Re: [RCSE] porpoising solutions???
Just a couple things to check Dave . You shouldn't have to run noseheavy , I don't have an Xterminator but it's been my experience that recommended CG's are usually at least a touch on the conservative side . Something else is most likely wrong as you suspect . I would return to the recommended CG and look elsewhere for corrections . Is there anything loose in the fuse ? , more specifically is the battery secure ? Usually more often a power plane problem ( huge empty fuse for batteries to roll around in ) . But I had to ask . Variable CG make you chase the plane around the sky rather erratically stall/dive , stall/dive ... - usually can't be trimmed at any speed , changes every time the plane changes attitude . Loose servo mounts ? Control rod/cable bind ? Servo centering problem ? Bottom line - does the elevator/vtail surfaces return(center) to the exact same place when moved up full throw compared to down full throw . Don't rule out poor servo percision without first checking . That one will drive you nuts . If it looked OK mechanically then look to alignment .Can you trim it to fly level at a slow speed but it slowly porpoises at any faster speed (launch speed or dive) . Check your decalage - the relative alignment (incidence) of the wing and stab/vtail . If you notice your elevators are flying with some down trim at cruise speed then try to spacer up the trailing edge of the wing . 1/16" at a time until the elevator(s) cruise at level ( minimum drag ) . If this was (part of) the problem you should notice a wider speed range for a given trim setting now , and a longer glide . It's usually trainer type planes that are designed with extra positive incidence - that makes the plane sort of auto-recover from a dive . Then there's the dive test ... well it should be made stable before that ... Hope that made sense , Wayne RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Rude ? Who?
To Whom It may concern The deal is. That Friday before the contest there were winches set up at the east end of the field... The turn arounds where near the landing zone.. Everything was ok, It wasn't the CASL guys.. This was the pilots responsibility. Fo rthe most part it was working well. That is until some pilot launched when my friend Gary was landing. The winch pilot didn't clear the launch area. He launched and ripped the Saphire just ahead of the tail. It was trash.. I was surprised that the pilot that winched didn't even step up... At least to say he was sorry... He knows who he is.. And he will have that karma to deal with... Charlie - Original Message - From: "Rick Brown and Jill Wiest" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 7:33 PM Subject: [RCSE] Rude ? Who? bobless wrote: Must sell because a rude gentleman at the Southwest Classic launched while landing and it got tangled up in the winch line. Or does anyone have a fuselage for sale? I guess a talk with the organizers of the SWC are in order. They obviously should not set up so that the landing zones and landing approach are directly through the launch area. Or maybe they should just not allow 'rude' gentlemen to 'launch'. Or should that be 'land' RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [RCSE] porpoising solutions???
My experience has been that most FF models (this includes R/C sailplanes) are designed with too much decalage. I think the theory is: "better safe than sorry" - you can survive too much - not so too little. Or, maybe: "if a little is good, more is better." Flying stabs eliminates the problem. Regis -Original Message- From: Scobie Puchtler or Sarah Felstiner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 5:52 PM To: Dave Seay; RCSE Subject: RE: [RCSE] porpoising solutions??? Dave writes: I just took a close look at my LB2 and it looks like I definitely have some 'up' where I mounted the tail. Actually you do have to have SOME 'up', as you call it. That 'up' that you see IS the decalage angle. And SOME decalage is a fundamental requirement of ANY conventional glider, in fact that is the most basic purpose of having the horizontal tailplane: to keep the wing from diving (also can be thought of as: to keep the wing at some useful angle of attack). On all but the most carefully designed flying wing foils, a foil (your wing) producing lift also produces positive pitching moment, meaning the leading edge of the foil wants to go DOWN. Release any conventional glider without its horiz. stab attached and you will see this effect IMMEDIATELY,(don't actually try this, just trust me). A stab mounted at a NEUTRAL angle will give some very temporary relief to this problem, but until that stab is ACTIVELY holding the rear of the fuselage down by having it's trailing edge higher than its leading edge relative to the airflow, your glider is gonna dive bigtime. If it's mounted with too MUCH angle (Stab t.e. high) then your glider is going to constantly repeat one mild stall after another (porpoising).The trick is to have the RIGHT amount of this angle. Too much and you porpoise, Too little and you dive. Either problem can be crudely corrected by shoving weight all over the place and trimming the elevator like mad, but these are fundamentally bad solutions because they add, well, weight and drag, not to mention their effect on maneuverability. How do you correct this w/o destroying the tail given the whole thing is balsa? I guess I could try to cut the tail off. I am not familiar with the exact construction details of the LB2, but it MIGHT be helpful, depending on how it's put together, to remember that you can change the angle of the tailplane OR the angle of the wing. Is the wing mounted in such a way as to be shim-able in it's mount? If so, shim the rear of the wing up a bit and test (this will have the same effect as bringing the t.e. of the stab down. Remember, it's the relative angle BETWEEN these two surfaces that counts). Shimming the wing is actually a great way to experiment, if it is doable on your plane, because it's much more changeable than rebuilding your tail six times to get things just right. Good luck. Scobie in Seattle RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: How can beginners locate a sailplane club?
Thanks to all the folks who replied to my post here and on the rec.models.rc.soaring newsgroup, I've been able to add several top-notch links and suggestions, and I now feel a lot more comfortable that I am providing information that gives a beginner a really good chance of finding any sailplane clubs in his/her area. See the "Searching for a Sailplane Club in Your Area" section of my "Sailplane Links" page for details. Thanks again! David Cole Fort Worth, Texas http://home.flash.net/~davecole/RC_Sailplanes.htm -- Site devoted to beginners in our hobby RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [RCSE] Re: Wings fs (rude?)
"Real men don't" read instructions or rules. (Unless they are looking for a loophole.) Regis -Original Message- From: Dick Barker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 10:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: Wings fs (rude?) Must be a GPS thing but I am getting private email saying I shouldn't mention a rule number without quoting the rule. It didn't know that anyone would enter a contest without knowing the rules, but here goes: 10.1.e Right-of-Way Rule. A sailplane attached to the launch equipment and therefore in the process of being launched has the right of way over sailplanes in flight. ... I would pasted in the remediation portion if the AMA had not locked out "select and copy" in the pdf document. Dick RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Right of way?
Good point on the rules Dick,, Thanks It was not an organized deal. I understand that's a rule, But before I put one of my gliders in the air I would clear the area.. In the contest I saw many times where the winch master held up launching because of a glider trying to thermal low and in line with the winches... Or the glider was simply trying to make it over to the landing zone This is good judgment!! And he took the proper precaution to avoid a collision. I think that people need to make exceptions to the rules. and use some common since. Rules are made by people Doesn't always mean they apply in every case.. Charlie
[RCSE] Lasoar 650 For Sale
Lasoar 650 electric high performance F5B type thermal duration glider for sale. Obeche covered 92" wing, Kevlar fuse, flying stab. Has throttle, elevator, rudder, flaps, ailerons. Aveox F7LMR brushless motor with controller and Grauptner folding prop makes this plane go up very fast on seven cells. Never damaged, looks and flies great. Photos available. I have about $900 in it and will sell for $450 without receiver or battery. This is a repost as previous deal fell thru and since my computer crashed I lost the names of the other two people who were interested.Dave Clark 520-472-8020 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Right of way
There are several questions concerning launch right of way. I like to see this.. I do have to disagree with the flying plane having a better view of the launch area. When flying, it isn't always easy to look around when close to the ground.. While the launch pilot has time and can focus down the line. He doesn't have to launch at a given time. The flying pilot doesn't have the time. And he is committed to land.. In full scale, the glider always has the right of way. The glider can't go around. This isn't saying that model gliders should be treated the same. But It is something to think about.. Who has the most options??? Another point I would like to make is that this has nothing to do with a contest. This was the pilots that were out practicing. There was no organization And it was crowded. I chose to stop flying. It was just to crazy. So this was something I think all the pilots should have been looking out for. Each other!! The glider that got damaged was close to the end of the winch line. and was low coming in.. I think if the winching pilot would have been looking. He would have seen the glider approaching.. Like I said, It was very crowded. I had to be very careful when launching on my short upstart I never launched until I was certain that it was clear. Most of the time I would have to hold for a minute.. Also there were many gliders/handlaunch that were flying over the winch lines. So people knew it was hectic. I don't want to change the rules. But I think its a good thing to bring up the awareness of what could happen. Charlie
[RCSE] Crossing the launch area....
"Circling in the launch area is dumb, dangerous, and selfish. On rare occasions, it may be necessary to cross the launch area when out of lift, altitude, and ideas but the pilot does so at his own risk." -Chuck Anderson and at risk to everyone else trying to launch, too! It is never "necessary" to cross the launch area at low altitude. Just "be a man", :-) and accept that you blew it and land out instead of selfishly delaying the launch cycle, risking a midair or fouled winch line or even possible injury to others. A pilot should be smart enough to know when it's time to head out if he or she is working a part of the sky that places the launch area between the glider and the landing area. Keith M Hawaii RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: Soaring V1 #2277
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[RCSE] Right of way
The rulebook rule was instituted to provide some orderliness to apotentially chaotic situation. However, it only holds in sanctionedcompetition. Non competition situations must rely on common sense andgood judgment Ok guys.. It seems like my posts are not going through.. This whole thing has gotten out of hand.. Look at the statement above! What happened at the classic was not during competition. This was a practice! The rule does not apply!! Common since does apply here.. The glider in question was in the launch area near the turn around.. Not good judgment.. But so where many others. Again. Not good judgment! The pilot winching didn't clear the lines... Not good judgment!! I guess the thing that bothers me is the fact that the pilot winching didn't even have the consideration to at least confront the other pilot to say something! Like sorry about your glider I didn't see you ,, Or anything.!! I know we loose models in this sport. I think it's a decent thing to show the other pilot some respect for the loss. Not , oh well to bad, wasn't my fault!! And avoid it all!! Like I said. Its his karma.. Not mine! Charlie
Re: [RCSE] Excitement at aerotow event today
Someone once told me that it is not the span of a plane so much as the viewable width dimension of the wing that makes it able to be seen easily. Like the way a plane can become near invisible to the eye as it flys directly toward or away from you. Still the same span but very hard to see. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 02/18/2001 7:34:40 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Can anyone see a 5.33 meter plane at 3400 feet ? Mike I seem to recall that human eyes can resolve one minute of arc, so the 17 minutes of arc subtended by 5.33 meters at 3400 feet is well within that range. Theoretically, you could see a 1 foot disc at that distance, though I'd imagine atmospheric effects may diminish that (I'd probably have wished I'd reined in my HLG before it got that high :) Bill Wingstedt RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Welded rings?
John, In the US, Ace Hardware often has some. I have never found any at Hope Depot or Lowe's "home improvement" stores. Try a "real" hardware store. For another idea, buy some appropriate sized chain, and get the store to cut the links for you into individual ovals. Chain is already welded and rated for some strength. Certainly more than the 200 # rating many of our winch lines are. Jon Stone - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 8:12 PM Subject: [RCSE] Welded rings? Some time ago I saw a post which lead me to a source for 3/4" welded steel rings, ideal for the tow ring. Can anyone tell me where to find this type of ring. I lost my bookmark and would like to order some. Thanks, John Hayes
[RCSE] Re: Welded rings?
In a message dated 2/18/01 9:00:51 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: For another idea, buy some appropriate sized chain, and get the store to cut the links for you into individual ovals. It's always fun to watch the clerk's face when you ask for this :-) Lenny Keer RMSA, Colorado RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Looking for AGR Models
Does anyone have information on how I can get a hold of Mike at ARG Models? The e-mail I have no longer works. I'm looking to purchase a 60" EPP winghe used to make called the Whiplash. Anybody have an unbuilt kit you'd want to get rid of? Thanks! All the best, Steve PasierbCompetition DirectorBALTIMORE AREA SOARING SOCIETYwww.soarmd.org Because e-mail can be altered electronically, the integrity of this communication cannot be guaranteed.
