Re: Steam Oil (was Re: sslivesteam-Digest - Number 359)
Hi Geoffrey, I have had similar problems. Since getting into G1 steamers, I have been using a stock of lighter grade steam oil (similar to 40 weight car oil). in my engines. This oil was given to me by Maxwell Hemmens, who built steam engines and boat engines. I have one of his V4s. This oil seems to work very well, with piston rods well lubed and reservoir needing replenishing after 2-3 30 minute runs, and it obviously mixes well with steam and condensates. However I was offered some of "the real stuff", at the San Jose Steam up in 1999, which was black and very thick. I tried it in my U1, but after 3 runs, the outer surfaces of the piston rods were dry, and the oil reservoir was still full, and apparently none was used. (Went in thick, came out thick, with no condensate mix). I also noticed a definate increase in piston compression before pistons reached limit of their strokes. (This is a live steam engine not a diesel). So I have concerns about the "compression resistance" transferring additional resistance back to the drive rod bearings etc.. I reverted back to my lightweight "40W" stock and all appears ok. But most recently I saw "genuine steam oil" in a local train shop now selling Ruby,s, so decided to buy some to replenish my stock. But the oil is the same as the thick black molasses previously tried. If people are actually using this oil in their Ruby,s I would be very interest in their feedback. I would not use any oil as thick as this in my car engine. It may "melt down" when mixed with steam and water, but what consistancy does it melt down to and when in the start up cycle. I fined it difficult to believe that this molasses oil is suitable for lubricating pistons, friction seals, cylinders and D valves with <001-.002"" clearances, even when diluted with steam. I respect Mike Chaney,s opinion and expertise, but I am not convinced that "thicker is necessarily better". I think we need actual wear data, not opinions. Anyone want to subject their pride and joy to long term reliability testing?. Alternatively, "What oil will you use in your new Alleghanney"?!!! May your pistons not freeze. Tony D. At 04:32 PM 2/6/01 -0800, Geoff Spenceley wrote: > > > Thanks Mike and Peter , > >Foley wrote:- > > > >> Steam oil comes in a variety of weights, just like motor oil. The lighter > >> stuff is best in small, light weight engines. > > > >True - but one also need to take account of the amount of superheat. Small > >locos, either saturated or with a "steam drier", are probably best using the > >thin stuff. "Proper" locos with serious superheat - which excludes most of > >our little kettles - should use the "molasses". > > > >Mike > > Thanks fellows. I am always wondering about steam oil-- I am currently >using oil donated from a 1/1 scale short line ( now defunct-sob!) It >works well-certainly on my 48XX, Mike. Seems to be of the same viscosity >as the oil provided by O.S Live Steam-but when I got steam oil from Coles >in CA in was very dark and heavy- molasses or treacle? I worried about >using it since I believe it is mostly for 3/4 to 1-1/2 scales. You have a >very valid point, I believe, Mike.. If the lubricator is close to where the >"unserious" super heated steam emits would that be more effective for >heavier oils? Also does the lubricator in the smoke box with the heat >help?--My Aster King's lubricator situated in the smoke box works the >best as did the Aster GER 's when I moved it to the smoke box. However, >most of my other locos seem to work well enough. > >Geoff > > >
Re: Machinist question
Bill: OK, that answers the question about how to utilize the pointed "wiggler". Thank you very much. Jim
Re: Machinist question
In a message dated 2/6/01 4:01:40 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << I looked up the "wiggler," in a number of machinist text books, all advocate its use, but never go on to tell you how to use it! >> I have one of those also, and use it regularly. I align it as straight as possible with the mill off, then start the mill ant a fairly low speed, using a small flat piece of tool steel, I hold it at the sharp end and make sure it is running true, be careful of your fingers, these can maker a cats claws look tame. When I do my layouts, I scribe two lines at right angles to each other. With the point offset from the center crossing I pick up one line by lowering the point into the scribe mark, correcting as I go with that axis handwheels. If you are too far off, change the offset a bit and pick the line again, then do the other axis, when you have both you can move to the settings, and be right on the spot. If you are not interested in quite that much accuracy pick up the line crossing, but this has a better chance of being in error. Much harder to write about than to do it. I scribe very lightly, and don't center-punch the crossing when I am striving for the highest accuracy. Be sure to always approach the line in the same direction to eliminate backlash. Hope this helps, bill
Re: Ernie Noa's contact info
The phone number is on the masthead of the magazine, I believe. So it Ernie's e-mail if I remember correctly, but here it is again: "Ernie Noa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
(Fwd) New Loco of the Month
For those of you who are following this series, here's the latest Loco of the Month. -v- --- Forwarded message follows --- Date sent: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 16:06:46 -0800 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Sidestreet Bannerworks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject:New Loco of the Month Dear Sidestreet Guest, Just a note to advise you that the latest Locomotive of the Month has been posted on our web site (http://www.sidestreetbannerworks.com). This time it is and interesting Archangel locomotive produced during the company's peak in the early 1980s -- a Lynton & Barnstaple 2-6-2T in 16mm scale for gauge 0 track. We hope you enjoy it. Regards, Sidestreet --- End of forwarded message ---
Re: Steam Oil (was Re: sslivesteam-Digest - Number 359)
> Thanks Mike and Peter , Foley wrote:- > >> Steam oil comes in a variety of weights, just like motor oil. The lighter >> stuff is best in small, light weight engines. > >True - but one also need to take account of the amount of superheat. Small >locos, either saturated or with a "steam drier", are probably best using the >thin stuff. "Proper" locos with serious superheat - which excludes most of >our little kettles - should use the "molasses". > >Mike Thanks fellows. I am always wondering about steam oil-- I am currently using oil donated from a 1/1 scale short line ( now defunct-sob!) It works well-certainly on my 48XX, Mike. Seems to be of the same viscosity as the oil provided by O.S Live Steam-but when I got steam oil from Coles in CA in was very dark and heavy- molasses or treacle? I worried about using it since I believe it is mostly for 3/4 to 1-1/2 scales. You have a very valid point, I believe, Mike.. If the lubricator is close to where the "unserious" super heated steam emits would that be more effective for heavier oils? Also does the lubricator in the smoke box with the heat help?--My Aster King's lubricator situated in the smoke box works the best as did the Aster GER 's when I moved it to the smoke box. However, most of my other locos seem to work well enough. Geoff
Re: Machinist question
- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I have the real old Starrett with the gimbal mounts for the long rod, but > there is no part number on it, same? > bill > Bill; No, they are not the same. What you have is a device for centering work in the lathe. The tool Jim has, and showed to me on Monday afternoon, is a Wiggler, to be used in a drill press or milling machine. I have also heard them refereed to, by European sorts, as a "sticky pin." The lathe centering tool uses the lever to exaggerate the apparent distance the center punch mark is offset from the lathes axis. The tool Jim has the pin revolves in a chuck, while being held at one end. The other end is free to move about in an annular motion concentric with the machine spindle. I looked up the "wiggler," in a number of machinist text books, all advocate its use, but never go on to tell you how to use it! Most every tool sale I've been to, or auction after a machinist's death, has one of these babies for sale. In every case, they are in brand new unused condition. Keith Taylor
Re: Steam Oil (was Re: sslivesteam-Digest - Number 359)
Jim Ewins (a great experimenter) ran a 5" gauge modified "Minx" loco with max. superheat (the writeup is in one of Martin Evans books) and instrumented it on test. He found that despite all the superheat, the actual cylinder metal temperature was no more than boilerwater temperature. I have used ordinary gasoline/petrol engine oil (non-emulsifying) of around 60SAE for 20+ years in Gauge 1 to 3 1/2" gauge with no regrets, Peter. -- > From: Mike Chaney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Steam Oil (was Re: sslivesteam-Digest - Number 359) > Date: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 3:31 AM > > Peter Foley wrote:- > > > Steam oil comes in a variety of weights, just like motor oil. The lighter > > stuff is best in small, light weight engines. > > True - but one also need to take account of the amount of superheat. Small > locos, either saturated or with a "steam drier", are probably best using the > thin stuff. "Proper" locos with serious superheat - which excludes most of > our little kettles - should use the "molasses". > > Mike > >
Re: Oil be very careful
On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Keith Taylor wrote: > > > > > Keith Taylor, waiting for the 16" of snow that's predicted! If you didn't get it, I got it. If you want some, and hurry, I'll save some for you. -- Bill Kaiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are three ways to do a job: good, cheap, and quick. You can have any two. A good, cheap job won't be quick. A good, quick job won't be cheap. A cheap, quick job won't be good.
Steam Oil (was Re: sslivesteam-Digest - Number 359)
Peter Foley wrote:- > Steam oil comes in a variety of weights, just like motor oil. The lighter > stuff is best in small, light weight engines. True - but one also need to take account of the amount of superheat. Small locos, either saturated or with a "steam drier", are probably best using the thin stuff. "Proper" locos with serious superheat - which excludes most of our little kettles - should use the "molasses". Mike
Ernie Noa's contact info
Anyone have Ernie Noa's phone number? Please email me offline. My new issue of Small Scale Steam Hobbyist came Monday and it was messed up. Want to get a fresh one. Thanks! Chuck Walters - President Central New York Large Scale Railway Society http://home.twcny.rr.com/cnylsrs
Re: Picayune Shay Pix
In a message dated 01-02-06 11:00:23 EST, you write: << so have the means to go and space to take someone else interested. >> >> Salty<< very interested, can I reserve a seat. Salty CC&BW
Re: Picayune Shay Pix
Hey, that was fast! Thanks, Erv! -vance- "Another day goes by in the time machine. I've been breaking my brain over what it might mean just to claim the time to turn away and make today today." --James Taylor
Re: Picayune Shay Pix
East (right) to the first exit North through Kiln East (left) on Ms 43 (about 1/2 mile past light in Kiln As you enter Picayune, the highway veers to the south (left) while the old road goes straight ahead. Go to the 2nd stop light and the engine is 1 block to the north (right) About a 20 minute drive Erv - Original Message - From: "VR Bass" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 9:59 AM Subject: Re: Picayune Shay Pix > Art et al., > > I remember an organized outing to see this loco several years ago, but didn't > make it. Do you suppose someone could post directions on the bulletin > board next year, or even spread the word about such an expedition? I always > rent a car, so have the means to go and space to take someone else > interested. > > regards, > -Vance- > > Vance Bass > FH&PB Railroad Supply Co. > 6933 Cherry Hills Loop NE > Albuquerque, NM 87111 > http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass/fhpb/
Re: Picayune Shay Pix
Art et al., I remember an organized outing to see this loco several years ago, but didn't make it. Do you suppose someone could post directions on the bulletin board next year, or even spread the word about such an expedition? I always rent a car, so have the means to go and space to take someone else interested. regards, -Vance- Vance Bass FH&PB Railroad Supply Co. 6933 Cherry Hills Loop NE Albuquerque, NM 87111 http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass/fhpb/
Re: Machinist question
Hi Bill: Perhaps it is. Mine has the chuck and four attachments. The attachments "snap" into the chuck and pivot on a ball. One attachment is the offset indicator holder to put your last word on to swing around a pin or large hole; One attachment is a straight shank with point, how is that used?; One attachment has a .250" ball, how is that used?; One attachment has a .100" disk, how is that used? Thanks for any advice you may provide. Jim
Re: Accu C-16 Live Steam Review
Paul, Thanks for the review! It sounds like you've got a beauty of an engine! Terry Griner Columbus Ohio USA
Re: Machinist question
I have the real old Starrett with the gimbal mounts for the long rod, but there is no part number on it, same? bill
Re:Machinist question
Guys: I picked up a Starrett S-828H center finder at a used tool house. I have a question about it's use. If the knowledgeable amongst us could reply off list I'd appreciate it. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you in advance. Jim
Digest #360 - lubricators
At 12:01 AM 2/6/01 -0800, you wrote: >It has a dead leg (displacement) lubricator which (snip) tees into the >steam line AFTER the superheater, which is different >from my Roundhouse where the lubricator is BEFORE the superheater. >Paul Although there is usually a reason behind it, I don't think we should go drawing conclusions or making assumptions based on what one manufacturer has done vs another. It's as likely as not to be the result of a design compromise and was that builder's best choice for appearance, expedience of manufacture, and decent operation, given the limitations of the project. In this particular case Accucraft has it right because technically oil should be introduced into the steam flow after the superheater. But I don't think on account of that a question should be raised about Roundhouse's design location or that we should now always follow that practice. Under normal running conditions the typical Ga1 loco doesn't really "superheat" steam, it only dries it a bit to mininmize slobberiness, so in the grand scheme of steam things we still technically have saturated steam so the oil can go in anywhere along the line. Although you rarely see one, there is one lubricator location which presents me with a problem and that is when it's located in front (on the boiler side) of the throttle. When a boiler is cooling down a partial vacuum can be created and if the lubricator is where it cannot be isolated from the boiler (by the throttle for instance), and is left with oil and/or oily water in it, this can be drawn into the boiler and I'd prefer not to see an oil slick in my gauge glass. Cheers, Harry
Re: Picayune Shay Pix
In a message dated 05/02/01 20:59:02 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << It was definitely not terminally boring to those in the group and everyone going to Diamondhead should make the trek. >> Bruce, I thoroughly agree - I was really cautioning as to how people might find a visit to my pix - which were taken primarily to provide info for the reconstruction of an old Steamlines Shay. A friend made an excellent replacement engine scaled down from Kozo Hiraoka's book, but the yukky original frame requires attention. Art Walker
