Re: [RCSE] Re:line breaks
I must agree with Brian. My first winch used a two inch diameter welded aluminum drum on a standard 12 volt Ford starter motor with a 12 volt battery. The two inch drum didn't produce enough line speed to break lines so easy and we used much smaller lines. We finally switched to larger drums when contestants began complaining about lack of power for good zooms. What they were really complaining about was the lack of line speeds. Unfortunately, the man who fabricated our drums is no longer with us and we never found another fabricator who could produce good welds and the end plates frequently broke. I still have the winch I built in 1972 with the welded aluminum 2 inch drum. We took it out last year and did a few launches and everybody was amazed at how much softer and smoother the launches were when compared to our standard winches. Maybe we should regulate the winch drum diameter. Chuck Anderson At 09:51 AM 12/21/2007, you wrote: With all due respect I disagree Jeff. At our local field when we launch to the north, it takes all the line off the drum.. We get much softer, less powerful launches.. As opposed to when we launch to the south we still have approximately half the winch line left on the drum at the time of launch and the launches are much more aggressive/powerful and all the broken lines and broken models come at the south side.. Just My observations here in Tullahoma.. Brian Smith - Original Message - From: Jeff Steifel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charlie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: soaring@airage.com Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 9:08 AM Subject: Re: ***SPAMTAGPTD: [RCSE] Winch/Sharon Charlie less drum diameter will lead to more line breaks. Since you have more torque you can now crank more turns in and break the line easier. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re:line breaks
Sorry I'm not buying it. My planes stall the winch, with a smaller drum, I get to turn it. We don't use light line anymore, so line speed isn't an issue. The line creates the line speed by the amount it puts on the drum. During the morning, a bigger drum makes sense, during the noon baloon, 2 or 1.75 During wind 2 or 1.75 Unless you have dead air ,or down wind the 2 - 1.75 drums will provide a better launch on the line we use. I stall the winch, and have to push it through to get it moving. Chuck Anderson wrote: I must agree with Brian. My first winch used a two inch diameter welded aluminum drum on a standard 12 volt Ford starter motor with a 12 volt battery. The two inch drum didn't produce enough line speed to break lines so easy and we used much smaller lines. We finally switched to larger drums when contestants began complaining about lack of power for good zooms. What they were really complaining about was the lack of line speeds. Unfortunately, the man who fabricated our drums is no longer with us and we never found another fabricator who could produce good welds and the end plates frequently broke. I still have the winch I built in 1972 with the welded aluminum 2 inch drum. We took it out last year and did a few launches and everybody was amazed at how much softer and smoother the launches were when compared to our standard winches. Maybe we should regulate the winch drum diameter. Chuck Anderson At 09:51 AM 12/21/2007, you wrote: With all due respect I disagree Jeff. At our local field when we launch to the north, it takes all the line off the drum.. We get much softer, less powerful launches.. As opposed to when we launch to the south we still have approximately half the winch line left on the drum at the time of launch and the launches are much more aggressive/powerful and all the broken lines and broken models come at the south side.. Just My observations here in Tullahoma.. Brian Smith - Original Message - From: Jeff Steifel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charlie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: soaring@airage.com Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 9:08 AM Subject: Re: ***SPAMTAGPTD: [RCSE] Winch/Sharon Charlie less drum diameter will lead to more line breaks. Since you have more torque you can now crank more turns in and break the line easier. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re:line breaks
You are all correct. If you go to an extremely small drum and never launch with a lot of tension, and it's not windy, you will probably never build up the tension to get the small drum to break the line. But if you put a lot of tension to start and have a good setup and some wind, you can probably break it. If you are a bad launcher who is active on the elevator, and you get to speeding up and slowing down on the launch, you will loose enough tension with the small drum that you will never get it back, but the bigger drum will build up the tension again an you can break it. You probably need a 4 drum on the FLS to avoid having the winch motor be too strong. And if you have a 6V motor which probably is like s 4-5HP motor, break at will. There are differences in why a line breaks on well set up models with good pilots vs a poor setup and a pilot all over the sticks. If the pilot is not causing any speed changes on the model, then you can size a drum up to the point that the winch can't break the line. But if the pilot starts pulling back, then all bets are off. Most of you don't fly F3b so you really haven't seen the differences in launch technique and setup using more limited power and the abscence of retriever drag. For those who have, ever wonder why the best pilots can fly on really light line while the less experienced are breaking heavier line? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With all due respect I disagree Jeff. Brian Smith --- Charlie less drum diameter will lead to more line breaks. Since you have more torque you can now crank more turns in and break the line easier. -- Jeff Steifel --- I agree with you to Brian. i disagree with the larger drum dia. for a standard winch. on a f3b winch yes, i agree. the standard winch has so much power. say you started with a 3'' dia. that thing will pull line in so fast and load a plane up instantly without stalling the winch, it just keeps pulling alot of line in FAST. as your tapping the pedal you can see your plane pulsing. go down to say a 1'' dia. it's not going to pull the line in so fast. much easier to control your plane with the pedal. I've tried it, and I've seen it. dh RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re:line breaks
With all due respect I disagree Jeff. Brian Smith --- Charlie less drum diameter will lead to more line breaks. Since you have more torque you can now crank more turns in and break the line easier. -- Jeff Steifel --- I agree with you to Brian. i disagree with the larger drum dia. for a standard winch. on a f3b winch yes, i agree. the standard winch has so much power. say you started with a 3'' dia. that thing will pull line in so fast and load a plane up instantly without stalling the winch, it just keeps pulling alot of line in FAST. as your tapping the pedal you can see your plane pulsing. go down to say a 1'' dia. it's not going to pull the line in so fast. much easier to control your plane with the pedal. I've tried it, and I've seen it. dh RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re:line breaks
Jeff, just trying to make a point, and your missing it. forgot what the exact size drum is. a bigger drum dia. WITH a strong standard winch, will break the line easier and is harder to control launch then using a smaller dia. drum. Dave Hauch www.rc-builds.com - Original Message - From: Jeff Steifel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Charlie [EMAIL PROTECTED]; soaring@airage.com Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 11:41 AM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re:line breaks 1 is the extereme, you won't get the plane moving fast enough. 1.5 is extreme too. 1.75 seems better. The best compromise. Anyway in referring to the Goughner drum which is too large, smaller offers more power, and the ability to break lines. Too small you can't get the plane moving. To large no power and you will stall the winch and eat brushes.. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With all due respect I disagree Jeff. Brian Smith --- Charlie less drum diameter will lead to more line breaks. Since you have more torque you can now crank more turns in and break the line easier. -- Jeff Steifel --- I agree with you to Brian. i disagree with the larger drum dia. for a standard winch. on a f3b winch yes, i agree. the standard winch has so much power. say you started with a 3'' dia. that thing will pull line in so fast and load a plane up instantly without stalling the winch, it just keeps pulling alot of line in FAST. as your tapping the pedal you can see your plane pulsing. go down to say a 1'' dia. it's not going to pull the line in so fast. much easier to control your plane with the pedal. I've tried it, and I've seen it. dh -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re:line breaks
hi jeff, we could be getting different performance in our launch systems, so we could be getting totally different results. my fault for mentioning a 1'' drum, that was poor example to start with. i have a very powerful winch, and my turnaround is over 3' off the ground, and my fields are flat. you'll have a hard time stalling my winch even with a 3'' drum. it will really rip the line in with a big drum. so i'm sure your right about your stuff, and sorry to go back forth with you on this trying to make my point. i wish i could get out and break a line this time of year. :-) Dave Hauch www.rc-builds.com - Original Message - From: Jeff Steifel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Charlie [EMAIL PROTECTED]; soaring@airage.com Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 11:41 AM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re:line breaks 1 is the extereme, you won't get the plane moving fast enough. 1.5 is extreme too. 1.75 seems better. The best compromise. Anyway in referring to the Goughner drum which is too large, smaller offers more power, and the ability to break lines. Too small you can't get the plane moving. To large no power and you will stall the winch and eat brushes.. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With all due respect I disagree Jeff. Brian Smith --- Charlie less drum diameter will lead to more line breaks. Since you have more torque you can now crank more turns in and break the line easier. -- Jeff Steifel --- I agree with you to Brian. i disagree with the larger drum dia. for a standard winch. on a f3b winch yes, i agree. the standard winch has so much power. say you started with a 3'' dia. that thing will pull line in so fast and load a plane up instantly without stalling the winch, it just keeps pulling alot of line in FAST. as your tapping the pedal you can see your plane pulsing. go down to say a 1'' dia. it's not going to pull the line in so fast. much easier to control your plane with the pedal. I've tried it, and I've seen it. dh -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
