I consider the Graupner fan I wrote about recently nearly ideal - selfcontained, podded and very sturdy, even though very light (less than 2 oz for a 3" fan - exclusive motor, harness and ESC)! Anyway, you should know, by now, that I installed the fan in a Zagi THL, reinforced according to my design with CF rods, and covered with Oracover and some vinyl for effect! With 8 x 500AR (I think, might be 8 x 1000AR) I ended up at just below a kilo according to my fish scales, not too accurate, fly off weight, including a 1500 mAh Nimh flight battery (orginally for a cordless phone). I almost always launch with a bungee, even more so when using fans! First flight was a glide test and durability test - my dear pulled and I said when to let go. Perfect! First time she ever saw a model fly, live, I think! The launch was perfect I pulled a lot of elevator and what a flutter - my, my, my! This Zagi THL has been through three seasons, three motors and two fans, without repairs, except to one servo the other day - I reversed the battery and just one Hitec HS-80MG died! Not the ideal moment for such an event, I must say, just before going on a long trip and the day before the maiden flight with the BIG fan! Neither Aveox ESC, motor, Futaba Single Con. 4-channel rx nor the other Hs-80MG suffered - I think a gear might be broken in the bad one - if one moves the arm manually it suddenly comes awake but behaves erratically. Borrowed an excellent Weller soldering station from my gal, fixed some leads and in the early morning hours before the trip when home to salvage an old HS-80MG, well used from a Ridge Runt wing. Some hot glue as extra fixture to the fan and servo, in addition to scrap EPP we were off - for a long eventful day-long treck by car, in the summer heat and eventually was ready for powered flight. The aforementioned flutter was of a magnitude and power I never seen before - the hasty replacement of the servo might be the cause, but the increased inertia made it look like a crow fighting the winds, not the speedy, destructive flutter I've seen before by Zagis. It lost speed quickly and landed promptly! A new try and this time on power - we were in the lee of a ridge on a blustery 15-20 mph day, so the rideg was rough, but it worked, it worked! A few more flights and the power was gone, and the flights were shorter than any I've experienced with 400, plus 4:1 gearbox and a 11 x 8" folder. So, just as before, about 200W out gives plenty of speed and climb, this gave speed, but not out and out performance with around 125-30W. The revs were evdiently a bit low and I don't see how a 600 would have managed to fly it. My smaller, 2" Graupner fans, with the same motor, gives more rpm, less power and lomger endurance. The smaller, with a stock Speed 600, gives flight sustain- ability for a while on the same battery pack! I could have saved a lot of weight if I've used a modern Aveox ESC, but the one I had didn't want to play ball, and I needed the longer leads! An BEC would have saved a lot of weight, too! So I think ten RC2000 (or BIG Nimhs) in a slightly bigger airframe would be nearly perfect! That is a Mongo Jr, and as I have two fans it will be a stunner!:-)! So Aveox + Graupner = true bliss :-)! Tord, Sweden -- If reply difficulties - use [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tord S. Eriksson, Ovralidsg.25:5, S-422 47 Hisings Backa, Sweden RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]