subject:"Random Thoughts about H."

Sound like a plan to me.

On 29 March 2017 at 17:00, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com> wrote:

> I'm more than happy to help. I'm just unsure how much time I'll be able to
> devote to this as I'm pretty busy with some personal work at the moment.
>
> How about I set up something similar to Nick's on Github and we go from
> there?
>
> We need a name for it. Let's start a new thread on the list and move
> discussions over to that. Is that okay?
>
> A
>
>
>
>
>
> On 29/03/2017 16:44, Jonathan Moore wrote:
>
> I'm still waiting for other willing volunteers. :)
>
> On 29 March 2017 at 16:36, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com> wrote:
>
>> Good idea. He's organised his library in the standard Houdini way so I'm
>> sure he'll be able to help guide things if you're looking to move forward
>> with this.
>>
>>
>> On 29/03/2017 16:02, Jonathan Moore wrote:
>>
>> By the way, does anybody have any issues if I talk to Nick Taylor ref the
>> idea of putting a qLib like library together. I think he’s done a sterling
>> effort with his AeLib library, which mirrors the framework of the qLib
>> library. I’m also a fan of his work for - http://futuredeluxe.co.uk/ -
>> and he’s a regular helping hand on the Discord server. That could be useful
>> for sense checking emerging ideas against the wider consensus of the
>> Houdini community.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [
>> mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> <softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] *On Behalf Of *Andy Nicholas
>> *Sent:* 29 March 2017 15:50
>> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
>> <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you want to
>> maintain speed imho.
>>
>> Definitely. Getting into Vex in a big way has been a complete game
>> changer for me in the last couple of years or so. There's just so much you
>> can do with it, and like you said, it's super fast. It's particularly
>> useful in doing generative geometry and other low level geo operations. As
>> much as I still love ICE, Vex is so much more robust and powerful.
>>
>> And sure, feel free to send a scene if you get stuck!
>>
>> A
>>
>> On 29/03/2017 15:32, Olivier Jeannel wrote:
>>
>> Thank you Andy ! Got to try that when I'm back :)
>>
>> I should send you some scene with some questions (somedays). I wanted to
>> do this with Mikael, but sometimes you don't want to bother people to much,
>> plus you have to be sure that what you're asking has sense, and sometimes
>> you just want to find yourself ^^
>>
>> I quite loved the other day thread about strands a la softimage. Recently
>> someone (can't remember the name) posted a tut about clumping hair on
>> vimeo. And I came up with something hybrid but very fast without any for
>> each sop and a little bit of array.
>>
>> Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you want to
>> maintain speed imho.
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for sharing. It's useful to see where you see issues.
>>
>> > I miss the "sort array with key"
>>
>> You need two nodes: "Array Arg Sort", and "Array Reorder". Use the Array
>> Arg Sort to sort your "key" value and produce indices, which you then feed
>> to the "Array Reorder". Maybe that's the first Softimage ICE HDA someone
>> could make. Just encapsulate these two to become a "Sort Array by Key" node.
>>
>> I think a lot of problems with learning Houdini is the complexity and the
>> overwhelming feeling of "great, I can do anything, but where the heck do I
>> start". Much of which is over the linquistical issues like, for example,
>> the disconnectivity between slightly obscure naming of nodes and what they
>> actually do. I wouldn't mind betting that if people start putting together
>> Softimage->Houdini digital assets, the first noticeable thing will be the
>> Softimage style names that are used!
>>
>> Maybe learning Houdini is a similar process to learning a foreign
>> language? Takes a while to get fluent.
>>
>> A
>>
>>
>> On 29/03/2017 14:33, Olivier Jeannel wrote:
>>
>> I'm not comfident enough to t

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

I'm more than happy to help. I'm just unsure how much time I'll be able 
to devote to this as I'm pretty busy with some personal work at the moment.

How about I set up something similar to Nick's on Github and we go from 
there?

We need a name for it. Let's start a new thread on the list and move 
discussions over to that. Is that okay?

A

On 29/03/2017 16:44, Jonathan Moore wrote:

I'm still waiting for other willing volunteers. :)

On 29 March 2017 at 16:36, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:

Good idea. He's organised his library in the standard Houdini way
so I'm sure he'll be able to help guide things if you're looking
to move forward with this.

On 29/03/2017 16:02, Jonathan Moore wrote:

By the way, does anybody have any issues if I talk to Nick Taylor
ref the idea of putting a qLib like library together. I think
he’s done a sterling effort with his AeLib library, which mirrors
the framework of the qLib library. I’m also a fan of his work for
- http://futuredeluxe.co.uk/ - and he’s a regular helping hand on
the Discord server. That could be useful for sense checking
emerging ideas against the wider consensus of the Houdini community.

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] *On Behalf Of
*Andy Nicholas
*Sent:* 29 March 2017 15:50
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/xsi_list>
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
*Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.

> Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you
want to maintain speed imho.

Definitely. Getting into Vex in a big way has been a complete
game changer for me in the last couple of years or so. There's
just so much you can do with it, and like you said, it's super
fast. It's particularly useful in doing generative geometry and
other low level geo operations. As much as I still love ICE, Vex
is so much more robust and powerful.

And sure, feel free to send a scene if you get stuck!

A

On 29/03/2017 15:32, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

Thank you Andy ! Got to try that when I'm back :)

I should send you some scene with some questions (somedays).
I wanted to do this with Mikael, but sometimes you don't want
to bother people to much, plus you have to be sure that what
you're asking has sense, and sometimes you just want to find
yourself ^^

I quite loved the other day thread about strands a la
softimage. Recently someone (can't remember the name) posted
a tut about clumping hair on vimeo. And I came up with
something hybrid but very fast without any for each sop and a
little bit of array.

Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you
want to maintain speed imho.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas
<a...@andynicholas.com <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:

Thanks for sharing. It's useful to see where you see issues.

> I miss the "sort array with key"

You need two nodes: "Array Arg Sort", and "Array
Reorder". Use the Array Arg Sort to sort your "key" value
and produce indices, which you then feed to the "Array
Reorder". Maybe that's the first Softimage ICE HDA
someone could make. Just encapsulate these two to become
a "Sort Array by Key" node.

I think a lot of problems with learning Houdini is the
complexity and the overwhelming feeling of "great, I can
do anything, but where the heck do I start". Much of
which is over the linquistical issues like, for example,
the disconnectivity between slightly obscure naming of
nodes and what they actually do. I wouldn't mind betting
that if people start putting together Softimage->Houdini
digital assets, the first noticeable thing will be the
Softimage style names that are used!

Maybe learning Houdini is a similar process to learning a
foreign language? Takes a while to get fluent.

A

On 29/03/2017 14:33, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

I'm not comfident enough to tell, and I can only
speak for vop (not vex).

Having to build a for each loop set of nodes, well it
took me time to figure (in fact Mikael tut was the
answer)

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

I'm still waiting for other willing volunteers. :)

On 29 March 2017 at 16:36, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com> wrote:

> Good idea. He's organised his library in the standard Houdini way so I'm
> sure he'll be able to help guide things if you're looking to move forward
> with this.
>
>
> On 29/03/2017 16:02, Jonathan Moore wrote:
>
> By the way, does anybody have any issues if I talk to Nick Taylor ref the
> idea of putting a qLib like library together. I think he’s done a sterling
> effort with his AeLib library, which mirrors the framework of the qLib
> library. I’m also a fan of his work for - http://futuredeluxe.co.uk/ -
> and he’s a regular helping hand on the Discord server. That could be useful
> for sense checking emerging ideas against the wider consensus of the
> Houdini community.
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-bounces@
> listproc.autodesk.com <softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Andy Nicholas
> *Sent:* 29 March 2017 15:50
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/
> forum/#!forum/xsi_list <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
> <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>
>
>
> > Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you want to
> maintain speed imho.
>
> Definitely. Getting into Vex in a big way has been a complete game changer
> for me in the last couple of years or so. There's just so much you can do
> with it, and like you said, it's super fast. It's particularly useful in
> doing generative geometry and other low level geo operations. As much as I
> still love ICE, Vex is so much more robust and powerful.
>
> And sure, feel free to send a scene if you get stuck!
>
> A
>
> On 29/03/2017 15:32, Olivier Jeannel wrote:
>
> Thank you Andy ! Got to try that when I'm back :)
>
> I should send you some scene with some questions (somedays). I wanted to
> do this with Mikael, but sometimes you don't want to bother people to much,
> plus you have to be sure that what you're asking has sense, and sometimes
> you just want to find yourself ^^
>
> I quite loved the other day thread about strands a la softimage. Recently
> someone (can't remember the name) posted a tut about clumping hair on
> vimeo. And I came up with something hybrid but very fast without any for
> each sop and a little bit of array.
>
> Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you want to
> maintain speed imho.
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for sharing. It's useful to see where you see issues.
>
> > I miss the "sort array with key"
>
> You need two nodes: "Array Arg Sort", and "Array Reorder". Use the Array
> Arg Sort to sort your "key" value and produce indices, which you then feed
> to the "Array Reorder". Maybe that's the first Softimage ICE HDA someone
> could make. Just encapsulate these two to become a "Sort Array by Key" node.
>
> I think a lot of problems with learning Houdini is the complexity and the
> overwhelming feeling of "great, I can do anything, but where the heck do I
> start". Much of which is over the linquistical issues like, for example,
> the disconnectivity between slightly obscure naming of nodes and what they
> actually do. I wouldn't mind betting that if people start putting together
> Softimage->Houdini digital assets, the first noticeable thing will be the
> Softimage style names that are used!
>
> Maybe learning Houdini is a similar process to learning a foreign
> language? Takes a while to get fluent.
>
> A
>
>
> On 29/03/2017 14:33, Olivier Jeannel wrote:
>
> I'm not comfident enough to tell, and I can only speak for vop (not vex).
>
> Having to build a for each loop set of nodes, well it took me time to
> figure (in fact Mikael tut was the answer)
>
> Having to work with per prim vertex array seems to be a limitation when
> coming to sort those vertex.
>
> I have overal sorting issues : it's ok to sort ptnum but an arbitrary
> integer attribute I'm not sure I can.
>
> I wish there was more example (in vop) of array building and sorting.
>
> I miss the "sort array with key"
>
>
>
> I'm just starting with arrays in H but I find it over complicated.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com> wrote:
>
> Heh! Flattery will get you everywhere ;)
>
> Yes, they make sense in both packages to me, and you have the added
> benefit of being able to see the arrays directly in Houdini using the
> Ge

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

Good idea. He's organised his library in the standard Houdini way so I'm 
sure he'll be able to help guide things if you're looking to move 
forward with this.

On 29/03/2017 16:02, Jonathan Moore wrote:

By the way, does anybody have any issues if I talk to Nick Taylor ref 
the idea of putting a qLib like library together. I think he’s done a 
sterling effort with his AeLib library, which mirrors the framework of 
the qLib library. I’m also a fan of his work for - 
http://futuredeluxe.co.uk/ - and he’s a regular helping hand on the 
Discord server. That could be useful for sense checking emerging ideas 
against the wider consensus of the Houdini community.

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Andy 
Nicholas

*Sent:* 29 March 2017 15:50
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>

*Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.

> Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you want to 
maintain speed imho.

Definitely. Getting into Vex in a big way has been a complete game 
changer for me in the last couple of years or so. There's just so much 
you can do with it, and like you said, it's super fast. It's 
particularly useful in doing generative geometry and other low level 
geo operations. As much as I still love ICE, Vex is so much more 
robust and powerful.

And sure, feel free to send a scene if you get stuck!

A

On 29/03/2017 15:32, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

Thank you Andy ! Got to try that when I'm back :)

I should send you some scene with some questions (somedays). I
wanted to do this with Mikael, but sometimes you don't want to
bother people to much, plus you have to be sure that what you're
asking has sense, and sometimes you just want to find yourself ^^

I quite loved the other day thread about strands a la softimage.
Recently someone (can't remember the name) posted a tut about
clumping hair on vimeo. And I came up with something hybrid but
very fast without any for each sop and a little bit of array.

Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you want
to maintain speed imho.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:

Thanks for sharing. It's useful to see where you see issues.

> I miss the "sort array with key"

You need two nodes: "Array Arg Sort", and "Array Reorder". Use
the Array Arg Sort to sort your "key" value and produce
indices, which you then feed to the "Array Reorder". Maybe
that's the first Softimage ICE HDA someone could make. Just
encapsulate these two to become a "Sort Array by Key" node.

I think a lot of problems with learning Houdini is the
complexity and the overwhelming feeling of "great, I can do
anything, but where the heck do I start". Much of which is
over the linquistical issues like, for example, the
disconnectivity between slightly obscure naming of nodes and
what they actually do. I wouldn't mind betting that if people
start putting together Softimage->Houdini digital assets, the
first noticeable thing will be the Softimage style names that
are used!

Maybe learning Houdini is a similar process to learning a
foreign language? Takes a while to get fluent.

A

On 29/03/2017 14:33, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

I'm not comfident enough to tell, and I can only speak for
vop (not vex).

Having to build a for each loop set of nodes, well it took
me time to figure (in fact Mikael tut was the answer)

Having to work with per prim vertex array seems to be a
limitation when coming to sort those vertex.

I have overal sorting issues : it's ok to sort ptnum but
an arbitrary integer attribute I'm not sure I can.

I wish there was more example (in vop) of array building
and sorting.

I miss the "sort array with key"

I'm just starting with arrays in H but I find it over
complicated.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas
<a...@andynicholas.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','a...@andynicholas.com');>>
wrote:

Heh! Flattery will get you everywhere ;)

Yes, they make sense in both packages to me, and you
have the added benefit of being able to see the arrays
directly in Houdini using the Geometry Spreadsheet,
rather than turning on the visualisation in Softimage
and have them disappearing off the top of

RE: Random Thoughts about H.

By the way, does anybody have any issues if I talk to Nick Taylor ref the idea 
of putting a qLib like library together. I think he’s done a sterling effort 
with his AeLib library, which mirrors the framework of the qLib library. I’m 
also a fan of his work for - http://futuredeluxe.co.uk/ - and he’s a regular 
helping hand on the Discord server. That could be useful for sense checking 
emerging ideas against the wider consensus of the Houdini community.

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas
Sent: 29 March 2017 15:50
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

> Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you want to maintain 
> speed imho. 

Definitely. Getting into Vex in a big way has been a complete game changer for 
me in the last couple of years or so. There's just so much you can do with it, 
and like you said, it's super fast. It's particularly useful in doing 
generative geometry and other low level geo operations. As much as I still love 
ICE, Vex is so much more robust and powerful.

And sure, feel free to send a scene if you get stuck!

A

On 29/03/2017 15:32, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

Thank you Andy ! Got to try that when I'm back :) 

I should send you some scene with some questions (somedays). I wanted to do 
this with Mikael, but sometimes you don't want to bother people to much, plus 
you have to be sure that what you're asking has sense, and sometimes you just 
want to find yourself ^^

I quite loved the other day thread about strands a la softimage. Recently 
someone (can't remember the name) posted a tut about clumping hair on vimeo. 
And I came up with something hybrid but very fast without any for each sop and 
a little bit of array.

Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you want to maintain 
speed imho. 

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com> > wrote:

Thanks for sharing. It's useful to see where you see issues.

> I miss the "sort array with key"

You need two nodes: "Array Arg Sort", and "Array Reorder". Use the Array Arg 
Sort to sort your "key" value and produce indices, which you then feed to the 
"Array Reorder". Maybe that's the first Softimage ICE HDA someone could make. 
Just encapsulate these two to become a "Sort Array by Key" node.

I think a lot of problems with learning Houdini is the complexity and the 
overwhelming feeling of "great, I can do anything, but where the heck do I 
start". Much of which is over the linquistical issues like, for example, the 
disconnectivity between slightly obscure naming of nodes and what they actually 
do. I wouldn't mind betting that if people start putting together 
Softimage->Houdini digital assets, the first noticeable thing will be the 
Softimage style names that are used!

Maybe learning Houdini is a similar process to learning a foreign language? 
Takes a while to get fluent.

A

On 29/03/2017 14:33, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

I'm not comfident enough to tell, and I can only speak for vop (not vex). 

Having to build a for each loop set of nodes, well it took me time to figure 
(in fact Mikael tut was the answer)

Having to work with per prim vertex array seems to be a limitation when coming 
to sort those vertex.

I have overal sorting issues : it's ok to sort ptnum but an arbitrary integer 
attribute I'm not sure I can.

I wish there was more example (in vop) of array building and sorting.

I miss the "sort array with key"

I'm just starting with arrays in H but I find it over complicated.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','a...@andynicholas.com');> > wrote:

Heh! Flattery will get you everywhere ;)

Yes, they make sense in both packages to me, and you have the added benefit of 
being able to see the arrays directly in Houdini using the Geometry 
Spreadsheet, rather than turning on the visualisation in Softimage and have 
them disappearing off the top of the screen. You can do Python style array 
slicing in VEX too which is awesomely useful.

Anyway, that's why I wanted to ask Olivier an honest question to try and 
understand where Houdini is lacking. Maybe I'm too close to it to see the 
issues. 

A

On 29/03/2017 13:06, Jordi Bares wrote:

I was wondering if using arrays in Houdini makes as much sense as in Softimage… 
Andy??? You are the expert here.

jb

On 29 Mar 2017, at 10:57, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com> > wrote:

Hi Olivier, where do you see the biggest difference with ICE arrays and Houdini 
arrays? In both you have ways of adding, removing, sorting, etc. elements i

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

> Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you want to 
maintain speed imho.

Definitely. Getting into Vex in a big way has been a complete game 
changer for me in the last couple of years or so. There's just so much 
you can do with it, and like you said, it's super fast. It's 
particularly useful in doing generative geometry and other low level geo 
operations. As much as I still love ICE, Vex is so much more robust and 
powerful.

And sure, feel free to send a scene if you get stuck!

A

On 29/03/2017 15:32, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

Thank you Andy ! Got to try that when I'm back :)
I should send you some scene with some questions (somedays). I wanted 
to do this with Mikael, but sometimes you don't want to bother people 
to much, plus you have to be sure that what you're asking has sense, 
and sometimes you just want to find yourself ^^
I quite loved the other day thread about strands a la softimage. 
Recently someone (can't remember the name) posted a tut about clumping 
hair on vimeo. And I came up with something hybrid but very fast 
without any for each sop and a little bit of array.
Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you want to 
maintain speed imho.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas > wrote:

Thanks for sharing. It's useful to see where you see issues.

> I miss the "sort array with key"

You need two nodes: "Array Arg Sort", and "Array Reorder". Use the
Array Arg Sort to sort your "key" value and produce indices, which
you then feed to the "Array Reorder". Maybe that's the first
Softimage ICE HDA someone could make. Just encapsulate these two
to become a "Sort Array by Key" node.

I think a lot of problems with learning Houdini is the complexity
and the overwhelming feeling of "great, I can do anything, but
where the heck do I start". Much of which is over the linquistical
issues like, for example, the disconnectivity between slightly
obscure naming of nodes and what they actually do. I wouldn't mind
betting that if people start putting together Softimage->Houdini
digital assets, the first noticeable thing will be the Softimage
style names that are used!

Maybe learning Houdini is a similar process to learning a foreign
language? Takes a while to get fluent.

A

On 29/03/2017 14:33, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

I'm not comfident enough to tell, and I can only speak for vop
(not vex).
Having to build a for each loop set of nodes, well it took me
time to figure (in fact Mikael tut was the answer)
Having to work with per prim vertex array seems to be a
limitation when coming to sort those vertex.
I have overal sorting issues : it's ok to sort ptnum but an
arbitrary integer attribute I'm not sure I can.
I wish there was more example (in vop) of array building and sorting.
I miss the "sort array with key"

I'm just starting with arrays in H but I find it over complicated.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas
> wrote:

Heh! Flattery will get you everywhere ;)

Yes, they make sense in both packages to me, and you have the
added benefit of being able to see the arrays directly in
Houdini using the Geometry Spreadsheet, rather than turning
on the visualisation in Softimage and have them disappearing
off the top of the screen. You can do Python style array
slicing in VEX too which is awesomely useful.

Anyway, that's why I wanted to ask Olivier an honest question
to try and understand where Houdini is lacking. Maybe I'm too
close to it to see the issues.

A

On 29/03/2017 13:06, Jordi Bares wrote:

I was wondering if using arrays in Houdini makes as much
sense as in Softimage… Andy??? You are the expert here.

jb

On 29 Mar 2017, at 10:57, Andy Nicholas
 wrote:

Hi Olivier, where do you see the biggest difference with
ICE arrays and Houdini arrays? In both you have ways of
adding, removing, sorting, etc. elements in the array in
whatever context you're in, no?

A

On 29/03/2017 09:48, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

An example of something we own as ice user :
One of the first thing I replicated was the Modulate by
Volume.
When I arrived on Houdini and saw all those tutorial with
people using the Attribute transfer, I tried to use it
myself and was horrified : I found it slow and not precize.
Nobody was using a UV location + dotproduct method, and
imho that's by far the most efficient method.
The hardest thinking was "how should I wire it in Houdini
way of working ?". I came up with one Vop HDA, and one SOP

RE: Random Thoughts about H.

With my limited knowledge of XSI the main areas where I think ICE wins is the 
ease of manipulating arrays in a nodal manner that has no real parallel in 
VOPs. I’m specifically talking about pop, push, sort, get average, maximum, 
minimum, sum etc, etc. And that’s before we get into to the great array 
compounds that were shared by the community. None of these things are missing 
in VEX but approachable parallels  in VOP’s are lacking. But to put the shoe on 
the other foot managing context is a far more logical process in Houdini than 
it is in XSI. 

 

I haven’t personally minded being pushed deeper into C like programming than I 
was previously comfortable with as I find VEX exceptionally efficient and well 
structured. A few well-chosen lines of VEX beats a spaghetti junction of VOP 
nodes any day. However the beauty of visual programming interfaces is that 
they’re far more approachably to artists with little to no programming 
experience. In many ways I far prefer VOPs to ICE but VOPs definitely lacks a 
compelling set of ‘compounds’ that artists can analyse at leisure and gain a 
greater ability for programmatic thinking at a pace they’re comfortable with.

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas
Sent: 29 March 2017 14:57
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

 

Thanks for sharing. It's useful to see where you see issues.

> I miss the "sort array with key"

You need two nodes: "Array Arg Sort", and "Array Reorder". Use the Array Arg 
Sort to sort your "key" value and produce indices, which you then feed to the 
"Array Reorder". Maybe that's the first Softimage ICE HDA someone could make. 
Just encapsulate these two to become a "Sort Array by Key" node.

I think a lot of problems with learning Houdini is the complexity and the 
overwhelming feeling of "great, I can do anything, but where the heck do I 
start". Much of which is over the linquistical issues like, for example, the 
disconnectivity between slightly obscure naming of nodes and what they actually 
do. I wouldn't mind betting that if people start putting together 
Softimage->Houdini digital assets, the first noticeable thing will be the 
Softimage style names that are used!

Maybe learning Houdini is a similar process to learning a foreign language? 
Takes a while to get fluent.

A




On 29/03/2017 14:33, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

I'm not comfident enough to tell, and I can only speak for vop (not vex). 

Having to build a for each loop set of nodes, well it took me time to figure 
(in fact Mikael tut was the answer)

Having to work with per prim vertex array seems to be a limitation when coming 
to sort those vertex.

I have overal sorting issues : it's ok to sort ptnum but an arbitrary integer 
attribute I'm not sure I can.

I wish there was more example (in vop) of array building and sorting.

I miss the "sort array with key"

 

I'm just starting with arrays in H but I find it over complicated.



On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com> > wrote:

Heh! Flattery will get you everywhere ;)

Yes, they make sense in both packages to me, and you have the added benefit of 
being able to see the arrays directly in Houdini using the Geometry 
Spreadsheet, rather than turning on the visualisation in Softimage and have 
them disappearing off the top of the screen. You can do Python style array 
slicing in VEX too which is awesomely useful.

Anyway, that's why I wanted to ask Olivier an honest question to try and 
understand where Houdini is lacking. Maybe I'm too close to it to see the 
issues. 

A



On 29/03/2017 13:06, Jordi Bares wrote:

I was wondering if using arrays in Houdini makes as much sense as in Softimage… 
Andy??? You are the expert here.

 

jb

 

On 29 Mar 2017, at 10:57, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','a...@andynicholas.com');> > wrote:

 

Hi Olivier, where do you see the biggest difference with ICE arrays and Houdini 
arrays? In both you have ways of adding, removing, sorting, etc. elements in 
the array in whatever context you're in, no?

A

On 29/03/2017 09:48, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

An example of something we own as ice user :

One of the first thing I replicated was the Modulate by Volume. 

When I arrived on Houdini and saw all those tutorial with people using the 
Attribute transfer, I tried to use it myself and was horrified : I found it 
slow and not precize.

Nobody was using a UV location + dotproduct method, and imho that's by far the 
most efficient method.

The hardest thinking was "how should I wire it in Houdini way of working ?". I 
came up with one Vop HDA, and one SOP HDA (wh

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-29 Thread Olivier Jeannel

Thank you Andy ! Got to try that when I'm back :)
I should send you some scene with some questions (somedays). I wanted to do
this with Mikael, but sometimes you don't want to bother people to much,
plus you have to be sure that what you're asking has sense, and sometimes
you just want to find yourself ^^
I quite loved the other day thread about strands a la softimage. Recently
someone (can't remember the name) posted a tut about clumping hair on
vimeo. And I came up with something hybrid but very fast without any for
each sop and a little bit of array.
Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you want to
maintain speed imho.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas  wrote:

> Thanks for sharing. It's useful to see where you see issues.
>
> > I miss the "sort array with key"
>
> You need two nodes: "Array Arg Sort", and "Array Reorder". Use the Array
> Arg Sort to sort your "key" value and produce indices, which you then feed
> to the "Array Reorder". Maybe that's the first Softimage ICE HDA someone
> could make. Just encapsulate these two to become a "Sort Array by Key" node.
>
> I think a lot of problems with learning Houdini is the complexity and the
> overwhelming feeling of "great, I can do anything, but where the heck do I
> start". Much of which is over the linquistical issues like, for example,
> the disconnectivity between slightly obscure naming of nodes and what they
> actually do. I wouldn't mind betting that if people start putting together
> Softimage->Houdini digital assets, the first noticeable thing will be the
> Softimage style names that are used!
>
> Maybe learning Houdini is a similar process to learning a foreign
> language? Takes a while to get fluent.
>
> A
>
>
>
> On 29/03/2017 14:33, Olivier Jeannel wrote:
>
> I'm not comfident enough to tell, and I can only speak for vop (not vex).
> Having to build a for each loop set of nodes, well it took me time to
> figure (in fact Mikael tut was the answer)
> Having to work with per prim vertex array seems to be a limitation when
> coming to sort those vertex.
> I have overal sorting issues : it's ok to sort ptnum but an arbitrary
> integer attribute I'm not sure I can.
> I wish there was more example (in vop) of array building and sorting.
> I miss the "sort array with key"
>
> I'm just starting with arrays in H but I find it over complicated.
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas  > wrote:
>
>> Heh! Flattery will get you everywhere ;)
>>
>> Yes, they make sense in both packages to me, and you have the added
>> benefit of being able to see the arrays directly in Houdini using the
>> Geometry Spreadsheet, rather than turning on the visualisation in Softimage
>> and have them disappearing off the top of the screen. You can do Python
>> style array slicing in VEX too which is awesomely useful.
>>
>> Anyway, that's why I wanted to ask Olivier an honest question to try and
>> understand where Houdini is lacking. Maybe I'm too close to it to see the
>> issues.
>>
>> A
>>
>>
>> On 29/03/2017 13:06, Jordi Bares wrote:
>>
>> I was wondering if using arrays in Houdini makes as much sense as in
>> Softimage… Andy??? You are the expert here.
>>
>> jb
>>
>> On 29 Mar 2017, at 10:57, Andy Nicholas  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Olivier, where do you see the biggest difference with ICE arrays and
>> Houdini arrays? In both you have ways of adding, removing, sorting, etc.
>> elements in the array in whatever context you're in, no?
>>
>> A
>>
>> On 29/03/2017 09:48, Olivier Jeannel wrote:
>>
>> An example of something we own as ice user :
>> One of the first thing I replicated was the Modulate by Volume.
>> When I arrived on Houdini and saw all those tutorial with people using
>> the Attribute transfer, I tried to use it myself and was horrified : I
>> found it slow and not precize.
>> Nobody was using a UV location + dotproduct method, and imho that's by
>> far the most efficient method.
>> The hardest thinking was "how should I wire it in Houdini way of working
>> ?". I came up with one Vop HDA, and one SOP HDA (which is simply the vop
>> compounded).
>> The great "plus" with Houdini, is that it's able to transfer values of
>> any context (point, prim, you name it, ..)
>> I'll try to record something.
>>
>> I think there's a large place for improvement in H for everything that
>> concerns arrays. In ice, there was a lot of things to do with arrays ,
>> hence the speed. And the ice tools were super efficient for that. In
>> Houdini, there's a kind of "thinking" that as VOP by nature is looping
>> through points it is an "enough" solution.
>> Well, "maybe" but it's so criptic that unless you're a vex/C/python
>> programmer I find it very time consumming to understand. Plus there are no
>> doc samples or tut, a part from the one from Mikael Perterssen
>> http://shortandsweet3d.blogspot.fr/. That makes me wonder if

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

Thanks for sharing. It's useful to see where you see issues.

> I miss the "sort array with key"

You need two nodes: "Array Arg Sort", and "Array Reorder". Use the Array 
Arg Sort to sort your "key" value and produce indices, which you then 
feed to the "Array Reorder". Maybe that's the first Softimage ICE HDA 
someone could make. Just encapsulate these two to become a "Sort Array 
by Key" node.

I think a lot of problems with learning Houdini is the complexity and 
the overwhelming feeling of "great, I can do anything, but where the 
heck do I start". Much of which is over the linquistical issues like, 
for example, the disconnectivity between slightly obscure naming of 
nodes and what they actually do. I wouldn't mind betting that if people 
start putting together Softimage->Houdini digital assets, the first 
noticeable thing will be the Softimage style names that are used!

Maybe learning Houdini is a similar process to learning a foreign 
language? Takes a while to get fluent.

A

On 29/03/2017 14:33, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

I'm not comfident enough to tell, and I can only speak for vop (not vex).
Having to build a for each loop set of nodes, well it took me time to 
figure (in fact Mikael tut was the answer)
Having to work with per prim vertex array seems to be a limitation 
when coming to sort those vertex.
I have overal sorting issues : it's ok to sort ptnum but an arbitrary 
integer attribute I'm not sure I can.

I wish there was more example (in vop) of array building and sorting.
I miss the "sort array with key"

I'm just starting with arrays in H but I find it over complicated.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas > wrote:

Heh! Flattery will get you everywhere ;)

Yes, they make sense in both packages to me, and you have the
added benefit of being able to see the arrays directly in Houdini
using the Geometry Spreadsheet, rather than turning on the
visualisation in Softimage and have them disappearing off the top
of the screen. You can do Python style array slicing in VEX too
which is awesomely useful.

Anyway, that's why I wanted to ask Olivier an honest question to
try and understand where Houdini is lacking. Maybe I'm too close
to it to see the issues.

A

On 29/03/2017 13:06, Jordi Bares wrote:

I was wondering if using arrays in Houdini makes as much sense as
in Softimage… Andy??? You are the expert here.

jb

On 29 Mar 2017, at 10:57, Andy Nicholas > wrote:

Hi Olivier, where do you see the biggest difference with ICE
arrays and Houdini arrays? In both you have ways of adding,
removing, sorting, etc. elements in the array in whatever
context you're in, no?

A

On 29/03/2017 09:48, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

An example of something we own as ice user :
One of the first thing I replicated was the Modulate by Volume.
When I arrived on Houdini and saw all those tutorial with
people using the Attribute transfer, I tried to use it myself
and was horrified : I found it slow and not precize.
Nobody was using a UV location + dotproduct method, and imho
that's by far the most efficient method.
The hardest thinking was "how should I wire it in Houdini way
of working ?". I came up with one Vop HDA, and one SOP HDA
(which is simply the vop compounded).
The great "plus" with Houdini, is that it's able to transfer
values of any context (point, prim, you name it, ..)
I'll try to record something.

I think there's a large place for improvement in H for
everything that concerns arrays. In ice, there was a lot of
things to do with arrays , hence the speed. And the ice tools
were super efficient for that. In Houdini, there's a kind of
"thinking" that as VOP by nature is looping through points it
is an "enough" solution.
Well, "maybe" but it's so criptic that unless you're a
vex/C/python programmer I find it very time consumming to
understand. Plus there are no doc samples or tut, a part from
the one from Mikael Perterssen
http://shortandsweet3d.blogspot.fr/
. That makes me wonder if
other people really consider or understand this.
Also, if you compare Peter Quint and Mikael way to deal with
States, hell, I'm 200% on the ice method.

2017-03-28 20:39 GMT+02:00 Olivier Jeannel
>:

I'm a morron, but I'd love to have exclusive pure Ice
minded HDA library.

2017-03-28 20:29 GMT+02:00 Rob Chapman
>:

Thought I'd pipe in since tekano got invoked, also
slowly attemting to transition and agree with most

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-29 Thread Olivier Jeannel

I'm not comfident enough to tell, and I can only speak for vop (not vex).
Having to build a for each loop set of nodes, well it took me time to
figure (in fact Mikael tut was the answer)
Having to work with per prim vertex array seems to be a limitation when
coming to sort those vertex.
I have overal sorting issues : it's ok to sort ptnum but an arbitrary
integer attribute I'm not sure I can.
I wish there was more example (in vop) of array building and sorting.
I miss the "sort array with key"

I'm just starting with arrays in H but I find it over complicated.


On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas  wrote:

> Heh! Flattery will get you everywhere ;)
>
> Yes, they make sense in both packages to me, and you have the added
> benefit of being able to see the arrays directly in Houdini using the
> Geometry Spreadsheet, rather than turning on the visualisation in Softimage
> and have them disappearing off the top of the screen. You can do Python
> style array slicing in VEX too which is awesomely useful.
>
> Anyway, that's why I wanted to ask Olivier an honest question to try and
> understand where Houdini is lacking. Maybe I'm too close to it to see the
> issues.
>
> A
>
>
> On 29/03/2017 13:06, Jordi Bares wrote:
>
> I was wondering if using arrays in Houdini makes as much sense as in
> Softimage… Andy??? You are the expert here.
>
> jb
>
> On 29 Mar 2017, at 10:57, Andy Nicholas  > wrote:
>
> Hi Olivier, where do you see the biggest difference with ICE arrays and
> Houdini arrays? In both you have ways of adding, removing, sorting, etc.
> elements in the array in whatever context you're in, no?
>
> A
>
> On 29/03/2017 09:48, Olivier Jeannel wrote:
>
> An example of something we own as ice user :
> One of the first thing I replicated was the Modulate by Volume.
> When I arrived on Houdini and saw all those tutorial with people using the
> Attribute transfer, I tried to use it myself and was horrified : I found it
> slow and not precize.
> Nobody was using a UV location + dotproduct method, and imho that's by far
> the most efficient method.
> The hardest thinking was "how should I wire it in Houdini way of working
> ?". I came up with one Vop HDA, and one SOP HDA (which is simply the vop
> compounded).
> The great "plus" with Houdini, is that it's able to transfer values of any
> context (point, prim, you name it, ..)
> I'll try to record something.
>
> I think there's a large place for improvement in H for everything that
> concerns arrays. In ice, there was a lot of things to do with arrays ,
> hence the speed. And the ice tools were super efficient for that. In
> Houdini, there's a kind of "thinking" that as VOP by nature is looping
> through points it is an "enough" solution.
> Well, "maybe" but it's so criptic that unless you're a vex/C/python
> programmer I find it very time consumming to understand. Plus there are no
> doc samples or tut, a part from the one from Mikael Perterssen http://
> shortandsweet3d.blogspot.fr/. That makes me wonder if other people really
> consider or understand this.
> Also, if you compare Peter Quint and Mikael way to deal with States, hell,
> I'm 200% on the ice method.
>
>
> 2017-03-28 20:39 GMT+02:00 Olivier Jeannel  >:
>
>> I'm a morron, but I'd love to have exclusive pure Ice minded HDA library.
>>
>> 2017-03-28 20:29 GMT+02:00 Rob Chapman > >:
>>
>>> Thought I'd pipe in since tekano got invoked, also slowly attemting to
>>> transition and agree with most already said and thanks, is already a huge
>>> pointer to as yet unknown aspects and features of how complex houdini is.
>>>  also would be interested in a more 'compounded' way of learning Houdini
>>> like ice was introduced. Everything a compound node of nested compound
>>> logic with exact same UI logic and Core nodes and complexity under the hood
>>> but still accessable in a single click and an 'easy for artists' ability to
>>> follow the logic flow into further nested compounds and see how it was
>>> made. Not so with houdini yet  open one compound and is equivalent to
>>> inside of the neighborhood telephone junction box. Part of the enjoyment,
>>> for me, was building own logic and then seeing the contrast of the
>>> 'Softimage' way, and for sure, if you are building something fairly complex
>>> requiring macro detailed interactions with something of a much larger
>>> scale, eg characters running through a several fields of flowers,  then
>>> somethings can be improved or optimised from the off the shelf examples.
>>> Otherwise prepare for big data and long iteration times. It seems covering
>>> all bases like the 'houdini' way is fine for examples and base setup but
>>> not so in more complicated tasks is better to be good at understanding
>>>

Re: Random Thoughts about H.


Heh! Flattery will get you everywhere ;)

Yes, they make sense in both packages to me, and you have the added 
benefit of being able to see the arrays directly in Houdini using the 
Geometry Spreadsheet, rather than turning on the visualisation in 
Softimage and have them disappearing off the top of the screen. You can 
do Python style array slicing in VEX too which is awesomely useful.


Anyway, that's why I wanted to ask Olivier an honest question to try and 
understand where Houdini is lacking. Maybe I'm too close to it to see 
the issues.


A


On 29/03/2017 13:06, Jordi Bares wrote:
I was wondering if using arrays in Houdini makes as much sense as in 
Softimage… Andy??? You are the expert here.


jb

On 29 Mar 2017, at 10:57, Andy Nicholas > wrote:


Hi Olivier, where do you see the biggest difference with ICE arrays 
and Houdini arrays? In both you have ways of adding, removing, 
sorting, etc. elements in the array in whatever context you're in, no?


A

On 29/03/2017 09:48, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

An example of something we own as ice user :
One of the first thing I replicated was the Modulate by Volume.
When I arrived on Houdini and saw all those tutorial with people 
using the Attribute transfer, I tried to use it myself and was 
horrified : I found it slow and not precize.
Nobody was using a UV location + dotproduct method, and imho that's 
by far the most efficient method.
The hardest thinking was "how should I wire it in Houdini way of 
working ?". I came up with one Vop HDA, and one SOP HDA (which is 
simply the vop compounded).
The great "plus" with Houdini, is that it's able to transfer values 
of any context (point, prim, you name it, ..)

I'll try to record something.

I think there's a large place for improvement in H for everything 
that concerns arrays. In ice, there was a lot of things to do with 
arrays , hence the speed. And the ice tools were super efficient for 
that. In Houdini, there's a kind of "thinking" that as VOP by nature 
is looping through points it is an "enough" solution.
Well, "maybe" but it's so criptic that unless you're a vex/C/python 
programmer I find it very time consumming to understand. Plus there 
are no doc samples or tut, a part from the one from Mikael 
Perterssen http://shortandsweet3d.blogspot.fr/. That makes me wonder 
if other people really consider or understand this.
Also, if you compare Peter Quint and Mikael way to deal with States, 
hell, I'm 200% on the ice method.



2017-03-28 20:39 GMT+02:00 Olivier Jeannel >:


I'm a morron, but I'd love to have exclusive pure Ice minded HDA
library.

2017-03-28 20:29 GMT+02:00 Rob Chapman >:

Thought I'd pipe in since tekano got invoked, also slowly
attemting to transition and agree with most already said and
thanks, is already a huge pointer to as yet unknown aspects
and features of how complex houdini is.
 also would be interested in a more 'compounded' way of
learning Houdini like ice was introduced. Everything a
compound node of nested compound logic with exact same UI
logic and Core nodes and complexity under the hood but still
accessable in a single click and an 'easy for artists'
ability to follow the logic flow into further nested
compounds and see how it was made. Not so with houdini yet
 open one compound and is equivalent to inside of the
neighborhood telephone junction box. Part of the enjoyment,
for me, was building own logic and then seeing the contrast
of the 'Softimage' way, and for sure, if you are building
something fairly complex requiring macro detailed
interactions with something of a much larger scale, eg
characters running through a several fields of flowers,
 then somethings can be improved or optimised from the off
the shelf examples. Otherwise prepare for big data and long
iteration times. It seems covering all bases like the
'houdini' way is fine for examples and base setup but not so
in more complicated tasks is better to be good at
understanding which bits to leave out.  or be able rapidly
prototype your own. I think like Mr Bolland has done and
Pooby is asking for is these intermediate compounds between
that Softimage bought with it to help us poor artists out 

--
Softimage Mailing List.
To unsubscribe, send a mail to
softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
 with
"unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.





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To unsubscribe, send a mail tosoftimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com  with 
"unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.


--

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-29 Thread Jordi Bares

I was wondering if using arrays in Houdini makes as much sense as in Softimage… 
Andy??? You are the expert here.

jb

> On 29 Mar 2017, at 10:57, Andy Nicholas  wrote:
> 
> Hi Olivier, where do you see the biggest difference with ICE arrays and 
> Houdini arrays? In both you have ways of adding, removing, sorting, etc. 
> elements in the array in whatever context you're in, no?
> 
> A
> 
> On 29/03/2017 09:48, Olivier Jeannel wrote:
>> An example of something we own as ice user :
>> One of the first thing I replicated was the Modulate by Volume.
>> When I arrived on Houdini and saw all those tutorial with people using the 
>> Attribute transfer, I tried to use it myself and was horrified : I found it 
>> slow and not precize.
>> Nobody was using a UV location + dotproduct method, and imho that's by far 
>> the most efficient method.
>> The hardest thinking was "how should I wire it in Houdini way of working ?". 
>> I came up with one Vop HDA, and one SOP HDA (which is simply the vop 
>> compounded).
>> The great "plus" with Houdini, is that it's able to transfer values of any 
>> context (point, prim, you name it, ..)
>> I'll try to record something.
>> 
>> I think there's a large place for improvement in H for everything that 
>> concerns arrays. In ice, there was a lot of things to do with arrays , hence 
>> the speed. And the ice tools were super efficient for that. In Houdini, 
>> there's a kind of "thinking" that as VOP by nature is looping through points 
>> it is an "enough" solution.
>> Well, "maybe" but it's so criptic that unless you're a vex/C/python 
>> programmer I find it very time consumming to understand. Plus there are no 
>> doc samples or tut, a part from the one from Mikael Perterssen 
>> http://shortandsweet3d.blogspot.fr/ . 
>> That makes me wonder if other people really consider or understand this.
>> Also, if you compare Peter Quint and Mikael way to deal with States, hell, 
>> I'm 200% on the ice method.
>> 
>> 
>> 2017-03-28 20:39 GMT+02:00 Olivier Jeannel > >:
>> I'm a morron, but I'd love to have exclusive pure Ice minded HDA library. 
>> 
>> 2017-03-28 20:29 GMT+02:00 Rob Chapman > >:
>> Thought I'd pipe in since tekano got invoked, also slowly attemting to 
>> transition and agree with most already said and thanks, is already a huge 
>> pointer to as yet unknown aspects and features of how complex houdini is.
>>  also would be interested in a more 'compounded' way of learning Houdini 
>> like ice was introduced. Everything a compound node of nested compound logic 
>> with exact same UI logic and Core nodes and complexity under the hood but 
>> still accessable in a single click and an 'easy for artists' ability to 
>> follow the logic flow into further nested compounds and see how it was made. 
>> Not so with houdini yet  open one compound and is equivalent to inside of 
>> the neighborhood telephone junction box. Part of the enjoyment, for me, was 
>> building own logic and then seeing the contrast of the 'Softimage' way, and 
>> for sure, if you are building something fairly complex requiring macro 
>> detailed interactions with something of a much larger scale, eg characters 
>> running through a several fields of flowers,  then somethings can be 
>> improved or optimised from the off the shelf examples.  Otherwise prepare 
>> for big data and long iteration times. It seems covering all bases like the 
>> 'houdini' way is fine for examples and base setup but
>>not so in more complicated tasks is better to be good at understanding 
>> which bits to leave out.  or be able rapidly prototype your own. I think 
>> like Mr Bolland has done and Pooby is asking for is these intermediate 
>> compounds between that Softimage bought with it to help us poor artists out 
>> 
>> --
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>>  with "unsubscribe" in the 
>> subject, and reply to confirm.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>>  with "unsubscribe" in the 
>> subject, and reply to confirm.
> 
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-29 Thread Pierre Schiller

Me wants. :D

On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 3:48 AM, Olivier Jeannel 
wrote:

> An example of something we own as ice user :
> One of the first thing I replicated was the Modulate by Volume.
> When I arrived on Houdini and saw all those tutorial with people using the
> Attribute transfer, I tried to use it myself and was horrified : I found it
> slow and not precize.
> Nobody was using a UV location + dotproduct method, and imho that's by far
> the most efficient method.
> The hardest thinking was "how should I wire it in Houdini way of working
> ?". I came up with one Vop HDA, and one SOP HDA (which is simply the vop
> compounded).
> The great "plus" with Houdini, is that it's able to transfer values of any
> context (point, prim, you name it, ..)
> I'll try to record something.
>
> I think there's a large place for improvement in H for everything that
> concerns arrays. In ice, there was a lot of things to do with arrays ,
> hence the speed. And the ice tools were super efficient for that. In
> Houdini, there's a kind of "thinking" that as VOP by nature is looping
> through points it is an "enough" solution.
> Well, "maybe" but it's so criptic that unless you're a vex/C/python
> programmer I find it very time consumming to understand. Plus there are no
> doc samples or tut, a part from the one from Mikael Perterssen http://
> shortandsweet3d.blogspot.fr/. That makes me wonder if other people really
> consider or understand this.
> Also, if you compare Peter Quint and Mikael way to deal with States, hell,
> I'm 200% on the ice method.
>
>
> 2017-03-28 20:39 GMT+02:00 Olivier Jeannel :
>
>> I'm a morron, but I'd love to have exclusive pure Ice minded HDA library.
>>
>> 2017-03-28 20:29 GMT+02:00 Rob Chapman :
>>
>>> Thought I'd pipe in since tekano got invoked, also slowly attemting to
>>> transition and agree with most already said and thanks, is already a huge
>>> pointer to as yet unknown aspects and features of how complex houdini is.
>>>  also would be interested in a more 'compounded' way of learning Houdini
>>> like ice was introduced. Everything a compound node of nested compound
>>> logic with exact same UI logic and Core nodes and complexity under the hood
>>> but still accessable in a single click and an 'easy for artists' ability to
>>> follow the logic flow into further nested compounds and see how it was
>>> made. Not so with houdini yet  open one compound and is equivalent to
>>> inside of the neighborhood telephone junction box. Part of the enjoyment,
>>> for me, was building own logic and then seeing the contrast of the
>>> 'Softimage' way, and for sure, if you are building something fairly complex
>>> requiring macro detailed interactions with something of a much larger
>>> scale, eg characters running through a several fields of flowers,  then
>>> somethings can be improved or optimised from the off the shelf examples.
>>> Otherwise prepare for big data and long iteration times. It seems covering
>>> all bases like the 'houdini' way is fine for examples and base setup but
>>> not so in more complicated tasks is better to be good at understanding
>>> which bits to leave out.  or be able rapidly prototype your own. I think
>>> like Mr Bolland has done and Pooby is asking for is these intermediate
>>> compounds between that Softimage bought with it to help us poor artists out
>>> 
>>>
>>> --
>>> Softimage Mailing List.
>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

Hi Olivier, where do you see the biggest difference with ICE arrays and 
Houdini arrays? In both you have ways of adding, removing, sorting, etc. 
elements in the array in whatever context you're in, no?


A

On 29/03/2017 09:48, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

An example of something we own as ice user :
One of the first thing I replicated was the Modulate by Volume.
When I arrived on Houdini and saw all those tutorial with people using 
the Attribute transfer, I tried to use it myself and was horrified : I 
found it slow and not precize.
Nobody was using a UV location + dotproduct method, and imho that's by 
far the most efficient method.
The hardest thinking was "how should I wire it in Houdini way of 
working ?". I came up with one Vop HDA, and one SOP HDA (which is 
simply the vop compounded).
The great "plus" with Houdini, is that it's able to transfer values of 
any context (point, prim, you name it, ..)

I'll try to record something.

I think there's a large place for improvement in H for everything that 
concerns arrays. In ice, there was a lot of things to do with arrays , 
hence the speed. And the ice tools were super efficient for that. In 
Houdini, there's a kind of "thinking" that as VOP by nature is looping 
through points it is an "enough" solution.
Well, "maybe" but it's so criptic that unless you're a vex/C/python 
programmer I find it very time consumming to understand. Plus there 
are no doc samples or tut, a part from the one from Mikael Perterssen 
http://shortandsweet3d.blogspot.fr/. That makes me wonder if other 
people really consider or understand this.
Also, if you compare Peter Quint and Mikael way to deal with States, 
hell, I'm 200% on the ice method.



2017-03-28 20:39 GMT+02:00 Olivier Jeannel >:


I'm a morron, but I'd love to have exclusive pure Ice minded HDA
library.

2017-03-28 20:29 GMT+02:00 Rob Chapman >:

Thought I'd pipe in since tekano got invoked, also slowly
attemting to transition and agree with most already said and
thanks, is already a huge pointer to as yet unknown aspects
and features of how complex houdini is.
 also would be interested in a more 'compounded' way of
learning Houdini like ice was introduced. Everything a
compound node of nested compound logic with exact same UI
logic and Core nodes and complexity under the hood but still
accessable in a single click and an 'easy for artists' ability
to follow the logic flow into further nested compounds and see
how it was made. Not so with houdini yet  open one compound
and is equivalent to inside of the neighborhood telephone
junction box. Part of the enjoyment, for me, was building own
logic and then seeing the contrast of the 'Softimage' way, and
for sure, if you are building something fairly complex
requiring macro detailed interactions with something of a much
larger scale, eg characters running through a several fields
of flowers,  then somethings can be improved or optimised from
the off the shelf examples.  Otherwise prepare for big data
and long iteration times. It seems covering all bases like the
'houdini' way is fine for examples and base setup but not so
in more complicated tasks is better to be good at
understanding which bits to leave out.  or be able rapidly
prototype your own. I think like Mr Bolland has done and Pooby
is asking for is these intermediate compounds between that
Softimage bought with it to help us poor artists out 

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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-29 Thread Olivier Jeannel

An example of something we own as ice user :
One of the first thing I replicated was the Modulate by Volume.
When I arrived on Houdini and saw all those tutorial with people using the
Attribute transfer, I tried to use it myself and was horrified : I found it
slow and not precize.
Nobody was using a UV location + dotproduct method, and imho that's by far
the most efficient method.
The hardest thinking was "how should I wire it in Houdini way of working
?". I came up with one Vop HDA, and one SOP HDA (which is simply the vop
compounded).
The great "plus" with Houdini, is that it's able to transfer values of any
context (point, prim, you name it, ..)
I'll try to record something.

I think there's a large place for improvement in H for everything that
concerns arrays. In ice, there was a lot of things to do with arrays ,
hence the speed. And the ice tools were super efficient for that. In
Houdini, there's a kind of "thinking" that as VOP by nature is looping
through points it is an "enough" solution.
Well, "maybe" but it's so criptic that unless you're a vex/C/python
programmer I find it very time consumming to understand. Plus there are no
doc samples or tut, a part from the one from Mikael Perterssen
http://shortandsweet3d.blogspot.fr/. That makes me wonder if other people
really consider or understand this.
Also, if you compare Peter Quint and Mikael way to deal with States, hell,
I'm 200% on the ice method.


2017-03-28 20:39 GMT+02:00 Olivier Jeannel :

> I'm a morron, but I'd love to have exclusive pure Ice minded HDA library.
>
> 2017-03-28 20:29 GMT+02:00 Rob Chapman :
>
>> Thought I'd pipe in since tekano got invoked, also slowly attemting to
>> transition and agree with most already said and thanks, is already a huge
>> pointer to as yet unknown aspects and features of how complex houdini is.
>>  also would be interested in a more 'compounded' way of learning Houdini
>> like ice was introduced. Everything a compound node of nested compound
>> logic with exact same UI logic and Core nodes and complexity under the hood
>> but still accessable in a single click and an 'easy for artists' ability to
>> follow the logic flow into further nested compounds and see how it was
>> made. Not so with houdini yet  open one compound and is equivalent to
>> inside of the neighborhood telephone junction box. Part of the enjoyment,
>> for me, was building own logic and then seeing the contrast of the
>> 'Softimage' way, and for sure, if you are building something fairly complex
>> requiring macro detailed interactions with something of a much larger
>> scale, eg characters running through a several fields of flowers,  then
>> somethings can be improved or optimised from the off the shelf examples.
>> Otherwise prepare for big data and long iteration times. It seems covering
>> all bases like the 'houdini' way is fine for examples and base setup but
>> not so in more complicated tasks is better to be good at understanding
>> which bits to leave out.  or be able rapidly prototype your own. I think
>> like Mr Bolland has done and Pooby is asking for is these intermediate
>> compounds between that Softimage bought with it to help us poor artists out
>> 
>>
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>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>
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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-28 Thread Olivier Jeannel

I'm a morron, but I'd love to have exclusive pure Ice minded HDA library.

2017-03-28 20:29 GMT+02:00 Rob Chapman :

> Thought I'd pipe in since tekano got invoked, also slowly attemting to
> transition and agree with most already said and thanks, is already a huge
> pointer to as yet unknown aspects and features of how complex houdini is.
>  also would be interested in a more 'compounded' way of learning Houdini
> like ice was introduced. Everything a compound node of nested compound
> logic with exact same UI logic and Core nodes and complexity under the hood
> but still accessable in a single click and an 'easy for artists' ability to
> follow the logic flow into further nested compounds and see how it was
> made. Not so with houdini yet  open one compound and is equivalent to
> inside of the neighborhood telephone junction box. Part of the enjoyment,
> for me, was building own logic and then seeing the contrast of the
> 'Softimage' way, and for sure, if you are building something fairly complex
> requiring macro detailed interactions with something of a much larger
> scale, eg characters running through a several fields of flowers,  then
> somethings can be improved or optimised from the off the shelf examples.
> Otherwise prepare for big data and long iteration times. It seems covering
> all bases like the 'houdini' way is fine for examples and base setup but
> not so in more complicated tasks is better to be good at understanding
> which bits to leave out.  or be able rapidly prototype your own. I think
> like Mr Bolland has done and Pooby is asking for is these intermediate
> compounds between that Softimage bought with it to help us poor artists out
> 
>
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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-28 Thread Rob Chapman

Thought I'd pipe in since tekano got invoked, also slowly attemting to
transition and agree with most already said and thanks, is already a huge
pointer to as yet unknown aspects and features of how complex houdini is.
 also would be interested in a more 'compounded' way of learning Houdini
like ice was introduced. Everything a compound node of nested compound
logic with exact same UI logic and Core nodes and complexity under the hood
but still accessable in a single click and an 'easy for artists' ability to
follow the logic flow into further nested compounds and see how it was
made. Not so with houdini yet  open one compound and is equivalent to
inside of the neighborhood telephone junction box. Part of the enjoyment,
for me, was building own logic and then seeing the contrast of the
'Softimage' way, and for sure, if you are building something fairly complex
requiring macro detailed interactions with something of a much larger
scale, eg characters running through a several fields of flowers,  then
somethings can be improved or optimised from the off the shelf examples.
Otherwise prepare for big data and long iteration times. It seems covering
all bases like the 'houdini' way is fine for examples and base setup but
not so in more complicated tasks is better to be good at understanding
which bits to leave out.  or be able rapidly prototype your own. I think
like Mr Bolland has done and Pooby is asking for is these intermediate
compounds between that Softimage bought with it to help us poor artists out

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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

Personally I think it makes sense to do something independent of qLib but
at the same time I think it's worthwhile consulting with the qLib chaps.

Someone else I think is worth involving is Nick Taylor. He's UK based and
has already put a library together inspired by qLib.

https://github.com/Aeoll/Aelib

https://vimeo.com/user27356169

The thing that worries me about a qLib only approach is not only a natural
avoidance I have for monolithic libraries but also a cultural one. Many in
the Houdini community are blind to it's faults because they've grown
accustomed to it's idiosyncrasies over the years. As Andy says theirs a lot
of passion in both communities which can be counter productive.

In saying all that if the qLib guy's are open to the direction of what's
being suggested here, qLib already has a very healthy install base so any
new workflows can be put in front of a significant community of Houdini
artists and that would benefit the feedback loop as 'compound' tools are
incrementally improved.


On 28 March 2017 at 17:41, Andy Nicholas  wrote:

> Haha! You're always the eternal optimist Jordi, to your credit :) Yep, I
> totally see what you're getting at. There's definitely value in the
> cross-pollenisation of experience, just as long as it doesn't become a
> clash of ideologies. We all know how passionate people can get!
>
> I guess I think of it more in terms of software libraries. I wouldn't ever
> recommend having a single monolithic library containing everything. Modular
> is good. Plus there's nothing stopping people bringing in some of the QLib
> guys to give advice anyway.
>
> A
>
>
> On 28/03/2017 17:26, Jordi Bares wrote:
>
>
> With regards to a Softimage library of tools. Great idea. Personally, I'd
> recommend doing it as a separate project to QLib as you'll no doubt want to
> introduce the Softimage "feel" to the tools that may or may not sit well
> with the other tools in QLib. Plus you'll want to have your own editorial
> control as to what you think a Softimage artist would want and collaborate
> with other Soft'ies. Definitely worth taking a look at QLib's assets though
> as you can learn a lot about what's possible.
>
> BTW, for those who haven't seen Houdini Galleries in action, I'd strongly
> recommend having a look as a nice fast alternative to having to build
> digital assets. Workflow wise, I find them much easier to use than HDA’s.
>
>
> Don’t you think it is precisely the balance between Softimage and Houdini
> together with in-depth qLib guys expertise that provides the real value?
>
> Let’s imagine you put all Softimage users in a room, they will try to copy
> Softimage… not good… Let’s imagine it is all Houdini users, they will
> ignore Softimage so my point really is that there is huge potential synergy
> in a mixed approach.
>
> Or I am being optimistic..  ;-)
> jb
>
> A
>
>
> On 28/03/2017 16:17, p...@bustykelp.com wrote:
>
> Yes. I have spent most of my time in VOPs so far and I have to say. I
> don’t find it as fun or fast as ICE to get stuff done and I don’t think its
> simply because I’m unfamiliar with it. Although of course that’s true to an
> extent.
> Not suggesting they have to replicate the ICE of doing things, but it
> could do with a bit of a user-friendly overhaul. I’m finding that I’m
> usually using about 3 times as many nodes to get things done, and finding
> it hard to ‘compound’ them because the compounds require a lot more inputs
> than in ICE.
> Can I save a ‘location’? and read it later? That would help.
> I also miss being able to execute lines..
>
>
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>
>
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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

Haha! You're always the eternal optimist Jordi, to your credit :) Yep, I 
totally see what you're getting at. There's definitely value in the 
cross-pollenisation of experience, just as long as it doesn't become a 
clash of ideologies. We all know how passionate people can get!


I guess I think of it more in terms of software libraries. I wouldn't 
ever recommend having a single monolithic library containing everything. 
Modular is good. Plus there's nothing stopping people bringing in some 
of the QLib guys to give advice anyway.


A

On 28/03/2017 17:26, Jordi Bares wrote:


With regards to a Softimage library of tools. Great idea. Personally, 
I'd recommend doing it as a separate project to QLib as you'll no 
doubt want to introduce the Softimage "feel" to the tools that may or 
may not sit well with the other tools in QLib. Plus you'll want to 
have your own editorial control as to what you think a Softimage 
artist would want and collaborate with other Soft'ies. Definitely 
worth taking a look at QLib's assets though as you can learn a lot 
about what's possible.


BTW, for those who haven't seen Houdini Galleries in action, I'd 
strongly recommend having a look as a nice fast alternative to having 
to build digital assets. Workflow wise, I find them much easier to 
use than HDA’s.


Don’t you think it is precisely the balance between Softimage and 
Houdini together with in-depth qLib guys expertise that provides the 
real value?


Let’s imagine you put all Softimage users in a room, they will try to 
copy Softimage… not good… Let’s imagine it is all Houdini users, they 
will ignore Softimage so my point really is that there is huge 
potential synergy in a mixed approach.


Or I am being optimistic..  ;-)
jb


A


On 28/03/2017 16:17, p...@bustykelp.com wrote:
Yes. I have spent most of my time in VOPs so far and I have to say. 
I don’t find it as fun or fast as ICE to get stuff done and I don’t 
think its simply because I’m unfamiliar with it. Although of course 
that’s true to an extent.
Not suggesting they have to replicate the ICE of doing things, but 
it could do with a bit of a user-friendly overhaul. I’m finding that 
I’m usually using about 3 times as many nodes to get things done, 
and finding it hard to ‘compound’ them because the compounds require 
a lot more inputs than in ICE.

Can I save a ‘location’? and read it later? That would help.
I also miss being able to execute lines..


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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-28 Thread Jordi Bares


> With regards to a Softimage library of tools. Great idea. Personally, I'd 
> recommend doing it as a separate project to QLib as you'll no doubt want to 
> introduce the Softimage "feel" to the tools that may or may not sit well with 
> the other tools in QLib. Plus you'll want to have your own editorial control 
> as to what you think a Softimage artist would want and collaborate with other 
> Soft'ies. Definitely worth taking a look at QLib's assets though as you can 
> learn a lot about what's possible.
> 
> BTW, for those who haven't seen Houdini Galleries in action, I'd strongly 
> recommend having a look as a nice fast alternative to having to build digital 
> assets. Workflow wise, I find them much easier to use than HDA’s.

Don’t you think it is precisely the balance between Softimage and Houdini 
together with in-depth qLib guys expertise that provides the real value?

Let’s imagine you put all Softimage users in a room, they will try to copy 
Softimage… not good… Let’s imagine it is all Houdini users, they will ignore 
Softimage so my point really is that there is huge potential synergy in a mixed 
approach.

Or I am being optimistic..  ;-)
jb

> A
> 
> 
> On 28/03/2017 16:17, p...@bustykelp.com  wrote:
>> Yes. I have spent most of my time in VOPs so far and I have to say. I don’t 
>> find it as fun or fast as ICE to get stuff done and I don’t think its simply 
>> because I’m unfamiliar with it. Although of course that’s true to an extent.
>> Not suggesting they have to replicate the ICE of doing things, but it could 
>> do with a bit of a user-friendly overhaul. I’m finding that I’m usually 
>> using about 3 times as many nodes to get things done, and finding it hard to 
>> ‘compound’ them because the compounds require a lot more inputs than in ICE.
>> Can I save a ‘location’? and read it later? That would help.
>> I also miss being able to execute lines..
> 
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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

Yep, totally agree with what's been said. Houdini tends to be a lot 
slower to develop stuff. Even simple tools can be tricky when you 
realise that you ideally need to take care of a lot of edge cases to 
make your tool work. E.g. what happens if someone supplies packed 
primitives instead of regular primitives to your inputs? Or volumes? How 
do you give visual feedback? Most people ignore these sorts of issues 
when making nodes including SideFX unfortunately.


Actually, error handling and user response is one of my most regular 
frustrations. Especially in DOPs where solvers are basically black 
boxes. So many times things just don't work but you have no idea why. It 
might be that your velocity field needs to be a VBD vector field instead 
of 3 x normal volumes called V.x, V.y, and V.z (see POP Advect By 
Volumes!). Or maybe you just named your DOP data slightly wrong in one 
node. Good luck finding that if you're in a rush, because it generally 
won't be shown as an error, and the documentation can be sorely lacking 
in the necessary details. I wish there was a mechanism in Houdini for 
digital assets to run some sort of test on its inputs to say "I expect 
" as I'm sure it would speed up peoples workflow.


Anyway, yes, compounds in XSI were so easy, just define your inputs and 
off you go. Houdini's a bit of a mixed bag, it gives you fantastic 
control and versatility at the expense of development speed.


With regards to a Softimage library of tools. Great idea. Personally, 
I'd recommend doing it as a separate project to QLib as you'll no doubt 
want to introduce the Softimage "feel" to the tools that may or may not 
sit well with the other tools in QLib. Plus you'll want to have your own 
editorial control as to what you think a Softimage artist would want and 
collaborate with other Soft'ies. Definitely worth taking a look at 
QLib's assets though as you can learn a lot about what's possible.


BTW, for those who haven't seen Houdini Galleries in action, I'd 
strongly recommend having a look as a nice fast alternative to having to 
build digital assets. Workflow wise, I find them much easier to use than 
HDA's.


A


On 28/03/2017 16:17, p...@bustykelp.com wrote:
Yes. I have spent most of my time in VOPs so far and I have to say. I 
don’t find it as fun or fast as ICE to get stuff done and I don’t 
think its simply because I’m unfamiliar with it. Although of course 
that’s true to an extent.
Not suggesting they have to replicate the ICE of doing things, but it 
could do with a bit of a user-friendly overhaul. I’m finding that I’m 
usually using about 3 times as many nodes to get things done, and 
finding it hard to ‘compound’ them because the compounds require a lot 
more inputs than in ICE.

Can I save a ‘location’? and read it later? That would help.
I also miss being able to execute lines..


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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-28 Thread Jordi Bares

IMHO adding onto qLib is a winner because you will have top support on their 
side on how to do it correctly so if there is any initiative, these guys know 
their stuff (I have contributed 2 tools myself and believe me, took me a while 
to get approved which is great)

jb

> On 28 Mar 2017, at 16:21, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I don’t have the all-round programming experience for this but I’d be more 
> than happy to meet up with a few willing volunteers to explore how we can 
> work together as a team. qLib is a fantastic achievement and I’m sure 
> something similar could be achieved. Whether it would be part and parcel of 
> the qLib library or something new, it’s a great idea.
>   <>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> 
> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] On Behalf Of Jordi Bares
> Sent: 28 March 2017 16:12
> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list><softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>  <mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>>
> Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>  
> If there is one initiative I would love to see is those things you miss to be 
> shared via qLib (for example)
>  
> Anyone?
>  
> jb
>  
>> On 28 Mar 2017, at 16:08, Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>  
>> My guess is that maybe we can improve VOP a lot ourselves by bringing some 
>> ICE in it. There are a lot of ICE logic and Ice compound that could be 
>> translated. Of course, it would be a benefit for side SideFX to hire a 
>> hardcore ICE guy.
>>  
>> 2017-03-28 16:56 GMT+02:00 Andy Goehler <lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com>>:
>>> Very well put about the ICE ‘macros’.
>>>  
>>> Not to forget to mention that until such ‘factory’ nodes are provided, 
>>> there’s always the option to do it yourself and save it as an asset (HDA).
>>>  
>>> Andy
>>>  
>>>> On Mar 28, 2017, at 4:49 PM, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com 
>>>> <mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>  
>>>> I think the thing that can cause frustration when applying an ICE mindset 
>>>> to Houdini is that ICE had quite a few macro helpers even when working at 
>>>> a micro level. VEX and VOP functions in Houdini by comparison are often 
>>>> far more granular. That means that functionality provided by a single node 
>>>> in XSI often requires multiple nodes/functions in Houdini. I’m hoping that 
>>>> VOPs is further developed to include a library of ‘Compound’ like macros. 
>>>> If there’s any area’s where former XSI artists could help the SideFX 
>>>> developers improve Houdini, this seems like a winner to me. <>
>>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
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>>> subject, and reply to confirm.
>> 
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RE: Random Thoughts about H.

I don’t have the all-round programming experience for this but I’d be more than 
happy to meet up with a few willing volunteers to explore how we can work 
together as a team. qLib is a fantastic achievement and I’m sure something 
similar could be achieved. Whether it would be part and parcel of the qLib 
library or something new, it’s a great idea.

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jordi Bares
Sent: 28 March 2017 16:12
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

 

If there is one initiative I would love to see is those things you miss to be 
shared via qLib (for example)

 

Anyone?

 

jb

 

On 28 Mar 2017, at 16:08, Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com 
<mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

My guess is that maybe we can improve VOP a lot ourselves by bringing some ICE 
in it. There are a lot of ICE logic and Ice compound that could be translated. 
Of course, it would be a benefit for side SideFX to hire a hardcore ICE guy.

 

2017-03-28 16:56 GMT+02:00 Andy Goehler <lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com 
<mailto:lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com> >:

Very well put about the ICE ‘macros’.

 

Not to forget to mention that until such ‘factory’ nodes are provided, there’s 
always the option to do it yourself and save it as an asset (HDA).

 

Andy

 

On Mar 28, 2017, at 4:49 PM, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com 
<mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

I think the thing that can cause frustration when applying an ICE mindset to 
Houdini is that ICE had quite a few macro helpers even when working at a micro 
level. VEX and VOP functions in Houdini by comparison are often far more 
granular. That means that functionality provided by a single node in XSI often 
requires multiple nodes/functions in Houdini. I’m hoping that VOPs is further 
developed to include a library of ‘Compound’ like macros. If there’s any area’s 
where former XSI artists could help the SideFX developers improve Houdini, this 
seems like a winner to me.

 


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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

Yes. I have spent most of my time in VOPs so far and I have to say. I don’t 
find it as fun or fast as ICE to get stuff done and I don’t think its simply 
because I’m unfamiliar with it. Although of course that’s true to an extent.
Not suggesting they have to replicate the ICE of doing things, but it could do 
with a bit of a user-friendly overhaul. I’m finding that I’m usually using 
about 3 times as many nodes to get things done, and finding it hard to 
‘compound’ them because the compounds require a lot more inputs than in ICE.
Can I save a ‘location’? and read it later? That would help.
I also miss being able to execute lines..

From: Olivier Jeannel 
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 4:08 PM
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing 
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

My guess is that maybe we can improve VOP a lot ourselves by bringing some ICE 
in it. There are a lot of ICE logic and Ice compound that could be translated. 
Of course, it would be a benefit for side SideFX to hire a hardcore ICE guy.

2017-03-28 16:56 GMT+02:00 Andy Goehler <lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com>:

  Very well put about the ICE ‘macros’.

  Not to forget to mention that until such ‘factory’ nodes are provided, 
there’s always the option to do it yourself and save it as an asset (HDA).

  Andy


On Mar 28, 2017, at 4:49 PM, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

I think the thing that can cause frustration when applying an ICE mindset 
to Houdini is that ICE had quite a few macro helpers even when working at a 
micro level. VEX and VOP functions in Houdini by comparison are often far more 
granular. That means that functionality provided by a single node in XSI often 
requires multiple nodes/functions in Houdini. I’m hoping that VOPs is further 
developed to include a library of ‘Compound’ like macros. If there’s any area’s 
where former XSI artists could help the SideFX developers improve Houdini, this 
seems like a winner to me.


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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-28 Thread Tim Bolland

I started translating some of the ICE compounds in VOPs, and by 'start', I made 
3... But I plan to keep adding more. So far I have "get closest location", 
"turbulize value by range", and "linear interperlate". For the stuff that's 
basically maths you can go into the compounds and copy it one for one. However 
I find the whole digital asset system a massive overkill considering how simple 
the compound workflow is in Soft.


Cheers,

Tim


From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
<softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Olivier Jeannel 
<facialdel...@gmail.com>
Sent: 28 March 2017 16:08
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

My guess is that maybe we can improve VOP a lot ourselves by bringing some ICE 
in it. There are a lot of ICE logic and Ice compound that could be translated. 
Of course, it would be a benefit for side SideFX to hire a hardcore ICE guy.

2017-03-28 16:56 GMT+02:00 Andy Goehler 
<lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com<mailto:lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com>>:
Very well put about the ICE ‘macros’.

Not to forget to mention that until such ‘factory’ nodes are provided, there’s 
always the option to do it yourself and save it as an asset (HDA).

Andy

On Mar 28, 2017, at 4:49 PM, Jonathan Moore 
<jonathan.moo...@gmail.com<mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I think the thing that can cause frustration when applying an ICE mindset to 
Houdini is that ICE had quite a few macro helpers even when working at a micro 
level. VEX and VOP functions in Houdini by comparison are often far more 
granular. That means that functionality provided by a single node in XSI often 
requires multiple nodes/functions in Houdini. I’m hoping that VOPs is further 
developed to include a library of ‘Compound’ like macros. If there’s any area’s 
where former XSI artists could help the SideFX developers improve Houdini, this 
seems like a winner to me.


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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-28 Thread Olivier Jeannel

My guess is that maybe we can improve VOP a lot ourselves by bringing some
ICE in it. There are a lot of ICE logic and Ice compound that could be
translated. Of course, it would be a benefit for side SideFX to hire a
hardcore ICE guy.

2017-03-28 16:56 GMT+02:00 Andy Goehler :

> Very well put about the ICE ‘macros’.
>
> Not to forget to mention that until such ‘factory’ nodes are provided,
> there’s always the option to do it yourself and save it as an asset (HDA).
>
> Andy
>
> On Mar 28, 2017, at 4:49 PM, Jonathan Moore 
> wrote:
>
> I think the thing that can cause frustration when applying an ICE mindset
> to Houdini is that ICE had quite a few macro helpers even when working at a
> micro level. VEX and VOP functions in Houdini by comparison are often far
> more granular. That means that functionality provided by a single node in
> XSI often requires multiple nodes/functions in Houdini. I’m hoping that
> VOPs is further developed to include a library of ‘Compound’ like macros.
> If there’s any area’s where former XSI artists could help the SideFX
> developers improve Houdini, this seems like a winner to me.
>
>
>
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-28 Thread Andy Goehler

Very well put about the ICE ‘macros’.

Not to forget to mention that until such ‘factory’ nodes are provided, there’s 
always the option to do it yourself and save it as an asset (HDA).

Andy

> On Mar 28, 2017, at 4:49 PM, Jonathan Moore  wrote:
> 
> I think the thing that can cause frustration when applying an ICE mindset to 
> Houdini is that ICE had quite a few macro helpers even when working at a 
> micro level. VEX and VOP functions in Houdini by comparison are often far 
> more granular. That means that functionality provided by a single node in XSI 
> often requires multiple nodes/functions in Houdini. I’m hoping that VOPs is 
> further developed to include a library of ‘Compound’ like macros. If there’s 
> any area’s where former XSI artists could help the SideFX developers improve 
> Houdini, this seems like a winner to me. <>
>  
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Softimage Mailing List.
To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
"unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

RE: Random Thoughts about H.

I think the thing that can cause frustration when applying an ICE mindset to 
Houdini is that ICE had quite a few macro helpers even when working at a micro 
level. VEX and VOP functions in Houdini by comparison are often far more 
granular. That means that functionality provided by a single node in XSI often 
requires multiple nodes/functions in Houdini. I’m hoping that VOPs is further 
developed to include a library of ‘Compound’ like macros. If there’s any area’s 
where former XSI artists could help the SideFX developers improve Houdini, this 
seems like a winner to me.

 

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Fabricio Chamon
Sent: 28 March 2017 15:26
To: p...@bustykelp.com; Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

 

putting my little knowledge to action:

 

from what I understand about your question, you need to store your calculated 
data as an attribute (per point, in this case). Then just refer to it at other 
nodes on your tree. While at the object context there's no such a thing as a 
generalized "get" node, because you'll be using the attribute value directly 
inside nodes (at input parameters or inside vex on the "...wrangle" nodes). 
Inside VOPs the equivalent to ICE "get data" is the "bind" node and equivalent 
to "set data" node is "bind export" node.

 

Is that what you asked?

 

2017-03-28 16:07 GMT+02:00 <p...@bustykelp.com <mailto:p...@bustykelp.com> >:

thanks for the replies. much appreciated 

What I really want to know is not so much how to do the maths to calculate a 
PRF , as I have that working. 

In ICE, when you ‘get pointreferenceframe’ it automatically calculates it on 
the location and feeds you the result but its just a GET .. Is there a way of 
triggering a similar behaviour, rather than literally connecting maths nodes to 
calculate it yourself. for example would it have to be done in VEX? so you have 
one node which does the work and feeds you a PRF?

 

 

 

From: Olivier Jeannel <mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com>  

Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 12:24 PM

To: Official Softimage Users Mailing 
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>  

Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

 

Not exactly the Point Reference frame, but I used this method to get "solid" 
rotation on a projetc. Not sure it's simple enough, as you have to feed the 
orient attribute with something to start using it localy. 

https://vimeo.com/207626604

 

2017-03-28 11:51 GMT+02:00 Fabricio Chamon <xsiml...@gmail.com 
<mailto:xsiml...@gmail.com> >:

whaaat? that is do comforting. =) 

nice job sidefx

 

2017-03-28 11:42 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com 
<mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com> >:

Very impressive indeed.

 

From:  <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: 
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas
Sent: 28 March 2017 09:47
To:  <mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> softimage@listproc.autodesk.com


Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

 

Hahahaha! That's amazing :) When I got an email from SideFX changing the status 
of the RFE to "Fixed", I just assumed that they had agreed that it was a valid 
request that they'd look into, not that they'd actually gone and bloody done 
it. Well done SideFX!

In case he's still reading this thread, thanks to Mark Tucker at SideFX who 
dealt with this so promptly.

A

On 28/03/2017 08:31, Andy Goehler wrote:

Good morning,

 

this is the awesome support at SideFX

 

Available in the daily builds.


yesterday


  <https://www.sidefx.com/media/uploads/changelog/icons/icon_netui.jpg> 

Houdini 16.0.561

Added a hotkey to temporary toggle the state of the "Allow Dropping Nodes on 
Wires" preference while in the middle of dragging a node.

 

 

On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 at 12:22, Andy Nicholas < <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com> 
a...@andynicholas.com> wrote:

No problem Jonathan.

A quick update to this following discussions with SideFX:

1) I don't recall if this was mentioned in the thread earlier, but they 
mentioned that you can enable/disable the auto-connect on wires using CTRL+8 or 
in the Network View menu under Tools-> Allow Dropping Nodes on Wires. This 
doesn't work during a drag operation though, so I've gone back and explained 
the desired workflow of having a modifier key to toggle the behaviour during 
the dragging of nodes. I just thought I'd post this in here now case it's 
useful to anyone in the mean time.

2) They pointed out that I was incorrect when I said earlier

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-28 Thread Fabricio Chamon

putting my little knowledge to action:

from what I understand about your question, you need to store your
calculated data as an attribute (per point, in this case). Then just refer
to it at other nodes on your tree. While at the object context there's no
such a thing as a generalized "get" node, because you'll be using the
attribute value directly inside nodes (at input parameters or inside vex on
the "...wrangle" nodes). Inside VOPs the equivalent to ICE "get data" is
the "bind" node and equivalent to "set data" node is "bind export" node.

Is that what you asked?

2017-03-28 16:07 GMT+02:00 <p...@bustykelp.com>:

> thanks for the replies. much appreciated
> What I really want to know is not so much how to do the maths to calculate
> a PRF , as I have that working.
> In ICE, when you ‘get pointreferenceframe’ it automatically calculates it
> on the location and feeds you the result but its just a GET .. Is there a
> way of triggering a similar behaviour, rather than literally connecting
> maths nodes to calculate it yourself. for example would it have to be done
> in VEX? so you have one node which does the work and feeds you a PRF?
>
>
>
> *From:* Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 28, 2017 12:24 PM
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.https://groups.google.
> com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>
> Not exactly the Point Reference frame, but I used this method to get
> "solid" rotation on a projetc. Not sure it's simple enough, as you have to
> feed the orient attribute with something to start using it localy.
> https://vimeo.com/207626604
>
> 2017-03-28 11:51 GMT+02:00 Fabricio Chamon <xsiml...@gmail.com>:
>
>> whaaat? that is do comforting. =)
>> nice job sidefx
>>
>> 2017-03-28 11:42 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Very impressive indeed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Andy Nicholas
>>> *Sent:* 28 March 2017 09:47
>>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hahahaha! That's amazing :) When I got an email from SideFX changing the
>>> status of the RFE to "Fixed", I just assumed that they had agreed that it
>>> was a valid request that they'd look into, not that they'd actually gone
>>> and bloody done it. Well done SideFX!
>>>
>>> In case he's still reading this thread, thanks to Mark Tucker at SideFX
>>> who dealt with this so promptly.
>>>
>>> A
>>>
>>> On 28/03/2017 08:31, Andy Goehler wrote:
>>>
>>> Good morning,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> this is the awesome support at SideFX
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Available in the daily builds.
>>>
>>> yesterday
>>>
>>> Houdini 16.0.561
>>>
>>> Added a hotkey to temporary toggle the state of the "Allow Dropping
>>> Nodes on Wires" preference while in the middle of dragging a node.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 at 12:22, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> No problem Jonathan.
>>>
>>> A quick update to this following discussions with SideFX:
>>>
>>> 1) I don't recall if this was mentioned in the thread earlier, but they
>>> mentioned that you can enable/disable the auto-connect on wires using
>>> CTRL+8 or in the Network View menu under Tools-> Allow Dropping Nodes on
>>> Wires. This doesn't work during a drag operation though, so I've gone back
>>> and explained the desired workflow of having a modifier key to toggle the
>>> behaviour during the dragging of nodes. I just thought I'd post this in
>>> here now case it's useful to anyone in the mean time.
>>>
>>> 2) They pointed out that I was incorrect when I said earlier in this
>>> thread there wasn't an equivalent view of Softimage's Explorer view where
>>> you can see clean hierarchies of objects. You can do it in the Tree View.
>>> You just need to enable the Object Filter (the first button in the Tree
>>> View's tool bar). You can also right click on the Tree View toolbar, and
>>> there are various other options in there which can be helpful for sorting
>>> and gr

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

thanks for the replies. much appreciated 
What I really want to know is not so much how to do the maths to calculate a 
PRF , as I have that working. 
In ICE, when you ‘get pointreferenceframe’ it automatically calculates it on 
the location and feeds you the result but its just a GET .. Is there a way of 
triggering a similar behaviour, rather than literally connecting maths nodes to 
calculate it yourself. for example would it have to be done in VEX? so you have 
one node which does the work and feeds you a PRF?



From: Olivier Jeannel 
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 12:24 PM
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing 
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

Not exactly the Point Reference frame, but I used this method to get "solid" 
rotation on a projetc. Not sure it's simple enough, as you have to feed the 
orient attribute with something to start using it localy. 
https://vimeo.com/207626604


2017-03-28 11:51 GMT+02:00 Fabricio Chamon <xsiml...@gmail.com>:

  whaaat? that is do comforting. =) 
  nice job sidefx

  2017-03-28 11:42 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>:

Very impressive indeed.



From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas
Sent: 28 March 2017 09:47
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com


    Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.


Hahahaha! That's amazing :) When I got an email from SideFX changing the 
status of the RFE to "Fixed", I just assumed that they had agreed that it was a 
valid request that they'd look into, not that they'd actually gone and bloody 
done it. Well done SideFX!

In case he's still reading this thread, thanks to Mark Tucker at SideFX who 
dealt with this so promptly.

A



On 28/03/2017 08:31, Andy Goehler wrote:

  Good morning,



  this is the awesome support at SideFX



  Available in the daily builds.

yesterday
   

   Houdini 16.0.561
   Added a hotkey to temporary toggle the state of the "Allow Dropping 
Nodes on Wires" preference while in the middle of dragging a node.
   





  On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 at 12:22, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com> wrote:

No problem Jonathan.

A quick update to this following discussions with SideFX:

1) I don't recall if this was mentioned in the thread earlier, but they 
mentioned that you can enable/disable the auto-connect on wires using CTRL+8 or 
in the Network View menu under Tools-> Allow Dropping Nodes on Wires. This 
doesn't work during a drag operation though, so I've gone back and explained 
the desired workflow of having a modifier key to toggle the behaviour during 
the dragging of nodes. I just thought I'd post this in here now case it's 
useful to anyone in the mean time.

2) They pointed out that I was incorrect when I said earlier in this 
thread there wasn't an equivalent view of Softimage's Explorer view where you 
can see clean hierarchies of objects. You can do it in the Tree View. You just 
need to enable the Object Filter (the first button in the Tree View's tool 
bar). You can also right click on the Tree View toolbar, and there are various 
other options in there which can be helpful for sorting and grouping the 
objects in a tree structure. Definitely worth playing with anyway. Sorry for 
the misinformation before!

Cheers,
A



On 26/03/2017 13:55, Jonathan Moore wrote:

  Thanks Andy. 



  From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas
  Sent: 26 March 2017 00:37
  To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
  Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.



I also like Pauls idea of a modifier key to disable the auto 
connection on demand. Definitely seems a worthwhile enhancement request.



  FYI, I’ve submitted an RFE to Side Effects and sent them the link to 
this thread.



  A







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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-28 Thread Olivier Jeannel

Not exactly the Point Reference frame, but I used this method to get
"solid" rotation on a projetc. Not sure it's simple enough, as you have to
feed the orient attribute with something to start using it localy.
https://vimeo.com/207626604

2017-03-28 11:51 GMT+02:00 Fabricio Chamon <xsiml...@gmail.com>:

> whaaat? that is do comforting. =)
> nice job sidefx
>
> 2017-03-28 11:42 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Very impressive indeed.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Andy Nicholas
>> *Sent:* 28 March 2017 09:47
>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hahahaha! That's amazing :) When I got an email from SideFX changing the
>> status of the RFE to "Fixed", I just assumed that they had agreed that it
>> was a valid request that they'd look into, not that they'd actually gone
>> and bloody done it. Well done SideFX!
>>
>> In case he's still reading this thread, thanks to Mark Tucker at SideFX
>> who dealt with this so promptly.
>>
>> A
>>
>> On 28/03/2017 08:31, Andy Goehler wrote:
>>
>> Good morning,
>>
>>
>>
>> this is the awesome support at SideFX
>>
>>
>>
>> Available in the daily builds.
>>
>> yesterday
>>
>> Houdini 16.0.561
>>
>> Added a hotkey to temporary toggle the state of the "Allow Dropping Nodes
>> on Wires" preference while in the middle of dragging a node.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 at 12:22, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> No problem Jonathan.
>>
>> A quick update to this following discussions with SideFX:
>>
>> 1) I don't recall if this was mentioned in the thread earlier, but they
>> mentioned that you can enable/disable the auto-connect on wires using
>> CTRL+8 or in the Network View menu under Tools-> Allow Dropping Nodes on
>> Wires. This doesn't work during a drag operation though, so I've gone back
>> and explained the desired workflow of having a modifier key to toggle the
>> behaviour during the dragging of nodes. I just thought I'd post this in
>> here now case it's useful to anyone in the mean time.
>>
>> 2) They pointed out that I was incorrect when I said earlier in this
>> thread there wasn't an equivalent view of Softimage's Explorer view where
>> you can see clean hierarchies of objects. You can do it in the Tree View.
>> You just need to enable the Object Filter (the first button in the Tree
>> View's tool bar). You can also right click on the Tree View toolbar, and
>> there are various other options in there which can be helpful for sorting
>> and grouping the objects in a tree structure. Definitely worth playing with
>> anyway. Sorry for the misinformation before!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> A
>>
>>
>>
>> On 26/03/2017 13:55, Jonathan Moore wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Andy.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [
>> mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> <softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] *On Behalf Of *Andy Nicholas
>> *Sent:* 26 March 2017 00:37
>> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
>> <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>>
>>
>>
>> I also like Pauls idea of a modifier key to disable the auto connection
>> on demand. Definitely seems a worthwhile enhancement request.
>>
>>
>>
>> FYI, I’ve submitted an RFE to Side Effects and sent them the link to this
>> thread.
>>
>>
>>
>> A
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>>
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
>> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>>
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
>> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>
>
>
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> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-28 Thread Fabricio Chamon

whaaat? that is do comforting. =)
nice job sidefx

2017-03-28 11:42 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>:

> Very impressive indeed.
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-bounces@
> listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Andy Nicholas
> *Sent:* 28 March 2017 09:47
> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>
>
>
> Hahahaha! That's amazing :) When I got an email from SideFX changing the
> status of the RFE to "Fixed", I just assumed that they had agreed that it
> was a valid request that they'd look into, not that they'd actually gone
> and bloody done it. Well done SideFX!
>
> In case he's still reading this thread, thanks to Mark Tucker at SideFX
> who dealt with this so promptly.
>
> A
>
> On 28/03/2017 08:31, Andy Goehler wrote:
>
> Good morning,
>
>
>
> this is the awesome support at SideFX
>
>
>
> Available in the daily builds.
>
> yesterday
>
> Houdini 16.0.561
>
> Added a hotkey to temporary toggle the state of the "Allow Dropping Nodes
> on Wires" preference while in the middle of dragging a node.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 at 12:22, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com> wrote:
>
> No problem Jonathan.
>
> A quick update to this following discussions with SideFX:
>
> 1) I don't recall if this was mentioned in the thread earlier, but they
> mentioned that you can enable/disable the auto-connect on wires using
> CTRL+8 or in the Network View menu under Tools-> Allow Dropping Nodes on
> Wires. This doesn't work during a drag operation though, so I've gone back
> and explained the desired workflow of having a modifier key to toggle the
> behaviour during the dragging of nodes. I just thought I'd post this in
> here now case it's useful to anyone in the mean time.
>
> 2) They pointed out that I was incorrect when I said earlier in this
> thread there wasn't an equivalent view of Softimage's Explorer view where
> you can see clean hierarchies of objects. You can do it in the Tree View.
> You just need to enable the Object Filter (the first button in the Tree
> View's tool bar). You can also right click on the Tree View toolbar, and
> there are various other options in there which can be helpful for sorting
> and grouping the objects in a tree structure. Definitely worth playing with
> anyway. Sorry for the misinformation before!
>
> Cheers,
> A
>
>
>
> On 26/03/2017 13:55, Jonathan Moore wrote:
>
> Thanks Andy.
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-bounces@
> listproc.autodesk.com <softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Andy Nicholas
> *Sent:* 26 March 2017 00:37
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/
> forum/#!forum/xsi_list <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
> <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>
>
>
> I also like Pauls idea of a modifier key to disable the auto connection on
> demand. Definitely seems a worthwhile enhancement request.
>
>
>
> FYI, I’ve submitted an RFE to Side Effects and sent them the link to this
> thread.
>
>
>
> A
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Softimage Mailing List.
>
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
>
>
> --
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> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Softimage Mailing List.
>
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
>
>
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> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
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RE: Random Thoughts about H.

Very impressive indeed.

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas
Sent: 28 March 2017 09:47
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

Hahahaha! That's amazing :) When I got an email from SideFX changing the
status of the RFE to "Fixed", I just assumed that they had agreed that it
was a valid request that they'd look into, not that they'd actually gone and
bloody done it. Well done SideFX!

In case he's still reading this thread, thanks to Mark Tucker at SideFX who
dealt with this so promptly.

A

On 28/03/2017 08:31, Andy Goehler wrote:

Good morning,

this is the awesome support at SideFX

Available in the daily builds.

yesterday

  <https://www.sidefx.com/media/uploads/changelog/icons/icon_netui.jpg> 

Houdini 16.0.561

Added a hotkey to temporary toggle the state of the "Allow Dropping Nodes on
Wires" preference while in the middle of dragging a node.

On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 at 12:22, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com> > wrote:

No problem Jonathan.

A quick update to this following discussions with SideFX:

1) I don't recall if this was mentioned in the thread earlier, but they
mentioned that you can enable/disable the auto-connect on wires using CTRL+8
or in the Network View menu under Tools-> Allow Dropping Nodes on Wires.
This doesn't work during a drag operation though, so I've gone back and
explained the desired workflow of having a modifier key to toggle the
behaviour during the dragging of nodes. I just thought I'd post this in here
now case it's useful to anyone in the mean time.

2) They pointed out that I was incorrect when I said earlier in this thread
there wasn't an equivalent view of Softimage's Explorer view where you can
see clean hierarchies of objects. You can do it in the Tree View. You just
need to enable the Object Filter (the first button in the Tree View's tool
bar). You can also right click on the Tree View toolbar, and there are
various other options in there which can be helpful for sorting and grouping
the objects in a tree structure. Definitely worth playing with anyway. Sorry
for the misinformation before!

Cheers,
A

On 26/03/2017 13:55, Jonathan Moore wrote:

Thanks Andy. 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas
Sent: 26 March 2017 00:37
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/xsi_list>
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

I also like Pauls idea of a modifier key to disable the auto connection on
demand. Definitely seems a worthwhile enhancement request.

FYI, I've submitted an RFE to Side Effects and sent them the link to this
thread.

A

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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

> Firstly. I don’t see that you can store a matrix per-point attribute. 
Is it possible?

Yes, it is possible. It works as an array of 16 (or 9) floats. Just make 
a Point Wrangle with some points going in and put "matrix @mat;" in it 
to see.

> How would an experienced Houdini person deal with getting/calculating 
Pointreferenceframe on a surface?

Polyframe SOP should get you there pretty quickly. It doesn't create a 
matrix attribute though as it won't interpolate correctly across 
primitives. It just creates normal, tangent, and bi-tangent vectors.

You can use xyzdist() and primuv() to find and interpolate those 
vectors. Those functions give you the Houdini equivalent functionality 
of locations. You can then calculate the matrix in Vex using 
"maketransform(vector zaxis, vector xaxis)" 
(http://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini/vex/functions/maketransform)

Worth mentioning that the Attribute Interpolate SOP can do the same 
thing as primuv() if you prefer.

A

On 28/03/2017 10:04, p...@bustykelp.com wrote:
They fixed it quicker than it took me to make a video showing how 
annoying it could be!
I have a question regarding attributes.. In ICE. I use 
‘pointreferenceframe’ all the time for finding the orientation at a 
surface for making deformers.
In Houdini, there are not all these useful attributes that ICE has by 
default. I can make a thing that calculates a homemade orientation 
a-la PointReferenceFrame, and it works but it takes up a huge amount 
of nodes. Also, you can’t just ‘get’ it. It needs loads of inputs on 
the tree that’s finding it.
Firstly. I don’t see that you can store a matrix per-point attribute. 
Is it possible?
How would an experienced Houdini person deal with getting/calculating 
Pointreferenceframe on a surface?

*From:* Jordi Bares <mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 28, 2017 9:44 AM
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing 
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>

*Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
I can tell you, that is not unusual.
jb
On 28 Mar 2017, at 08:31, Andy Goehler <lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com 
<mailto:lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Good morning,
this is the awesome support at SideFX
Available in the daily builds.
yesterday
	Houdini 16.0.561 	Added a hotkey to temporary toggle the state of 
the "Allow Dropping Nodes on Wires" preference while in the middle of 
dragging a node.

On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 at 12:22, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:

No problem Jonathan.

A quick update to this following discussions with SideFX:

1) I don't recall if this was mentioned in the thread earlier,
but they mentioned that you can enable/disable the auto-connect
on wires using CTRL+8 or in the Network View menu under Tools->
Allow Dropping Nodes on Wires. This doesn't work during a drag
operation though, so I've gone back and explained the desired
workflow of having a modifier key to toggle the behaviour during
the dragging of nodes. I just thought I'd post this in here now
case it's useful to anyone in the mean time.

2) They pointed out that I was incorrect when I said earlier in
this thread there wasn't an equivalent view of Softimage's
Explorer view where you can see clean hierarchies of objects. You
can do it in the Tree View. You just need to enable the Object
Filter (the first button in the Tree View's tool bar). You can
also right click on the Tree View toolbar, and there are various
other options in there which can be helpful for sorting and
grouping the objects in a tree structure. Definitely worth
playing with anyway. Sorry for the misinformation before!

Cheers,
A

On 26/03/2017 13:55, Jonathan Moore wrote:

Thanks Andy.

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of
*Andy Nicholas
*Sent:* 26 March 2017 00:37
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/xsi_list>
mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
*Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.

I also like Pauls idea of a modifier key to disable the auto
connection on demand. Definitely seems a worthwhile
enhancement request.

FYI, I’ve submitted an RFE to Side Effects and sent them the
link to this thread.

A

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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-28 Thread Matt Lind

I haven't used Houdini in this context, but I do know a little math.

The point reference frame in Softimage not much more than an orthogonal 
basis comprised of the U tangent, V tangent, and surface Normal (for 
surfaces).  For polygon meshes it follows some rules such as the winding of 
the polygon to determine the first edge which becomes a pseudo X axis.  That 
crossed with the normal produces the Z axis.  The combination of the three 
produces the matrix which represents the frame.

In other words, if you know the rules of the geometry construction, creating 
the reference frame shouldn't be more than a few cross products and 
normalizing.  Actually, you don't need to know the rules, you just need 'a' 
rule which is consistently followed.


Matt




Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 10:04:47 +0100
From: <p...@bustykelp.com>
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.
To: "Official Softimage Users Mailing


They fixed it quicker than it took me to make a video showing how annoying 
it could be!

I have a question regarding attributes.. In ICE. I use ?pointreferenceframe? 
all the time for finding the orientation at a surface for making deformers.
In Houdini, there are not all these useful attributes that ICE has by 
default. I can make a thing that calculates a homemade orientation a-la 
PointReferenceFrame, and it works but it takes up a huge amount of nodes. 
Also, you can?t just ?get? it. It needs loads of inputs on the tree that?s 
finding it.
Firstly. I don?t see that you can store a matrix per-point attribute. Is it 
possible?
How would an experienced Houdini person deal with getting/calculating 
Pointreferenceframe on a surface?


--
Softimage Mailing List.
To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
"unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

They fixed it quicker than it took me to make a video showing how annoying it 
could be!

I have a question regarding attributes.. In ICE. I use ‘pointreferenceframe’ 
all the time for finding the orientation at a surface for making deformers.
In Houdini, there are not all these useful attributes that ICE has by default. 
I can make a thing that calculates a homemade orientation a-la 
PointReferenceFrame, and it works but it takes up a huge amount of nodes. Also, 
you can’t just ‘get’ it. It needs loads of inputs on the tree that’s finding it.
Firstly. I don’t see that you can store a matrix per-point attribute. Is it 
possible? 
How would an experienced Houdini person deal with getting/calculating 
Pointreferenceframe on a surface?

From: Jordi Bares 
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 9:44 AM
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing 
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

I can tell you, that is not unusual.

jb


  On 28 Mar 2017, at 08:31, Andy Goehler <lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com> wrote:

  Good morning,

  this is the awesome support at SideFX

  Available in the daily builds.
yesterday 
   Houdini 16.0.561 Added a hotkey to temporary toggle the state of the 
"Allow Dropping Nodes on Wires" preference while in the middle of dragging a 
node. 



  On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 at 12:22, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com> wrote:

No problem Jonathan.

A quick update to this following discussions with SideFX:

1) I don't recall if this was mentioned in the thread earlier, but they 
mentioned that you can enable/disable the auto-connect on wires using CTRL+8 or 
in the Network View menu under Tools-> Allow Dropping Nodes on Wires. This 
doesn't work during a drag operation though, so I've gone back and explained 
the desired workflow of having a modifier key to toggle the behaviour during 
the dragging of nodes. I just thought I'd post this in here now case it's 
useful to anyone in the mean time.

2) They pointed out that I was incorrect when I said earlier in this thread 
there wasn't an equivalent view of Softimage's Explorer view where you can see 
clean hierarchies of objects. You can do it in the Tree View. You just need to 
enable the Object Filter (the first button in the Tree View's tool bar). You 
can also right click on the Tree View toolbar, and there are various other 
options in there which can be helpful for sorting and grouping the objects in a 
tree structure. Definitely worth playing with anyway. Sorry for the 
misinformation before!

Cheers,
A



On 26/03/2017 13:55, Jonathan Moore wrote:

  Thanks Andy. 



  From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas
  Sent: 26 March 2017 00:37
  To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
  Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.



I also like Pauls idea of a modifier key to disable the auto connection 
on demand. Definitely seems a worthwhile enhancement request.



  FYI, I’ve submitted an RFE to Side Effects and sent them the link to this 
thread.



  A




   

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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

Hahahaha! That's amazing :) When I got an email from SideFX changing the 
status of the RFE to "Fixed", I just assumed that they had agreed that 
it was a valid request that they'd look into, not that they'd actually 
gone and bloody done it. Well done SideFX!


In case he's still reading this thread, thanks to Mark Tucker at SideFX 
who dealt with this so promptly.


A


On 28/03/2017 08:31, Andy Goehler wrote:

Good morning,

this is the awesome support at SideFX

Available in the daily builds.
yesterday
	Houdini 16.0.561 	Added a hotkey to temporary toggle the state of the 
"Allow Dropping Nodes on Wires" preference while in the middle of 
dragging a node.




On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 at 12:22, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:


No problem Jonathan.

A quick update to this following discussions with SideFX:

1) I don't recall if this was mentioned in the thread earlier, but
they mentioned that you can enable/disable the auto-connect on
wires using CTRL+8 or in the Network View menu under Tools-> Allow
Dropping Nodes on Wires. This doesn't work during a drag operation
though, so I've gone back and explained the desired workflow of
having a modifier key to toggle the behaviour during the dragging
of nodes. I just thought I'd post this in here now case it's
useful to anyone in the mean time.

2) They pointed out that I was incorrect when I said earlier in
this thread there wasn't an equivalent view of Softimage's
Explorer view where you can see clean hierarchies of objects. You
can do it in the Tree View. You just need to enable the Object
Filter (the first button in the Tree View's tool bar). You can
also right click on the Tree View toolbar, and there are various
other options in there which can be helpful for sorting and
grouping the objects in a tree structure. Definitely worth playing
with anyway. Sorry for the misinformation before!

Cheers,
A


On 26/03/2017 13:55, Jonathan Moore wrote:


Thanks Andy.

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of
*Andy Nicholas
*Sent:* 26 March 2017 00:37
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/xsi_list>
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
*Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.

I also like Pauls idea of a modifier key to disable the auto
connection on demand. Definitely seems a worthwhile
enhancement request.

FYI, I’ve submitted an RFE to Side Effects and sent them the link
to this thread.

A



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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-28 Thread Jordi Bares

I can tell you, that is not unusual.

jb


> On 28 Mar 2017, at 08:31, Andy Goehler <lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Good morning,
> 
> this is the awesome support at SideFX
> 
> Available in the daily builds.
> yesterday
>   Houdini 16.0.561Added a hotkey to temporary toggle the state of 
> the "Allow Dropping Nodes on Wires" preference while in the middle of 
> dragging a node.
> 
> 
> On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 at 12:22, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
> <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:
> No problem Jonathan.
> 
> A quick update to this following discussions with SideFX:
> 
> 1) I don't recall if this was mentioned in the thread earlier, but they 
> mentioned that you can enable/disable the auto-connect on wires using CTRL+8 
> or in the Network View menu under Tools-> Allow Dropping Nodes on Wires. This 
> doesn't work during a drag operation though, so I've gone back and explained 
> the desired workflow of having a modifier key to toggle the behaviour during 
> the dragging of nodes. I just thought I'd post this in here now case it's 
> useful to anyone in the mean time.
> 
> 2) They pointed out that I was incorrect when I said earlier in this thread 
> there wasn't an equivalent view of Softimage's Explorer view where you can 
> see clean hierarchies of objects. You can do it in the Tree View. You just 
> need to enable the Object Filter (the first button in the Tree View's tool 
> bar). You can also right click on the Tree View toolbar, and there are 
> various other options in there which can be helpful for sorting and grouping 
> the objects in a tree structure. Definitely worth playing with anyway. Sorry 
> for the misinformation before!
> 
> Cheers,
> A
> 
> 
> On 26/03/2017 13:55, Jonathan Moore wrote:
>> Thanks Andy.
>> 
>>   <>
>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> 
>> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas
>> Sent: 26 March 2017 00:37
>> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list> 
>> <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> <mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
>> Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I also like Pauls idea of a modifier key to disable the auto connection on 
>> demand. Definitely seems a worthwhile enhancement request.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> FYI, I’ve submitted an RFE to Side Effects and sent them the link to this 
>> thread.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> A
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>> <mailto:softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com> with "unsubscribe" in the 
>> subject, and reply to confirm.
> 
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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

What?? that’s mental !!

Its also extremely impressive. Thanks guys.

From: Andy Goehler 
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 8:31 AM
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing 
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

Good morning,

this is the awesome support at SideFX

Available in the daily builds.
  yesterday 
 Houdini 16.0.561 Added a hotkey to temporary toggle the state of the 
"Allow Dropping Nodes on Wires" preference while in the middle of dragging a 
node. 

On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 at 12:22, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com> wrote:

  No problem Jonathan.

  A quick update to this following discussions with SideFX:

  1) I don't recall if this was mentioned in the thread earlier, but they 
mentioned that you can enable/disable the auto-connect on wires using CTRL+8 or 
in the Network View menu under Tools-> Allow Dropping Nodes on Wires. This 
doesn't work during a drag operation though, so I've gone back and explained 
the desired workflow of having a modifier key to toggle the behaviour during 
the dragging of nodes. I just thought I'd post this in here now case it's 
useful to anyone in the mean time.

  2) They pointed out that I was incorrect when I said earlier in this thread 
there wasn't an equivalent view of Softimage's Explorer view where you can see 
clean hierarchies of objects. You can do it in the Tree View. You just need to 
enable the Object Filter (the first button in the Tree View's tool bar). You 
can also right click on the Tree View toolbar, and there are various other 
options in there which can be helpful for sorting and grouping the objects in a 
tree structure. Definitely worth playing with anyway. Sorry for the 
misinformation before!

  Cheers,
  A

  On 26/03/2017 13:55, Jonathan Moore wrote:

Thanks Andy. 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas
Sent: 26 March 2017 00:37
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

  I also like Pauls idea of a modifier key to disable the auto connection 
on demand. Definitely seems a worthwhile enhancement request.

FYI, I’ve submitted an RFE to Side Effects and sent them the link to this 
thread.

A

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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-28 Thread Andy Goehler

Good morning,

this is the awesome support at SideFX

Available in the daily builds.
yesterday
Houdini 16.0.561 Added a hotkey to temporary toggle the state of the "Allow
Dropping Nodes on Wires" preference while in the middle of dragging a node.


On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 at 12:22, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com> wrote:

> No problem Jonathan.
>
> A quick update to this following discussions with SideFX:
>
> 1) I don't recall if this was mentioned in the thread earlier, but they
> mentioned that you can enable/disable the auto-connect on wires using
> CTRL+8 or in the Network View menu under Tools-> Allow Dropping Nodes on
> Wires. This doesn't work during a drag operation though, so I've gone back
> and explained the desired workflow of having a modifier key to toggle the
> behaviour during the dragging of nodes. I just thought I'd post this in
> here now case it's useful to anyone in the mean time.
>
> 2) They pointed out that I was incorrect when I said earlier in this
> thread there wasn't an equivalent view of Softimage's Explorer view where
> you can see clean hierarchies of objects. You can do it in the Tree View.
> You just need to enable the Object Filter (the first button in the Tree
> View's tool bar). You can also right click on the Tree View toolbar, and
> there are various other options in there which can be helpful for sorting
> and grouping the objects in a tree structure. Definitely worth playing with
> anyway. Sorry for the misinformation before!
>
> Cheers,
> A
>
>
> On 26/03/2017 13:55, Jonathan Moore wrote:
>
> Thanks Andy.
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [
> mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
> <softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] *On Behalf Of *Andy Nicholas
> *Sent:* 26 March 2017 00:37
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
> <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>
>
>
> I also like Pauls idea of a modifier key to disable the auto connection on
> demand. Definitely seems a worthwhile enhancement request.
>
>
>
> FYI, I’ve submitted an RFE to Side Effects and sent them the link to this
> thread.
>
>
>
> A
>
>
>
>
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
>
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
--
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To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-27 Thread Andy Nicholas


No problem Jonathan.

A quick update to this following discussions with SideFX:

1) I don't recall if this was mentioned in the thread earlier, but they 
mentioned that you can enable/disable the auto-connect on wires using 
CTRL+8 or in the Network View menu under Tools-> Allow Dropping Nodes on 
Wires. This doesn't work during a drag operation though, so I've gone 
back and explained the desired workflow of having a modifier key to 
toggle the behaviour during the dragging of nodes. I just thought I'd 
post this in here now case it's useful to anyone in the mean time.


2) They pointed out that I was incorrect when I said earlier in this 
thread there wasn't an equivalent view of Softimage's Explorer view 
where you can see clean hierarchies of objects. You can do it in the 
Tree View. You just need to enable the Object Filter (the first button 
in the Tree View's tool bar). You can also right click on the Tree View 
toolbar, and there are various other options in there which can be 
helpful for sorting and grouping the objects in a tree structure. 
Definitely worth playing with anyway. Sorry for the misinformation before!


Cheers,
A

On 26/03/2017 13:55, Jonathan Moore wrote:


Thanks Andy.

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Andy 
Nicholas

*Sent:* 26 March 2017 00:37
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>

*Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.

I also like Pauls idea of a modifier key to disable the auto
connection on demand. Definitely seems a worthwhile enhancement
request.

FYI, I’ve submitted an RFE to Side Effects and sent them the link to 
this thread.


A



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To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
"unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.


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To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
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RE: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-26 Thread Jonathan Moore

Thanks Andy. 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas
Sent: 26 March 2017 00:37
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

I also like Pauls idea of a modifier key to disable the auto connection on 
demand. Definitely seems a worthwhile enhancement request.

FYI, I’ve submitted an RFE to Side Effects and sent them the link to this 
thread.

A

--
Softimage Mailing List.
To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
"unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-25 Thread Andy Nicholas

> I also like Pauls idea of a modifier key to disable the auto connection on 
> demand. Definitely seems a worthwhile enhancement request.


FYI, I’ve submitted an RFE to Side Effects and sent them the link to this 
thread.

A

--
Softimage Mailing List.
To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
"unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

RE: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-25 Thread Jonathan Moore

Much as I like the improved clarity of the nodes in VOP’s in H16, they take up 
even more space, and this in turn increases the likelihood of connecting nodes 
unintentionally as it gets cramped very quickly. 

 

I’ve been making a lot of use of the new ‘Dot’s feature in H16. ALT click on a 
wire to add control dots that enable you to shape your wires around nodes. It’s 
extra clicks but having cleaner wire networks helps stop accidental connections.

 

I also like Pauls idea of a modifier key to disable the auto connection on 
demand. Definitely seems a worthwhile enhancement request.

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Fabricio Chamon
Sent: 25 March 2017 23:02
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

 

After some weeks learning houdini I have to agree 100% with Dan. It is super 
useful in all contexts other than VOPs.

 

Em sáb, 25 de mar de 2017 às 21:39, Dan Yargici <danyarg...@gmail.com 
<mailto:danyarg...@gmail.com> > escreveu:

I just wish you could disable drop on line per context. I would hate to work in 
the network editor without it, but I hate it ferociously in VOPs... 

Sent from my phone...

 

On 24 Mar 2017 5:52 pm, "Andy Nicholas" <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com> > wrote:












+1. Literally found that happening to me too today inside an

overcrowded shader. It's incredibly easy to accidentally hook up

stuff without noticing.






On 24/03/2017 17:02, p...@bustykelp.com <mailto:p...@bustykelp.com> 

wrote:








 

 

 

All they’d need is to have an option to hold down ALT or

something when moving nodes to prevent them connecting. It

doesn’t have to be drastic redesign. I’ll do a video next

week showing how annoying it can be. Often because I don’t

notice its happened until my tool stops working

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Olivier Jeannel <mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com> 

 

Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 4:32 PM

 

To: Official <mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> 

Softimage Users Mailing

List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list

 

Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Paul,

yes when you freshly arrive from ice, I had that same

feeling. I'm twice more focused in vop than I was in Ice

because of that vicious habit it has to connect nodes when

you just drag another node near it.

It has also a crude tendency to autocorupt vop nodes

when they turn red sometime they just don't come back. No

big deal, a copy/ paste of the corrupted node often bring 

things back.

 

And when you are in some for each nodes, when dealing

with arrays (which are far from friendly) it can get

really annoying.

 

But a part from that bad design, houdini really well

worth the efforts and the patience.

 




On Friday, March 24, 2017, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com 
<mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com> >

wrote:



 

 

 

I’m

confident SideFX will sort out any teething

problems ref the VOP’s and network editor

interaction model. I would however suggest that

you send a bug report in with a video. SideFX

are pretty good on this stuff especially when it

involves new features.

 

 






 

 

From:

softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> 

[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com]

On Behalf Of javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','p...@bustykelp.com');


Sent: 24 March 2017 13:05


To: Official Softimage Users Mailing

List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/xsi_list> 

<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com <mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> >


Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I understand that when it works as

planned its a good feature and it

would be really

useful if I could control when it does and

when it doesn’t happen. (by holding a key

down for example)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In ICE, it works fine because it

happens when you place a new node. NOT

when you re-organise the tree. But in

Houdini, it happens just when you move

nodes a bit.  So I  have the choice of

either having my nodes spread apart SO far

that they are tiny and I can’t read them,

but the risk is reduced a bit. Or having

them naturally close, but constantly auto

connecting and messsing up my work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Simon Reeves 

 

 

 

Sent: Friday, March 24,

2017 12:04 PM

 

 

 

To: Official Softimage

Users Mailing

List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list

 

 

 

Subject: Re: Random Thoughts

about H.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I feel like if you disabled 'auto

connecting dropping nodes onto wires' 

youd disable a really useful feature,

can you not ju

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-25 Thread Fabricio Chamon

After some weeks learning houdini I have to agree 100% with Dan. It is
super useful in all contexts other than VOPs.

Em sáb, 25 de mar de 2017 às 21:39, Dan Yargici <danyarg...@gmail.com>
escreveu:

> I just wish you could disable drop on line per context. I would hate to
> work in the network editor without it, but I hate it ferociously in VOPs...
>
> Sent from my phone...
>
> On 24 Mar 2017 5:52 pm, "Andy Nicholas" <a...@andynicholas.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> +1. Literally found that happening to me too today inside an
>
> overcrowded shader. It's incredibly easy to accidentally hook up
>
> stuff without noticing.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 24/03/2017 17:02, p...@bustykelp.com
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> All they’d need is to have an option to hold down ALT or
>
> something when moving nodes to prevent them connecting. It
>
> doesn’t have to be drastic redesign. I’ll do a video next
>
> week showing how annoying it can be. Often because I don’t
>
> notice its happened until my tool stops working
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com>
>
>
>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 24, 2017 4:32 PM
>
>
> *To:* Official
>
> Softimage Users Mailing
>
> List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
> <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
>
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul,
>
> yes when you freshly arrive from ice, I had that same
>
> feeling. I'm twice more focused in vop than I was in Ice
>
> because of that vicious habit it has to connect nodes when
>
> you just drag another node near it.
>
> It has also a crude tendency to autocorupt vop nodes
>
> when they turn red sometime they just don't come back. No
>
> big deal, a copy/ paste of the corrupted node often bring
>
> things back.
>
>
> And when you are in some for each nodes, when dealing
>
> with arrays (which are far from friendly) it can get
>
> really annoying.
>
>
> But a part from that bad design, houdini really well
>
> worth the efforts and the patience.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, March 24, 2017, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I’m
>
> confident SideFX will sort out any teething
>
> problems ref the VOP’s and network editor
>
> interaction model. I would however suggest that
>
> you send a bug report in with a video. SideFX
>
> are pretty good on this stuff especially when it
>
> involves new features.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:*
>
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
>
> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com]
>
> *On Behalf Of *javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','p...@bustykelp.com');
>
>
> *Sent:* 24 March 2017 13:05
>
>
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing
>
> List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
>
> <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I understand that when it works as
>
> planned its a good feature and it
>
> * would* be really
>
> useful if I could control when it does and
>
> when it doesn’t happen. (by holding a key
>
> down for example)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In ICE, it works fine because it
>
> happens when you place a new node. NOT
>
> when you re-organise the tree. But in
>
> Houdini, it happens just when you move
>
> nodes a bit.  So I  have the choice of
>
> either having my nodes spread apart SO far
>
> that they are tiny and I can’t read them,
>
> but the risk is reduced a bit. Or having
>
> them naturally close, but constantly auto
>
> connecting and messsing up my work.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Simon Reeves
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 24,
>
> 2017 12:04 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *To:* Official Softimage
>
> Users Mailing
>
> List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts
>
> about H.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I feel like if you disabled 'auto
>
> connecting dropping nodes onto wires'
>
> youd disable a really useful feature,
>
> can you not just

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-25 Thread Dan Yargici

I just wish you could disable drop on line per context. I would hate to
work in the network editor without it, but I hate it ferociously in VOPs...

Sent from my phone...

On 24 Mar 2017 5:52 pm, "Andy Nicholas" <a...@andynicholas.com> wrote:

> +1. Literally found that happening to me too today inside an overcrowded
> shader. It's incredibly easy to accidentally hook up stuff without noticing.
>
> On 24/03/2017 17:02, p...@bustykelp.com wrote:
>
> All they’d need is to have an option to hold down ALT or something when
> moving nodes to prevent them connecting. It doesn’t have to be drastic
> redesign. I’ll do a video next week showing how annoying it can be. Often
> because I don’t notice its happened until my tool stops working
>
> *From:* Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 24, 2017 4:32 PM
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.https://groups.google.
> com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>
> Paul, yes when you freshly arrive from ice, I had that same feeling. I'm
> twice more focused in vop than I was in Ice because of that vicious habit
> it has to connect nodes when you just drag another node near it.
> It has also a crude tendency to autocorupt vop nodes when they turn red
> sometime they just don't come back. No big deal, a copy/ paste of the
> corrupted node often bring  things back.
> And when you are in some for each nodes, when dealing with arrays (which
> are far from friendly) it can get really annoying.
> But a part from that bad design, houdini really well worth the efforts and
> the patience.
>
> On Friday, March 24, 2017, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I’m confident SideFX will sort out any teething problems ref the VOP’s
>> and network editor interaction model. I would however suggest that you send
>> a bug report in with a video. SideFX are pretty good on this stuff
>> especially when it involves new features.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *
>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','p...@bustykelp.com');
>> *Sent:* 24 March 2017 13:05
>> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.https://groups.google.com
>> /forum/#!forum/xsi_list <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>>
>>
>>
>> I understand that when it works as planned its a good feature and it*
>> would* be really useful if I could control when it does and when it
>> doesn’t happen. (by holding a key down for example)
>>
>>
>>
>> In ICE, it works fine because it happens when you place a new node. NOT
>> when you re-organise the tree. But in Houdini, it happens just when you
>> move nodes a bit.  So I  have the choice of either having my nodes spread
>> apart SO far that they are tiny and I can’t read them, but the risk is
>> reduced a bit. Or having them naturally close, but constantly auto
>> connecting and messsing up my work.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Simon Reeves
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 24, 2017 12:04 PM
>>
>> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.https://groups.google.com
>> /forum/#!forum/xsi_list
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>>
>>
>>
>> I feel like if you disabled 'auto connecting dropping nodes onto wires'
>> youd disable a really useful feature, can you not just be more careful ;)
>> and regards to copy + paste, alt+drag to copy is very useful because you
>> can place them
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 at 11:46 Jonathan Moore <
>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jonathan.moo...@gmail.com');> wrote:
>>
>> The improvements to the network editor in Houdini 16 is probably my
>> favourite aspect of the release. It answers many of the complaints you
>> mention Oliver.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Olivier Jeannel
>> *Sent:* 24 March 2017 09:46
>> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list <
>> softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
>>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>>
>>
>>
>> Getting back to the subject of organisation, I still consider myself as a
>> houdini beginner.
>>
>> The thing is, it so open that you quickly import the ice science into vop
>> and you get comfident enough quickly.
&

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-24 Thread Andy Nicholas

+1. Literally found that happening to me too today inside an overcrowded 
shader. It's incredibly easy to accidentally hook up stuff without noticing.


On 24/03/2017 17:02, p...@bustykelp.com wrote:
All they’d need is to have an option to hold down ALT or something 
when moving nodes to prevent them connecting. It doesn’t have to be 
drastic redesign. I’ll do a video next week showing how annoying it 
can be. Often because I don’t notice its happened until my tool stops 
working

*From:* Olivier Jeannel <mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Friday, March 24, 2017 4:32 PM
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing 
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>

*Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
Paul, yes when you freshly arrive from ice, I had that same feeling. 
I'm twice more focused in vop than I was in Ice because of that 
vicious habit it has to connect nodes when you just drag another node 
near it.
It has also a crude tendency to autocorupt vop nodes when they turn 
red sometime they just don't come back. No big deal, a copy/ paste of 
the corrupted node often bring things back.
And when you are in some for each nodes, when dealing with arrays 
(which are far from friendly) it can get really annoying.
But a part from that bad design, houdini really well worth the efforts 
and the patience.


On Friday, March 24, 2017, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com 
<mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>> wrote:


I’m confident SideFX will sort out any teething problems ref the
VOP’s and network editor interaction model. I would however
suggest that you send a bug report in with a video. SideFX are
pretty good on this stuff especially when it involves new features.

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com');>
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com');>]
*On Behalf Of *javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','p...@bustykelp.com');
*Sent:* 24 March 2017 13:05
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/xsi_list>
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage@listproc.autodesk.com');>>
*Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.

I understand that when it works as planned its a good feature and
it*/would/* be really useful if I could control when it does and
when it doesn’t happen. (by holding a key down for example)

In ICE, it works fine because it happens when you place a new
node. NOT when you re-organise the tree. But in Houdini, it
happens just when you move nodes a bit.  So I  have the choice of
either having my nodes spread apart SO far that they are tiny and
I can’t read them, but the risk is reduced a bit. Or having them
naturally close, but constantly auto connecting and messsing up my
work.

*From:*Simon Reeves
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','si...@simonreeves.com');>

*Sent:*Friday, March 24, 2017 12:04 PM

*To:*Official Softimage Users Mailing
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage@listproc.autodesk.com');>

*Subject:*Re: Random Thoughts about H.

I feel like if you disabled 'auto connecting dropping nodes onto
wires' youd disable a really useful feature, can you not just be
more careful ;)
and regards to copy + paste, alt+drag to copy is very useful
because you can place them

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 at 11:46 Jonathan Moore
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jonathan.moo...@gmail.com');> wrote:

The improvements to the network editor in Houdini 16 is
probably my favourite aspect of the release. It answers many
of the complaints you mention Oliver.

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com

<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com');>
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com

<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com');>]
*On Behalf Of *Olivier Jeannel
*Sent:* 24 March 2017 09:46
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/xsi_list>
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
    <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage@listproc.autodesk.com');>>


*Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.

Getting back to the subject of organisation, I still consider
myself as a houdini beginner.

The thing is, it so open that you quickly import the ice
science into vop and you get comfident enough quickly.

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-24 Thread paul

All they’d need is to have an option to hold down ALT or something when moving 
nodes to prevent them connecting. It doesn’t have to be drastic redesign. I’ll 
do a video next week showing how annoying it can be. Often because I don’t 
notice its happened until my tool stops working

From: Olivier Jeannel 
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 4:32 PM
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing 
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

Paul, yes when you freshly arrive from ice, I had that same feeling. I'm twice 
more focused in vop than I was in Ice because of that vicious habit it has to 
connect nodes when you just drag another node near it. 
It has also a crude tendency to autocorupt vop nodes when they turn red 
sometime they just don't come back. No big deal, a copy/ paste of the corrupted 
node often bring  things back.
And when you are in some for each nodes, when dealing with arrays (which are 
far from friendly) it can get really annoying.
But a part from that bad design, houdini really well worth the efforts and the 
patience.

On Friday, March 24, 2017, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com> wrote:

  I’m confident SideFX will sort out any teething problems ref the VOP’s and 
network editor interaction model. I would however suggest that you send a bug 
report in with a video. SideFX are pretty good on this stuff especially when it 
involves new features.

  From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of 
javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','p...@bustykelp.com');
  Sent: 24 March 2017 13:05
  To: Official Softimage Users Mailing 
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
  Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

  I understand that when it works as planned its a good feature and it would be 
really useful if I could control when it does and when it doesn’t happen. (by 
holding a key down for example)

  In ICE, it works fine because it happens when you place a new node. NOT when 
you re-organise the tree. But in Houdini, it happens just when you move nodes a 
bit.  So I  have the choice of either having my nodes spread apart SO far that 
they are tiny and I can’t read them, but the risk is reduced a bit. Or having 
them naturally close, but constantly auto connecting and messsing up my work.

  From: Simon Reeves 

  Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 12:04 PM

  To: Official Softimage Users Mailing 
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 

  Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

  I feel like if you disabled 'auto connecting dropping nodes onto wires'  youd 
disable a really useful feature, can you not just be more careful ;) 
  and regards to copy + paste, alt+drag to copy is very useful because you can 
place them

  On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 at 11:46 Jonathan Moore 
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jonathan.moo...@gmail.com');> wrote:

The improvements to the network editor in Houdini 16 is probably my 
favourite aspect of the release. It answers many of the complaints you mention 
Oliver.

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Olivier Jeannel
Sent: 24 March 2017 09:46
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>

Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

Getting back to the subject of organisation, I still consider myself as a 
houdini beginner.

The thing is, it so open that you quickly import the ice science into vop 
and you get comfident enough quickly.

My experience is with the 15.5, and probably not the latest release.

I found the stiky notes not that handy ( clicking on it sometimes close it, 
or it gets in the way), naming a node or an area. was a pain, you enter the 
name hit "enter" and it bounces back to its previous name. Having to retype 3 
or 4 times until it catches it correctly.

The surrounding colored area that you can draw around your network were 
buggy as well. Once the network surrounded it was mostly unworkable...

So finally I just relied on colored nodes...

I also found the node editor to be a bit buggy when working with a high 
number of nodes. It can get slow, and the mouse pointer was clicking in an 
unprecize manner (when trying to pick the line between 2 nodes), sometimes 
creating disaster.

And by high number of nodes i mean : my final scene was having one big 
obj/geo node for the animation, containing a dozen of complete big sop trees 
(with for each, vop, and a few dops, some cachefiles..).

I found that working within one single big node was better than having to 
jump back and forth into exterior nodes.

But the downside is that I had to navigate (swim) in that huge forest of 
slow undocumented trees.

Seems they fixed all this naming, note

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-24 Thread Jordi Bares

I will suggest that while you are fresh with Houdini all these little things 
should be submitted as RFE to Side Effects so they can put it in order.

If you record a little video explaining it the whole thing makes a lot of sense 
and I have seen quite a few requests implemented over the last years so please 
do.

jb


> On 24 Mar 2017, at 16:32, Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Paul, yes when you freshly arrive from ice, I had that same feeling. I'm 
> twice more focused in vop than I was in Ice because of that vicious habit it 
> has to connect nodes when you just drag another node near it.
> It has also a crude tendency to autocorupt vop nodes when they turn red 
> sometime they just don't come back. No big deal, a copy/ paste of the 
> corrupted node often bring  things back.
> And when you are in some for each nodes, when dealing with arrays (which are 
> far from friendly) it can get really annoying.
> But a part from that bad design, houdini really well worth the efforts and 
> the patience.
> 
> On Friday, March 24, 2017, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> I’m confident SideFX will sort out any teething problems ref the VOP’s and 
> network editor interaction model. I would however suggest that you send a bug 
> report in with a video. SideFX are pretty good on this stuff especially when 
> it involves new features.
> 
>   <>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com');> 
> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com');>] On 
> Behalf Of p...@bustykelp.com 
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','p...@bustykelp.com');>
> Sent: 24 March 2017 13:05
> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing 
> List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list> 
> <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com 
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage@listproc.autodesk.com');>>
> Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.
> 
>  
> 
> I understand that when it works as planned its a good feature and it would be 
> really useful if I could control when it does and when it doesn’t happen. (by 
> holding a key down for example)
> 
>  
> 
> In ICE, it works fine because it happens when you place a new node. NOT when 
> you re-organise the tree. But in Houdini, it happens just when you move nodes 
> a bit.  So I  have the choice of either having my nodes spread apart SO far 
> that they are tiny and I can’t read them, but the risk is reduced a bit. Or 
> having them naturally close, but constantly auto connecting and messsing up 
> my work.
> 
>  
> 
> From: Simon Reeves <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','si...@simonreeves.com');>
> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 12:04 PM
> 
> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing 
> List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage@listproc.autodesk.com');>
> Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.
> 
>  
> 
> I feel like if you disabled 'auto connecting dropping nodes onto wires'  youd 
> disable a really useful feature, can you not just be more careful ;) 
> and regards to copy + paste, alt+drag to copy is very useful because you can 
> place them
> 
>  
> 
> On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 at 11:46 Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com 
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jonathan.moo...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
> 
> The improvements to the network editor in Houdini 16 is probably my favourite 
> aspect of the release. It answers many of the complaints you mention Oliver.
> 
>  <> 
> 
>  
> 
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com');> 
> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com');>] On 
> Behalf Of Olivier Jeannel
> Sent: 24 March 2017 09:46
> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list> 
> <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com 
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage@listproc.autodesk.com');>>
> 
> 
> Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.
> 
>  
> 
> Getting back to the subject of organisation, I still consider myself as a 
> houdini beginner.
> 
> The thing is, it so open that you quickly import the ice science into vop and 
> you get comfident enough quickly.
> 
> My experience is with the 15.5, and probably not the latest re

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-24 Thread Olivier Jeannel

Paul, yes when you freshly arrive from ice, I had that same feeling. I'm
twice more focused in vop than I was in Ice because of that vicious habit
it has to connect nodes when you just drag another node near it.
It has also a crude tendency to autocorupt vop nodes when they turn red
sometime they just don't come back. No big deal, a copy/ paste of the
corrupted node often bring  things back.
And when you are in some for each nodes, when dealing with arrays (which
are far from friendly) it can get really annoying.
But a part from that bad design, houdini really well worth the efforts and
the patience.

On Friday, March 24, 2017, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I’m confident SideFX will sort out any teething problems ref the VOP’s and
> network editor interaction model. I would however suggest that you send a
> bug report in with a video. SideFX are pretty good on this stuff especially
> when it involves new features.
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com');>
> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com');>]
> *On Behalf Of *p...@bustykelp.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','p...@bustykelp.com');>
> *Sent:* 24 March 2017 13:05
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.https://groups.google.
> com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage@listproc.autodesk.com');>>
> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>
>
>
> I understand that when it works as planned its a good feature and it*
> would* be really useful if I could control when it does and when it
> doesn’t happen. (by holding a key down for example)
>
>
>
> In ICE, it works fine because it happens when you place a new node. NOT
> when you re-organise the tree. But in Houdini, it happens just when you
> move nodes a bit.  So I  have the choice of either having my nodes spread
> apart SO far that they are tiny and I can’t read them, but the risk is
> reduced a bit. Or having them naturally close, but constantly auto
> connecting and messsing up my work.
>
>
>
> *From:* Simon Reeves
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','si...@simonreeves.com');>
>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 24, 2017 12:04 PM
>
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.https://groups.google.
> com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage@listproc.autodesk.com');>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>
>
>
> I feel like if you disabled 'auto connecting dropping nodes onto wires'
> youd disable a really useful feature, can you not just be more careful ;)
> and regards to copy + paste, alt+drag to copy is very useful because you
> can place them
>
>
>
> On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 at 11:46 Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jonathan.moo...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
> The improvements to the network editor in Houdini 16 is probably my
> favourite aspect of the release. It answers many of the complaints you
> mention Oliver.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com');>
> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com');>]
> *On Behalf Of *Olivier Jeannel
> *Sent:* 24 March 2017 09:46
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/
> forum/#!forum/xsi_list <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','softimage@listproc.autodesk.com');>>
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>
>
>
> Getting back to the subject of organisation, I still consider myself as a
> houdini beginner.
>
> The thing is, it so open that you quickly import the ice science into vop
> and you get comfident enough quickly.
>
> My experience is with the 15.5, and probably not the latest release.
>
> I found the stiky notes not that handy ( clicking on it sometimes close
> it, or it gets in the way), naming a node or an area. was a pain, you enter
> the name hit "enter" and it bounces back to its previous name. Having to
> retype 3 or 4 times until it catches it correctly.
>
> The surrounding colored area that you can draw around your network were
> buggy as well. Once the network surrounded it was mostly unworkable...
>
> So finally I just relied on colored nodes...
>
> I also found the node editor to be a bit buggy when working with a high
> number of nodes. It can get slow, and the mouse pointer was clicking in an
> unpre

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-24 Thread Andy Goehler

The new for H16 automatic and manual options to organize/align networks should 
help in this regard.

> On 24.03.2017, at 14:04, <p...@bustykelp.com> <p...@bustykelp.com> wrote:
> 
> I understand that when it works as planned its a good feature and it would be 
> really useful if I could control when it does and when it doesn’t happen. (by 
> holding a key down for example)
>  
> In ICE, it works fine because it happens when you place a new node. NOT when 
> you re-organise the tree. But in Houdini, it happens just when you move nodes 
> a bit.  So I  have the choice of either having my nodes spread apart SO far 
> that they are tiny and I can’t read them, but the risk is reduced a bit. Or 
> having them naturally close, but constantly auto connecting and messsing up 
> my work.
>  
> From: Simon Reeves <mailto:si...@simonreeves.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 12:04 PM
> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing 
> List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
> <mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
> Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>  
> I feel like if you disabled 'auto connecting dropping nodes onto wires'  youd 
> disable a really useful feature, can you not just be more careful ;) 
> and regards to copy + paste, alt+drag to copy is very useful because you can 
> place them
>  
> On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 at 11:46 Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> The improvements to the network editor in Houdini 16 is probably my 
>> favourite aspect of the release. It answers many of the complaints you 
>> mention Oliver.
>>  <> 
>>  
>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> 
>> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] On Behalf Of Olivier 
>> Jeannel
>> Sent: 24 March 2017 09:46
>> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list> 
>> <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com <mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>>
>> 
>> Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>> 
>>  
>> Getting back to the subject of organisation, I still consider myself as a 
>> houdini beginner.
>> The thing is, it so open that you quickly import the ice science into vop 
>> and you get comfident enough quickly.
>> My experience is with the 15.5, and probably not the latest release.
>> I found the stiky notes not that handy ( clicking on it sometimes close it, 
>> or it gets in the way), naming a node or an area. was a pain, you enter the 
>> name hit "enter" and it bounces back to its previous name. Having to retype 
>> 3 or 4 times until it catches it correctly.
>> The surrounding colored area that you can draw around your network were 
>> buggy as well. Once the network surrounded it was mostly unworkable...
>> So finally I just relied on colored nodes...
>> I also found the node editor to be a bit buggy when working with a high 
>> number of nodes. It can get slow, and the mouse pointer was clicking in an 
>> unprecize manner (when trying to pick the line between 2 nodes), sometimes 
>> creating disaster.
>> And by high number of nodes i mean : my final scene was having one big 
>> obj/geo node for the animation, containing a dozen of complete big sop trees 
>> (with for each, vop, and a few dops, some cachefiles..).
>> I found that working within one single big node was better than having to 
>> jump back and forth into exterior nodes.
>> But the downside is that I had to navigate (swim) in that huge forest of 
>> slow undocumented trees.
>>  
>> Seems they fixed all this naming, note and coloring in the 16. If someone 
>> can confirm. 
>> 
>> On Thursday, March 23, 2017, Andy Goehler <lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> Regarding Passes, at first it felt really strange, everything seemed 
>>> different. But after some time and getting into bundles the basics were 
>>> mastered. What always bugged me in Softimage was managing partitions across 
>>> passes. If there were changes you’d be hunting down all the partitions in 
>>> various passes. I’ve always wished for something expression based. With 
>>> wildcards on ROPs and smart bundles this opened the doors of freedom. I 
>>> never worry about that anymore.
>>>  
>>> For overrides I use object merges, as Jordi mentioned. This is

RE: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-24 Thread Jonathan Moore

I’m confident SideFX will sort out any teething problems ref the VOP’s and 
network editor interaction model. I would however suggest that you send a bug 
report in with a video. SideFX are pretty good on this stuff especially when it 
involves new features.

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of p...@bustykelp.com
Sent: 24 March 2017 13:05
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing 
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

 

I understand that when it works as planned its a good feature and it would be 
really useful if I could control when it does and when it doesn’t happen. (by 
holding a key down for example)

 

In ICE, it works fine because it happens when you place a new node. NOT when 
you re-organise the tree. But in Houdini, it happens just when you move nodes a 
bit.  So I  have the choice of either having my nodes spread apart SO far that 
they are tiny and I can’t read them, but the risk is reduced a bit. Or having 
them naturally close, but constantly auto connecting and messsing up my work.

 

From: Simon Reeves <mailto:si...@simonreeves.com>  

Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 12:04 PM

To: Official Softimage Users Mailing 
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>  

Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

 

I feel like if you disabled 'auto connecting dropping nodes onto wires'  youd 
disable a really useful feature, can you not just be more careful ;) 
and regards to copy + paste, alt+drag to copy is very useful because you can 
place them

 

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 at 11:46 Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com 
<mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com> > wrote:

The improvements to the network editor in Houdini 16 is probably my favourite 
aspect of the release. It answers many of the complaints you mention Oliver.

 

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>  
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> ] On Behalf Of Olivier Jeannel
Sent: 24 March 2017 09:46
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com <mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> >


Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

 

Getting back to the subject of organisation, I still consider myself as a 
houdini beginner.

The thing is, it so open that you quickly import the ice science into vop and 
you get comfident enough quickly.

My experience is with the 15.5, and probably not the latest release.

I found the stiky notes not that handy ( clicking on it sometimes close it, or 
it gets in the way), naming a node or an area. was a pain, you enter the name 
hit "enter" and it bounces back to its previous name. Having to retype 3 or 4 
times until it catches it correctly.

The surrounding colored area that you can draw around your network were buggy 
as well. Once the network surrounded it was mostly unworkable...

So finally I just relied on colored nodes...

I also found the node editor to be a bit buggy when working with a high number 
of nodes. It can get slow, and the mouse pointer was clicking in an unprecize 
manner (when trying to pick the line between 2 nodes), sometimes creating 
disaster.

And by high number of nodes i mean : my final scene was having one big obj/geo 
node for the animation, containing a dozen of complete big sop trees (with for 
each, vop, and a few dops, some cachefiles..).

I found that working within one single big node was better than having to jump 
back and forth into exterior nodes.

But the downside is that I had to navigate (swim) in that huge forest of slow 
undocumented trees.

 

Seems they fixed all this naming, note and coloring in the 16. If someone can 
confirm. 

On Thursday, March 23, 2017, Andy Goehler <lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com 
<mailto:lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Regarding Passes, at first it felt really strange, everything seemed different. 
But after some time and getting into bundles the basics were mastered. What 
always bugged me in Softimage was managing partitions across passes. If there 
were changes you’d be hunting down all the partitions in various passes. I’ve 
always wished for something expression based. With wildcards on ROPs and smart 
bundles this opened the doors of freedom. I never worry about that anymore.

 

For overrides I use object merges, as Jordi mentioned. This is not ideal, but 
manageable, not to mention extremely flexible and always reflects changes. I’ve 
looked into material style sheets and they are quite powerful, but not as nice 
to manage from a UI perspective. I found I’d rather manage additional objects 
with object merges and their material assignments, et

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-24 Thread paul

I understand that when it works as planned its a good feature and it would be 
really useful if I could control when it does and when it doesn’t happen. (by 
holding a key down for example)

In ICE, it works fine because it happens when you place a new node. NOT when 
you re-organise the tree. But in Houdini, it happens just when you move nodes a 
bit.  So I  have the choice of either having my nodes spread apart SO far that 
they are tiny and I can’t read them, but the risk is reduced a bit. Or having 
them naturally close, but constantly auto connecting and messsing up my work.

From: Simon Reeves 
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 12:04 PM
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing 
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

I feel like if you disabled 'auto connecting dropping nodes onto wires'  youd 
disable a really useful feature, can you not just be more careful ;) 
and regards to copy + paste, alt+drag to copy is very useful because you can 
place them

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 at 11:46 Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com> wrote:

  The improvements to the network editor in Houdini 16 is probably my favourite 
aspect of the release. It answers many of the complaints you mention Oliver.





  From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Olivier Jeannel
  Sent: 24 March 2017 09:46
  To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>


  Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.




  Getting back to the subject of organisation, I still consider myself as a 
houdini beginner.

  The thing is, it so open that you quickly import the ice science into vop and 
you get comfident enough quickly.

  My experience is with the 15.5, and probably not the latest release.

  I found the stiky notes not that handy ( clicking on it sometimes close it, 
or it gets in the way), naming a node or an area. was a pain, you enter the 
name hit "enter" and it bounces back to its previous name. Having to retype 3 
or 4 times until it catches it correctly.

  The surrounding colored area that you can draw around your network were buggy 
as well. Once the network surrounded it was mostly unworkable...

  So finally I just relied on colored nodes...

  I also found the node editor to be a bit buggy when working with a high 
number of nodes. It can get slow, and the mouse pointer was clicking in an 
unprecize manner (when trying to pick the line between 2 nodes), sometimes 
creating disaster.

  And by high number of nodes i mean : my final scene was having one big 
obj/geo node for the animation, containing a dozen of complete big sop trees 
(with for each, vop, and a few dops, some cachefiles..).

  I found that working within one single big node was better than having to 
jump back and forth into exterior nodes.

  But the downside is that I had to navigate (swim) in that huge forest of slow 
undocumented trees.



  Seems they fixed all this naming, note and coloring in the 16. If someone can 
confirm. 

  On Thursday, March 23, 2017, Andy Goehler <lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

Regarding Passes, at first it felt really strange, everything seemed 
different. But after some time and getting into bundles the basics were 
mastered. What always bugged me in Softimage was managing partitions across 
passes. If there were changes you’d be hunting down all the partitions in 
various passes. I’ve always wished for something expression based. With 
wildcards on ROPs and smart bundles this opened the doors of freedom. I never 
worry about that anymore.



For overrides I use object merges, as Jordi mentioned. This is not ideal, 
but manageable, not to mention extremely flexible and always reflects changes. 
I’ve looked into material style sheets and they are quite powerful, but not as 
nice to manage from a UI perspective. I found I’d rather manage additional 
objects with object merges and their material assignments, etc. Nevertheless, 
MSS can get the job done.



What I’d wish for is a graph similar to Katana, where nodes collect the 
objects and lights. Additional nodes provide material assignment and overrides. 
Or simply bundles with overrides :D



I’m still putting the pieces together to file an RFE with SESI.



Andy







  On 23.03.2017, at 14:11, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com> wrote:



  Yep. Worth mentioning the Material SOP too where you can override on a 
per point/primitive/global level if you need to.

  It was also pointed out to me the other day that the Material SOP is 
capable of generating material stylesheets for you. I'm still getting my head 
around that particular functionality, but I can see it has the potential to be 
very helpful in a more automated pipeline.

  A




  On 23/03/2017 12:36, Jordi Bares wrote:

Indeed, no

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-24 Thread Artur W

I figure, you just have to be mindful of what your doing. That's it.

I'd like to know if there is a hotkey to run a setup if it's in a manual
state.

Artur

2017-03-24 13:04 GMT+01:00 Simon Reeves <si...@simonreeves.com>:

> I feel like if you disabled 'auto connecting dropping nodes onto wires'
>  youd disable a really useful feature, can you not just be more careful ;)
> and regards to copy + paste, alt+drag to copy is very useful because you
> can place them
>
> On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 at 11:46 Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The improvements to the network editor in Houdini 16 is probably my
>> favourite aspect of the release. It answers many of the complaints you
>> mention Oliver.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Olivier Jeannel
>> *Sent:* 24 March 2017 09:46
>> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/
>> forum/#!forum/xsi_list <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
>>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>>
>>
>>
>> Getting back to the subject of organisation, I still consider myself as a
>> houdini beginner.
>>
>> The thing is, it so open that you quickly import the ice science into vop
>> and you get comfident enough quickly.
>>
>> My experience is with the 15.5, and probably not the latest release.
>>
>> I found the stiky notes not that handy ( clicking on it sometimes close
>> it, or it gets in the way), naming a node or an area. was a pain, you enter
>> the name hit "enter" and it bounces back to its previous name. Having to
>> retype 3 or 4 times until it catches it correctly.
>>
>> The surrounding colored area that you can draw around your network were
>> buggy as well. Once the network surrounded it was mostly unworkable...
>>
>> So finally I just relied on colored nodes...
>>
>> I also found the node editor to be a bit buggy when working with a high
>> number of nodes. It can get slow, and the mouse pointer was clicking in an
>> unprecize manner (when trying to pick the line between 2 nodes), sometimes
>> creating disaster.
>>
>>  And by high number of nodes i mean : my final scene was having one big
>> obj/geo node for the animation, containing a dozen of complete big sop
>> trees (with for each, vop, and a few dops, some cachefiles..).
>>
>> I found that working within one single big node was better than having to
>> jump back and forth into exterior nodes.
>>
>> But the downside is that I had to navigate (swim) in that huge forest of
>> slow undocumented trees.
>>
>>
>>
>> Seems they fixed all this naming, note and coloring in the 16. If someone
>> can confirm.
>>
>> On Thursday, March 23, 2017, Andy Goehler <lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Regarding Passes, at first it felt really strange, everything seemed
>> different. But after some time and getting into bundles the basics were
>> mastered. What always bugged me in Softimage was managing partitions across
>> passes. If there were changes you’d be hunting down all the partitions in
>> various passes. I’ve always wished for something expression based. With
>> wildcards on ROPs and smart bundles this opened the doors of freedom. I
>> never worry about that anymore.
>>
>>
>>
>> For overrides I use object merges, as Jordi mentioned. This is not ideal,
>> but manageable, not to mention extremely flexible and always reflects
>> changes. I’ve looked into material style sheets and they are quite
>> powerful, but not as nice to manage from a UI perspective. I found I’d
>> rather manage additional objects with object merges and their material
>> assignments, etc. Nevertheless, MSS can get the job done.
>>
>>
>>
>> What I’d wish for is a graph similar to Katana, where nodes collect the
>> objects and lights. Additional nodes provide material assignment and
>> overrides. Or simply bundles with overrides :D
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m still putting the pieces together to file an RFE with SESI.
>>
>>
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23.03.2017, at 14:11, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Yep. Worth mentioning the Material SOP too where you can override on a
>> per point/primitive/global level if you need to.
>>
>> It was also pointed out to me the other day that the Material SOP i

RE: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-24 Thread Jonathan Moore

Not that I know of. I seems to be something that affects H16 to a greater 
extent than previous versions.

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of p...@bustykelp.com
Sent: 24 March 2017 10:45
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing 
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

When I try and move nodes when making VOP networks. I have to be very careful 
as if I put it in the wrong place, it will autoconnect up the wires. Is there a 
way of disabling or dealing with this annoying feature

From: Andy Goehler <mailto:lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com>  

Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 10:13 AM

To: Official Softimage Users Mailing 
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>  

Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

On 24.03.2017, at 10:45, Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com 
<mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Seems they fixed all this naming, note and coloring in the 16. If someone can 
confirm. 

Yes, the pre H16 node editor annoyances were mostly addressed in H16. Also, 
navigating large SOP networks, or networks in generell is made much easier by 
using quickmarks. And don’t forget the birds eye overview.

One of our Softimage look devs hated the fact, that you had to click first then 
connect with nodes. This was also addressed in H16 in which you can now click 
and drag to connect nodes.

Some of these worklfow issues seem so obvious that it’s easily aggravating that 
they are absent. However, if you look into the lifetime of a product it becomes 
clear that focus was somewhere else. But recent releases have shown that SESI 
tries to do better in these areas as well.

I’ve praised SESI support so many times in the past and it’s repeated 
throughout the Houdini community. Take a minute or two and write down a 
worklfow or feature request and file it with support. Each Houdini release 
resembles a lot of these requests.

DOP, SOP, Hooray :D

Andy

  _  

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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-24 Thread Simon Reeves

I feel like if you disabled 'auto connecting dropping nodes onto wires'
 youd disable a really useful feature, can you not just be more careful ;)
and regards to copy + paste, alt+drag to copy is very useful because you
can place them

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 at 11:46 Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> The improvements to the network editor in Houdini 16 is probably my
> favourite aspect of the release. It answers many of the complaints you
> mention Oliver.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Olivier Jeannel
> *Sent:* 24 March 2017 09:46
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list <
> softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>
>
>
> Getting back to the subject of organisation, I still consider myself as a
> houdini beginner.
>
> The thing is, it so open that you quickly import the ice science into vop
> and you get comfident enough quickly.
>
> My experience is with the 15.5, and probably not the latest release.
>
> I found the stiky notes not that handy ( clicking on it sometimes close
> it, or it gets in the way), naming a node or an area. was a pain, you enter
> the name hit "enter" and it bounces back to its previous name. Having to
> retype 3 or 4 times until it catches it correctly.
>
> The surrounding colored area that you can draw around your network were
> buggy as well. Once the network surrounded it was mostly unworkable...
>
> So finally I just relied on colored nodes...
>
> I also found the node editor to be a bit buggy when working with a high
> number of nodes. It can get slow, and the mouse pointer was clicking in an
> unprecize manner (when trying to pick the line between 2 nodes), sometimes
> creating disaster.
>
>  And by high number of nodes i mean : my final scene was having one big
> obj/geo node for the animation, containing a dozen of complete big sop
> trees (with for each, vop, and a few dops, some cachefiles..).
>
> I found that working within one single big node was better than having to
> jump back and forth into exterior nodes.
>
> But the downside is that I had to navigate (swim) in that huge forest of
> slow undocumented trees.
>
>
>
> Seems they fixed all this naming, note and coloring in the 16. If someone
> can confirm.
>
> On Thursday, March 23, 2017, Andy Goehler <lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Regarding Passes, at first it felt really strange, everything seemed
> different. But after some time and getting into bundles the basics were
> mastered. What always bugged me in Softimage was managing partitions across
> passes. If there were changes you’d be hunting down all the partitions in
> various passes. I’ve always wished for something expression based. With
> wildcards on ROPs and smart bundles this opened the doors of freedom. I
> never worry about that anymore.
>
>
>
> For overrides I use object merges, as Jordi mentioned. This is not ideal,
> but manageable, not to mention extremely flexible and always reflects
> changes. I’ve looked into material style sheets and they are quite
> powerful, but not as nice to manage from a UI perspective. I found I’d
> rather manage additional objects with object merges and their material
> assignments, etc. Nevertheless, MSS can get the job done.
>
>
>
> What I’d wish for is a graph similar to Katana, where nodes collect the
> objects and lights. Additional nodes provide material assignment and
> overrides. Or simply bundles with overrides :D
>
>
>
> I’m still putting the pieces together to file an RFE with SESI.
>
>
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 23.03.2017, at 14:11, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Yep. Worth mentioning the Material SOP too where you can override on a per
> point/primitive/global level if you need to.
>
> It was also pointed out to me the other day that the Material SOP is
> capable of generating material stylesheets for you. I'm still getting my
> head around that particular functionality, but I can see it has the
> potential to be very helpful in a more automated pipeline.
>
> A
>
>
> On 23/03/2017 12:36, Jordi Bares wrote:
>
> Indeed, no matter which software we choose we will certainly miss
> Softimage overrides and passes… Houdini offers a few approaches but none of
> them is as smooth and easy as Softimage.
>
>
>
> The best route I have round is to use Object_Merges to do the overrides
> but indeed it is not as nice… :-P
>
>
>
> BTW, check Material Style Sheets… will open som

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-24 Thread Rob Wuijster

Regarding options mentioned about rendering, I would appreciate it a lot
if someone would set up some very basic examples of object merges and
the wedge output node to organize renders.

thanks!

Rob Wuijster
E r...@casema.nl

\/-\/\/

On 23-3-2017 15:05, Andy Goehler wrote:
Regarding Passes, at first it felt really strange, everything seemed
different. But after some time and getting into bundles the basics
were mastered. What always bugged me in Softimage was managing
partitions across passes. If there were changes you’d be hunting down
all the partitions in various passes. I’ve always wished for something
expression based. With wildcards on ROPs and smart bundles this opened
the doors of freedom. I never worry about that anymore.

For overrides I use object merges, as Jordi mentioned. This is not
ideal, but manageable, not to mention extremely flexible and always
reflects changes. I’ve looked into material style sheets and they are
quite powerful, but not as nice to manage from a UI perspective. I
found I’d rather manage additional objects with object merges and
their material assignments, etc. Nevertheless, MSS can get the job done.

What I’d wish for is a graph similar to Katana, where nodes collect
the objects and lights. Additional nodes provide material assignment
and overrides. Or simply bundles with overrides :D

I’m still putting the pieces together to file an RFE with SESI.

Andy

On 23.03.2017, at 14:11, Andy Nicholas > wrote:

Yep. Worth mentioning the Material SOP too where you can override on
a per point/primitive/global level if you need to.

It was also pointed out to me the other day that the Material SOP is
capable of generating material stylesheets for you. I'm still getting
my head around that particular functionality, but I can see it has
the potential to be very helpful in a more automated pipeline.

On 23/03/2017 12:36, Jordi Bares wrote:
Indeed, no matter which software we choose we will certainly miss
Softimage overrides and passes… Houdini offers a few approaches but
none of them is as smooth and easy as Softimage.

The best route I have round is to use Object_Merges to do the
overrides but indeed it is not as nice… :-P

BTW, check Material Style Sheets… will open some new avenues that
may be useful.

On 23 Mar 2017, at 08:50, Rob Wuijster > wrote:

@Jordi and others:

Besides all the new stuff to learn, where - as you said - some
stuff is easier than others (VEX), my main gripe is rendering.
I still try to get some workflow running where I can easily create
Passes/Partitions/overrides like I did in Softimage.

I know it's not the same thing in H, but not being able to quickly
override shaders on top scene level, or in bundles is a huge miss.

It often results in multiple shaders and switches.

There's also Takes, but from what I've read on it most people stay
clear from it. And there's material stylesheets which are a tad
over-designed and not really user friendly imho.

So any workflows people developed on rendering, after starting to
use Houdini, are very much welcome.

cheers!

Rob

\/-\/\/
On 22-3-2017 11:36, Jordi Bares wrote:

Yet for the points mentioned, I would have an easier time agreeing with you if indeed I found "some
things to be easier, and others not", whereas beyond what could be associated to "XSI muscle
memory", the sheer quantity or proportions of things that are not not just easier, but considerably
much (much!) easier, makes it hard to just overlook and just "go with it", especially when knowing
how things can be.

Putting aside the fact we have to move out of Softimage sooner or later
(hardware, OS, drivers, freelancers, support, etc… will eventually force us out)

Putting aside those areas Sofimage can’t compete because it does not have the
functionality (heavy duty FX mostly, Terrains, Game integration, etc…)

I would like to focus on those day to day scenarios you feel are not easy in
Houdini, after all we could submit this input to Side Effects.

Is there any particular scenario you feel strongly Softimage is much more
comfortable/easy/convenient?

:-)

jb
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RE: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-24 Thread Jonathan Moore

The improvements to the network editor in Houdini 16 is probably my favourite 
aspect of the release. It answers many of the complaints you mention Oliver.

 

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Olivier Jeannel
Sent: 24 March 2017 09:46
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

 

Getting back to the subject of organisation, I still consider myself as a 
houdini beginner.

The thing is, it so open that you quickly import the ice science into vop and 
you get comfident enough quickly.

My experience is with the 15.5, and probably not the latest release.

I found the stiky notes not that handy ( clicking on it sometimes close it, or 
it gets in the way), naming a node or an area. was a pain, you enter the name 
hit "enter" and it bounces back to its previous name. Having to retype 3 or 4 
times until it catches it correctly.

The surrounding colored area that you can draw around your network were buggy 
as well. Once the network surrounded it was mostly unworkable...

So finally I just relied on colored nodes...

I also found the node editor to be a bit buggy when working with a high number 
of nodes. It can get slow, and the mouse pointer was clicking in an unprecize 
manner (when trying to pick the line between 2 nodes), sometimes creating 
disaster.

 And by high number of nodes i mean : my final scene was having one big obj/geo 
node for the animation, containing a dozen of complete big sop trees (with for 
each, vop, and a few dops, some cachefiles..).

I found that working within one single big node was better than having to jump 
back and forth into exterior nodes.

But the downside is that I had to navigate (swim) in that huge forest of slow 
undocumented trees.

 

Seems they fixed all this naming, note and coloring in the 16. If someone can 
confirm. 

On Thursday, March 23, 2017, Andy Goehler <lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com 
<mailto:lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Regarding Passes, at first it felt really strange, everything seemed different. 
But after some time and getting into bundles the basics were mastered. What 
always bugged me in Softimage was managing partitions across passes. If there 
were changes you’d be hunting down all the partitions in various passes. I’ve 
always wished for something expression based. With wildcards on ROPs and smart 
bundles this opened the doors of freedom. I never worry about that anymore.

 

For overrides I use object merges, as Jordi mentioned. This is not ideal, but 
manageable, not to mention extremely flexible and always reflects changes. I’ve 
looked into material style sheets and they are quite powerful, but not as nice 
to manage from a UI perspective. I found I’d rather manage additional objects 
with object merges and their material assignments, etc. Nevertheless, MSS can 
get the job done.

 

What I’d wish for is a graph similar to Katana, where nodes collect the objects 
and lights. Additional nodes provide material assignment and overrides. Or 
simply bundles with overrides :D

 

I’m still putting the pieces together to file an RFE with SESI.

 

Andy

 

 

 

On 23.03.2017, at 14:11, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','a...@andynicholas.com');> > wrote:

 

Yep. Worth mentioning the Material SOP too where you can override on a per 
point/primitive/global level if you need to.

It was also pointed out to me the other day that the Material SOP is capable of 
generating material stylesheets for you. I'm still getting my head around that 
particular functionality, but I can see it has the potential to be very helpful 
in a more automated pipeline.

A




On 23/03/2017 12:36, Jordi Bares wrote:

Indeed, no matter which software we choose we will certainly miss Softimage 
overrides and passes… Houdini offers a few approaches but none of them is as 
smooth and easy as Softimage. 

 

The best route I have round is to use Object_Merges to do the overrides but 
indeed it is not as nice… :-P

 

BTW, check Material Style Sheets… will open some new avenues that may be useful.

 

jb

 

 

On 23 Mar 2017, at 08:50, Rob Wuijster <r...@casema.nl 
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','r...@casema.nl');> > wrote:

 

@Jordi and others:

Besides all the new stuff to learn, where - as you said - some stuff is easier 
than others (VEX), my main gripe is rendering.
I still try to get some workflow running where I can easily create 
Passes/Partitions/overrides like I did in Softimage.

I know it's not the same thing in H, but not being able to quickly override 
shaders on top scene level, or in bundles is a huge miss.
It often results in multiple shaders and switches.

There's also Takes, but from what I've read on it most people stay clear from 
it. And there's material stylesheet

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-24 Thread Artur W

It's a very cool feature. Copy and pasting several nodes and accidentally
dropping it on existing one. Very cool to make a new setup in seconds. NOT.

Artur

2017-03-24 11:44 GMT+01:00 <p...@bustykelp.com>:

> When I try and move nodes when making VOP networks. I have to be very
> careful as if I put it in the wrong place, it will autoconnect up the
> wires. Is there a way of disabling or dealing with this annoying feature
>
> *From:* Andy Goehler <lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 24, 2017 10:13 AM
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.https://groups.google.
> com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>
>
>
> On 24.03.2017, at 10:45, Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Seems they fixed all this naming, note and coloring in the 16. If someone
> can confirm.
>
>
> Yes, the pre H16 node editor annoyances were mostly addressed in H16.
> Also, navigating large SOP networks, or networks in generell is made much
> easier by using quickmarks. And don’t forget the birds eye overview.
>
> One of our Softimage look devs hated the fact, that you had to click first
> then connect with nodes. This was also addressed in H16 in which you can
> now click and drag to connect nodes.
>
> Some of these worklfow issues seem so obvious that it’s easily aggravating
> that they are absent. However, if you look into the lifetime of a product
> it becomes clear that focus was somewhere else. But recent releases have
> shown that SESI tries to do better in these areas as well.
>
> I’ve praised SESI support so many times in the past and it’s repeated
> throughout the Houdini community. Take a minute or two and write down a
> worklfow or feature request and file it with support. Each Houdini release
> resembles a lot of these requests.
>
> DOP, SOP, Hooray :D
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
> --
> --
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> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
>
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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-24 Thread paul

When I try and move nodes when making VOP networks. I have to be very careful 
as if I put it in the wrong place, it will autoconnect up the wires. Is there a 
way of disabling or dealing with this annoying feature

From: Andy Goehler 
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 10:13 AM
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing 
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

  On 24.03.2017, at 10:45, Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com> wrote:

  Seems they fixed all this naming, note and coloring in the 16. If someone can 
confirm. 

Yes, the pre H16 node editor annoyances were mostly addressed in H16. Also, 
navigating large SOP networks, or networks in generell is made much easier by 
using quickmarks. And don’t forget the birds eye overview.

One of our Softimage look devs hated the fact, that you had to click first then 
connect with nodes. This was also addressed in H16 in which you can now click 
and drag to connect nodes.

Some of these worklfow issues seem so obvious that it’s easily aggravating that 
they are absent. However, if you look into the lifetime of a product it becomes 
clear that focus was somewhere else. But recent releases have shown that SESI 
tries to do better in these areas as well.

I’ve praised SESI support so many times in the past and it’s repeated 
throughout the Houdini community. Take a minute or two and write down a 
worklfow or feature request and file it with support. Each Houdini release 
resembles a lot of these requests.

DOP, SOP, Hooray :D

Andy

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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-24 Thread Andy Goehler

> 
> On 24.03.2017, at 10:45, Olivier Jeannel  wrote:
> 
> Seems they fixed all this naming, note and coloring in the 16. If someone can 
> confirm. 

Yes, the pre H16 node editor annoyances were mostly addressed in H16. Also, 
navigating large SOP networks, or networks in generell is made much easier by 
using quickmarks. And don’t forget the birds eye overview.

One of our Softimage look devs hated the fact, that you had to click first then 
connect with nodes. This was also addressed in H16 in which you can now click 
and drag to connect nodes.

Some of these worklfow issues seem so obvious that it’s easily aggravating that 
they are absent. However, if you look into the lifetime of a product it becomes 
clear that focus was somewhere else. But recent releases have shown that SESI 
tries to do better in these areas as well.

I’ve praised SESI support so many times in the past and it’s repeated 
throughout the Houdini community. Take a minute or two and write down a 
worklfow or feature request and file it with support. Each Houdini release 
resembles a lot of these requests.

DOP, SOP, Hooray :D

Andy

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Softimage Mailing List.
To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
"unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-24 Thread Andy Nicholas

> Seems they fixed all this naming, note and coloring in the 16. If 
someone can confirm.

Yes, they've addressed a lot of those problems. Those shifting network 
boxes used to drive me nuts. Also, that thing where you carefully line 
up all your nodes and get all OCD about their layout, dive down a level, 
come back up, and somehow they've got misaligned. Gah! But good to see 
that that's not happening any more.

I dare say there'll still be a few gotchas (dealing with 
connecting/disconnecting nodes when the nodes are close together is a 
bit of an issue) , but I'd hope they'll be ironed out fairly quickly.

On 24/03/2017 09:45, Olivier Jeannel wrote:
Getting back to the subject of organisation, I still consider myself 
as a houdini beginner.
The thing is, it so open that you quickly import the ice science into 
vop and you get comfident enough quickly.

My experience is with the 15.5, and probably not the latest release.
I found the stiky notes not that handy ( clicking on it sometimes 
close it, or it gets in the way), naming a node or an area. was a 
pain, you enter the name hit "enter" and it bounces back to its 
previous name. Having to retype 3 or 4 times until it catches it 
correctly.
The surrounding colored area that you can draw around your network 
were buggy as well. Once the network surrounded it was mostly 
unworkable...

So finally I just relied on colored nodes...
I also found the node editor to be a bit buggy when working with a 
high number of nodes. It can get slow, and the mouse pointer was 
clicking in an unprecize manner (when trying to pick the line between 
2 nodes), sometimes creating disaster.
 And by high number of nodes i mean : my final scene was having one 
big obj/geo node for the animation, containing a dozen of complete big 
sop trees (with for each, vop, and a few dops, some cachefiles..).
I found that working within one single big node was better than having 
to jump back and forth into exterior nodes.
But the downside is that I had to navigate (swim) in that huge forest 
of slow undocumented trees.

Seems they fixed all this naming, note and coloring in the 16. If 
someone can confirm.

On Thursday, March 23, 2017, Andy Goehler 
> 
wrote:

Regarding Passes, at first it felt really strange, everything
seemed different. But after some time and getting into bundles the
basics were mastered. What always bugged me in Softimage was
managing partitions across passes. If there were changes you’d be
hunting down all the partitions in various passes. I’ve always
wished for something expression based. With wildcards on ROPs and
smart bundles this opened the doors of freedom. I never worry
about that anymore.

For overrides I use object merges, as Jordi mentioned. This is not
ideal, but manageable, not to mention extremely flexible and
always reflects changes. I’ve looked into material style sheets
and they are quite powerful, but not as nice to manage from a UI
perspective. I found I’d rather manage additional objects with
object merges and their material assignments, etc. Nevertheless,
MSS can get the job done.

What I’d wish for is a graph similar to Katana, where nodes
collect the objects and lights. Additional nodes provide material
assignment and overrides. Or simply bundles with overrides :D

I’m still putting the pieces together to file an RFE with SESI.

Andy

On 23.03.2017, at 14:11, Andy Nicholas > wrote:

Yep. Worth mentioning the Material SOP too where you can override
on a per point/primitive/global level if you need to.

It was also pointed out to me the other day that the Material SOP
is capable of generating material stylesheets for you. I'm still
getting my head around that particular functionality, but I can
see it has the potential to be very helpful in a more automated
pipeline.

A

On 23/03/2017 12:36, Jordi Bares wrote:

Indeed, no matter which software we choose we will certainly
miss Softimage overrides and passes… Houdini offers a few
approaches but none of them is as smooth and easy as Softimage.

The best route I have round is to use Object_Merges to do the
overrides but indeed it is not as nice… :-P

BTW, check Material Style Sheets… will open some new avenues
that may be useful.

jb

On 23 Mar 2017, at 08:50, Rob Wuijster > wrote:

@Jordi and others:

Besides all the new stuff to learn, where - as you said - some
stuff is easier than others (VEX), my main gripe is rendering.
I still try to get some workflow running where I can easily
create Passes/Partitions/overrides like I did in Softimage.

I know it's not the same thing in H, but not being

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-24 Thread Olivier Jeannel

Getting back to the subject of organisation, I still consider myself as a
houdini beginner.
The thing is, it so open that you quickly import the ice science into vop
and you get comfident enough quickly.
My experience is with the 15.5, and probably not the latest release.
I found the stiky notes not that handy ( clicking on it sometimes close it,
or it gets in the way), naming a node or an area. was a pain, you enter the
name hit "enter" and it bounces back to its previous name. Having to retype
3 or 4 times until it catches it correctly.
The surrounding colored area that you can draw around your network were
buggy as well. Once the network surrounded it was mostly unworkable...
So finally I just relied on colored nodes...
I also found the node editor to be a bit buggy when working with a high
number of nodes. It can get slow, and the mouse pointer was clicking in an
unprecize manner (when trying to pick the line between 2 nodes), sometimes
creating disaster.
 And by high number of nodes i mean : my final scene was having one big
obj/geo node for the animation, containing a dozen of complete big sop
trees (with for each, vop, and a few dops, some cachefiles..).
I found that working within one single big node was better than having to
jump back and forth into exterior nodes.
But the downside is that I had to navigate (swim) in that huge forest of
slow undocumented trees.

Seems they fixed all this naming, note and coloring in the 16. If someone
can confirm.

On Thursday, March 23, 2017, Andy Goehler 
wrote:

> Regarding Passes, at first it felt really strange, everything seemed
> different. But after some time and getting into bundles the basics were
> mastered. What always bugged me in Softimage was managing partitions across
> passes. If there were changes you’d be hunting down all the partitions in
> various passes. I’ve always wished for something expression based. With
> wildcards on ROPs and smart bundles this opened the doors of freedom. I
> never worry about that anymore.
>
> For overrides I use object merges, as Jordi mentioned. This is not ideal,
> but manageable, not to mention extremely flexible and always reflects
> changes. I’ve looked into material style sheets and they are quite
> powerful, but not as nice to manage from a UI perspective. I found I’d
> rather manage additional objects with object merges and their material
> assignments, etc. Nevertheless, MSS can get the job done.
>
> What I’d wish for is a graph similar to Katana, where nodes collect the
> objects and lights. Additional nodes provide material assignment and
> overrides. Or simply bundles with overrides :D
>
> I’m still putting the pieces together to file an RFE with SESI.
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> On 23.03.2017, at 14:11, Andy Nicholas  > wrote:
>
> Yep. Worth mentioning the Material SOP too where you can override on a per
> point/primitive/global level if you need to.
>
> It was also pointed out to me the other day that the Material SOP is
> capable of generating material stylesheets for you. I'm still getting my
> head around that particular functionality, but I can see it has the
> potential to be very helpful in a more automated pipeline.
>
> A
>
>
>
> On 23/03/2017 12:36, Jordi Bares wrote:
>
> Indeed, no matter which software we choose we will certainly miss
> Softimage overrides and passes… Houdini offers a few approaches but none of
> them is as smooth and easy as Softimage.
>
> The best route I have round is to use Object_Merges to do the overrides
> but indeed it is not as nice… :-P
>
> BTW, check Material Style Sheets… will open some new avenues that may be
> useful.
>
> jb
>
>
> On 23 Mar 2017, at 08:50, Rob Wuijster  > wrote:
>
> @Jordi and others:
>
> Besides all the new stuff to learn, where - as you said - some stuff is
> easier than others (VEX), my main gripe is rendering.
> I still try to get some workflow running where I can easily create
> Passes/Partitions/overrides like I did in Softimage.
>
> I know it's not the same thing in H, but not being able to quickly
> override shaders on top scene level, or in bundles is a huge miss.
> It often results in multiple shaders and switches.
>
> There's also Takes, but from what I've read on it most people stay clear
> from it. And there's material stylesheets which are a tad over-designed and
> not really user friendly imho.
>
> So any workflows people developed on rendering, after starting to use
> Houdini, are very much welcome.
>
> cheers!
>
> Rob
>
> \/-\/\/
>
> On 22-3-2017 11:36, Jordi Bares wrote:
>
>
> Yet for the points mentioned, I would have an easier time agreeing with you 
> if indeed I found "some things to be easier, and others not", whereas beyond 
> what could be associated to "XSI muscle memory",  the sheer quantity or 
> proportions of things that are

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-23 Thread Andy Goehler

Regarding Passes, at first it felt really strange, everything seemed different. 
But after some time and getting into bundles the basics were mastered. What 
always bugged me in Softimage was managing partitions across passes. If there 
were changes you’d be hunting down all the partitions in various passes. I’ve 
always wished for something expression based. With wildcards on ROPs and smart 
bundles this opened the doors of freedom. I never worry about that anymore.

For overrides I use object merges, as Jordi mentioned. This is not ideal, but 
manageable, not to mention extremely flexible and always reflects changes. I’ve 
looked into material style sheets and they are quite powerful, but not as nice 
to manage from a UI perspective. I found I’d rather manage additional objects 
with object merges and their material assignments, etc. Nevertheless, MSS can 
get the job done.

What I’d wish for is a graph similar to Katana, where nodes collect the objects 
and lights. Additional nodes provide material assignment and overrides. Or 
simply bundles with overrides :D

I’m still putting the pieces together to file an RFE with SESI.

Andy

> On 23.03.2017, at 14:11, Andy Nicholas  wrote:
> 
> Yep. Worth mentioning the Material SOP too where you can override on a per 
> point/primitive/global level if you need to.
> 
> It was also pointed out to me the other day that the Material SOP is capable 
> of generating material stylesheets for you. I'm still getting my head around 
> that particular functionality, but I can see it has the potential to be very 
> helpful in a more automated pipeline.
> 
> A
> 
> 
> 
> On 23/03/2017 12:36, Jordi Bares wrote:
>> Indeed, no matter which software we choose we will certainly miss Softimage 
>> overrides and passes… Houdini offers a few approaches but none of them is as 
>> smooth and easy as Softimage.
>> 
>> The best route I have round is to use Object_Merges to do the overrides but 
>> indeed it is not as nice… :-P
>> 
>> BTW, check Material Style Sheets… will open some new avenues that may be 
>> useful.
>> 
>> jb
>> 
>> 
>>> On 23 Mar 2017, at 08:50, Rob Wuijster >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> @Jordi and others:
>>> 
>>> Besides all the new stuff to learn, where - as you said - some stuff is 
>>> easier than others (VEX), my main gripe is rendering.
>>> I still try to get some workflow running where I can easily create 
>>> Passes/Partitions/overrides like I did in Softimage.
>>> 
>>> I know it's not the same thing in H, but not being able to quickly override 
>>> shaders on top scene level, or in bundles is a huge miss.
>>> It often results in multiple shaders and switches.
>>> 
>>> There's also Takes, but from what I've read on it most people stay clear 
>>> from it. And there's material stylesheets which are a tad over-designed and 
>>> not really user friendly imho.
>>> 
>>> So any workflows people developed on rendering, after starting to use 
>>> Houdini, are very much welcome.
>>> 
>>> cheers!
>>> 
>>> Rob
>>> 
>>> \/-\/\/
>>> On 22-3-2017 11:36, Jordi Bares wrote:

> Yet for the points mentioned, I would have an easier time agreeing with 
> you if indeed I found "some things to be easier, and others not", whereas 
> beyond what could be associated to "XSI muscle memory",  the sheer 
> quantity or proportions of things that are not not just easier, but 
> considerably much (much!) easier, makes it hard to just overlook and just 
> "go with it", especially when knowing how things can be.
 Putting aside the fact we have to move out of Softimage sooner or later 
 (hardware, OS, drivers, freelancers, support, etc… will eventually force 
 us out)

 Putting aside those areas Sofimage can’t compete because it does not have 
 the functionality (heavy duty FX mostly, Terrains, Game integration, etc…)

 I would like to focus on those day to day scenarios you feel are not easy 
 in Houdini, after all we could submit this input to Side Effects.

 Is there any particular scenario you feel strongly Softimage is much more 
 comfortable/easy/convenient?

 :-)

 jb
 --
 Softimage Mailing List.
 To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com 
  with "unsubscribe" in the 
 subject, and reply to confirm.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Softimage Mailing List.
>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>>>  with "unsubscribe" in the 
>>> subject, and reply to confirm.
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>>  with "unsubscribe" in the 
>> subject, and reply to confirm.
> 
> --
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> To

RE: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-23 Thread Jonathan Moore

It’s also worth learning about the Wedge output node. You can use this to 
automate channel variations and/or link it to the Takes system. 

 

http://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini/nodes/out/wedge

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jordi Bares
Sent: 23 March 2017 12:36
To: r...@casema.nl; Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

 

Indeed, no matter which software we choose we will certainly miss Softimage 
overrides and passes… Houdini offers a few approaches but none of them is as 
smooth and easy as Softimage.

 

The best route I have round is to use Object_Merges to do the overrides but 
indeed it is not as nice… :-P

 

BTW, check Material Style Sheets… will open some new avenues that may be useful.

 

jb

 

 

On 23 Mar 2017, at 08:50, Rob Wuijster <r...@casema.nl <mailto:r...@casema.nl> 
> wrote:

 

@Jordi and others:

Besides all the new stuff to learn, where - as you said - some stuff is easier 
than others (VEX), my main gripe is rendering.
I still try to get some workflow running where I can easily create 
Passes/Partitions/overrides like I did in Softimage.

I know it's not the same thing in H, but not being able to quickly override 
shaders on top scene level, or in bundles is a huge miss.
It often results in multiple shaders and switches.

There's also Takes, but from what I've read on it most people stay clear from 
it. And there's material stylesheets which are a tad over-designed and not 
really user friendly imho.

So any workflows people developed on rendering, after starting to use Houdini, 
are very much welcome.

cheers!
 
Rob
 
\/-\/\/

On 22-3-2017 11:36, Jordi Bares wrote:





Yet for the points mentioned, I would have an easier time agreeing with you if 
indeed I found "some things to be easier, and others not", whereas beyond what 
could be associated to "XSI muscle memory",  the sheer quantity or proportions 
of things that are not not just easier, but considerably much (much!) easier, 
makes it hard to just overlook and just "go with it", especially when knowing 
how things can be.

Putting aside the fact we have to move out of Softimage sooner or later 
(hardware, OS, drivers, freelancers, support, etc… will eventually force us out)
 
Putting aside those areas Sofimage can’t compete because it does not have the 
functionality (heavy duty FX mostly, Terrains, Game integration, etc…)
 
I would like to focus on those day to day scenarios you feel are not easy in 
Houdini, after all we could submit this input to Side Effects.
 
Is there any particular scenario you feel strongly Softimage is much more 
comfortable/easy/convenient?
 
:-)
 
jb
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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-23 Thread Andy Nicholas

Yep. Worth mentioning the Material SOP too where you can override on a
per point/primitive/global level if you need to.

It was also pointed out to me the other day that the Material SOP is
capable of generating material stylesheets for you. I'm still getting my
head around that particular functionality, but I can see it has the
potential to be very helpful in a more automated pipeline.

The best route I have round is to use Object_Merges to do the
overrides but indeed it is not as nice… :-P

BTW, check Material Style Sheets… will open some new avenues that may
be useful.

On 23 Mar 2017, at 08:50, Rob Wuijster > wrote:

@Jordi and others:

Besides all the new stuff to learn, where - as you said - some stuff
is easier than others (VEX), my main gripe is rendering.
I still try to get some workflow running where I can easily create
Passes/Partitions/overrides like I did in Softimage.

I know it's not the same thing in H, but not being able to quickly
override shaders on top scene level, or in bundles is a huge miss.

It often results in multiple shaders and switches.

There's also Takes, but from what I've read on it most people stay
clear from it. And there's material stylesheets which are a tad
over-designed and not really user friendly imho.

So any workflows people developed on rendering, after starting to use
Houdini, are very much welcome.

cheers!

Rob

\/-\/\/
On 22-3-2017 11:36, Jordi Bares wrote:

Putting aside the fact we have to move out of Softimage sooner or later
(hardware, OS, drivers, freelancers, support, etc… will eventually force us out)

Putting aside those areas Sofimage can’t compete because it does not have the
functionality (heavy duty FX mostly, Terrains, Game integration, etc…)

I would like to focus on those day to day scenarios you feel are not easy in
Houdini, after all we could submit this input to Side Effects.

Is there any particular scenario you feel strongly Softimage is much more
comfortable/easy/convenient?

:-)

jb
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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-23 Thread Jordi Bares

Indeed, no matter which software we choose we will certainly miss Softimage 
overrides and passes… Houdini offers a few approaches but none of them is as 
smooth and easy as Softimage.

The best route I have round is to use Object_Merges to do the overrides but 
indeed it is not as nice… :-P

BTW, check Material Style Sheets… will open some new avenues that may be useful.

jb


> On 23 Mar 2017, at 08:50, Rob Wuijster  wrote:
> 
> @Jordi and others:
> 
> Besides all the new stuff to learn, where - as you said - some stuff is 
> easier than others (VEX), my main gripe is rendering.
> I still try to get some workflow running where I can easily create 
> Passes/Partitions/overrides like I did in Softimage.
> 
> I know it's not the same thing in H, but not being able to quickly override 
> shaders on top scene level, or in bundles is a huge miss.
> It often results in multiple shaders and switches.
> 
> There's also Takes, but from what I've read on it most people stay clear from 
> it. And there's material stylesheets which are a tad over-designed and not 
> really user friendly imho.
> 
> So any workflows people developed on rendering, after starting to use 
> Houdini, are very much welcome.
> 
> cheers!
> 
> Rob
> 
> \/-\/\/
> On 22-3-2017 11:36, Jordi Bares wrote:
>> 
>>> Yet for the points mentioned, I would have an easier time agreeing with you 
>>> if indeed I found "some things to be easier, and others not", whereas 
>>> beyond what could be associated to "XSI muscle memory",  the sheer quantity 
>>> or proportions of things that are not not just easier, but considerably 
>>> much (much!) easier, makes it hard to just overlook and just "go with it", 
>>> especially when knowing how things can be.
>> Putting aside the fact we have to move out of Softimage sooner or later 
>> (hardware, OS, drivers, freelancers, support, etc… will eventually force us 
>> out)
>> 
>> Putting aside those areas Sofimage can’t compete because it does not have 
>> the functionality (heavy duty FX mostly, Terrains, Game integration, etc…)
>> 
>> I would like to focus on those day to day scenarios you feel are not easy in 
>> Houdini, after all we could submit this input to Side Effects.
>> 
>> Is there any particular scenario you feel strongly Softimage is much more 
>> comfortable/easy/convenient?
>> 
>> :-)
>> 
>> jb
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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-23 Thread Rob Wuijster

@Jordi and others:

Besides all the new stuff to learn, where - as you said - some stuff is
easier than others (VEX), my main gripe is rendering.
I still try to get some workflow running where I can easily create
Passes/Partitions/overrides like I did in Softimage.

I know it's not the same thing in H, but not being able to quickly
override shaders on top scene level, or in bundles is a huge miss.

It often results in multiple shaders and switches.

There's also Takes, but from what I've read on it most people stay clear
from it. And there's material stylesheets which are a tad over-designed
and not really user friendly imho.

So any workflows people developed on rendering, after starting to use
Houdini, are very much welcome.

cheers!

Rob

\/-\/\/

On 22-3-2017 11:36, Jordi Bares wrote:

Putting aside the fact we have to move out of Softimage sooner or later
(hardware, OS, drivers, freelancers, support, etc… will eventually force us out)

Putting aside those areas Sofimage can’t compete because it does not have the
functionality (heavy duty FX mostly, Terrains, Game integration, etc…)

I would like to focus on those day to day scenarios you feel are not easy in
Houdini, after all we could submit this input to Side Effects.

Is there any particular scenario you feel strongly Softimage is much more
comfortable/easy/convenient?

:-)

jb
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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-22 Thread Andy Goehler

Yes, we’ve used Exocortex Crate to successfully get Strands into Houdini. I 
think it also works with the onboard Alembic exporter, not sure though.

Have fun
Andy

> On Mar 22, 2017, at 3:52 PM, p...@bustykelp.com wrote:
> 
> Hi.. Seeing as this thread is Random thoughts about Houdini, this is pretty 
> random..
>  
> Does anyone know if its possible ( maybe through Alembic, which can store 
> them) , to get ICE Strands into Houdini?
>  
> From: Andy Goehler <mailto:lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 2:17 PM
> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing 
> List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
> <mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
> Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>  
> Funny how that is. I find it the other way around, especially opening 
> differently organized scenes coming from Softimage co-workers :D
> Honestly I don’t organize my Houdini scenes any more than I did in Softimage. 
> But the network editor allows me to work spatially instead of using the 
> explorer in a list or hierarchical fashion and that just suits me sooo much 
> better, since the schematic in Soft is… well old.
>  
> I guess the different levels of context and therefore a compartmentalization 
> of workflow is what Softimage users tend to struggle with, maybe this is what 
> you mean by organisation?
>  
> Have fun
> Andy
>  
>> On 22.03.2017, at 13:50, Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>  
>> Houdini requires a high level of organisation, and that's by far, to me, the 
>> hardest part.
> 
>  
> 
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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-22 Thread Jason S

On 03/22/17 10:07, Jordi Bares wrote:
> Below
>>> Putting aside the fact we have to move out of Softimage sooner or later 
>>> (hardware, OS, drivers, freelancers, support, etc… will eventually force us 
>>> out)
>> Indeed 'sooner or later'
>> ... 10+ years? when sampling the freshly released hypothetical 2070 Nvidias 
>> running on Win 12? when we could then fully switch with our feet already wet 
>> in a number of camps, also being at a point when favored alternatives would 
>> have *very progressively* matured in a number of areas, or not just in 1 
>> area such as modeling.
>> (I think our transition should be just as proportionately proportional to 
>> that inevitably *very gradual* progression)
> It is really up to you, specially if you are a one man band or a tiny 
> creative studio with no intention of growing of course…
Or rather large shops making the most recent lego (batman), or 
terminator flix ;)
(with probably still a fraction of (specialized dev) resources)

> ultimately if it works for you to carry on until you are 90 years old ;-) 
> then you should be fine, but I wouldn’t bet either hardware, drivers, OS 
> manufacturers will be trying to stay compatible with Softimage.
Actually both os and hardware manufacturers go to great strides on 
maintaining backwards compatibility when introducing new methods. The 
earliest version of ModTool can run just fine to todays hardware.

If in 10 years things would still be easier in my extra modified SI 2015 
pro plus, and it still works,
(would rather hope alternatives would have greatly improved by then)
you can bet I would personally still be doing stuff in there!
>>> I would like to focus on those day to day scenarios you feel are not easy 
>>> in Houdini, after all we could submit this input to Side Effects.
>>>
>>> Is there any particular scenario you feel strongly Softimage is much more 
>>> comfortable/easy/convenient?
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> jb
>> Actually, the first email in this thread wasn't just for here, but also with 
>> the intent of posting on Sesi forums ( for the ICE part )
>> while also feeling very compelled to do the same for other parts (probably 
>> as progressively as I would dive deeper in other sections).
> As you get comfortable things will fall in to place and believe me, you will 
> look back and thing… wow… that was not as great as I remembered it…. :-)
I think the point should be to getting towards that (for things to 
become greater than what we remember)
in as many fronts as possible, which as far as I can tell, does indeed 
apply to some aspects,
while not at-all in soo many others.. (right now)

(as opposed to trying to convince myself of that, weather it is true or not)

>> I was very impressed and encouraged by the the reaction / openness from 
>> staff, and later by the results of McNistor's initiative around modeling.
>>
>> And I (along with many others I'm sure) would not want that to end there!
>>
>> Cheers!,
>> -J
> cheers
> jb
>
Cheers! :)

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RE: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-22 Thread Jonathan Moore

I’m with you Andy.

 

The thing I think makes the biggest difference when you first start out on your 
Houdini journey is having an ability to stop comparing Houdini to 
Softimage/Maya/C4D etc. It’s seems blasé to say that, but the sooner you start 
using Houdini it on its own terms the sooner things click into place.

 

As Yoda was so fond of saying ‘apprentice, you must unlearn what you have 
learned’.  

 

It really helps things click into place.

 

I’d agree with Oliver that it helps a lot to be organised. Drop down stickies 
wherever you think things might need clarification further down the line on a 
return visit to the project. Outside of Houdini I’m as far from OCD as it gets 
(just ask my long suffering girlfriend), but in Houdini I inexplicably become 
quite ordered about things. I’m hoping some of that orderliness might cross 
over to other aspects of my life!

 

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Goehler
Sent: 22 March 2017 14:17
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

 

Funny how that is. I find it the other way around, especially opening 
differently organized scenes coming from Softimage co-workers :D

Honestly I don’t organize my Houdini scenes any more than I did in Softimage. 
But the network editor allows me to work spatially instead of using the 
explorer in a list or hierarchical fashion and that just suits me sooo much 
better, since the schematic in Soft is… well old.

 

I guess the different levels of context and therefore a compartmentalization of 
workflow is what Softimage users tend to struggle with, maybe this is what you 
mean by organisation?

 

Have fun

Andy

 

On 22.03.2017, at 13:50, Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com 
<mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Houdini requires a high level of organisation, and that's by far, to me, the 
hardest part.

 

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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-22 Thread paul

Hi.. Seeing as this thread is Random thoughts about Houdini, this is pretty 
random..

Does anyone know if its possible ( maybe through Alembic, which can store them) 
, to get ICE Strands into Houdini?

From: Andy Goehler 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 2:17 PM
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing 
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

Funny how that is. I find it the other way around, especially opening 
differently organized scenes coming from Softimage co-workers :D 
Honestly I don’t organize my Houdini scenes any more than I did in Softimage. 
But the network editor allows me to work spatially instead of using the 
explorer in a list or hierarchical fashion and that just suits me sooo much 
better, since the schematic in Soft is… well old.

I guess the different levels of context and therefore a compartmentalization of 
workflow is what Softimage users tend to struggle with, maybe this is what you 
mean by organisation?

Have fun
Andy

  On 22.03.2017, at 13:50, Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com> wrote:

  Houdini requires a high level of organisation, and that's by far, to me, the 
hardest part.

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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-22 Thread Andy Goehler

Funny how that is. I find it the other way around, especially opening 
differently organized scenes coming from Softimage co-workers :D
Honestly I don’t organize my Houdini scenes any more than I did in Softimage. 
But the network editor allows me to work spatially instead of using the 
explorer in a list or hierarchical fashion and that just suits me sooo much 
better, since the schematic in Soft is… well old.

I guess the different levels of context and therefore a compartmentalization of 
workflow is what Softimage users tend to struggle with, maybe this is what you 
mean by organisation?

Have fun
Andy

> On 22.03.2017, at 13:50, Olivier Jeannel  wrote:
> 
> Houdini requires a high level of organisation, and that's by far, to me, the 
> hardest part.

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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-22 Thread Jason S


  
  
Perhaps right now, but which could also
  greatly improve over time, through some 'friendly pressure' and
  some well thought-out/narrowed-down fair points :)
  
  On 03/22/17 8:50, Olivier Jeannel wrote:


  I think working in Houdini is rather exhausting. 
Dealing with freedom can be a total nightmare.
  I'm not saying it's not pleasing, but having to work on
scene that are constantly creating themeselves from scatch,
well it makes my brain overheating.
  That's quite a different process than opening an xsi
scene where setups are done, frozen, working in fixed
context, and always ending in passes.
  In houdini it keeps calling objects from everywhere,
computing stuff, going back, with a few additional
variables,  etc
  And, while it makes perfect sense when you are building
your incredible setup, it's a whole different story when you
open it 2 weeks later...
  Houdini requires a high level of organisation, and that's
by far, to me, the hardest part.

  
  
2017-03-22 12:00 GMT+01:00 Andy
  Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com>:
  
 Ah, I see,
  understood! :)
  

  
  On
22/03/2017 09:03, Jonathan Moore wrote:
  
  

  Andy,

  I meant nothing more than that last Cheat
  Sheet was published back in 2011. I’m sure a
  bunch of folk would be interested to see what
  your 2017 Cheat Sheet looks like. 
   
  
  

  From: softimage-bounces@listproc.autodesk.com
  [mailto:softimage-bounces@listproc.autodesk.com]
  On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas
  Sent: 21 March 2017 23:09
  To: Official Softimage Users
  Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
  <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
  Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about
      H.

  
   
  
Yep! Still reading
:) Here’s the link to the cheat sheet as it
didn’t come through in your email: http://www.andynicholas.com/?p=1344
  
  
 
  
  

  
I
think it would be brilliant if he
updated his Cheat Sheet for these post
HScript days.
  

  
  
 
  
  
They're
expressions, not HScript, or am I
misunderstanding what you’re getting at?
  
  
 
  
  
Anyway, if you have
suggestions about what you’d find useful
from an updated cheat sheet, then by all
means let me know. 
  
  
 
  
  
I did start looking
at making an update, and made a couple of
mind maps breaking down the most popular
SOPs and expressions into categories. I'll
can post that when I next get a chance.
  
  
 
  
  
A
  
  
 
  
  
 
  
   
  

  
On 21 Mar 2017, at
  19:07, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-22 Thread Olivier Jeannel

I think working in Houdini is rather exhausting.
Dealing with freedom can be a total nightmare.
I'm not saying it's not pleasing, but having to work on scene that are
constantly creating themeselves from scatch, well it makes my brain
overheating.
That's quite a different process than opening an xsi scene where setups are
done, frozen, working in fixed context, and always ending in passes.
In houdini it keeps calling objects from everywhere, computing stuff, going
back, with a few additional variables,  etc
And, while it makes perfect sense when you are building your incredible
setup, it's a whole different story when you open it 2 weeks later...
Houdini requires a high level of organisation, and that's by far, to me,
the hardest part.

2017-03-22 12:00 GMT+01:00 Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com>:

> Ah, I see, understood! :)
>
>
> On 22/03/2017 09:03, Jonathan Moore wrote:
>
> Andy, I meant nothing more than that last Cheat Sheet was published back
> in 2011. I’m sure a bunch of folk would be interested to see what your 2017
> Cheat Sheet looks like. 
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-bounces@
> listproc.autodesk.com <softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Andy Nicholas
> *Sent:* 21 March 2017 23:09
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/
> forum/#!forum/xsi_list <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
> <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>
>
>
> Yep! Still reading :) Here’s the link to the cheat sheet as it didn’t come
> through in your email: http://www.andynicholas.com/?p=1344
>
>
>
> I think it would be brilliant if he updated his Cheat Sheet for these post
> HScript days.
>
>
>
> They're expressions, not HScript, or am I misunderstanding what you’re
> getting at?
>
>
>
> Anyway, if you have suggestions about what you’d find useful from an
> updated cheat sheet, then by all means let me know.
>
>
>
> I did start looking at making an update, and made a couple of mind maps
> breaking down the most popular SOPs and expressions into categories. I'll
> can post that when I next get a chance.
>
>
>
> A
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 21 Mar 2017, at 19:07, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> I think Andy covered off most stuff. The only thing I can reiterate is the
> importance of VEX. I shared a link the other day to the VEX masterclass
> with Jeff Wagner and had positive feedback from other XSI alumni on this
> list. If you haven’t watched it yet, you should. It makes sense of many of
> SideFX’s design decisions.
>
>
>
> Ultimately Houdini is an operating system for 3d and becoming comfortable
> with VEX and Python within Houdini are mandatory things. SideFX might like
> to market Core as a replacement for XSI but VEX in particular and Python
> (if you want create portable assets) are essential ingredients in getting
> the most out of Houdini.
>
>
>
> I came to Houdini with a hackers knowledge of Python scripting and
>  competent Processing (which I suppose is Java) skills. Never learnt C++
> and I certainly wouldn’t classify myself as a programmer; and I find I’m
> comfortable with VEX. Sure I have the help browser opened permanently on my
> second browser the check my function arguments, but I muddle along without
> pain most of the time.
>
>
>
> If Andy’s still reading, I think it would be brilliant if he updated his
> Cheat Sheet for these post HScript days. When I was first learning Houdini
> it was a huge help. And funnily enough even though HScript has mostly been
> discarded, the list of ‘essential’ SOP operators Andy listed back in 2011
> are just as relevant in 2017.  
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
> <softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] *On Behalf Of *Jason S
> *Sent:* 21 March 2017 18:36
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.
> com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>
>
>
>
> Hi Andy,
>
> Thanks for the feedback!
>
> - Can handle lots of objects or elements and a few things became very much
> faster in recent versions (multi-threaded or openCL)
>(SI  is still is king for sheer high-poly-count on fewer objects, which
> includes *tons* of island transforms)
>
>
> Have a look at packed primitives. You can chunk your geometry into
> sections and get excellent performance there along with deferred rendering.
>
> For island management, then there are workflows that

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-22 Thread Jason S

Hi! (see below)

On 03/22/17 6:36, Jordi Bares wrote:

Jason S wrote:

Hi Jordi!

First I wanted to personally thank you for those docs, as they really did go straight to the crux.

Thank you, really appreciate knowing it has been useful. :-)

Yet for the points mentioned, I would have an easier time agreeing with you if indeed I found "some things to be easier, and others not", whereas beyond what could be associated to "XSI muscle memory", the sheer quantity or proportions of things that are not not just easier, but considerably much (much!) easier, makes it hard to just overlook and just "go with it", especially when knowing how things can be.

Putting aside the fact we have to move out of Softimage sooner or later (hardware, OS, drivers, freelancers, support, etc… will eventually force us out)

Indeed 'sooner or later'
... 10+ years? when sampling the freshly released hypothetical 2070
Nvidias running on Win 12? when we could then fully switch with our
feet already wet in a number of camps, also being at a point when
favored alternatives would have *very progressively* matured in a
number of areas, or not just in 1 area such as modeling.
(I think our transition should be just as proportionately
proportional to that inevitably *very gradual* progression)

I would agree for the freelancer bit, yet IMO that has alot to do
with the often very hard-pressed
"Quickly! sooner or later! Must switch now to whatever else!"
sentiment, which can be very arguable.

Putting aside those areas Sofimage can’t compete because it does not have the functionality (heavy duty FX mostly, Terrains, Game integration, etc…)

Agreed! ( currently for FX related things ;)

I would like to focus on those day to day scenarios you feel are not easy in Houdini, after all we could submit this input to Side Effects.

Is there any particular scenario you feel strongly Softimage is much more comfortable/easy/convenient?

:-)

Actually, the first email in this thread wasn't just for here, but
also with the intent of posting on Sesi forums ( for the ICE part )
while also feeling very compelled to do the same for other parts
(probably as progressively as I would dive deeper in other sections).

I was very impressed and encouraged by the the reaction / openness
from staff, and later by the results of McNistor's initiative around
modeling.

And I (along with many others I'm sure) would not want that to end
there!

Cheers!,
-J

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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-22 Thread Andy Nicholas

Ah, I see, understood! :)

On 22/03/2017 09:03, Jonathan Moore wrote:

Andy, I meant nothing more than that last Cheat Sheet was published
back in 2011. I’m sure a bunch of folk would be interested to see what
your 2017 Cheat Sheet looks like. 

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Andy
Nicholas

*Sent:* 21 March 2017 23:09
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>

*Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.

Yep! Still reading :) Here’s the link to the cheat sheet as it didn’t
come through in your email: http://www.andynicholas.com/?p=1344

I think it would be brilliant if he updated his Cheat Sheet for
these post HScript days.

They're expressions, not HScript, or am I misunderstanding what you’re
getting at?

Anyway, if you have suggestions about what you’d find useful from an
updated cheat sheet, then by all means let me know.

I did start looking at making an update, and made a couple of mind
maps breaking down the most popular SOPs and expressions into
categories. I'll can post that when I next get a chance.

On 21 Mar 2017, at 19:07, Jonathan Moore
<jonathan.moo...@gmail.com <mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I think Andy covered off most stuff. The only thing I can
reiterate is the importance of VEX. I shared a link the other day
to the VEX masterclass with Jeff Wagner and had positive feedback
from other XSI alumni on this list. If you haven’t watched it yet,
you should. It makes sense of many of SideFX’s design decisions.

Ultimately Houdini is an operating system for 3d and becoming
comfortable with VEX and Python within Houdini are mandatory
things. SideFX might like to market Core as a replacement for XSI
but VEX in particular and Python (if you want create portable
assets) are essential ingredients in getting the most out of Houdini.

I came to Houdini with a hackers knowledge of Python scripting and
competent Processing (which I suppose is Java) skills. Never
learnt C++ and I certainly wouldn’t classify myself as a
programmer; and I find I’m comfortable with VEX. Sure I have the
help browser opened permanently on my second browser the check my
function arguments, but I muddle along without pain most of the time.

If Andy’s still reading, I think it would be brilliant if he
updated his Cheat Sheet for these post HScript days. When I was
first learning Houdini it was a huge help. And funnily enough even
though HScript has mostly been discarded, the list of ‘essential’
SOP operators Andy listed back in 2011 are just as relevant in
2017. 

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com

<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com]*On
Behalf Of*Jason S
*Sent:*21 March 2017 18:36
*To:*Official Softimage Users Mailing
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list

<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/xsi_list><softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>>
*Subject:*Re: Random Thoughts about H.

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the feedback!

- Can handle lots of objects or elements and a few things
became very much faster in recent versions (multi-threaded
or openCL)
(SI is still is king for sheer high-poly-count on
fewer objects, which includes *tons* of island transforms)

Have a look at packed primitives. You can chunk your geometry
into sections and get excellent performance there along with
deferred rendering.

For island management, then there are workflows that use the
"name" string primitive attribute to differentiate between
pieces. Some SOPs support this (see clustering and fracturing
for example).

Indeed I'm aware of packed prims, and I already agreed with you
there (was in the "Good!" section :P )

*Elements seem to be either inside OR outside, or object
level elements (where regular parenting happens) are
almost like separate scenes*

Not sure I completely understand your point. I've not had an
issue with referencing data or geometry. You can use the
Object Merge SOP to pull geometry from anywhere though, and
you can use expressions and VEX to pull info from other
objects too (although I'd generally recommend object merging
them for clarity). The convention (as you've probably seen) is
to use a Null SOP called something like "OUT_Geometry" for
example, or to use an Output node, and then reference those
from another object. That has the advantage of being ab

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-22 Thread Jordi Bares


> On 22 Mar 2017, at 02:05, Jason S  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jordi!
> 
> First I wanted to personally thank you for those docs, as they really did go 
> straight to the crux.

Thank you, really appreciate knowing it has been useful. :-)

> Yet for the points mentioned, I would have an easier time agreeing with you 
> if indeed I found "some things to be easier, and others not", whereas beyond 
> what could be associated to "XSI muscle memory",  the sheer quantity or 
> proportions of things that are not not just easier, but considerably much 
> (much!) easier, makes it hard to just overlook and just "go with it", 
> especially when knowing how things can be.

Putting aside the fact we have to move out of Softimage sooner or later 
(hardware, OS, drivers, freelancers, support, etc… will eventually force us out)

Putting aside those areas Sofimage can’t compete because it does not have the 
functionality (heavy duty FX mostly, Terrains, Game integration, etc…)

I would like to focus on those day to day scenarios you feel are not easy in 
Houdini, after all we could submit this input to Side Effects.

Is there any particular scenario you feel strongly Softimage is much more 
comfortable/easy/convenient?

:-)

jb
--
Softimage Mailing List.
To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
"unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

RE: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-22 Thread Jonathan Moore

Andy, I meant nothing more than that last Cheat Sheet was published back in 
2011. I’m sure a bunch of folk would be interested to see what your 2017 Cheat 
Sheet looks like. 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas
Sent: 21 March 2017 23:09
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

Yep! Still reading :) Here’s the link to the cheat sheet as it didn’t come 
through in your email: http://www.andynicholas.com/?p=1344

I think it would be brilliant if he updated his Cheat Sheet for these post 
HScript days.

They're expressions, not HScript, or am I misunderstanding what you’re getting 
at?

Anyway, if you have suggestions about what you’d find useful from an updated 
cheat sheet, then by all means let me know. 

I did start looking at making an update, and made a couple of mind maps 
breaking down the most popular SOPs and expressions into categories. I'll can 
post that when I next get a chance.

A

On 21 Mar 2017, at 19:07, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com 
<mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I think Andy covered off most stuff. The only thing I can reiterate is the 
importance of VEX. I shared a link the other day to the VEX masterclass with 
Jeff Wagner and had positive feedback from other XSI alumni on this list. If 
you haven’t watched it yet, you should. It makes sense of many of SideFX’s 
design decisions.

Ultimately Houdini is an operating system for 3d and becoming comfortable with 
VEX and Python within Houdini are mandatory things. SideFX might like to market 
Core as a replacement for XSI but VEX in particular and Python (if you want 
create portable assets) are essential ingredients in getting the most out of 
Houdini.

I came to Houdini with a hackers knowledge of Python scripting and  competent 
Processing (which I suppose is Java) skills. Never learnt C++ and I certainly 
wouldn’t classify myself as a programmer; and I find I’m comfortable with VEX. 
Sure I have the help browser opened permanently on my second browser the check 
my function arguments, but I muddle along without pain most of the time.

If Andy’s still reading, I think it would be brilliant if he updated his Cheat 
Sheet for these post HScript days. When I was first learning Houdini it was a 
huge help. And funnily enough even though HScript has mostly been discarded, 
the list of ‘essential’ SOP operators Andy listed back in 2011 are just as 
relevant in 2017.  

From:  <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [ 
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> 
mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jason S
Sent: 21 March 2017 18:36
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List.  
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list> 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list< 
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the feedback!

- Can handle lots of objects or elements and a few things became very much 
faster in recent versions (multi-threaded or openCL)
   (SI  is still is king for sheer high-poly-count on fewer objects, which 
includes *tons* of island transforms)

Have a look at packed primitives. You can chunk your geometry into sections and 
get excellent performance there along with deferred rendering.

For island management, then there are workflows that use the "name" string 
primitive attribute to differentiate between pieces. Some SOPs support this 
(see clustering and fracturing for example).

Indeed I'm aware of packed prims, and I already agreed with you there (was in 
the "Good!" section :P )

Elements seem to be either inside OR outside, or object level elements (where 
regular parenting happens) are almost like separate scenes

Not sure I completely understand your point. I've not had an issue with 
referencing data or geometry. You can use the Object Merge SOP to pull geometry 
from anywhere though, and you can use expressions and VEX to pull info from 
other objects too (although I'd generally recommend object merging them for 
clarity). The convention (as you've probably seen) is to use a Null SOP called 
something like "OUT_Geometry" for example, or to use an Output node, and then 
reference those from another object. That has the advantage of being able to 
insert more nodes before the referenced node, so you don't have to update all 
your references.

I know about merge sop, but is it possible to refer to outputs or elements 
located in other object level networks?
(or having object level items used as inputs for multiple other object level 
networks?)

- ICE equivale

Re: Random Thoughts about H.


  
  
"specially when self employed"
  
  ...  or small ... or big shops delivering sequences of images :)
  
  
  On 03/21/17 22:05, Jason S wrote:


  
  Hi Jordi!

First I wanted to personally thank you for those docs, as they
really did go straight to the crux.

Yet for the points mentioned, I would have an easier time
agreeing with you if indeed I found "some things to be easier,
and others not", whereas beyond what could be associated to "XSI
muscle memory",  the sheer quantity or proportions of things
that are not not just easier, but considerably much (much!)
easier, makes it hard to just overlook and just "go with it",
especially when knowing how things can be.


Especially when what I'm looking for already exists.

I know it takes great effort designing things that are both user
friendly AND very flexible 
(both must be at equal priority upon design phases, otherwise
there is great tendency for becoming mostly an either/or thing,
akin to making things both fast AND high quality) 

I'm not either dismissing it altogether, just that after
witnessing how things are, I would focus on things that are more
accessible, and *perhaps* (if so very progressively) adopt other
aspects.

Because I also think that given the circumstances, it is good to
vary disciplines and tools that we use, yet also remain
convinced that "moving-on",  should be as a progressive process,
mostly if not -exclusively- relative to whatever we consider can
work best for a given task.

I wouldn't currently favor XSI for say dynamic beach waves, but
for a great number of things, until there would naturally be a
time when it would simply not be worth it, either because some
things would advance considerably or some things would make it
more difficult to run, 
(either of which can be seen quite ahead of time when testing
new equipment /software)
switching should not be something that is forced, or be from
giving into more or less heavy enticements, or peer pressure, 
(specially when self employed, delivering image sequences) but
that just a personal view.

Anyhoo, 
ciaociao!
-J

On 03/21/17 19:27, Jordi Bares wrote:
  
  

Indeed I never managed to get fully where I wanted... as you can
see VOPs was missing, VEX, DOPs and so many other things but
such were my limitations in terms of knowledge and time.


Nevertheless I will suggest you take Andy’s
  comments and review them, he certainly took the time to put
  some stuff in there that is worth keeping.


My take is, from what I saw is that you were using
  Houdini like me, as if it was Softimage and sooner or later
  you will see (like I did) that it is better to embrace it and
  just move on, 



I hope you enjoy the ride. :-)
jb



  

  
On 21 Mar 2017, at 23:08, Jason S 

  wrote:


  
  
Or alot of equivalence
  mapping was in there (which was great help BTW),
  yet could of course not map the parts that aren't
  mappable 
  (or not easily mappable without getting very
  technical such as for any ice related stuff)
  
  Must have overlooked the Object merge bit thanks.
  
  On 03/21/17 18:41, Nono wrote:


  don't miss the FULL pdf
from Jordy Bares that's all in there
  
On 21 March 2017 at
  23:31, Jason S 
  wrote:
  

  Hi,


Indeed Object Merge can reference
outputs from other nodes
Thanks a bunch! (scraped the internet
for that :) )
-J

  


On 03/21/17 18:22, Nono wrote:

Re: Random Thoughts about H.


  
  
Hi Jordi!
  
  First I wanted to personally thank you for those docs, as they
  really did go straight to the crux.
  
  Yet for the points mentioned, I would have an easier time agreeing
  with you if indeed I found "some things to be easier, and others
  not", whereas beyond what could be associated to "XSI muscle
  memory",  the sheer quantity or proportions of things that are not
  not just easier, but considerably much (much!) easier, makes it
  hard to just overlook and just "go with it", especially when
  knowing how things can be.
  
  
  Especially when what I'm looking for already exists.
  
  I know it takes great effort designing things that are both user
  friendly AND very flexible 
  (both must be at equal priority upon design phases, otherwise
  there is great tendency for becoming mostly an either/or thing,
  akin to making things both fast AND high quality) 
  
  I'm not either dismissing it altogether, just that after
  witnessing how things are, I would focus on things that are more
  accessible, and *perhaps* (if so very progressively) adopt other
  aspects.
  
  Because I also think that given the circumstances, it is good to
  vary disciplines and tools that we use, yet also remain convinced
  that "moving-on",  should be as a progressive process, mostly if
  not -exclusively- relative to whatever we consider can work best
  for a given task.
  
  I wouldn't currently favor XSI for say dynamic beach waves, but
  for a great number of things, until there would naturally be a
  time when it would simply not be worth it, either because some
  things would advance considerably or some things would make it
  more difficult to run, 
  (either of which can be seen quite ahead of time when testing new
  equipment /software)
  switching should not be something that is forced, or be from
  giving into more or less heavy enticements, or peer pressure, 
  (specially when self employed, delivering image sequences) but
  that just a personal view.
  
  Anyhoo, 
  ciaociao!
  -J
  
  On 03/21/17 19:27, Jordi Bares wrote:


  
  Indeed I never managed to get fully where I wanted... as you can
  see VOPs was missing, VEX, DOPs and so many other things but such
  were my limitations in terms of knowledge and time.
  
  
  Nevertheless I will suggest you take Andy’s comments
and review them, he certainly took the time to put some stuff in
there that is worth keeping.
  
  
  My take is, from what I saw is that you were using
Houdini like me, as if it was Softimage and sooner or later you
will see (like I did) that it is better to embrace it and just
move on, 
  
  
  
  I hope you enjoy the ride. :-)
  jb
  
  
  

  

  On 21 Mar 2017, at 23:08, Jason S 
wrote:
  
  


  Or alot of equivalence
mapping was in there (which was great help BTW),
yet could of course not map the parts that aren't
mappable 
(or not easily mappable without getting very
technical such as for any ice related stuff)

Must have overlooked the Object merge bit thanks.

On 03/21/17 18:41, Nono wrote:
  
  
don't miss the FULL pdf from
  Jordy Bares that's all in there

  On 21 March 2017 at
23:31, Jason S 
wrote:

  
Hi,
  
  Indeed Object Merge can reference outputs
  from other nodes
  Thanks a bunch! (scraped the internet for
  that :) )
  -J
  

  
  
  On 03/21/17 18:22, Nono wrote:

  


  

  

  On 21
March 2017 at 19:36, Jason S

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-21 Thread Andy Nicholas

> many things are easier, others are not.


Haha! Those are very true words indeed! :)

Have to say though that the recent updates to the modelling workflow have 
really made a huge difference. I'm almost starting to feel as comfortable in 
Houdini as I did in Soft. The Polyfill SOP is probably my favourite at the 
moment :)


> On 21 Mar 2017, at 23:27, Jordi Bares  wrote:
> 
> Indeed I never managed to get fully where I wanted... as you can see VOPs was 
> missing, VEX, DOPs and so many other things but such were my limitations in 
> terms of knowledge and time.
> 
> Nevertheless I will suggest you take Andy’s comments and review them, he 
> certainly took the time to put some stuff in there that is worth keeping.
> 
> My take is, from what I saw is that you were using Houdini like me, as if it 
> was Softimage and sooner or later you will see (like I did) that it is better 
> to embrace it and just move on, many things are easier, others are not.
> 
> I hope you enjoy the ride. :-)
> jb
> 
> 
>> On 21 Mar 2017, at 23:08, Jason S  wrote:
>> 
>> Or alot of equivalence mapping was in there (which was great help BTW),
>> yet could of course not map the parts that aren't mappable 
>> (or not easily mappable without getting very technical such as for any ice 
>> related stuff)
>> 
>> Must have overlooked the Object merge bit thanks.
>> 
>>> On 03/21/17 18:41, Nono wrote:
>>> don't miss the FULL pdf from Jordy Bares that's all in there
>>> 
>>> On 21 March 2017 at 23:31, Jason S  wrote:
 Hi, 
 Indeed Object Merge can reference outputs from other nodes
 Thanks a bunch! (scraped the internet for that :) )
 -J
 
 
 
 On 03/21/17 18:22, Nono wrote:
> 
> On 21 March 2017 at 19:36, Jason S  wrote:
>> I know about merge sop, but is it possible to refer to outputs or 
>> elements located in other object level networks?
>> (or having object level items used as inputs for multiple other object 
>> level networks?)
> 
> Hi,
> You don't read it correctly, Andy spokes about "Object Merge" not 
> "Merge".
> On Houdini "Object merge" is in most case the most important node. You 
> can for example mimic softimage overrides with it ;-)
> 
> Cheers 
> 
> 
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
 
 
 --
 Softimage Mailing List.
 To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com 
 with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Softimage Mailing List.
>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
>>> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>> 
>> --
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
>> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
> 
> --
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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-21 Thread Jordi Bares

Indeed I never managed to get fully where I wanted... as you can see VOPs was 
missing, VEX, DOPs and so many other things but such were my limitations in 
terms of knowledge and time.

Nevertheless I will suggest you take Andy’s comments and review them, he 
certainly took the time to put some stuff in there that is worth keeping.

My take is, from what I saw is that you were using Houdini like me, as if it 
was Softimage and sooner or later you will see (like I did) that it is better 
to embrace it and just move on, many things are easier, others are not.

I hope you enjoy the ride. :-)
jb


> On 21 Mar 2017, at 23:08, Jason S  wrote:
> 
> Or alot of equivalence mapping was in there (which was great help BTW),
> yet could of course not map the parts that aren't mappable 
> (or not easily mappable without getting very technical such as for any ice 
> related stuff)
> 
> Must have overlooked the Object merge bit thanks.
> 
> On 03/21/17 18:41, Nono wrote:
>> don't miss the FULL pdf from Jordy Bares that's all in there
>> 
>> On 21 March 2017 at 23:31, Jason S > > wrote:
>> Hi, 
>> Indeed Object Merge can reference outputs from other nodes
>> Thanks a bunch! (scraped the internet for that :) )
>> -J
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 03/21/17 18:22, Nono wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 21 March 2017 at 19:36, Jason S >> > wrote:
>>> I know about merge sop, but is it possible to refer to outputs or elements 
>>> located in other object level networks?
>>> (or having object level items used as inputs for multiple other object 
>>> level networks?)
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> You don't read it correctly, Andy spokes about "Object Merge" not "Merge".
>>> On Houdini "Object merge" is in most case the most important node. You can 
>>> for example mimic softimage overrides with it ;-)
>>> 
>>> Cheers 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Softimage Mailing List.
>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>>>  with "unsubscribe" in the 
>>> subject, and reply to confirm.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>>  with "unsubscribe" in the 
>> subject, and reply to confirm.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>>  with "unsubscribe" in the 
>> subject, and reply to confirm.
> 
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

Or alot of equivalence mapping was in
there (which was great help BTW),
yet could of course not map the parts that aren't mappable
(or not easily mappable without getting very technical such as for
any ice related stuff)

Must have overlooked the Object merge bit thanks.

On 03/21/17 18:41, Nono wrote:

don't miss the FULL pdf from Jordy Bares that's all
in there

On 21 March 2017 at 23:31, Jason S
wrote:

Hi,
Indeed Object Merge can reference outputs from other
nodes
Thanks a bunch! (scraped the internet for that :) )
-J

On 03/21/17 18:22, Nono wrote:

On 21 March 2017 at
19:36, Jason S
wrote:
I know about merge sop,
but is it possible to refer to outputs or
elements located in other object level
networks?
(or having object level items used as
inputs for multiple other object level
networks?)

Hi,
You don't read it
correctly, Andy spokes about "Object Merge" not
"Merge".
On Houdini "Object merge"
is in most case the most important node. You can
for example mimic softimage overrides with it
;-)

Cheers

--
Softimage Mailing List.
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--
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with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-21 Thread Andy Nicholas

Yep! Still reading :) Here’s the link to the cheat sheet as it didn’t come 
through in your email: http://www.andynicholas.com/?p=1344

> I think it would be brilliant if he updated his Cheat Sheet for these post 
> HScript days.


They're expressions, not HScript, or am I misunderstanding what you’re getting 
at?

Anyway, if you have suggestions about what you’d find useful from an updated 
cheat sheet, then by all means let me know. 

I did start looking at making an update, and made a couple of mind maps 
breaking down the most popular SOPs and expressions into categories. I'll can 
post that when I next get a chance.

A



> On 21 Mar 2017, at 19:07, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I think Andy covered off most stuff. The only thing I can reiterate is the 
> importance of VEX. I shared a link the other day to the VEX masterclass with 
> Jeff Wagner and had positive feedback from other XSI alumni on this list. If 
> you haven’t watched it yet, you should. It makes sense of many of SideFX’s 
> design decisions.
>  
> Ultimately Houdini is an operating system for 3d and becoming comfortable 
> with VEX and Python within Houdini are mandatory things. SideFX might like to 
> market Core as a replacement for XSI but VEX in particular and Python (if you 
> want create portable assets) are essential ingredients in getting the most 
> out of Houdini.
>  
> I came to Houdini with a hackers knowledge of Python scripting and  competent 
> Processing (which I suppose is Java) skills. Never learnt C++ and I certainly 
> wouldn’t classify myself as a programmer; and I find I’m comfortable with 
> VEX. Sure I have the help browser opened permanently on my second browser the 
> check my function arguments, but I muddle along without pain most of the time.
>  
> If Andy’s still reading, I think it would be brilliant if he updated his 
> Cheat Sheet for these post HScript days. When I was first learning Houdini it 
> was a huge help. And funnily enough even though HScript has mostly been 
> discarded, the list of ‘essential’ SOP operators Andy listed back in 2011 are 
> just as relevant in 2017.   <>
>  
>  
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> 
> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] On Behalf Of Jason S
> Sent: 21 March 2017 18:36
> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list><softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>  <mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>>
> Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>  
> 
> Hi Andy,
> 
> Thanks for the feedback!
> 
>>> - Can handle lots of objects or elements and a few things became very much 
>>> faster in recent versions (multi-threaded or openCL)
>>>(SI  is still is king for sheer high-poly-count on fewer objects, which 
>>> includes *tons* of island transforms)
>> 
>> Have a look at packed primitives. You can chunk your geometry into sections 
>> and get excellent performance there along with deferred rendering.
>> 
>> For island management, then there are workflows that use the "name" string 
>> primitive attribute to differentiate between pieces. Some SOPs support this 
>> (see clustering and fracturing for example).
>> 
> 
> Indeed I'm aware of packed prims, and I already agreed with you there (was in 
> the "Good!" section :P )
> 
> 
>>> Elements seem to be either inside OR outside, or object level elements 
>>> (where regular parenting happens) are almost like separate scenes
>> 
>> Not sure I completely understand your point. I've not had an issue with 
>> referencing data or geometry. You can use the Object Merge SOP to pull 
>> geometry from anywhere though, and you can use expressions and VEX to pull 
>> info from other objects too (although I'd generally recommend object merging 
>> them for clarity). The convention (as you've probably seen) is to use a Null 
>> SOP called something like "OUT_Geometry" for example, or to use an Output 
>> node, and then reference those from another object. That has the advantage 
>> of being able to insert more nodes before the referenced node, so you don't 
>> have to update all your references.
>> 
> 
> I know about merge sop, but is it possible to refer to outputs or elements 
> located in other object level networks?
> (or having object level items used as inputs for multiple other object level 
> networks?)
> 
> 
>>> - ICE equivalence  (personally my biggest gripe)
>&g

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-21 Thread Nono

don't miss the FULL pdf from Jordy Bares that's all in there

On 21 March 2017 at 23:31, Jason S  wrote:

> Hi,
> Indeed Object Merge can reference outputs from other nodes
> Thanks a bunch! (scraped the internet for that :) )
> -J
>
>
>
> On 03/21/17 18:22, Nono wrote:
>
>
> On 21 March 2017 at 19:36, Jason S  wrote:
>
>> I know about merge sop, but is it possible to refer to outputs or
>> elements located in other object level networks?
>> (or having object level items used as inputs for multiple other object
>> level networks?)
>
>
> Hi,
> You don't read it correctly, Andy spokes about "Object Merge" not "Merge".
> On Houdini "Object merge" is in most case the most important node. You can
> for example mimic softimage overrides with it ;-)
>
> Cheers
>
>
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>
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Re: Random Thoughts about H.


  
  
Hi, 
  Indeed Object Merge can reference outputs from other nodes
  Thanks a bunch! (scraped the internet for that :) )
  -J
  
  
  On 03/21/17 18:22, Nono wrote:


  

  On 21 March 2017 at 19:36, Jason S 
wrote:
I know about merge sop, but is it
possible to refer to outputs or elements located in
other object level networks?
(or having object level items used as inputs for
multiple other object level networks?)
  
  
  Hi,
You don't read it correctly, Andy
  spokes about "Object Merge" not "Merge".
On Houdini "Object merge" is in most
  case the most important node. You can for example mimic
  softimage overrides with it ;-)


Cheers 
  
  
  
  
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To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.


  

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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-21 Thread Nono

On 21 March 2017 at 19:36, Jason S  wrote:

> I know about merge sop, but is it possible to refer to outputs or elements
> located in other object level networks?
> (or having object level items used as inputs for multiple other object
> level networks?)

Hi,
You don't read it correctly, Andy spokes about "Object Merge" not "Merge".
On Houdini "Object merge" is in most case the most important node. You can
for example mimic softimage overrides with it ;-)

Cheers
--
Softimage Mailing List.
To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-21 Thread Eugene Flormata

 tried watching the VEX masterclass
it was way over my head, haha
back to the drawing board


On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 12:07 PM, Jonathan Moore 
wrote:

> I think Andy covered off most stuff. The only thing I can reiterate is the
> importance of VEX. I shared a link the other day to the VEX masterclass
> with Jeff Wagner and had positive feedback from other XSI alumni on this
> list. If you haven’t watched it yet, you should. It makes sense of many of
> SideFX’s design decisions.
>
>
>
> Ultimately Houdini is an operating system for 3d and becoming comfortable
> with VEX and Python within Houdini are mandatory things. SideFX might like
> to market Core as a replacement for XSI but VEX in particular and Python
> (if you want create portable assets) are essential ingredients in getting
> the most out of Houdini.
>
>
>
> I came to Houdini with a hackers knowledge of Python scripting and
>  competent Processing (which I suppose is Java) skills. Never learnt C++
> and I certainly wouldn’t classify myself as a programmer; and I find I’m
> comfortable with VEX. Sure I have the help browser opened permanently on my
> second browser the check my function arguments, but I muddle along without
> pain most of the time.
>
>
>
> If Andy’s still reading, I think it would be brilliant if he updated his
> Cheat Sheet for these post HScript days. When I was first learning Houdini
> it was a huge help. And funnily enough even though HScript has mostly been
> discarded, the list of ‘essential’ SOP operators Andy listed back in 2011
> are just as relevant in 2017.  
>
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RE: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-21 Thread Jonathan Moore

I think Andy covered off most stuff. The only thing I can reiterate is the 
importance of VEX. I shared a link the other day to the VEX masterclass with 
Jeff Wagner and had positive feedback from other XSI alumni on this list. If 
you haven’t watched it yet, you should. It makes sense of many of SideFX’s 
design decisions.

 

Ultimately Houdini is an operating system for 3d and becoming comfortable with 
VEX and Python within Houdini are mandatory things. SideFX might like to market 
Core as a replacement for XSI but VEX in particular and Python (if you want 
create portable assets) are essential ingredients in getting the most out of 
Houdini.

 

I came to Houdini with a hackers knowledge of Python scripting and  competent 
Processing (which I suppose is Java) skills. Never learnt C++ and I certainly 
wouldn’t classify myself as a programmer; and I find I’m comfortable with VEX. 
Sure I have the help browser opened permanently on my second browser the check 
my function arguments, but I muddle along without pain most of the time.

 

If Andy’s still reading, I think it would be brilliant if he updated his Cheat 
Sheet for these post HScript days. When I was first learning Houdini it was a 
huge help. And funnily enough even though HScript has mostly been discarded, 
the list of ‘essential’ SOP operators Andy listed back in 2011 are just as 
relevant in 2017.  

 

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jason S
Sent: 21 March 2017 18:36
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.

 


Hi Andy,

Thanks for the feedback!

- Can handle lots of objects or elements and a few things became very much 
faster in recent versions (multi-threaded or openCL)
   (SI  is still is king for sheer high-poly-count on fewer objects, which 
includes *tons* of island transforms)


Have a look at packed primitives. You can chunk your geometry into sections and 
get excellent performance there along with deferred rendering.

For island management, then there are workflows that use the "name" string 
primitive attribute to differentiate between pieces. Some SOPs support this 
(see clustering and fracturing for example).


Indeed I'm aware of packed prims, and I already agreed with you there (was in 
the "Good!" section :P )




Elements seem to be either inside OR outside, or object level elements (where 
regular parenting happens) are almost like separate scenes


Not sure I completely understand your point. I've not had an issue with 
referencing data or geometry. You can use the Object Merge SOP to pull geometry 
from anywhere though, and you can use expressions and VEX to pull info from 
other objects too (although I'd generally recommend object merging them for 
clarity). The convention (as you've probably seen) is to use a Null SOP called 
something like "OUT_Geometry" for example, or to use an Output node, and then 
reference those from another object. That has the advantage of being able to 
insert more nodes before the referenced node, so you don't have to update all 
your references.


I know about merge sop, but is it possible to refer to outputs or elements 
located in other object level networks?
(or having object level items used as inputs for multiple other object level 
networks?)




- ICE equivalence  (personally my biggest gripe)
Wished for one thing, that Vop nets allowed for subnetworks with custom port 
names, 


This is possible, but you need to create a digital asset to do it. Kinda 
painful as a workflow, but it is there.




If that's  at-all realistic, as it would probably involve very systemic 
changes, like how/when compilation happens (?)
(to allow time dependancy  inside vops, but I don't know)


You can have time dependancy inside VOPs, you just need to use the Time input 
from global variables, rather than use $FF inside expressions.

Thanks, also I think promoting parameters allows for time dependency? 
But I was referring to time dependency as what could prevent entire processes 
to be self contained inside a  single VOP net.
(or one of the things)




everything  (such as different settings  or where to adjust different things) 
is all over the place

Yes, it can be, which is why it's crucial to try to be as organised as possible 
and work in a consistent way. If there's an occasion you can't be consistent, 
then put down a post-it note in your network to document it for when you or 
someone else comes back to the scene.




  --- expressions ::
 even if often very simple, driving values with more elaborate 
procedures, 
 requires equally more elaborate expressions with often somewhat 
cryptic and sensitive syntax 
 with single or two letter functions that can be easy to remember for 
the more common ones like 'F' or 'P',
 b

Re: Random Thoughts about H.


  
  

  Hi Andy,

Thanks for the feedback!
  


  
  
- Can handle lots of objects or
  elements and a few things became very much faster in recent
  versions (multi-threaded or openCL)
     (SI  is still is king for sheer high-poly-count on fewer
  objects, which includes *tons* of island transforms)

  
  
  Have a look at packed primitives. You can chunk your geometry into
  sections and get excellent performance there along with deferred
  rendering.
  
  For island management, then there are workflows that use the
  "name" string primitive attribute to differentiate between pieces.
  Some SOPs support this (see clustering and fracturing for
  example).
  


  Indeed I'm aware of packed prims, and I already agreed with you
  there (was in the "Good!" section :P )


  
 Elements seem to be either
inside OR outside, or object level elements (where regular
parenting happens) are almost like separate scenes

  
  
  Not sure I completely understand your point. I've not had an issue
  with referencing data or geometry. You can use the Object Merge
  SOP to pull geometry from anywhere though, and you can use
  expressions and VEX to pull info from other objects too (although
  I'd generally recommend object merging them for clarity). The
  convention (as you've probably seen) is to use a Null SOP called
  something like "OUT_Geometry" for example, or to use an Output
  node, and then reference those from another object. That has the
  advantage of being able to insert more nodes before the referenced
  node, so you don't have to update all your references.
  


  I know about merge sop, but is it possible to refer to outputs or
  elements located in other object level networks?
  (or having object level items used as inputs for multiple other
  object level networks?)


  
 - ICE equivalence 
  (personally my biggest gripe)
  Wished for one thing, that Vop nets allowed for subnetworks
  with custom port names, 

  
  
  This is possible, but you need to create a digital asset to do it.
  Kinda painful as a workflow, but it is there.
  
  
If that's  at-all realistic, as it
  would probably involve very systemic changes, like how/when
  compilation happens (?)
  (to allow time dependancy  inside vops, but I don't know)
  
  
  You can have time dependancy inside VOPs, you just need to use the
  Time input from global variables, rather than use $FF inside
  expressions.
  

Thanks, also I think promoting parameters
  allows for time dependency? 
  But I was referring to time dependency as what could prevent
  entire processes to be self contained inside a  single VOP net.
  (or one of the things)


  
everything  (such as different
  settings  or where to adjust different things) is all over the
  place

  
  Yes, it can be, which is why it's crucial to try to be as
  organised as possible and work in a consistent way. If there's an
  occasion you can't be consistent, then put down a post-it note in
  your network to document it for when you or someone else comes
  back to the scene.
  
  
   --- expressions ::
   even if often very simple, driving values with more
  elaborate procedures, 
   requires equally more elaborate expressions with
  often somewhat cryptic and sensitive syntax 
   with single or two letter functions that can be easy
  to remember for the more common ones like 'F' or 'P',
       but otherwise involves having the doc open at all
  times.

  
  
  You get used to it quickly, but you'll probably find you move more
  towards Vex, which will make most expressions redundant.


Perhaps I could get used to it, like I could
  also get use to C++, but the point was that it's not what I would
  want to deal with under tight deadlines (or where I would like to
  spend most of my time)
  
  I've done my fair share of scripting, even some quite elaborate
  ones, but always commenting the heck out everything and having
  extra descriptive variable names to not have to decipher myself
  even the next day, but I couldn't say I could decipher half the
  scripts I come across, and such things remain quite difficult for
  me  (as for many artists).


  
      To simply -- say
  randomizing something with range that changes in time, is
  comparatively quite something,

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

2017-03-21 Thread Andy Nicholas


Hi Jason,
That's a good list. My thoughts and suggestions on your issues below:

**- Can handle lots of objects or elements and a few things became 
very much faster in recent versions (multi-threaded or openCL)
   (SI  is still is king for sheer high-poly-count on fewer objects, 
which includes *tons* of island transforms)


Have a look at packed primitives. You can chunk your geometry into 
sections and get excellent performance there along with deferred rendering.


For island management, then there are workflows that use the "name" 
string primitive attribute to differentiate between pieces. Some SOPs 
support this (see clustering and fracturing for example).



*Passes*
- there's probably 3 or more ways to set-up 'passes', and all of them 
are comparatively excruciating.


Yep. That's a fair comment. Most people have their own preferred method. 
It's generally recommend staying away from Takes as a technique to 
create passes though, apart from when absolutely necessary.



*- Help!*
- Can be Really bad for browsing reference sections
- Alphabetically sorted  flat list of all nodes, all 
expression functions or all Vex functions ...
  For example ::   the   'Inflate', 'Instance', 'IsoOffset'  
nodes, all concern very different things.


Yes, the docs really need a lot of work still IMHO and have done for a 
while. The documentation for DOPs in particular frequently make me want 
to scream at the lack of clarity to what they do and how they're 
supposed to be used. It is majorly lacking in context and clear examples.


   - Perhaps there is something up with my setup, but help views 
seemed very buggy
 and (sometimes not always) very slow especially when always 
having it open.


Yes, definitely slow. Would highly recommend opening it in an external 
browser, and making a bookmark for the local documentation. You'll need 
to launch Houdini's help first before the external browser so that it 
starts the http service. The port number will vary for each Houdini 
version, but the local URL will be something like 
http://127.0.0.1:48626/_index


The help does crash regularly (SideFX know about this, and are working 
on a fix), so worth bookmarking the online documentation too. 
http://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini/




- *Scene item Tree list *(outliner/Explorer) seems somewhat basic,
Network view is great, but tree lists can be much more optimal for 
overviewing hierarchies
and unless I missed a preference(?) H tree view is a flat list of 
all object level items without parenting hierarchy representation.


There are various tree views that can appear for selecting objects, etc. 
but the main tree view shows all the hierarchy of operators at every 
level. It doesn't show object parenting hierarchies (unless you nest 
them in subnet works that is). There's no view to show object 
hierarchies (unless I've missed something).



*- Inconsistent highlighting and/or viewport element display*


Yep, it can get quite confusing, and I think Houdini gets quite confused 
too about the UI state sometimes. Couple of things to remember: 1) if in 
doubt hit Escape a few times to get back to a known state. 2) Pressing 
and holding space will get you into Viewport mode (a bit like holding S 
down in Softimage). So, for example: pressing and holding Space then 
pressing "5" will always move you to UV view, regardless of what active 
tool you have. Same goes for pressing Space + "f", "g", or "h".



*Elements seem to be either inside OR outside, or object level 
elements (where regular parenting happens) are almost like separate 
scenes*


Not sure I completely understand your point. I've not had an issue with 
referencing data or geometry. You can use the Object Merge SOP to pull 
geometry from anywhere though, and you can use expressions and VEX to 
pull info from other objects too (although I'd generally recommend 
object merging them for clarity). The convention (as you've probably 
seen) is to use a Null SOP called something like "OUT_Geometry" for 
example, or to use an Output node, and then reference those from another 
object. That has the advantage of being able to insert more nodes before 
the referenced node, so you don't have to update all your references.




*Performance*


Yep, cloth is frustratingly slow compared to Syflex, I'm no expert, but 
I'd say that it's more flexible in terms of what you can do with it in 
Houdini.



*- ICE**equivalence* (personally my biggest gripe)
Wished for one thing, that Vop nets allowed for subnetworks with 
custom port names,


This is possible, but you need to create a digital asset to do it. Kinda 
painful as a workflow, but it is there.


If that's  at-all realistic, as it would probably involve very 
systemic changes, like how/when compilation happens (?)

(to allow time dependancy  inside vops, but I don't know)


You can have time dependancy inside VOPs, you just need to use the Time 
input from global variables, rather than use $FF inside

Random Thoughts about H.