and internet communications can be interfered with or affected by viruses and other defects. As a result, such communications may not be successfully received or, if received, may cause interference with the integrity of receiving, processing or related systems (including hardware, software and data or information on, or using, that hardware or software). Aristocrat gives no assurances in relation to these matters. If you have any doubts about the veracity or integrity of any electronic communication we appear to have sent you, please call +61 2 9413 6300 for clarification. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
RE: [SLUG] New website rocks!
I just tried to go there again (http://www.linux.org.au) and it's reverting to http://old.linux.org.au// Maybe the new server is down-- it couldn't handle the SLUGdot effect!! Stuart. Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] New website rocks!
yep, something killed it good whos hosting it, and what is it running on? (der linux, but hardware) Dean Stuart Cooper wrote: I just tried to go there again (http://www.linux.org.au) and it's reverting to http://old.linux.org.au// Maybe the new server is down-- it couldn't handle the SLUGdot effect!! Stuart. Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] New website rocks!
On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 02:06:26 +1000, Dean Hamstead wrote: yep, something killed it good I've just tried from three places: work, via connect.com.au, home, via Internode, and Zip's (Pacific) shell server (text only). All show the new page. Are you sure it's not a problem at your end? Cheers, John -- SCSI is *NOT* magic. There are *fundamental technical reasons* why it is necessary to sacrifice a young goat to your SCSI chain now and then. -- John Woods -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] New website rocks!
I was seeing the new site (hence earlier posts) but did, for about 30 mins, get redirected to old.linux.org.au.. The new site is now back up though. Paul John Clarke wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 02:06:26 +1000, Dean Hamstead wrote: yep, something killed it good I've just tried from three places: work, via connect.com.au, home, via Internode, and Zip's (Pacific) shell server (text only). All show the new page. Are you sure it's not a problem at your end? Cheers, John -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] New website rocks!
John Clarke wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 02:06:26 +1000, Dean Hamstead wrote: yep, something killed it good I've just tried from three places: work, via connect.com.au, home, via Internode, and Zip's (Pacific) shell server (text only). All show the new page. Are you sure it's not a problem at your end? I also saw it revert to the old pages. I wouldn't describe the new site as something that 'rocks'. What's a geek's definition of 'rocks' in the context of web sites ? :-) Oh that question is prob something thats best for a slug-chat :-) Mike -- Michael Lake Chemistry, Materials Forensic Science, UTS Ph: 9514 1725 Fx: 9514 1460 -- UTS CRICOS Provider Code: 00099F DISCLAIMER: This email message and any accompanying attachments may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, use, disseminate, distribute or copy this message or attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender expressly, and with authority, states them to be the views the University of Technology Sydney. Before opening any attachments, please check them for viruses and defects. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] New website rocks!
NOW its working. it was working this morning, but when i saw the post that it was down and so i checked it and had the same result here at work we area connected via commindico 1 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms 172.16.2.254 2 10 ms15 ms 10 ms eth1-bdr3.pen.pnc.com.au [203.91.245. 315 ms 10 ms16 ms eth4-bdr2.pen.pnc.com.au [203.91.225. 463 ms * 78 ms 105.54.220.203.comindico.com.au [203. 546 ms79 ms * fe0-0.wsr01-stge-pth.comindico.com.au 8.55] 663 ms78 ms78 ms eftel-link.pth.comindico.com.au [203. 762 ms63 ms 297 ms indigo-gw.per.dft.net.au [202.61.225. 862 ms79 ms 109 ms digital.linux.org.au [202.0.185.5] thats pretty close Dean John Clarke wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 02:06:26 +1000, Dean Hamstead wrote: yep, something killed it good I've just tried from three places: work, via connect.com.au, home, via Internode, and Zip's (Pacific) shell server (text only). All show the new page. Are you sure it's not a problem at your end? Cheers, John -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [Web-team] Re: [SLUG] New website rocks!
First of all, thanks for the feedback - it is appreciated Brian Robson said: The idea of having a new website for LA is great, but this new website does not ROCK at all. It has serious design and usability errors, a few of which are outlined below. But these are easily fixed. I wouldn't really call them too serious... but you're right, they are easily fixed. We've tried (over the past few weeks/months/whatever) to fix up most issues with standards compliance and consistency across rendering engines (this is tricky). Some of the smaller things have escaped this initial deployment - but hey, when you release something to a wide audience - you instantly get a set of good bug reports :) SLUGGers should not be deluded - good web sites only come from hard work, good content and attention to detail (just like programming) and not from having graphics designers using the latest fashion in typefaces and colour schemes. A good website is not made by deluding oneself that your own site is the best, and that critism is inappropriate or the critic must be a nasty person. Exactly. We've tried to keep to these principles with the new LA site. Of course, some things slip through - but they're easily fixed :) A lot of hard work has gone into this one :) Designing website is now a technology taught at TAFE (there are heaps of books on usability) and has not been a guru craft or a black art since 1998. Wages for people who build build sites have fallen from $130 per hour to $30 per hour. But *good* sites that are standards compliant, cross-rendering engine and compatible with accessibility stuff is hard. People still get paid very well for being able to do this. I'm not an expert, and either is most of the other people working on the team - but we do know some, and they've been invaluable over the development period of giving us some assistance when they can. I strongly encourage experts to help us :) contributions are welcome! 1. The logo on the main page can be clicked, and when it is, it displays the SAME page again. Whilst it is normal for the logo when clicked to return to the home page or all subsidiary pages, this is a big no-no on the main page. All textbooks on usability recommend against having anything which simply displays the same page, as users find it very confusing. Good argument - but point is arguable... consistency across each page? Hrrm... one for thought. May change it... not sure... 2. None of the images are sized with width= and height= tags. This causes the page to jump around while it's loading, and this is even more annoying on dial up lines and on the first visit. The worst example is the main logo, because it's above the fold on the first page. Yes - this is a known flaw with the current layout. I plan to fix this by going through with id's and css foo sometime soon. It was not deemed a show stopper. 3. The Linux Australia title includes a trailing space. Bug - will be fixed. 4. The menu choice at the top left includes links to things on the site and off the site. This is bad practice (a) it confuses the users and (b) Do your really want to provide links for your users to leave your site at the top of your main page. (you are a dill if you do). (top right i hope you mean... unless some bug has crept in :) These 'external' sites are actually run by linux australia. Linux.conf.au comes under our banner (even though it is very much delegated to the lca organisers). We also run the opensource.org.au domain. We don't see these to be problematic - far from it, we see them as useful links into the .au open source space. 5. The font at the very bottom of the page is far too small. It's only minor info to be sure, but the font is still too small. If it's not to be read, then simply take it off. Also, this bit has weird added spaces which are just confusing and do not add to the enjoyment. Bug has crept in - someone changed the CSS to have a hard font size of 9. Will fix this to be a relative size. 6. Under the heading Sept 10th, RSS, there is a symbol, which is perhaps trying to look like a diamond replacing a dot point. It's made out of the gt and lt characters. In fact it looks weird, like a coding error to anyone who has seen faulty web pages (all of us). Why not just use a bolded asterisk??? Will examine - the RSS stuff has gone through a couple of revisions and we're still getting everything working just right. 7. At the top, the link to linux.conf.au does not work. Was there any testing at all??? The destination underneath is not the same as the displayed text neither. The www (and the trailing slash for directories) should be on all href= links. Currently fixed. Was a fault in the migration process (not as easy as you'd think). 8. The main page link Membership goes to the Membership Database which is not the same thing, and confusing to users. Closer reading of the Membership Database page does tell how to join.
Re: [SLUG] New website rocks!
someone training for user support {:-) wrote:
Are you sure it's not a problem at your end?
ROFL.
Nope, it was definitely a site problem.
Working now.
Definitely slow.
I preferred the old one myself. There wasn't this question of where to
find stuff?.
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Wombat Outdoor Adventures Bicycles, Computers, GIS, Printing,
Publishing
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Re: [Linux-aus] Re: [SLUG] New website rocks!
Paul Robinson said: Looks great and works fine in Firefox 0.9. rockin! Checked it in IE 6 SP1 and I can't click on any link or select text on the left hand half of the front page. Looks like a div is overlaying it. This wouldn't be a problem except the people we're trying to move away from windows would most likely be using IE. (exact version is 6.0.2800.1106 if anyone else can confirm). Okay... thanks for the report. We're aware of some more issues with IE. It seems that IE can behave *very* differently depending on what version of Windows your running. I only have an NT4 license, so have been doing testing on it. It looks like i'm going to have to get an XP one just for this. We are currently investigating this issue though, and it will be fixed shortly. Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=Pia Smith http://www.linux.org.au Rock on Australia, Phwoar! Sweet! ROCK ON AUSTRALIA! ahh yes... we rock. -- Stewart Smith ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.flamingspork.com -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [Web-team] Re: [SLUG] New website rocks!
On Fri, 2004-09-17 at 14:56 +1000, Stewart Smith wrote: Yes. Will be clarified in the next memberdb release. Wit the main website largely done now (apart from fixups and maintenance) i should be able to spend more time getting memberdb up to scratch. In my defense - i'm only currently calling it version 0.2 :) Thank you very much for your valuable feedback - it is much appreciated. Any chance you could make the source available? That way you can get patches from web-ninjas everywhere to make it better. James. -- James Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [Web-team] Re: [SLUG] New website rocks!
James Gregory said: Any chance you could make the source available? That way you can get patches from web-ninjas everywhere to make it better. This probably does make sense, yes. We'll discuss this within ctte/web team - i don't forsee any objections, probably just do a quick check to make sure there's nothing in the history that needs protecting. Since (very occationally) we need to restrict parts of the website (namely sections of minutes) - often for legal reasons - we may have to work something out there. We keep the site in tla (GNU Arch), so publishing an archive is easy (mmm... merges :) Will keep you posted. -- Stewart Smith ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.flamingspork.com -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
