Re: [SAtalk] forged habeus mark
I think I received my first Habeas SWE (tm) email today and what do you know, it's V|@gra spam. X-Habeas-SWE-1: winter into spring X-Habeas-SWE-2: brightly anticipated X-Habeas-SWE-3: like Habeas SWE (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this X-Habeas-SWE-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas X-Habeas-SWE-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant X-Habeas-SWE-8: Message (HCM) and not spam. Please report use of this X-Habeas-SWE-9: mark in spam to http://www.habeas.com/report/. ... X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on hevelius.linuxtech.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.0 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_50,BIZ_TLD,CLICK_BELOW, HABEAS_SWE,HTML_50_60,HTML_LINK_CLICK_HERE,HTML_MESSAGE, MIME_HTML_ONLY,MIME_HTML_ONLY_MULTI,RCVD_IN_SORBS autolearn=ham version=2.60 X-Spam-Level: Can someone explain why HABEAS_SWE -8.0 was allowed to happen? It is a stupid idea in my opinion! I am supposed to submit my email address to this place to report spam. Sounds like the typical spammer saying they will take you off a list... And I would have to pay them money for our newsletter, why would I want to pay them? If SA will include this bogus HABEAS_SWE stuff, how about including our minus points for our domains, especially our newsletter at starrymessenger.net? I heard about efforts to have some gpg like headers in email, now that sounds like something that could work well. Can someone point me to such a place? This is cute... http://www.habeas.com/company.html Habeas began as an ingenious solution to a newly discovered problem. One evening, our chairman and founder was playing with SpamAssassin. While he loved the fact that it filtered out unwanted emails, he noticed that some valuable legitimate emails were getting mis-classified as spam and blocked from his in-box. To solve the problem, he took a little poetic license and dreamed up the Habeas haiku x-headers. Now we're a Palo Alto-based company using poetry and the law to fight spam and help your wanted email get through. Ingenious my ass! I expect them to be on fuckedcompany.com as another dot bomb. Other than this issue and the earlier RBL problem which wasn't SA's fault, I am quite pleased with how well SA is reducing our spam problem. Thanks, Chuck Griffith Observatory Star Award for excellence in promoting astronomy to the public through the World Wide Web. StarrySkies Network The Starry Messenger http://StarrySkies.comhttp://StarryMessenger.Net publishing science the weekly newsletter of articles since 1995.the StarrySkies Network Chuck Peters, Systems Administrator, Network Engineer and Linux Tech. --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Perforce Software. Perforce is the Fast Software Configuration Management System offering advanced branching capabilities and atomic changes on 50+ platforms. Free Eval! http://www.perforce.com/perforce/loadprog.html ___ Spamassassin-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/spamassassin-talk
Re: [SAtalk] forged habeus mark
Hi, On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 02:10:17 -0500 (EST) Chuck Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I received my first Habeas SWE (tm) email today and what do you know, it's V|@gra spam. There's a lot of that going around today. My copy came from an open proxy in SBC netowrk space somewhere near Tulsa, OK: Received: from adsl-65-64-51-68.dsl.tulsok.swbell.net (adsl-65-64-51-68.dsl.tulsok.swbell.net [65.64.51.68]) by chimmx05.algx.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with SMTP id [EMAIL PROTECTED] for [EMAIL PROTECTED] (ORCPT [EMAIL PROTECTED]); Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:19:30 -0600 (CST) Can someone explain why HABEAS_SWE -8.0 was allowed to happen? [snip] Pretty simple: Habeas sues people who dilute their trademark and distribute their intellectual property without permission. See http://www.habeas.com/companyPressPR.html for people they've sued into compliance. It's generally a good ham sign. It is a stupid idea in my opinion! [rant deleted] This is cute... http://www.habeas.com/company.html Habeas began as an ingenious solution to a newly discovered problem. One evening, our chairman and founder was playing with SpamAssassin. While he loved the fact that it filtered out unwanted emails, he noticed that some valuable legitimate emails were getting mis-classified as spam and blocked from his in-box. To solve the problem, he took a little poetic license and dreamed up the Habeas haiku x-headers. Now we're a Palo Alto-based company using poetry and the law to fight spam and help your wanted email get through. Ingenious my ass! I expect them to be on fuckedcompany.com as another dot bomb. Actually, Habeas has a pretty innovative strategy and it has worked fairly well for them and their customers until this week. I haven't seen any Habeas-marked spam since the company's inception, at least none in the last 8400 or so spams I have on file. Habeas' value is that they actually sue people who misuse their mark. Provided that their customers follow some basic rules on how to conduct a mass-mailing, the Habeas mark is usually a good indicator that the mail is legit (1 forged mark in 8400+ spams here or 0.012%.) Short answer: Someone's forging Habeas' mark, Habeas will track them down and sue them, the spammers will stop forging Habeas' mark, life goes on... -- Bob --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Perforce Software. Perforce is the Fast Software Configuration Management System offering advanced branching capabilities and atomic changes on 50+ platforms. Free Eval! http://www.perforce.com/perforce/loadprog.html ___ Spamassassin-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/spamassassin-talk
RE: [SAtalk] forged habeus mark
As with all all other attempts we really need to see the proof in the pudding... If the zombies start using it then who do you sue? Then we receive 8400+ per 8400+ emails. Not to sound bad but I think that Habeas has an uphill battle trying to hit the spammers. They need to get some better laws on their side that make it criminal (as opposed to civil). Then the spammers will have something to fear because then the legal issue isn't a joke. You can be fined but never truely have to pay but 10 days in jail really screws with people :) So, back to lobbying for better protections... Just my $0.02 G- Short answer: Someone's forging Habeas' mark, Habeas will track them down and sue them, the spammers will stop forging Habeas' mark, life goes on... -- Bob --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Perforce Software. Perforce is the Fast Software Configuration Management System offering advanced branching capabilities and atomic changes on 50+ platforms. Free Eval! http://www.perforce.com/perforce/loadprog.html ___ Spamassassin-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/spamassassin-talk +wzf+,o#+q~+qjRpjw*'1)inrij!jx ejka 0 r Zvf*Z,jf)+-Jjd+-. alb,y+b?+-wZ,j
Re: [SAtalk] forged habeus mark
Hi, On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:58:37 -0800 Gary Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As with all all other attempts we really need to see the proof in the pudding... If the zombies start using it then who do you sue? The same people you always sue: the people with the money. :) Then we receive 8400+ per 8400+ emails. Not to sound bad but I think that Habeas has an uphill battle trying to hit the spammers. As does everyone... Then again, Habeas' mission is not to stop spammers, it's to ensure delivery of their customers' email. They need to get some better laws on their side that make it criminal (as opposed to civil). They don't need more law, they need more lawyers. Habeas is playing a subtle legal game with intellectual property, one that's fairly successful at dissuading spammers from forging their mark. 528/55146 ham (0.957%), 1/8371 spam (0.012%). That's 80x more likely to show up in ham than spam. Still a pretty good ham sign according to my corpus. Results aren't instantaneous but as they say, the wheels of justice turn slowly but they grind exceedingly fine. Then the spammers will have something to fear because then the legal issue isn't a joke. You can be fined but never truely have to pay but 10 days in jail really screws with people :) So, back to lobbying for better protections... Just my $0.02 The spammers' lawyers will need to be paid and legal time is not cheap, especially if you are being sued by (or defended by) competent counsel. Spam is at it's core an economic crime; increase the costs to those benefitting from spamming high enough and it suddenly becomes unattractive. Comparatively, the deterrence value of jail time is laughable. No judge is going to jail a spammer when he's got a docket full of mandatory jail time drug 'offenders', the local jail system is already overcrowded, and the electorate doesn't feel like paying for more prison space. At worst, the spammer will get probation and a slap on the wrist, assuming you can find anyone willing to prosecute, and assuming you actually can prosecute under the (YOU-)CAN-SPAM Act. Civil court has lower standards of evidence and you can do much more economic damage with it. Prosecuting someone for spamming is dicey; judges don't want to deal with it because it's new territory and it's hard for most people to see it as a crime (or tort or whatever.) Judges _do_ understand well-tread areas of civil law like copyright infringement and trademark dilution and if your company was founded and run by lawyers (as was Habeas), it's a trivial matter to start the legal wheels turning to protect your mark and other IP. Remember, the point is not to sue and win, or put people in jail, or even fine them; the point is to stop their behavior, in this case forging Habeas mark. Until I see rampant abuse of the Habeas mark, I'm not going to worry about it. YMMV. :) -- Bob (who is not a lawyer but has watched arguments about Habeas on SPAM-L since Habeas' foundation several years ago and who spent quality time sharing an office with a real live lawyer who worked on real live intellectual property disputes. Tip: You can give certain lawyers horrible migraines by interchanging the words 'copyright', 'patent', and 'trademark'. It drives them utterly batty.) --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Perforce Software. Perforce is the Fast Software Configuration Management System offering advanced branching capabilities and atomic changes on 50+ platforms. Free Eval! http://www.perforce.com/perforce/loadprog.html ___ Spamassassin-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/spamassassin-talk
RE: [SAtalk] forged habeus mark
LOL... More lawyers... That's the problem :). The good spammers have them. Gary -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Bob Apthorpe Sent: Mon 1/12/2004 12:59 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: Re: [SAtalk] forged habeus mark They don't need more law, they need more lawyers. Habeas is playing a subtle legal game with intellectual property, one that's fairly successful at dissuading spammers from forging their mark. +wzf+,o#+q~+qjRpjw*'1)inrij!jx ejka 0 r Zvf*Z,jf)+-Jjd+-. alb,y+b?+-wZ,j
