Re: [RCSE] Diamond For Sale
I'm I too later for this bird? The Soaring Junkie At 05:31 PM 8/19/99 -0700, Thomas L. Akers wrote: >F3B Diamond (RnR produced wings) For Sale. > >Slightly Seasoned, but still just as fast as brand new. >5 Airtronics 141 for the wings and rudder. >Airtronics 161 for the elevator. > >Add a battery and receiver and start crankin' speed runs. > >$1,250 OBO > >Thomas Akers >Los Osos, CA >(805)528-5420 > > >RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Diamond for sale
Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: >> Anyone have a used Diamond for sale? Good condition, please. >I have one that has been flown in TD and F3F, RTF with RX, servos, battery, >ballast, etc. Red top, black bottom. Complete outfit. >$2500.00 >I'll pay shipping. I have one that has never been tainted by TD, and has actually been FLOWN IN F3B SPEED BY JOE WURTS! Yes it's true- this plane already has been taught how to go fast! It comes with the identical servos, ballast system and stress-cracks used by 2 out of three of our national team members, and sat in the grass in New York! (I didn't fly it because it seemed unfair) There never has been or ever will be another plane like this one! I'm only selling it because I have inside knowledge of upcoming planes that will not be available to you anyway. Asking only $2499.99* that's less than you would pay for a plane from some guy named "Gliderscum"! Unbelievable! *Shipping not included, plus a "small" fee for handling. John Roe Laguna Hills, Ca Team Illuminati "Because we say so" fnord fnord fnord RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Diamond (for sale)
In a message dated 99-08-05 14:58:51 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Anyone have a used Diamond for sale? Good condition, please. I have one that has been flown in TD and F3F, RTF with RX, servos, battery, ballast, etc. Red top, black bottom. Complete outfit. $2500.00 I'll pay shipping. Mark Navarre - RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Diamond
In a message dated 8/5/99 5:34:33 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > I'm a little confused here. Can somebody put me straight? > If these Diamonds are for the F3B Worlds would it not have been better > preparation to have been making them 6 mths or more ago so that the pilots > could be at one with them? Of course! But I know that for me, I operate at peak efficiency only when: 1.) I have too much work to do. 2.) I have impossible deadlines to meet. 3.) I have something to bitch about Bill Wingstedt RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Diamond
I'm a little confused here. Can somebody put me straight? If these Diamonds are for the F3B Worlds would it not have been better preparation to have been making them 6 mths or more ago so that the pilots could be at one with them? I've seen lots of comps won with inferior models because the pilots knew them well but far less the other way around. Yeah I know thumbs blah, blah but the best will tell you there is little to chose between the best thumbs so it doesn't hurt to look at the other parameters. Tell me I'm wrong (:-) Kevin -Original Message- From: Sal DeFrancesco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Walter Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 05 August 1999 17:40 Subject: Re: [RCSE] Diamond >At the risk of repeating myself, the Diamond is NOT FOR SALE! The moldes are owned by Gordon Jennings and he makes a few per year >for use of his team. I was simply making a comment on what they probably would cost if he needed to compensate for the labor and >materials to make these for sale. Actually the materials cost is not the major factor..it is the labor. It is not saleman's hype >because you cannot buy one! BTW...the stereo cable business is hype...very large profits...I know because I was involved in the high >end business. (Never cables!) The Diamond is a pain in ther butt to make in competiton quality. > >Walter Lynch wrote: > >> Other than using some of the more costly composite materials in its >> construction and being a little more careful about weight, etc. during lay >> up, I too cant see the justification of the super high cost. I guess there >> are people out there who will pay anything for a plane because some slaesman >> tells them it was manufactured by true artisans with the latest and greatest >> proprietary techniques that limit its production to 10 per year. Reminds me >> of the high end stereo kick I was on a few years back where you pay >> 100.00/ft for the "clear hyperlitz >> 6N pure copper bundled" speaker wire- "but it HAS to sound better, I paid >> 1500.00 for these speaker cables!" >> What is our HOBBY coming to? Walter >> -Original Message----- >> From: Richard Dow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Date: Thursday, August 05, 1999 2:35 AM >> Subject: [RCSE] Diamond >> >> Sal >> In an earlier post you said that the Diamond was a difficult plane to >> manufacture. You also said that the cost would be $2000 to $2500 per >> plane if they were sold to the general public. Since the molds already >> exists, why would it be that much more difficult to manufacture than say >> an Emerald? Also, having not seen a Diamond what would justify the high >> price? Inquiring minds want to know! >> >> Regards Rich >> >> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and >> "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >-- >Sal DeFrancesco >Northeast Sailplane Products >140 Kirby Lane >Williston, VT. 05495 >802-658-9482 > >Website: http://www.nesail.com > > >RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Diamond Factoids
Yo, Here are some things that are actually true about the Diamond: 1) I own the molds. Getting these molds was a simple process, involving beating planform data out of a notoriously procrastination prone yet highly skilled aircraft designer, followed by cubic dollar injections for CNC machining and careful polishing. 2) RnR polished the molds and made the Diamonds for the team for the 1997 F3B worlds. They did this on short notice, in the middle of the UPS strike, and without the chance to optimize the construction techniques or layup schedule. The planes averaged 84 oz. rtf and are holding up pretty well. They are, to date, pretty much the only Diamonds with a surface finish that can be described as a surface finish. 3) I got a wild hair 18 months ago to try and optimize the structural design. Kevlar skins, a pre-preg spar that fits oh-so nice with minimum spooge and a whole suite of other obvious and not so obvious tricks add up to a pretty light airframe. One major ingredient? Labor. There are only two ways to make cloth behave in a mold - drown it or tease it. Teasing is good for an ounce of resin and another hour in the layup process. Done out of love, let me assure you. Another trick is to make all the parts that go in the wing fit right. Dense rohacel weighs 5 lb/cu. foot. Light spooge (epoxy and microballoons) weighs 30 lb./cu. foot. Figure out how much weight goes into 150 square inches of bond area if the fit is loose or tight. (Hint: 1/32" of clearance requires about 1 oz. of spooge). 4) If Larry Jolly would like to sell me material kits for the Diamonds at $175, I'll take a few right now. Total material cost (wings, stabs, rudder, fuse) come in at just a bit under $350. For another pound heavier I could ditch the kevlar (and good riddance, I might add), go to a simple balsa shear web style spar and develop a love for boat cloth for the fuse. And save about $10 for every ounce that goes back in. 5) I am only building planes for the F3B team (at least the ones that elected to fly Diamonds), and for one extremely generous soul who donated a pile of dough to the F3B team fund. The amount of labor involved is not huge (about 22 hours for a complete parts set), but then again I haven't been going for much of a finish. Throw in a couple of hours for decent paint, another day for ordering materials, packing boxes and explaining over the phone that the pointy end is in the front, and now we're talking serious hours. 6) I'd like to find someone to make these things, but it's gonna be tough. They need to be able to figure out how to make a living at this (no small trick in itself), without allowing the quality to slip. They need to be receptive to making parts on short notice for a control freak, anytime the control freak wants them. They need to have enough reserve production and dollars so that when some piece of tooling dies or is killed, they can afford the time to put things right. A willingness to make perhaps 10 airplanes at cost every other year for team members is also a plus. You can see why I am so tempted to ditch the drudgery of electronic and software design and go into the high-tech field of epoxy slinging. 7) It's the pilot, stupid. And the builder, for that matter. The mantra "elite planes for the elite" got cranked up at F3J team selection and won't seem to die. Anybody can gear up for building molded planes - all it really takes is a little money and effort. Before I made my first Diamond I'd never seen it done before - the splayed guts from one or two molded airplanes were my starting point. After that the wing weight progression went like this: Carbon skins - 19.5 oz., 18.5, 18.0, 17.25, switch to Kevlar, 16.25, 16.0, 15.0, 14.0 (man, look at that bend on tow), 15.0 (present). No magic required. 8) Oh yeah, that Bozo Lontz guy that ratted out the existence of light Diamonds on the RCSE. Thanks, Phil. Yep, Phil is getting a Diamond. Of course, the fact that he has been living in my yard for 4 months helping to build team airplanes and shagging winch lines at practice might have helped a little. Thanks, Phil (not sarcastically spoken, this time). So, to summarize, the Diamond is being built for the purely for the amusement of the uber-pilots, with the added benefit of keeping the common man in his place. They will be commercially available one day, at a cost of $22,500, because the one guy on earth capable of this caliber of work doesn't want to share his toy with anyone. In particular, anyone outside of California. Oh wait, that was a summary of the rumors. The truth, short and sweet, is that the airplane is not available commercially at present. Don't ask. If an acceptible situation for producing the planes for sale arises, rest assured that it will be accepted. Until then, you'll just have to put up with buying the other dozen or so quality molded F3B and F3J planes that litter the fields these days. I recommend the Cobra - excel
