Salt Water for Fire Sprinkler System
Has anyone had any experience with a fire pump taking suction from Brackish water. Can not find anything in the code that indicates this is not allowed. Are there any special issues that need to be addressed outside galvanized pipe and fittings? Any input on this issue would be greatly appreciated. Regards, http://www.firstdefensefire.com/ ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
Re: Salt Water for Fire Sprinkler System
Brian I had several systems in the Gulf where brackish water was used - I always speciified gunmetal pump casings and volutes and this seems to have been satisfactory. Stewart Kidd On 20 Aug 2009, at 14:13, Brian Harris wrote: Has anyone had any experience with a fire pump taking suction from Brackish water. Can not find anything in the code that indicates this is not allowed. Are there any special issues that need to be addressed outside galvanized pipe and fittings? Any input on this issue would be greatly appreciated. Regards, http://www.firstdefensefire.com/ ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
RE: Salt Water for Fire Sprinkler System
NFPA 20, 2007, A.5.6.4 states Water sources containing salt or other materials deleterious to the fire protection systems should be avoided. Strainer/suction screening on the intake. (NFPA 20, 2007, 5.14.8) Freeze protection for the suction line as it exits the water (unless you're using vertical turbine pumps) (NFPA 20, 2007, 5.14.6.2.2) There is a reference to pumps taking suction from brackish water in the appendix while discussing boilers, so you could take this as an inference that it is done, while not preferable, it is acceptable. NFPA 20, 2007 A.13.3(3) This method should not be used when there is any danger of contaminating a potable water supply. In situations where the fire pump is handling salt or brackish water, it might also be undesirable to make this emergency boiler feed connection. In such situations, an effort should be made to secure some other secondary boiler feed supply that will always be available. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Specialist Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 craig.pr...@ch2m.com http://www.ch2m.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brian Harris Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:13 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Salt Water for Fire Sprinkler System Has anyone had any experience with a fire pump taking suction from Brackish water. Can not find anything in the code that indicates this is not allowed. Are there any special issues that need to be addressed outside galvanized pipe and fittings? Any input on this issue would be greatly appreciated. Regards, http://www.firstdefensefire.com/ ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
Re: Salt Water for Fire Sprinkler System
Hello Brian, I would check the section of 13 for Marine Systems, Several tidbits in there. Thursday, August 20, 2009, 9:13:25 AM, you wrote: Has anyone had any experience with a fire pump taking suction from Brackish water. Can not find anything in the code that indicates this is not allowed. Are there any special issues that need to be addressed outside galvanized pipe and fittings? Any input on this issue would be greatly appreciated. Regards, http://www.firstdefensefire.com/ -- Best regards, Charles Thurstonmailto:coastalf...@sc.rr.com Coastal Fire Protection ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
Re: Salt Water for Fire Sprinkler System
Talk to the pump supliers. The last ones I did (for a high-speed ferry boat) were Monel. --Original Message-- From: Brian Harris Sender: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org ReplyTo: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Sent: Aug 20, 2009 9:13 AM Subject: Salt Water for Fire Sprinkler System Has anyone had any experience with a fire pump taking suction from Brackish water. Can not find anything in the code that indicates this is not allowed. Are there any special issues that need to be addressed outside galvanized pipe and fittings? Any input on this issue would be greatly appreciated. Regards, http://www.firstdefensefire.com/ ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
RE: Salt Water for Fire Sprinkler System
It's not just about the Pump, you need to think about the system your supplying. What we see in our PACDIV projects is everything is filled and tested using fresh (potable) water after flushing the systems. That way the only part of the system which has Brackish water sitting in it is the pump suction and a short piece of the discharge piping. Is this a vertical turbine pump? Is the intake protected from Marine growth, Mussels? Removable, cleanable screens? Thom McMahon, SET Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr P.O. Box 882136 Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brian Harris Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:13 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Salt Water for Fire Sprinkler System Has anyone had any experience with a fire pump taking suction from Brackish water. Can not find anything in the code that indicates this is not allowed. Are there any special issues that need to be addressed outside galvanized pipe and fittings? Any input on this issue would be greatly appreciated. Regards, http://www.firstdefensefire.com/ ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
Re: Salt Water for Fire Sprinkler System
Thom In many part of the world the public water mains supply water which may be technically within WHO guidelines for potability is essentially brackish. In the Arabian Gulf this is produced by blending ground water with distilled/desalted water. People use this for general household duties, flushing and irrigating but not drinking. Drinking water is supplied via tank trucks and is referred to as 'sweet water' There is no possibility of marine growth as the salinity is too low and the water is taken from aquifers which are now suffering from years of over abstraction. While it's possible to use sweet water to charge a sprinkler system or fire main after installation or servicing it is very hard to keep to this fill. Hence the primary problem being pumps - as has been suggested there are a good range of sprinkler valve sets and components which are intended for marine use - I have seen some really good kit from Tyco on production platforms in the North Sea It does seem however that it is the pumps which really suffer in such environments and I have seen some horrific impeller blade erosion in Nigeria on pumps that are less than 5 years old. Incidentally, Hong Kong has salt water fire mains in many parts of Kowloon - look for the yellow hydrants ! (The ones on the old Kai Tak airport approach have nine 64mm outlets !) Regards Stewart On 20 Aug 2009, at 16:18, Thom McMahon wrote: It's not just about the Pump, you need to think about the system your supplying. What we see in our PACDIV projects is everything is filled and tested using fresh (potable) water after flushing the systems. That way the only part of the system which has Brackish water sitting in it is the pump suction and a short piece of the discharge piping. Is this a vertical turbine pump? Is the intake protected from Marine growth, Mussels? Removable, cleanable screens? Thom McMahon, SET Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr P.O. Box 882136 Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brian Harris Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:13 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Salt Water for Fire Sprinkler System Has anyone had any experience with a fire pump taking suction from Brackish water. Can not find anything in the code that indicates this is not allowed. Are there any special issues that need to be addressed outside galvanized pipe and fittings? Any input on this issue would be greatly appreciated. Regards, http://www.firstdefensefire.com/ ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
RE: Salt Water for Fire Sprinkler System
Do I hear ROAD TRIP! Used to be Join the Navy, See the world Now it's Become a Fire Sprinkler Designer (layout Tech.) and see the world. Thom McMahon, SET Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr P.O. Box 882136 Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 f Stewart Kidd Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:31 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Salt Water for Fire Sprinkler System Incidentally, Hong Kong has salt water fire mains in many parts of Kowloon - look for the yellow hydrants ! (The ones on the old Kai Tak airport approach have nine 64mm outlets !) Regards Stewart ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
Re: Salt Water for Fire Sprinkler System
Thom HK is probably the most intensely sprinklered place on earth so lots to see ! Stewart On 20 Aug 2009, at 18:19, Thom McMahon wrote: Do I hear ROAD TRIP! Used to be Join the Navy, See the world Now it's Become a Fire Sprinkler Designer (layout Tech.) and see the world. Thom McMahon, SET Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr P.O. Box 882136 Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 f Stewart Kidd Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:31 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Salt Water for Fire Sprinkler System Incidentally, Hong Kong has salt water fire mains in many parts of Kowloon - look for the yellow hydrants ! (The ones on the old Kai Tak airport approach have nine 64mm outlets !) Regards Stewart ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
Inspection of fire doors
Does anyone know or have a standardized form for the inspection of fire doors (Vertical metal doors - Link-n-Lever) per NFPA? Thank You, Bobby Gillett Sr. Project Manager Key Fire Protection, Inc. (731) 424-0130 office (731) 424-9285 fax (731) 267-4853 cell mailto:bobby.gill...@keyfireprotection.com bobby.gill...@keyfireprotection.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
Re: Inspection of fire doors
Its in a manual I have in the office from the NFPA, I will check when I get back in and let you know. -Original Message- From: Bobby Gillett gillet...@keyfireprotection.com To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Sent: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:38:00 -0500 Subject: Inspection of fire doors Does anyone know or have a standardized form for the inspection of fire doors (Vertical metal doors - Link-n-Lever) per NFPA? Thank You, Bobby Gillett Sr. Project Manager Key Fire Protection, Inc. (731) 424-0130 office (731) 424-9285 fax (731) 267-4853 cell mailto:bobby.gill...@keyfireprotection.com bobby.gill...@keyfireprotection.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
Pockets
When is a pocket considered a pocket?? What is the depth. I say over 12. What do you say? Geoffrey H. Dyce Operations Manager/NICET IV DELTA Fire Sprinklers, Inc. A Veteran Owned Small Business Ph: 407-328-3000 ext 143 Fx: 407-575-9991 E-Mail: ghd...@delta-fire.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
RE: Pockets
Geoff, A ceiling pocket could probably be defined as any elevation increase from the rest of the ceiling, but whether it needs to be sprinklered is probably what you are wondering?? I'm sure you have looked at 8.6.7.2 which has a long list of requirements that all have to be met in order to not include sprinklers within the pocket. One of which is that it does not exceed 36 inches in depth. So, theoretically you could have a 36 in. deep pocket and not need sprinklers within. I think you would still call it a ceiling pocket though. Also, you could have a 5 ft x 5 ft x 10 in. deep pocket that was within 10 ft to another 5 ft x 5 ft x 10 in. deep pocket and they would require sprinklers within. At least that is how I see it. Is that why you are asking? Reed A. Roisum, CET Fire Protection Ulteig Engineers, Inc. 3350 38th Avenue S. Fargo, ND 58104 701.280.8580 direct 701.212.8810 cell www.ulteig.com Energy | Water | Built-Environment CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION:Emails from this company normally contain confidential and privileged material, and are for the sole use of the intended recipient. Use or distribution by an unintended recipient is prohibited, and may be a violation of law. If you believe that you received this in error, please do not read the body of this e-mail and please inform the sender that you have deleted the e-mail and any copies. Thank you. -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Geoff Dyce Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:57 PM To: Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Pockets When is a pocket considered a pocket?? What is the depth. I say over 12. What do you say? Geoffrey H. Dyce Operations Manager/NICET IV DELTA Fire Sprinklers, Inc. A Veteran Owned Small Business Ph: 407-328-3000 ext 143 Fx: 407-575-9991 E-Mail: ghd...@delta-fire.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
RE: Pockets
See 8.6.4.1.1.1 and 8.6.4.1.1.3 then move on to 8.6.7 and 8.8.7. Finally remember that by having unprotected pockets allowed by 8.6.7 and 8.8.7 you will not be able to use the area reduction for QR heads if the pockets exceed 32 SF. Read the text carefully as it say's Deflector up to 12 below ceiling. I'm assuming you've got a smooth flat non-combustible ceiling, but last question I assumed wet system and it turned out to be a dry system. Thom McMahon, SET Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr P.O. Box 882136 Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Geoff Dyce Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:57 PM To: Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Pockets When is a pocket considered a pocket?? What is the depth. I say over 12. What do you say? Geoffrey H. Dyce Operations Manager/NICET IV DELTA Fire Sprinklers, Inc. A Veteran Owned Small Business Ph: 407-328-3000 ext 143 Fx: 407-575-9991 E-Mail: ghd...@delta-fire.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
RE: Pockets
Reed, We have a flat ceiling with 5 deep hollow beams every 8-0. Our sprinklers are located on 16-0 centers located in every other beam. Since a sprinkler can be up to 12 down, I contend that these are not even considered pockets but obstructions at worst but not even obstructions because our deflectors are below the beams. Whew -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Reed Roisum Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 6:28 PM To: 'sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org' Subject: RE: Pockets Geoff, A ceiling pocket could probably be defined as any elevation increase from the rest of the ceiling, but whether it needs to be sprinklered is probably what you are wondering?? I'm sure you have looked at 8.6.7.2 which has a long list of requirements that all have to be met in order to not include sprinklers within the pocket. One of which is that it does not exceed 36 inches in depth. So, theoretically you could have a 36 in. deep pocket and not need sprinklers within. I think you would still call it a ceiling pocket though. Also, you could have a 5 ft x 5 ft x 10 in. deep pocket that was within 10 ft to another 5 ft x 5 ft x 10 in. deep pocket and they would require sprinklers within. At least that is how I see it. Is that why you are asking? Reed A. Roisum, CET Fire Protection Ulteig Engineers, Inc. 3350 38th Avenue S. Fargo, ND 58104 701.280.8580 direct 701.212.8810 cell www.ulteig.com Energy | Water | Built-Environment CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION:Emails from this company normally contain confidential and privileged material, and are for the sole use of the intended recipient. Use or distribution by an unintended recipient is prohibited, and may be a violation of law. If you believe that you received this in error, please do not read the body of this e-mail and please inform the sender that you have deleted the e-mail and any copies. Thank you. -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Geoff Dyce Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:57 PM To: Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Pockets When is a pocket considered a pocket?? What is the depth. I say over 12. What do you say? Geoffrey H. Dyce Operations Manager/NICET IV DELTA Fire Sprinklers, Inc. A Veteran Owned Small Business Ph: 407-328-3000 ext 143 Fx: 407-575-9991 E-Mail: ghd...@delta-fire.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
Be a hero
Anyone want to be a hero to the National Park Service? Just let the guy below know if you can help. Thanks -- Ed Vining, Guest, Retired 4819 John Muir Rd Martinez CA 94553 925-228-8792 I am looking for a LCD-FC73 Remote Annunciator and a ZDM-FC73 Zone expander for a FCI FC-73 Alarm Panel That would be WONDERFUL if we could locate those.used parts are fine. Thanks for all the assistance! Tony Tony Sudnick U.S. Park Ranger, Law Enforcement National Park Service Minute Man National Historical Park 174 Liberty Street Concord, MA 01742 (781) 674-1913 office (618) 444-5378 cell ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
RE: Pockets
I concur. FWIW. Reed A. Roisum, CET Fire Protection Ulteig Engineers, Inc. 3350 38th Avenue S. Fargo, ND 58104 701.280.8580 direct 701.212.8810 cell www.ulteig.com Energy | Water | Built-Environment CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION:Emails from this company normally contain confidential and privileged material, and are for the sole use of the intended recipient. Use or distribution by an unintended recipient is prohibited, and may be a violation of law. If you believe that you received this in error, please do not read the body of this e-mail and please inform the sender that you have deleted the e-mail and any copies. Thank you. -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Geoff Dyce Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 5:34 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Pockets Reed, We have a flat ceiling with 5 deep hollow beams every 8-0. Our sprinklers are located on 16-0 centers located in every other beam. Since a sprinkler can be up to 12 down, I contend that these are not even considered pockets but obstructions at worst but not even obstructions because our deflectors are below the beams. Whew -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Reed Roisum Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 6:28 PM To: 'sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org' Subject: RE: Pockets Geoff, A ceiling pocket could probably be defined as any elevation increase from the rest of the ceiling, but whether it needs to be sprinklered is probably what you are wondering?? I'm sure you have looked at 8.6.7.2 which has a long list of requirements that all have to be met in order to not include sprinklers within the pocket. One of which is that it does not exceed 36 inches in depth. So, theoretically you could have a 36 in. deep pocket and not need sprinklers within. I think you would still call it a ceiling pocket though. Also, you could have a 5 ft x 5 ft x 10 in. deep pocket that was within 10 ft to another 5 ft x 5 ft x 10 in. deep pocket and they would require sprinklers within. At least that is how I see it. Is that why you are asking? Reed A. Roisum, CET Fire Protection Ulteig Engineers, Inc. 3350 38th Avenue S. Fargo, ND 58104 701.280.8580 direct 701.212.8810 cell www.ulteig.com Energy | Water | Built-Environment CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION:Emails from this company normally contain confidential and privileged material, and are for the sole use of the intended recipient. Use or distribution by an unintended recipient is prohibited, and may be a violation of law. If you believe that you received this in error, please do not read the body of this e-mail and please inform the sender that you have deleted the e-mail and any copies. Thank you. -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Geoff Dyce Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:57 PM To: Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Pockets When is a pocket considered a pocket?? What is the depth. I say over 12. What do you say? Geoffrey H. Dyce Operations Manager/NICET IV DELTA Fire Sprinklers, Inc. A Veteran Owned Small Business Ph: 407-328-3000 ext 143 Fx: 407-575-9991 E-Mail: ghd...@delta-fire.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
Fire Pump Alternate Power
NFPA 20 (2007) Article 9.3.3 states An alternate source of power is not required where a back-up engine driven or back-up steam turbine driven fire pump is installed in accordance with this standard. Does the use of an emergency generator serving only the fire pump (no other power) qualify as a back-up engine driven fire pump? Reed A. Roisum, CET Fire Protection Ulteig Engineers, Inc. 3350 38th Avenue S. Fargo, ND 58104 701.280.8580 direct 701.212.8810 cell www.ulteig.com Energy | Water | Built-Environment CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION:Emails from this company normally contain confidential and privileged material, and are for the sole use of the intended recipient. Use or distribution by an unintended recipient is prohibited, and may be a violation of law. If you believe that you received this in error, please do not read the body of this e-mail and please inform the sender that you have deleted the e-mail and any copies. Thank you. ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
RE: Fire Pump Alternate Power
An emergency generator serving just the pump or a generator serving other/additional building needs (such as a hospital/Life Safety Code) satisfies the requirement for back up to the electric motor driven fire pump. A back up isn't necessarily required by NFPA 20 unless your power source isn't reliable or unless there are other considerations for the requirement. Have I missed your point? Bob Caputo, CFPS 657 Cantara Lane - Vista, CA 92081 Fire Life Safety America Company 3017 Vernon Rd - Richmond, VA 23228 Office: (804) 222-1381 Cell: (804) 263-1577 -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Reed Roisum Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:18 PM To: 'sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org' Subject: Fire Pump Alternate Power NFPA 20 (2007) Article 9.3.3 states An alternate source of power is not required where a back-up engine driven or back-up steam turbine driven fire pump is installed in accordance with this standard. Does the use of an emergency generator serving only the fire pump (no other power) qualify as a back-up engine driven fire pump? Reed A. Roisum, CET Fire Protection Ulteig Engineers, Inc. 3350 38th Avenue S. Fargo, ND 58104 701.280.8580 direct 701.212.8810 cell www.ulteig.com Energy | Water | Built-Environment CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION:Emails from this company normally contain confidential and privileged material, and are for the sole use of the intended recipient. Use or distribution by an unintended recipient is prohibited, and may be a violation of law. If you believe that you received this in error, please do not read the body of this e-mail and please inform the sender that you have deleted the e-mail and any copies. Thank you. ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
RE: Fire Pump Alternate Power
There is no utility connection. The generator is the only source of power. The question is, can an electric pump powered by a diesel generator be considered the normal source... I think I found that answer... NFPA 20 2007 ed. 9.2.2(2) says that On-site power production facility connection dedicated to the fire pump installation can be considered the normal source of power. And the commentary says An on-site standby or emergency generator satisfies the requirement in 9.2.2(2). Thanks Bob. Reed A. Roisum, CET Fire Protection Ulteig Engineers, Inc. 3350 38th Avenue S. Fargo, ND 58104 701.280.8580 direct 701.212.8810 cell www.ulteig.com Energy | Water | Built-Environment CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION:Emails from this company normally contain confidential and privileged material, and are for the sole use of the intended recipient. Use or distribution by an unintended recipient is prohibited, and may be a violation of law. If you believe that you received this in error, please do not read the body of this e-mail and please inform the sender that you have deleted the e-mail and any copies. Thank you. -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Bob Caputo personal Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 6:22 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Fire Pump Alternate Power An emergency generator serving just the pump or a generator serving other/additional building needs (such as a hospital/Life Safety Code) satisfies the requirement for back up to the electric motor driven fire pump. A back up isn't necessarily required by NFPA 20 unless your power source isn't reliable or unless there are other considerations for the requirement. Have I missed your point? Bob Caputo, CFPS 657 Cantara Lane - Vista, CA 92081 Fire Life Safety America Company 3017 Vernon Rd - Richmond, VA 23228 Office: (804) 222-1381 Cell: (804) 263-1577 -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Reed Roisum Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:18 PM To: 'sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org' Subject: Fire Pump Alternate Power NFPA 20 (2007) Article 9.3.3 states An alternate source of power is not required where a back-up engine driven or back-up steam turbine driven fire pump is installed in accordance with this standard. Does the use of an emergency generator serving only the fire pump (no other power) qualify as a back-up engine driven fire pump? Reed A. Roisum, CET Fire Protection Ulteig Engineers, Inc. 3350 38th Avenue S. Fargo, ND 58104 701.280.8580 direct 701.212.8810 cell www.ulteig.com Energy | Water | Built-Environment CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION:Emails from this company normally contain confidential and privileged material, and are for the sole use of the intended recipient. Use or distribution by an unintended recipient is prohibited, and may be a violation of law. If you believe that you received this in error, please do not read the body of this e-mail and please inform the sender that you have deleted the e-mail and any copies. Thank you. ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
RE: Salt Water for Fire Sprinkler System
Brian, There is nothing prohibiting this, but be prepared to pony up for the cost of some exotic metals in the flow path if you want any type of decent life out of it. Good luck, Steve Kowkabany, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Neptune Fire Protection Engineering LLC 616 Davis Street Neptune Beach, FL 32266 904-652-4200 Phone 904-212-0868 Fax -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of t...@fpdc.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:38 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Salt Water for Fire Sprinkler System Talk to the pump supliers. The last ones I did (for a high-speed ferry boat) were Monel. --Original Message-- From: Brian Harris Sender: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org ReplyTo: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Sent: Aug 20, 2009 9:13 AM Subject: Salt Water for Fire Sprinkler System Has anyone had any experience with a fire pump taking suction from Brackish water. Can not find anything in the code that indicates this is not allowed. Are there any special issues that need to be addressed outside galvanized pipe and fittings? Any input on this issue would be greatly appreciated. Regards, http://www.firstdefensefire.com/ ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.61/2312 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
RE: Fire Pump Alternate Power
John, Thanks for the NEC verbiage. I don't believe an alternate source is required if the normal source is considered reliable. (20-9.3.2) Correct? Or are you saying the generator is not a reliable primary source?? What does continually available mean (20-9.2.1)? Reed A. Roisum, CET Fire Protection Ulteig Engineers, Inc. 3350 38th Avenue S. Fargo, ND 58104 701.280.8580 direct 701.212.8810 cell www.ulteig.com Energy | Water | Built-Environment CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION:Emails from this company normally contain confidential and privileged material, and are for the sole use of the intended recipient. Use or distribution by an unintended recipient is prohibited, and may be a violation of law. If you believe that you received this in error, please do not read the body of this e-mail and please inform the sender that you have deleted the e-mail and any copies. Thank you. -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of John Drucker Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:24 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Fire Pump Alternate Power Hi Reed, Heres some more from the NEC The 2008 NEC commentary provides; 695.3 (2) For an on-site power production facility to be considered a reliable power source for an electric motor driven fire pump(s) fire protection measures must be in place to protect the source and maintain a reliable power supply. The commentary goes on to reference NFPA 850-2005. Assuming the generator qualifies as on-site power production and thus the primary source of power what's the backup source ?, assuming one is required. You only get one bite at that apple. John Drucker, CET Fire Protection Subcode Official Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector Fire Marshals Office Borough of Red Bank, NJ -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Reed Roisum Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:02 PM To: 'sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org' Subject: RE: Fire Pump Alternate Power There is no utility connection. The generator is the only source of power. The question is, can an electric pump powered by a diesel generator be considered the normal source... I think I found that answer... NFPA 20 2007 ed. 9.2.2(2) says that On-site power production facility connection dedicated to the fire pump installation can be considered the normal source of power. And the commentary says An on-site standby or emergency generator satisfies the requirement in 9.2.2(2). Thanks Bob. Reed A. Roisum, CET Fire Protection Ulteig Engineers, Inc. 3350 38th Avenue S. Fargo, ND 58104 701.280.8580 direct 701.212.8810 cell www.ulteig.com Energy | Water | Built-Environment CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION:Emails from this company normally contain confidential and privileged material, and are for the sole use of the intended recipient. Use or distribution by an unintended recipient is prohibited, and may be a violation of law. If you believe that you received this in error, please do not read the body of this e-mail and please inform the sender that you have deleted the e-mail and any copies. Thank you. -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Bob Caputo personal Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 6:22 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Fire Pump Alternate Power An emergency generator serving just the pump or a generator serving other/additional building needs (such as a hospital/Life Safety Code) satisfies the requirement for back up to the electric motor driven fire pump. A back up isn't necessarily required by NFPA 20 unless your power source isn't reliable or unless there are other considerations for the requirement. Have I missed your point? Bob Caputo, CFPS 657 Cantara Lane - Vista, CA 92081 Fire Life Safety America Company 3017 Vernon Rd - Richmond, VA 23228 Office: (804) 222-1381 Cell: (804) 263-1577 -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Reed Roisum Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:18 PM To: 'sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org' Subject: Fire Pump Alternate Power NFPA 20 (2007) Article 9.3.3 states An alternate source of power is not required where a back-up engine driven or back-up steam turbine driven fire pump is installed in accordance with this standard. Does the use of an emergency generator serving only the fire pump (no other power) qualify as a back-up engine driven fire pump? Reed A. Roisum, CET Fire Protection Ulteig Engineers, Inc. 3350 38th Avenue S. Fargo, ND 58104 701.280.8580 direct 701.212.8810 cell www.ulteig.com Energy | Water | Built-Environment CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION:Emails from this company normally contain confidential and privileged material, and are
RE: Fire Pump Alternate Power
What does continually available mean (20-9.2.1)? Energized at all times whether its needed or not, as opposed to saying on demand or as needed. Alternate sources are generally considered on demand. Keep in mind this section of the standard is addressing Normal Power. So ask the EE's if the generator runs continuously and just as importantly what happens when it needs to be serviced where does the power come from then ? Remember the guidance NFPA-20, NFPA-25 and the NEC provide to determine reliable, The source power plant has not experienced any shutdowns of longer than 4 continuous hours in the year prior No power outages have been experienced in the area of the protected facility caused by failures in the power grid that were not due to natural disasters or electric grid management failure. If its not then an alternate source is in order. Hope that helps John Drucker, CET Fire Protection Subcode Official Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector Fire Marshals Office Borough of Red Bank, NJ -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Reed Roisum Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:57 PM To: 'sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org' Subject: RE: Fire Pump Alternate Power John, Thanks for the NEC verbiage. I don't believe an alternate source is required if the normal source is considered reliable. (20-9.3.2) Correct? Or are you saying the generator is not a reliable primary source?? What does continually available mean (20-9.2.1)? Reed A. Roisum, CET Fire Protection Ulteig Engineers, Inc. 3350 38th Avenue S. Fargo, ND 58104 701.280.8580 direct 701.212.8810 cell www.ulteig.com Energy | Water | Built-Environment CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION:Emails from this company normally contain confidential and privileged material, and are for the sole use of the intended recipient. Use or distribution by an unintended recipient is prohibited, and may be a violation of law. If you believe that you received this in error, please do not read the body of this e-mail and please inform the sender that you have deleted the e-mail and any copies. Thank you. -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of John Drucker Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:24 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Fire Pump Alternate Power Hi Reed, Heres some more from the NEC The 2008 NEC commentary provides; 695.3 (2) For an on-site power production facility to be considered a reliable power source for an electric motor driven fire pump(s) fire protection measures must be in place to protect the source and maintain a reliable power supply. The commentary goes on to reference NFPA 850-2005. Assuming the generator qualifies as on-site power production and thus the primary source of power what's the backup source ?, assuming one is required. You only get one bite at that apple. John Drucker, CET Fire Protection Subcode Official Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector Fire Marshals Office Borough of Red Bank, NJ -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Reed Roisum Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:02 PM To: 'sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org' Subject: RE: Fire Pump Alternate Power There is no utility connection. The generator is the only source of power. The question is, can an electric pump powered by a diesel generator be considered the normal source... I think I found that answer... NFPA 20 2007 ed. 9.2.2(2) says that On-site power production facility connection dedicated to the fire pump installation can be considered the normal source of power. And the commentary says An on-site standby or emergency generator satisfies the requirement in 9.2.2(2). Thanks Bob. Reed A. Roisum, CET Fire Protection Ulteig Engineers, Inc. 3350 38th Avenue S. Fargo, ND 58104 701.280.8580 direct 701.212.8810 cell www.ulteig.com Energy | Water | Built-Environment CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION:Emails from this company normally contain confidential and privileged material, and are for the sole use of the intended recipient. Use or distribution by an unintended recipient is prohibited, and may be a violation of law. If you believe that you received this in error, please do not read the body of this e-mail and please inform the sender that you have deleted the e-mail and any copies. Thank you. -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Bob Caputo personal Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 6:22 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Fire Pump Alternate Power An emergency generator serving just the pump or a generator serving other/additional building needs (such as a hospital/Life Safety Code) satisfies the requirement for back up to the electric
RE: Pockets
Go ahead TRY to come up with a definition for ceiling pocket. We spent two hours (literally) in heated debate on this very issue in the Definitions Task Group at the NFPA 13 Committee Meetings. We hammered it out and came to the following definition: Ceiling Pocket. An architectural ceiling feature that consists of a bounded area of ceiling located at a higher elevation than the attached lower ceiling. Now... the trick in this discussion is to remember that the definition only happens to count if you are going to try to figure out if it is an unprotected ceiling pocket. And what we did as a Committee was to say that pockets (what's a pocket again?) less than 12 deep should not be considered unprotected ceiling pockets if the sprinklers cover all of the area below the pocket itself. (thanks to some nifty wording from some guy named Isman...) THANK YOU! THANK YOU!! you've been a beautiful audience Goodnight.. Oh wait! Four days until the world's first degree program specifically for fire sprinkler designers opens its doors Yeah baby! (Not to late to register for online classes there thanks for your indulgence Mr. Muncy...) It should be recognized that the above is my opinion as a member of the NFPA 13 Committee on Installation Criteria representing the NFSA, and has not been processed as a formal interpretation in accordance with the NFPA Regulations Governing Committee Projects and should therefore not be considered, nor relied upon, as the official position of the NFSA nor the NFPA, nor any of their technical committees. Sincerely, Cecil Bilbo Academy of Fire Sprinkler Technology Champaign, IL 845-878-4200 x138 www.sprinkleracademy.com From: ghd...@delta-fire.com To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Pockets Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:33:56 -0400 Reed, We have a flat ceiling with 5 deep hollow beams every 8-0. Our sprinklers are located on 16-0 centers located in every other beam. Since a sprinkler can be up to 12 down, I contend that these are not even considered pockets but obstructions at worst but not even obstructions because our deflectors are below the beams. Whew -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Reed Roisum Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 6:28 PM To: 'sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org' Subject: RE: Pockets Geoff, A ceiling pocket could probably be defined as any elevation increase from the rest of the ceiling, but whether it needs to be sprinklered is probably what you are wondering?? I'm sure you have looked at 8.6.7.2 which has a long list of requirements that all have to be met in order to not include sprinklers within the pocket. One of which is that it does not exceed 36 inches in depth. So, theoretically you could have a 36 in. deep pocket and not need sprinklers within. I think you would still call it a ceiling pocket though. Also, you could have a 5 ft x 5 ft x 10 in. deep pocket that was within 10 ft to another 5 ft x 5 ft x 10 in. deep pocket and they would require sprinklers within. At least that is how I see it. Is that why you are asking? Reed A. Roisum, CET Fire Protection Ulteig Engineers, Inc. 3350 38th Avenue S. Fargo, ND 58104 701.280.8580 direct 701.212.8810 cell www.ulteig.com Energy | Water | Built-Environment CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION: Emails from this company normally contain confidential and privileged material, and are for the sole use of the intended recipient. Use or distribution by an unintended recipient is prohibited, and may be a violation of law. If you believe that you received this in error, please do not read the body of this e-mail and please inform the sender that you have deleted the e-mail and any copies. Thank you. -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Geoff Dyce Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:57 PM To: Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Pockets When is a pocket considered a pocket?? What is the depth. I say over 12. What do you say? Geoffrey H. Dyce Operations Manager/NICET IV DELTA Fire Sprinklers, Inc. A Veteran Owned Small Business Ph: 407-328-3000 ext 143 Fx: 407-575-9991 E-Mail: ghd...@delta-fire.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to:
