Re: CVS commit: src/share/misc
On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 06:09:37PM +0900, Masao Uebayashi wrote: > Are you removing any inappropriate/hostile words in the tree (if exists)? If there's stuff of the same sort as the acronyms that got pruned, perhaps so. Don't know of any, but that doesn't mean it's not there. (routine bad language, not so much; for that it's better to fix the code to not need swearing at) -- David A. Holland dholl...@netbsd.org
Re: CVS commit: src/share/misc
Am 25.04.15 um 18:07 schrieb Alan Barrett: > On Sat, 25 Apr 2015, rod...@netbsd.org wrote: >> I'm responding to the recent posts ITT, because it seems there's some >> misunderstanding: > > I had no idea what ITT meant, until I looked it up. (ITT = "in this > thread", apparently). > >> 1) What has been committed is no more "offensive" than the existing >> material in wtf and fortune. Please, review fortune's data files if >> any doubts exist; >> >> 2) wtf and fortune have existed in source since $TIME without any uproar; >> >> 3) There aren't any rules documenting appending entries to either; >> >> 4) We don't tend to make up rules as we go along committing; > > We have a rule or at least a convention that things that are likely to > be controversial should be discussed first. If you don't realise that > something is controversial, and commit without discussion, then the > appropriate response is to engage in discussion as soon as you learn > that the issue was controversial. Continuing without discussion is not > appropriate. > > I think that NetBSD's acronyms file should be for acronyms that ordinary > people are likely to encounter in ordinary situations; not for acronyms > used in some small subculture. As if NetBSD is not some small subculture,,, > > --apb (Alan Barrett)
Re: CVS commit: src/share/misc
Am 25.04.15 um 11:24 schrieb David Holland: > On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 12:20:17AM +, Blue Rats wrote: > > Module Name: src > > Committed By: rodent > > Date: Fri Apr 24 00:20:17 UTC 2015 > > > > Modified Files: > >src/share/misc: acronyms > > > > Log Message: > > +BB = baby - with this commit, we document, rather than police, yet another > > acronym/abbreviation which is part of Internet culture. Those who feel > > otherwise are welcome to turn this over to core@, who resolve disputes > > among developers. > > If you persist in this attitude, you're likely to generate a consensus > within this part of the "Internet culture" to document your sudden > lack of a commit bit. David, I think this a uneeded threat. rodent's commit might not be appropriate in some communities, but they do not violate the contract a developer has with TNF. I personally find these acronyms neither very sizzling nor very insulting. They just exist as they are and listing them I think is fine. We are solely the collectors of acronyms, including them does not mean NetBSD endorses the use of them, I think. There are probably more offensive (but good) jokes in fortune -o...
Re: CVS commit: src/distrib/atari/floppies/install
(note I don't even know how long atari build has been broken) This problem often rises when build failure is caused by MI changes without particular annoucements. If someone[tm] can update our autobuild script, it would be great.. - less frequent (weekly or semi-monthly?) builds for tierII ports - proper notification to MD port list on autobuild failure, as i386 does to current-users --- Izumi Tsutsui
Re: CVS commit: src/distrib/atari/floppies/install
Joerg Sonnenberger writes: > On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 10:07:32AM -0400, Greg Troxel wrote: >> A broken build is evidence that the prior commits were not tested, >> and thus need fixing. Objecting to fixing the build without testing >> should be a far lower priority than objecting to commits that break >> the build. > The problem here is that the original commit that triggered the > overflow can and often enough is perfectly reasonable on all platforms > without artifically low size constraints. What is needed to get at > least basic regression testing done in an emulator? Fair enough and a good point about emulator testing being really helpful. pgpGjBHUeCXLj.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: CVS commit: src/distrib/atari/floppies/install
On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 10:07:32AM -0400, Greg Troxel wrote: > > Izumi Tsutsui writes: > > > joerg@ wrote: > > > >> > "Please don't commit untested and broken fix." > >> > "Please file a PR instead if you can't test it." > >> > >> I agree with Christos that leaving the build broken is worse. The > >> alternative band aids are much more involved, too. That shouldn't stop > >> the second point from that list. > > > > If you claim leaving the build broken is worse than commiting untested code, > > you should ask to update our commit guideline first: > > > > http://www.netbsd.org/developers/commit-guidelines.html > > Perhaps we should. The problems are: > > A broken build is evidence that the prior commits were not tested, and > thus need fixing. Objecting to fixing the build without testing > should be a far lower priority than objecting to commits that break > the build. The problem here is that the original commit that triggered the overflow can and often enough is perfectly reasonable on all platforms without artifically low size constraints. What is needed to get at least basic regression testing done in an emulator? Joerg
Re: CVS commit: src/distrib/atari/floppies/install
joerg@ wrote: > > > > "Please don't commit untested and broken fix." > > > > "Please file a PR instead if you can't test it." > > > > > > I agree with Christos that leaving the build broken is worse. The > > > alternative band aids are much more involved, too. That shouldn't stop > > > the second point from that list. > > > > If you claim leaving the build broken is worse than commiting untested code, > > you should ask to update our commit guideline first: > > Bumping the size of a floppy is definitely the smaller evil. Can you > please try to be reasonable? I'm not sure what's your definition of "definitely", but bumping the size of a floppy is fatal on atari, as you can see in the first message of this thread. Our commit guideline is quite reasonable: >> ask a developer who is familiar with that part of the system for >> review. --- Izumi Tsutsui
Re: CVS commit: src/distrib/atari/floppies/install
Izumi Tsutsui writes: > joerg@ wrote: > >> > "Please don't commit untested and broken fix." >> > "Please file a PR instead if you can't test it." >> >> I agree with Christos that leaving the build broken is worse. The >> alternative band aids are much more involved, too. That shouldn't stop >> the second point from that list. > > If you claim leaving the build broken is worse than commiting untested code, > you should ask to update our commit guideline first: > > http://www.netbsd.org/developers/commit-guidelines.html Perhaps we should. The problems are: A broken build is evidence that the prior commits were not tested, and thus need fixing. Objecting to fixing the build without testing should be a far lower priority than objecting to commits that break the build. A broken build, or a build that succeeds but fails to work is a serious problem because it prevents bisecting to find bugs. I've seen this in current/i386 pretty often, less so recently. During a ~week that the build was broken many commits happened, and some of those were trouble, and it was a mess to sort out. So arguably no commits should be allowed at all during a time when the build is broken or there are sudden significant new test failures, other than fixing the build. pgpPVycMH2F2d.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: CVS commit: src/distrib/atari/floppies/install
On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 10:39:00PM +0900, Izumi Tsutsui wrote: > Please don't assume all tier II users check auto-build reports > even every month. I would expect portmaster at least to check much more often than once a month or at least request notification. Joerg
Re: CVS commit: src/distrib/atari/floppies/install
On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 10:54:41PM +0900, Izumi Tsutsui wrote: > joerg@ wrote: > > > > "Please don't commit untested and broken fix." > > > "Please file a PR instead if you can't test it." > > > > I agree with Christos that leaving the build broken is worse. The > > alternative band aids are much more involved, too. That shouldn't stop > > the second point from that list. > > If you claim leaving the build broken is worse than commiting untested code, > you should ask to update our commit guideline first: Bumping the size of a floppy is definitely the smaller evil. Can you please try to be reasonable? Joerg
Re: CVS commit: src/distrib/atari/floppies/install
joerg@ wrote: > > "Please don't commit untested and broken fix." > > "Please file a PR instead if you can't test it." > > I agree with Christos that leaving the build broken is worse. The > alternative band aids are much more involved, too. That shouldn't stop > the second point from that list. If you claim leaving the build broken is worse than commiting untested code, you should ask to update our commit guideline first: http://www.netbsd.org/developers/commit-guidelines.html >> 1. Commit only code you are familiar with. >> If you are not sure if the code you plan to commit is acceptable >> (e. g. when taking code that was submitted with a problem report), >> ask a developer who is familiar with that part of the system for >> review. : >> 5. Commit only code that you have tested. >> Make sure that your code actually works as expected, by compiling >> and running the code that is affected by your change with your >> system's tools. --- Izumi Tsutsui
Re: CVS commit: src/distrib/atari/floppies/install
On Apr 26, 10:39pm, tsut...@ceres.dti.ne.jp (Izumi Tsutsui) wrote: -- Subject: Re: CVS commit: src/distrib/atari/floppies/install | christos@ wrote: | | > | "Please don't commit untested and broken fix." | > | "Please file a PR instead if you can't test it." | > | > I can't test, and it is broken already. For months... | > Having the build broken is bad, because it means that any changes | > after the break are not even compile-tested. | | Please file a PR if you notice any problems. | | I have tested it netbsd-7, but it's unlikey to test -current periodically | before release. | | > Again, I was just saying that we should consider moving ports | > that people don't seem care about to tier III. | | Please file a PR for poor tier II users. | Please don't assume all tier II users check auto-build reports | even every month. I will do that :-) It is easier than fixing the problem... christos
Re: CVS commit: src/distrib/atari/floppies/install
christos@ wrote: > | "Please don't commit untested and broken fix." > | "Please file a PR instead if you can't test it." > > I can't test, and it is broken already. For months... > Having the build broken is bad, because it means that any changes > after the break are not even compile-tested. Please file a PR if you notice any problems. I have tested it netbsd-7, but it's unlikey to test -current periodically before release. > Again, I was just saying that we should consider moving ports > that people don't seem care about to tier III. Please file a PR for poor tier II users. Please don't assume all tier II users check auto-build reports even every month. --- Izumi Tsutsui
Re: CVS commit: src/distrib/atari/floppies/install
On Apr 26, 11:52am, tsut...@ceres.dti.ne.jp (Izumi Tsutsui) wrote: -- Subject: Re: CVS commit: src/distrib/atari/floppies/install | You always miss the point. You take everything so seriously; it is not the end of the world: it did not work before the change and it does not work now (well it probably works now, I don't know). | "Please don't commit untested and broken fix." | "Please file a PR instead if you can't test it." I can't test, and it is broken already. For months... Having the build broken is bad, because it means that any changes after the break are not even compile-tested. | What I wrote was: | | >> I agree you can blame port masters if they leave their ports broken | >> more than *weeks*. | : | >> If you claim port-masters must check buildable state *everyday* | >> against all MI changes without review or announcement, I'll resign | >> from all maintainership. | | Claiming "tier III since nobody seems to care" without PR is quite unfair. Again, I was just saying that we should consider moving ports that people don't seem care about to tier III. christos
Re: CVS commit: src/distrib/atari/floppies/install
On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 11:52:08AM +0900, Izumi Tsutsui wrote: > christos@ wrote: > > > | I just think "buildability fix" won't help users, > > | as we discussed in the past. > > | http://mail-index.netbsd.org/source-changes-d/2012/08/01/msg005113.html > > > > Well, it does not help being broken for months... I say tier III, since > > nobody seems to care. Anyway, fixed for now. > > You always miss the point. > > "Please don't commit untested and broken fix." > "Please file a PR instead if you can't test it." I agree with Christos that leaving the build broken is worse. The alternative band aids are much more involved, too. That shouldn't stop the second point from that list. Joerg
Re: CVS commit: src/share/misc
On 22 April 2015 7:17:37 PM GMT+07:00, Greg Troxel wrote:
>
>"S.P.Zeidler" writes:
>
>> Thus wrote Paul Goyette (p...@vps1.whooppee.com):
>>
>>> At the very les, if we're going to have these acronyms, they should
>be
>>> listed in a separate file which is not searched by default. Similar
>to what
>>> is done with fortune(6).
>>
>> But that might not serve to indicate to these unwanted elements
>("women")
>> that they are not welcome here and might face violence if they
>obtrude anyway.
>
>Indeed. This kind of content has no place in NetBSD or any other
>open-source project. It should just be removed.
Yes please, that seems like it represents a pretty horrible surprise to come
across in the base system for all female users - regardless of being in the
default file or a special "criminal attitudes" file. Why do it?
Re: CVS commit: src/share/misc
Are you removing any inappropriate/hostile words in the tree (if exists)?
