Re: [RCSE] Re: Beginner Sailplane recommendation
Wood Crafters 06 Grand Championship top ten results. Congratulations Guys. 1. Tom Tock 6700 2. Paul Wiese 6505 3. Marc Gellart 6291 4. Tom Sculley 6007 5. Ray Hayes 5823 6. Tim Wolf 5797 7. Bob Robinson 5773 8. Bill Friend 5743 9. Joe Albridge 5562 10. Bill Grenoble 5508 Ray Hayes http://www.skybench.com Home of Wood Crafters - Original Message - From: Ed Whyte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Soaring@airage.com Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: Beginner Sailplane recommendation Ok, lets get down to the two standards of the industry for a trainer. First off it should be recognized that building the glider will teach the beginner most of the basics and give him or here the knowledge of what to look for in a future kit or RTF. The Lee Renaud / Airtronics Olympic II and the Olympic 650, I believe have been used to get more glider pilots started in the right direction. They are inexpensive easy to build fly great and can be repaired if something should go wrong. The Oly II is larger has better visibility and is a little more forgiving than the 2 Meter 650. The Oly II is available from Ray Hays at www.skybench.com the Oly 650 will be available shortly from www.aerosphereonline.com EW. Ed Whyte WHYTE WINGS 7207 Cornerstone Drive Caledonia, MI 49316-7879 616 698 8668 - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Soaring@airage.com Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 9:00 PM Subject: [RCSE] Re: Beginner Sailplane recommendation I see it now, the suggestions are going to keep escalating to higher-performing and more expensive planes. Forgetting that the user is going to be a youngster first-timer. And suggesting slope oriented planes for thermalling seems weird to me. Not that it's impossible, but because it makes little sense to me in the context of the target user. Very inexperienced newbies I know of tend to need lightweight gasbag planes, and preferably poly ships that are as stable as possible. You guys seem to forget that most of you are elite flyers and high performance ships are your normal stock in trade. I work the lower end myself, and am quite happy with 2-meter 2-channel poly floaters with inexpensive gear. I think that that direction is a good one for beginners as well. If you put an EPP nose on a Gentle Lady fuse and traded the GL wing for one with an EPP leading edge, carbon tube spar and main cores of styrene, I think you'd have my perfect trainer. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Great models, greatly reduced prices
Top quality Models for sale! someat around 25% off what they cost new Ican take Digi pictures for serious inquirys! 1)Calypso Cobra( mh-32) 124"span $850 new in box 2)Molded F3B Eagle (rg-15) 114"span Mark Allen built! $650 3)K-2 composite(mh-32)130"span $500 new in box K-2 composite ( MH-32) ( light version), 130" $500 new in box 4)Calypso Cobra cross tail retrofit with extended tips 127" $500 5)Thermic XL4 meter(mh-32)perfect condition, flown 10 times or under. $950 6)Protostar composite (rg-15)original F3B design.117" $500flown 10 times or under. 7)Pike Brio v-tail 120" span or with wing extentions 130" spanperfect condition, $1000 no servos, $350 extra with servo and harness 8)Bandit 54"composite (rg-14)? fun sloper $250 new in box. 9) Tragi 700 117"?( RG-15) $800 new in box 10) Tragi 701 (mh-32)124" $ 850 flown 10 flights 11) Tragi 702 ( RG-15A) 122" $850in perfect condition,,, flown 2 seasons [EMAIL PROTECTED] .net
[RCSE] Where and When? MIdSouth is gonna be Spectacular!
http://louisvillesoaring.org/content/view/105/43/ On June 30th, some of the best pilots in the Midwest, MidSouth and East will be stepping on an incredible, and huge flat grass field to fly some Man On Man, Seeded, thermal soaring. There'll be tents and vendors and food, and music (after). But mostly there will be tuned up winches and great air with the room to work the low saves out to glory! The slots are filling up fast, so don't be left out. We are a small club (but powerful!) so early registration is important for our planning. This is the highlight of this year's OVSS series, so head to the website and get your registrations filled out. See you there! Gordy
[RCSE] Receivers for sale
Title: Receivers for sale 4 Airtronics 92765 7-channel receivers w/old style connectors. $42 each shipped. 3 Airtronics 92785 8-channel receivers w/old style connectors. $42 each shipped. First come, first served.
[RCSE] Airtronics Receivers For sale
Title: Airtronics Receivers For sale 4 Airtronics 92765 7-channel receivers w/old style connectors. $42 each shipped. 3 Airtronics 92785 8-channel receivers w/old style connectors. $42 each shipped. First come, first served.
RE: [RCSE] Re: Beginner Sailplane recommendation
Guys, I recognize that the OlyII and 650 are great first planes for getting started. My first sailplane back in 1977 was an Airtronics Square Soar. But today kids don't seem to have the time or gumption to build their own trainer. Perhaps it's too many competing priorities in their lives or that they've gotten used to instant gratification, or that their parents plan too much of their lives each day. Here's a fairly typical story in our area - one that I've experienced several times myself when responding to inquiries from parents and kids. Once I had a very nice woman come to our field with her son. They watched the sailplanes for hours and were entranced. The Mom: Wow, those are really beautiful, she says, my son would like to get into this. Soaring guy: I'd be glad to help. I'm with the Seattle Area Soaring Society. We have a trainer night every Wednesday afternoon. You should come down and we'll get him started. The Mom: Oh, that won't work, he's got soccer practice that day. Soaring guy: Ok, well, why don't we meet at the field on Thursday and... The Mom: Well, he's got a Soccer game on Thursday Soaring guy: Ok, how about Tuesday? The Mom: Well, maybe, but I'll have to check. His father has visitation that day. Soaring guy: Ok, why don't we meet up this Weekend. There will be a few of out here and we'll get out the traine... The Mom: Hmmm. Yeah, I don't know...we've got church on Saturday morning, then he has bible study afterwards. So that would be tight. Then Sunday he has this youth group meeting... You can just see the sunken, hollowed-out look on the poor kid's face. He's only 13 and already has so many obligations. He knows he'll never get a moment's peace to dream up his own fun (like most of us did). His whole life is programmed. Even his weekend is shot. That's just no way to grow up if you ask me. If he's lucky, he'll grow up to be a mid-level cog in some big corporation, reporting up through a dense and Byzantine hierarchy. That's the fate that awaits kids who are raised like this. One thing for sure is that very few prospective young sailplane fliers can be bothered to build their own plane. Our goal here is to get him/her flying. Maybe he will enjoy it enough to get more involved and cause his parents to reprioritize his schedule. The important thing is to get him in the air with some successful flights asap. One thing you can seem to get parents to do these days is to throw money at their children. So, the ARFs make the most sense. You give the parent a shopping list, which they will dutifully purchase, then meet during one of the rare few hours the kid has open. Hopefully, they have a good enough experience that they will keep coming back. --Jim - Original Message - From: Ed Whyte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Soaring@airage.com Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: Beginner Sailplane recommendation Ok, lets get down to the two standards of the industry for a trainer. First off it should be recognized that building the glider will teach the beginner most of the basics and give him or here the knowledge of what to look for in a future kit or RTF. The Lee Renaud / Airtronics Olympic II and the Olympic 650, I believe have been used to get more glider pilots started in the right direction. They are inexpensive easy to build fly great and can be repaired if something should go wrong. The Oly II is larger has better visibility and is a little more forgiving than the 2 Meter 650. The Oly II is available from Ray Hays at www.skybench.com the Oly 650 will be available shortly from www.aerosphereonline.com EW. Ed Whyte WHYTE WINGS 7207 Cornerstone Drive Caledonia, MI 49316-7879 616 698 8668 - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Soaring@airage.com Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 9:00 PM Subject: [RCSE] Re: Beginner Sailplane recommendation I see it now, the suggestions are going to keep escalating to higher-performing and more expensive planes. Forgetting that the user is going to be a youngster first-timer. And suggesting slope oriented planes for thermalling seems weird to me. Not that it's impossible, but because it makes little sense to me in the context of the target user. Very inexperienced newbies I know of tend to need lightweight gasbag planes, and preferably poly ships that are as stable as possible. You guys seem to forget that most of you are elite flyers and high performance ships are your normal stock in trade. I work the lower end myself, and am quite happy with 2-meter 2-channel poly floaters with inexpensive gear. I think that that direction is a good one for beginners as well. If you put an EPP nose on a Gentle Lady fuse and traded the GL wing for one with an EPP leading edge, carbon tube spar and main cores of styrene, I think you'd have my perfect trainer. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to
[RCSE] NIB 4M Graupner Grob 103 For Sale
Title: NIB 4M Graupner Grob 103 For Sale Ive got a brand new in box Graupner 4M Grob 103. Its typical German quality with sheeted foam core wings, FG fuse. $550 + shipping. Its a huge box so itll probably have to go via Greyhound bus. Email for further details.
[RCSE] A defense of training beginners via slope
Someone pointed out that slope foamies were a 'weird' choice for teaching beginners, and while I'll admit that I momentarily forgot that RCSE is 95% about thermal flying, a fine and noble pursuit in itself, I think that giving beginners their first flights at a slope has some benefits. First and foremost, the lift is always 'on.' While you can glide for awhile after launch at a thermal site if no lift is found, lift is abundant on a slope. Another benefit is that the glider can be flown close to the pilot, and even hovered into the wind. It isn't even necessary to fly the glider toward the beginner pilot, so they can learn the habit of moving the sticks opposite its apparent movement after they get used to flying normally. It isn't typical to spend much time flying toward yourself at the slope anyhow. Flights also tend to last longer at the slope, so a lot of practice can be packed into one session. Obviously all kinds of gliders can be flown at the slope, depending on wind conditions. Jeff RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: A defense of training beginners via slope
I was the one that said it seemed weird. What I meant was, using slope oriented planes for teaching flatland thermalling seemed weird, mostly because the slope planes tend to have shorter spans and fly faster. While there are polyhedral slope planes and you can fly regular flatland ships for slope, the great majority of slope planes are flat winged aileron and elevator ships or more sophisticated full house setups. Neither of which necessarily are optimal for flatland thermalling training. I understand and agree with your point about the benefits of learning on the slope in terms of total airtime. Though that never worked for me; I am based in very flat territory and get maybe two days a year where I can travel to some place with even a mediocre slope. Those times I've been to the slope, I have never had a successful flight, in over ten years, sorry to say. I know am just doing it all wrong, as I never even get into the lift band, and every flight winds up a long walk halfway down the hill or more. Those guys making the long LSF times on their local slopes make me insanely jealous.:-) Anyhow, my sorry experience is not germane to the initial post that led to this discussion, which was, if I have it right, a guy wants a good ARF design for teaching a beginner youngster how to thermal soar. So recommending slope planes or slope flying is just not germane to the particular situation. Right tool for the right job and all that. have a great flying day Mark S
[RCSE] Sailaire parts for sale
Title: Sailaire parts for sale I have a set of laser cut wing ribs and a wing plan set, and also a set of stabs with bell crank for $40 + shipping. First come, first served of course. I hope you had a great holiday weekend. gv
[RCSE] F3J in the Rockies Results
Sorry if this posted more than once - my posts seemed to go into the bit bucket - probably because of the tables I put in with results. I have since posted the results on the RMSA web page - see the links below. It was 2 days of brutal competition, with very challenging conditions. We had the US senior and most of the US Junior team there, as well as the Canadian team coming down for a warmup before the worlds. We also had folks from Chicago, Phoenix and North Carolina there. It was typical Colorado - with big lift and big sink. Now normally Denver is not a windy place - but it seems every time we put on an F3J event we get the wind. This year was no exception. Day 1 was beautiful - but the wind averaged 18mph all day long with gusts well above that. The good news is that it stayed the same direction all day so we didn't have to move the flightline. In the late afternoon the gusts took their toll on the scoring tent and bent it to pieces. Shortly after that we quit after 5 rounds. We started up again Sunday morning and while it started out breezy, the morning had some excellent flying conditions, but if you made bad decisions - the sink dragon was there to punish you. We flew 3 more prelim rounds in the morning and then broke for lunch and prepared for the flyoffs. The following top 6 pilots made the flyoffs: 1. Skip Miller 2. Joe Wurts 3. Robert Lewan 4. Rolf Oetter 5. John Kappus 6. Joseph Newcomb The detailed preliminary scores can be found at: http://www.rmsadenver.com/Scores/2006/f3j-p/f3jrp.htm After lunch and before the Flyoffs started the conditions deteriorated rapidly. It became windier than Saturday and we were guessing that we were approaching the FAI limits. But it's a flyoff - so the top 6 pilots wrangled towers and callers and prepared for battle. If you had enough guts and went far enough downwind, but not so far as to fail to get back, you could get your time. But for many - that was not the case. You can see from the scores that much pain was dealt out in the flyoffs. But the killing blow was dealt by Joe Wurts in the third round, who snuck away trying to avoid the sink directly on the field and managed to get his time while his nearest competitor (including reflights) was only able to get less than 50% of his time and many much less. This put Joe far in the lead. The fourth round of the flyoffs found everyone pretty much getting a bunch of time, but the wind had switched almost 90 degrees making launches a scary proposition and causing many line problems. We had a choice of turning the flight line into the wind, or calling it quits - and after a pilot vote we chose to end the event. The final order was: 1. JOE WURTS 2. ROLF OETTER 3. BOB LEWAN 4. JOSEPH NEWCOMB 5. SKIP MILLER 6. JOHN KAPPUS The details of the final standings of the Flyoffs can be found at: http://www.rmsadenver.com/Scores/2006/f3j-f/f3jrf.htm Jim Monaco US F3J Team Manager 2006 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] A defense of training beginners via slope
Jeff, You are spot on about teaching at the slope except for one small part. Actually you fly back at yourself a lot on the slope if you fly back and forth along the face of the slope. That is one of the really great teaching aspects of going to the slope for training purpose along with the other fine points you already made. When training a new pilot on the slope and with the plane flying back down the slope towards the pilot, if the plane turns towards the slope you can teach them to push the stick towards the slope so the plane will fly away. I usually demonstrate this to them a couple of times to show them what I mean. I also use a similar approach when landing coming at you, but use the wing as the guide. I tell the student if the plane is flying at you, to always push the stick in the direction of the low wing to bring it back to level. After I get them feeling comfortable with those tips, I explain that you have to visualize yourself setting in the plane. The nice thing about the slope is that a lot of the time you can teach a pilot the basics of control in just one flight. Of course it is not at all hard to keep him in the air for 30 minutes to an hour or even longer. Not generally the case at the thermal field. See Ya, Pat McCleave Wichita KS - Original Message - From: Jeff Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Soaring@airage.com Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 1:12 PM Subject: [RCSE] A defense of training beginners via slope Someone pointed out that slope foamies were a 'weird' choice for teaching beginners, and while I'll admit that I momentarily forgot that RCSE is 95% about thermal flying, a fine and noble pursuit in itself, I think that giving beginners their first flights at a slope has some benefits. First and foremost, the lift is always 'on.' While you can glide for awhile after launch at a thermal site if no lift is found, lift is abundant on a slope. Another benefit is that the glider can be flown close to the pilot, and even hovered into the wind. It isn't even necessary to fly the glider toward the beginner pilot, so they can learn the habit of moving the sticks opposite its apparent movement after they get used to flying normally. It isn't typical to spend much time flying toward yourself at the slope anyhow. Flights also tend to last longer at the slope, so a lot of practice can be packed into one session. Obviously all kinds of gliders can be flown at the slope, depending on wind conditions. Jeff RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] A defense of training beginners via slope
Less stressfull.Not to mention the humbling experience of the famous Walk of Shame - Original Message - From: Pat McCleave [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, May 29, 2006 6:50 pm Subject: Re: [RCSE] A defense of training beginners via slope Jeff, You are spot on about teaching at the slope except for one small part. Actually you fly back at yourself a lot on the slope if you fly back and forth along the face of the slope. That is one of the really great teaching aspects of going to the slope for training purpose along with the other fine points you already made. When training a new pilot on the slope and with the plane flying back down the slope towards the pilot, if the plane turns towards the slope you can teach them to push the stick towards the slope so the plane will fly away. I usually demonstrate this to them a couple of times to show them what I mean. I also use a similar approach when landing coming at you, but use the wing as the guide. I tell the student if the plane is flying at you, to always push the stick in the direction of the low wing to bring it back to level. After I get them feeling comfortable with those tips, I explain that you have to visualize yourself setting in the plane. The nice thing about the slope is that a lot of the time you can teach a pilot the basics of control in just one flight. Of course it is not at all hard to keep him in the air for 30 minutes to an hour or even longer. Not generally the case at the thermal field. See Ya, Pat McCleave Wichita KS - Original Message - From: Jeff Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Soaring@airage.com Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 1:12 PM Subject: [RCSE] A defense of training beginners via slope Someone pointed out that slope foamies were a 'weird' choice for teaching beginners, and while I'll admit that I momentarily forgot that RCSE is 95% about thermal flying, a fine and noble pursuit in itself, I think that giving beginners their first flights at a slope has some benefits. First and foremost, the lift is always 'on.' While you can glide for awhile after launch at a thermal site if no lift is found, lift is abundant on a slope. Another benefit is that the glider can be flown close to the pilot, and even hovered into the wind. It isn't even necessary to fly the glider toward the beginner pilot, so they can learn the habit of moving the sticks opposite its apparent movement after they get used to flying normally. It isn't typical to spend much time flying toward yourself at the slope anyhow. Flights also tend to last longer at the slope, so a lot of practice can be packed into one session. Obviously all kinds of gliders can be flown at the slope, depending on wind conditions. Jeff RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to soaring- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] A defense of training beginners via slope
Jeff Thompson wrote: ... and while I'll admit that I momentarily forgot that RCSE is 95% about thermal flying Try something more like 99.9% ;) Steve RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] F3J in the Rockies ...Sailplanes Flown???? Argh! :-)
We are happy that those who won, won, but everyone of them, when reading the results of a contest they didn't attend, would want to know who flew what :-) We don't win or lose a contest by ourselves...we have a partner who does the in the air part. Only fair it gets mentioned too :-) Please? Gordy :-) Hot in Louisville today
